Please help me figure out what math to use after Singapore 6.

[PariSarah]

Background--ds finished Singapore Level 6 this summer and has been diddling around with IP and CWP over the summer, just to keep him doing math. Singapore has worked really well for us, although I fear that he'll need more actual teaching when it comes to algebra. Saxon was not a good fit for us in 1st grade, but it might be now.

Ds is entering fifth grade, age-wise, so he is a bit ahead in math. He has been suffering from Ten Year Old Boy Syndrome (typical symptoms--forgetfulness, sports-related distractability, and incidents of inexplicable stupidity), but is otherwise a good student.

We will homeschool through the end of this year, but have not. the slightest. idea. what will happen after that, so we need to keep in view the possibility of transitioning into a traditional school setting. There is a high probability of traditional high school in our future.

Here's my decision tree--jump in and help me think through at any level.

1. Stick with Singapore (NEM), switch to another program, or do something really weird? Are there problems transitioning into "regular" school from Singapore? What about the PSATs and SATs? Will NEM take us through high school math, or will we need something after that? Is it really true that boys get stupid around this age, and that there's a benefit to holding off on upper level math for a few years?

2A. Assume I stick with Singapore. Anything to watch out for with a younger-than-grade level kid? Any problems when he hits high school math? What's after NEM?
2B. Assume we decide to switch. Which program should I switch to, and why?
2C. Assume we decide to hold off on advancing for now. What would "something really weird" look like?

3B. Whichever program I hypothetically switch to--which level is best to go to after having finished Singapore 6?
3C. When do I stop "something really weird" and start doing "something really normal"? And which "something really normal" should I do?

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

I love Singapore, but I'm afraid of NEM.:D If I were in your shoes, and I will be in another year, I would consider doing a year of Lial's Basic College Math. It will be a review for him, but given at a different angle than Sinapore. He will then be ready for Algebra, and you have to decide if you want to do NEM. If not, you could do Chalkdust, Saxon with the CD's or even Teaching Textbooks.

I'm not much help, but I would buy myself sometime to make a decision and just do the Lial's BCM till I figured out which way to head.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

Oh I forgot about Fred, what about doing some Life of Fred just to add some spice to your math for awhile?

[dirty ethel rackham]

I have two children who have gone to NEM after doing Singapore all the way through. It was an adjustment for my oldest to get used to a different style, but he is doing fine. He is halfway through NEM 2 and is going into his freshman year. I am having him do the tests in Jacobs algebra, just to make sure he got all the concepts, especially using American math terms, as well as fill in any "holes" in the scope and sequence. I am very pleased with his progress.

As far as the adjustment goes, the lessons are longer, the print is smaller and it is not quite so "fun" looking. We just had to learn to take smaller bites. We stuck with it because I had heard from so many people how much more difficult the problems were and how well their kids did in college. NEM 1 and 2 do have solutions manuals. Unfortunately, 3 & 4 do not.

[Sandy in Indy]

Wow. Your ds is basically ready to start high school maths at this point (or really, really close to it). I'd be very concerned that a traditional high school would absolutely bore him to death! And you certainly don't want to stop his progress at this point. Unless you can get him in some sort of gifted/talented program, I'd be very leary of sending him to a traditional high school.

My ds went from PM6B to TT Alg. We made a short stop in NEM1, but it just wasn't the program for us. DS did very well with TT Alg 1 and 2 (scored well on the SAT test).

[PariSarah]

I'd be very concerned that a traditional high school would absolutely bore him to death!

Yes, that'll be one of the considerations we'll have to juggle. It won't be the only consideration, but it'll definitely be there.

What's TT Algebra?

[PariSarah]

NEM 1 and 2 do have solutions manuals. Unfortunately, 3 & 4 do not.

Do they have answer keys, at least? I don't mind having to figure out the odd problem on my own, but I don't want to have to do them all. :D

[Kat in GA]

I am so glad that you posted this question...because I am in the same boat...or actually my 10 year old "fifth grade" daughter will be in a few months when we wrap up Singapore.

I am scared of NEM as well. And I think I am going to outsource Math. There are a couple of teachers for homeschool students in our area. But...one of them, Derek Owens does distance learning. I have heard nothing but praise for him:

http://www.derekowens.com/0809/index.php

[Mom2GirlsTX]

Yes, that'll be one of the considerations we'll have to juggle. It won't be the only consideration, but it'll definitely be there.

What's TT Algebra?


Teaching Textbooks Algebra :001_smile:

[annabanana1992]

We are going into Foerster's Algebra after SM6.

[Sarah CB]

We had the same thing happen and had a great experience with Russian Math 6. It teaches some of the same things that PM6 covers, but it covers them in a different way. It also covers some pre-algebra (like negative numbers) concepts that are not covered in PM6. Russian Math 6 is a great thinking program and offers a different spin on math than SM does. It asks students to justify and explain concepts. I think it's a really great way to spend a few months working and playing with old concepts in new ways and with new concepts. It's a fantastic bridge for younger mathy students who are finished Singapore Math 6B and are not sure where to go next.

Dd (12) is now finished NEM 1 and is ready to start NEM2. She wasn't ready for NEM before, but Russian math 6 helped her to move to that level and she had no issues with NEM1.

www.perpendicularpress.com

[yslek]

Another idea for "something really weird" would be this:
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/

I haven't used these in my own family yet, but I've seen them recommended on the boards.

:)
Kelsy

[KAR120C]

2A. Assume I stick with Singapore. Anything to watch out for with a younger-than-grade level kid? Any problems when he hits high school math? What's after NEM?
We went from Singapore 6 to NEM with only a little bit of anything in between (Kinetic books algebra which was cute and fun, but just not Singapore, and Gelfand, which we still use as a supplement). It is harder, it is longer, and it is more boring-looking, but it's not really as scary as I had always heard.

We've done the Algebra sections of NEM 1 and NEM 2, and after tomorrow (final exam!) we're going to take a Singapore break and do a year of Statistics, with a little geometry on the side. DS is young, and my plan is to more-or-less alternate years between "normal" (Singapore) math and "weird" (extra stuff) math -- Statistics, Number Theory, Combinatorics, etc. He's not really into competition right now, but that might be another option for a young-and-mathy kid.

[emzhengjiu]

If NEM seems a bit "scary" to you as it does to me, Singapore Math is offering Discovering Mathematics now. I've been told it is designed for the same students as NEM but is a bit easier and much more appealing. I've got to make a decision soon since my daughter is almost finished with level 6 but am still leaning toward NEM.

[PariSarah]

Oh I forgot about Fred, what about doing some Life of Fred just to add some spice to your math for awhile?

nt

[PariSarah]

I'm not "scared" of NEM for myself--I loved math, right up until vectors--but a younger "look" might be good for the kiddo.

[8FillTheHeart]

Have you considered where he might attend school if you dont' homeschool next yr? I ask b/c that might influence my answer.

My young kiddo that finished Horizons 6 in 4th grade was ready for algebra in some respects (math-wise),but not others (maturity-wise with a high school textbook presentation and some of the abstract concepts......though having finish Singapore 6, the abstract parts would be more readily apparent after using bar diagrams)

Anyway, though I do not like MUS in general, the combo alg/geo classic book is a great intro to both subjects. If you did a program like that, I doubt you would have any difficulty having your dc place into algebra at a school next yr. It would be evidence of an algebra background. It has worked well as a transition into alg for us (even though I in no way see it as a thorough alg/geo program)

[nmoira]

After Primary Maths I'm planning on doing having my accelerated dd do Mathematics 6 (http://www.perpendicularpress.com/), a Russian maths textbook from Perpendicular Press, then moving her on to Algebra.

[karensk]

Background--ds finished Singapore Level 6 this summer and has been diddling around with IP and CWP over the summer, just to keep him doing math. Singapore has worked really well for us, although I fear that he'll need more actual teaching when it comes to algebra. Saxon was not a good fit for us in 1st grade, but it might be now.

Ds is entering fifth grade, age-wise, so he is a bit ahead in math. He has been suffering from Ten Year Old Boy Syndrome (typical symptoms--forgetfulness, sports-related distractability, and incidents of inexplicable stupidity), but is otherwise a good student.

We will homeschool through the end of this year, but have not. the slightest. idea. what will happen after that, so we need to keep in view the possibility of transitioning into a traditional school setting. There is a high probability of traditional high school in our future.

Here's my decision tree--jump in and help me think through at any level.

1. Stick with Singapore (NEM), switch to another program, or do something really weird? Are there problems transitioning into "regular" school from Singapore? What about the PSATs and SATs? Will NEM take us through high school math, or will we need something after that? Is it really true that boys get stupid around this age, and that there's a benefit to holding off on upper level math for a few years?

2A. Assume I stick with Singapore. Anything to watch out for with a younger-than-grade level kid? Any problems when he hits high school math? What's after NEM?
2B. Assume we decide to switch. Which program should I switch to, and why?
2C. Assume we decide to hold off on advancing for now. What would "something really weird" look like?

3B. Whichever program I hypothetically switch to--which level is best to go to after having finished Singapore 6?
3C. When do I stop "something really weird" and start doing "something really normal"? And which "something really normal" should I do?

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

A little background on us:
Ds11 has used SM (one of my favorite curricula) from the beginning. I recently realized that upon finishing 5B, he might be able to start pre-algebra (like TT's Pre-algebra). But since dh & I are considering putting our kids into a private school for 9th-12th as our first option, I decided that I didn't want ds to take Algebra I any earlier than 8th grade, so that he'd be on a fairly "normal" sequence (according to traditional school systems), taking calculus his senior year, not junior year. He's good at math, but not like super-genius-level good; so I didn't feel like this decision would be holding him back, as long as he did other interesting math-y things in the meantime.

I decided to go with Chalkdust as our main program for middle school for several reasons:
(1) IMO, ds needs to learn how to learn via lecture format by a different person (maybe learn to take notes, too). So far, he's only had the luxury of one-on-one customized math lessons from me.
(2) Though math had been my favorite and best subject during my K-12 years, I remember very little of anything from algebra through calculus. I have both NEM-1 (incl. all the solutions & teacher's guides) and a couple of Dolciani algebra texts, but am blank when I try to read the first chapters -- nothing registers! I really need someone else to teach this. The math brain cells seem to have left me.
(3) Chalkdust v. NEM: I preferred the traditional sequence of CD. Were I more comfortable and confident in my math teaching ability, I might've been fine with NEM and its different sequence (no separate year for geometry, for example). Another difficulty I had with the NEM option: no support/manuals beyond levels 1 and 2; my math isn't good enough to go without those. For awhile, I did consider just doing NEM-1 & 2, and then switching to another program after that. But it was hard for me to figure out where to place my student after NEM-2. I read the SM forums trying to figure out what parts of Algebra I were covered in which NEM, etc., and finally gave up.

My guess is that after a student finishes PM, CD might seem dry or too plain/straightforward by comparison. So we'll probably take some breaks (maybe once or twice a year?) to do something different, like RightStart's A Hands-On Geometric Approach (http://www.alabacus.com/pageView.cfm?pageID=296) and NEM-1 (though ds may have to learn this on his own).

I have a friend whose dd8 is going through Saxon 8/7 right now. She's trying to figure out what to do next. I passed along some info I remembered from a thread awhile back...maybe it was Carmen & Co. who said her younger kids who were ready for some algebra used TT and that it worked nicely for that age group, perhaps a bit better than standard algebra texts written for 9th graders (this is a vague memory and might not be exactly right). This way, the kids got an introduction into some higher level math without it being too much of a mismatch with their ages. If you want to introduce more advanced topics, maybe something like TT or MUS algebra, etc. would work well.

Since your ds is ahead by at least a year or two, one option is to use the extra time to let him explore the parts of math that we don't usually have time for -- using something like the RightStart program. I haven't purchased it yet, but it seems like something that would increase a student's understanding of math, something other than number-crunching.

Re. when to switch over from the "weird" to "normal" things:
If I had a student that far ahead, I'd be comfortable doing some "weird" stuff up through 6th or 7th grade, then start doing the more "normal" stuff in 7th or 8th in order to prepare for high school. And here's another variation: We'll use CD as our "normal" thing for 6th-8th; it'll be our main program. I plan to take breaks from CD to do the "weird" things using RS and NEM-1. From 9th grade & up, my personal preference is for the math sequence to be pretty "normal." Of course, NEM is "weird" to me; I'm sure it's not weird to lots of people, esp. those in Singapore!

HTH!

[Stacy in NJ]

This is tough. I had the same situation and can't say that I found a satisfying answer. After finishing 6b in the first semester of 5th grade, my ds spent the rest of the year on "enrichment" math. He did some of the Right Start Geo program, some workbook challenge stuff from Prufrock Press, and Singapore CWP. This year, 6th, we're calling "pre-algebra". He's working through some topics in Lials BCM that weren't covered in Sinagpore (square roots, integers) and doing TT Pre-algebra and continuing with Challenge Math. Next year we'll dive into Algebra, probably with Thinkwell or Chalkdust.

I think alot depends on the attitude and maturity of your ds. I found, while conceptually ready to move on to algebra, ds was not really ready for the wordy, thick, serious textbook. Maybe Singapore spoiled us is that respect.

Whatever choice you make will probably be just fine. Possibly, you can offer him some options and let him take the lead?

Good luck,

[LaurieinCA]

... but our son is only 8! I decided to do the Life of Fred "Fractions" and Decimals and Percents " books with him, because 1) they're fun; and 2) they fill in the pre-algebra gaps missed by SM. We are also going to work on Zaccaro's "Challenge Math" and "How to Be a Problem Solving Genius," both of which are fun books. I bought Lial's "Basic College Mathematics" but it looks like review, for the most part, and the problems are not very challenging. When the time comes for Algebra... I don't know.:confused: I have Jacob's Algebra and Life of Fred Algebra. I may also check out the Art of Problem Solving classes. - don't know much about those, but they sound intriguing. My son doesn't like video teaching programs, unless there are a lot of games involved... :001_smile:

[8FillTheHeart]

... but our son is only 8! I decided to do the Life of Fred "Fractions" and Decimals and Percents " books with him, because 1) they're fun; and 2) they fill in the pre-algebra gaps missed by SM. We are also going to work on Zaccaro's "Challenge Math" and "How to Be a Problem Solving Genius," both of which are fun books. I bought Lial's "Basic College Mathematics" but it looks like review, for the most part, and the problems are not very challenging. When the time comes for Algebra... I don't know.:confused: I have Jacob's Algebra and Life of Fred Algebra. I may also check out the Art of Problem Solving classes. - don't know much about those, but they sound intriguing. My son doesn't like video teaching programs, unless there are a lot of games involved... :001_smile:

For algebra, I really like Foersters algebras. His books are heavy word/application problems. THey have provided my kids with very solid foundations for upper college/engineering maths.

[MorningGlory]

Ds is entering fifth grade, age-wise, so he is a bit ahead in math. He has been suffering from Ten Year Old Boy Syndrome (typical symptoms--forgetfulness, sports-related distractability, and incidents of inexplicable stupidity), but is otherwise a good student.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for identifying this "syndrome"! My 10 yo ds definitely has it! And knowing that there are others out there suffering from the same thing will surely help me deal with his weirdness.

So appreciative,
Jetta

[PariSarah]

Other parents dealing with the same diagnosis, you know?

The incidents of inexplicable stupidity are particularly trying. No parent should have to go through that alone. :lol:

[oakmom]

Mathematics: A Human Endeavor by Harold Jacobs

Books by Edward Zaccaro (Challenge Math or others)

Lesson plans from www.livingmath.net

Math related books from www.prufrockpress.com

Right Start Geometry

[matroyshka]

I am going through the same thing. My two 10yos are starting 5a next week, and did LOF Fractions over the summer. I admit I'm starting to panic when Singapore PM runs out! I can share with you the various scenarios I've gone through - though I have no idea which I'll do or if I'll come up with something different! Feedback from the more experienced welcome here too!

Scenario 1
6th - Singapore through 6b
7th - Lial's BCM (or RS Geometry?)
8th - Lial's Beginning Algebra (or Foerster's?? or Chalkdust?) with videos
9th-`12th continue with whatever program picked
(I've heard very good opinions about all of these - what are the pros/cons of each??)

Scenario 2
5th - Singapore 5a/b, LOF Dec/Percents over summer
6th - Singapore 6a/b
7th - LOF Beginning Algebra w/ ? AoPS Number Theory?
8th - LOF Advanced Algebra w/ AoPS Introductory Algebra
9th - LOF Geometry w/ AoPS Geometry
10th - LOF Trig w/ AoPS Intermediate Algebra
11th - LOF Statistics w/ AoPS Probability
12th - LOF Calculus w/ ?

I actually love the look of this latter scenario, with the small problem that my older two are not math whizzes. They're not bad math students, just not math geeks, which those AoPS books are written for. Hmm, gotta make sure I'm designing a curriculum for them, not for what I would've loved (the above corresponds about with when I took those classes in hs).

I was thinking if we used LOF as the main books, picking problems or topics in the other books for reinforcment or depth might be fun? I love how clearly they're laid out. Almost makes me want to get them and work through them ahead of the kids, which is saying a lot... Most math textbooks are so busy my eyes glaze over. (I think this is why I like Singapore). If I used LOF as my main curr., I would also use the Home Instructions Guides with the extra problems.

My third dd is more mathy - could I justify getting the AoPS even if the older two don't do much with them thinking she'd use them later? :tongue_smilie:

Of course, the latter option has no video instruction, which I'd have to some extent in the first scenario. Of course if I actually did work those AoPS books ahead of them, I think I'd have enough of a clue... but that's a big IF! ;)

Of course, I can also work LOF in with Scenario 1. You know, just writing this out has helped me think through this a lot!

There could also be Scenario 3, with mostly sequential rather than concurrent doubling:

Summer after 5th - LOF Dec/Percents
6th - LOF BA
7th - LOF Geo
8th - AoPS Intro A
9th - AoPS Geo
10th - LOF Adv Alg
11th - AoPS Inter. Alg
12th - LOF Calc

It's less math, but then it's still a lot more than a lot of kids get, and should be with some real depth.

[Kennic]

Maybe look into the new series from Singapore, Discovering Mathematics. Seems to be less scary.

[dands]

What is NEM?

[nmoira]

What is NEM?Singapore New Elementary Math (http://www.singaporemath.com/Secondary_math_s/22.htm).

[Kennic]

I see it also has solutions manuals for all levels.