Deadbeat brother lives with elderly father

[PrairieMom]

My mother passed away this spring. She had Alzheimer's and Crohn's disease, and was cared for by my brother, who has lived with my parents for twelve years (long before Mom needed any care). My almost 80 yo father is a professional and still works 3 days a week. My brother, in his fifties, has never really supported himself...at least for very long. The joke in the family was that he was a "professional student" because he was in college for seven or eight years before they finally awarded him TWO bachelor's degrees. My mom, who was working then, would put money in his account so he could someday go to grad school. Sometimes he wouldn't even be enrolled, might sit in on classes. He did have a part time job in a restaurant.

Finally he entered a grad program in math and was an assistant teacher for two years, but then mysteriously quit and moved home with my parents "for the summer" in the late 80's. He stayed two years. Then he lived in the basement of a farmer and would not answer straight questions from us about "what he did" except to say he helped with chores. We knew Mom was still supporting him. When the farmer got into some weird legal trouble my brother moved in with our parents where he has been ever since.

My brother is very intelligent...was tested to have a genius IQ...but is just very different. He has NO social contacts except the occasional neighbor or grocery store clerk. NO friends. A few yrs ago my dad made an appt. for him to talk to a counselor but he called and canceled the appt.

I've tried talking to my parents (now just my dad) and I've tried talking to my brother but it's like an impenetrable wall goes up with him. I worry about what will happen to him when my father passes away or goes to a nursing home or something. My dad lost a ton of money in bad investments and doesn't have a huge estate to leave to him. My brother hasn't had any job in about twenty years, so I doubt he'd get ANY Social Security. He has no savings that I know of...maybe a small amount. He has no dental or medical insurance. He doesn't go to the dr. and my dad pays his dental bills.

:::Sigh::: This weighs so heavily on me. The last time (2001 I think) I really tried to get to the bottom of things my parents were glad to have me bring it up, but the discussion never went anywhere. They never brought it up with him, just let him keep living there.

Has anyone else been in this situation with a relative??? What did you do??? Or what happened with the relative??? I think my brother will end up coming to me, asking to live with me, but I just CANNOT do that because he drives me insane, even though I care about him. He keeps weird hours, spends his time on the computer and watching TV news channels, etc. Making messes and not cleaning up anything. It's like having another kid around. Dh and I already have seven, three who have graduatued from homeschool and four we are still homeschooling.

I welcome all comments. Sorry this got so long.

[Sharon H in IL]

Honey, I don't see that you *have* anything you need to or even ought to do here.

If your brother loses his gravy train, you have no obligation to roll out a welcome mat for him. He's a grown man, albeit an odd, quirky genius one.

Don't live in anxiety about your brother. Nope. Live your own life, and be happy with the blessings you have worked for and enjoy. Sufficient unto the day, etc.

[Danestress]

both for him and his long term situation, and for yourself.

I think I would just start by finding out exactly what your father's financial situation is. Does he own the house outright? Does he carry a life insurance policy on himself? Who is the beneficiary? I think I would suggest to your father that you are worried about the whole situation, and that you have no interest in his estate for yourself, but that it would be a huge relief to you to know that your brother will have a home in the long run.

[amy g.]

I have conflicting feelings about this.

On the one hand, I have a dead beat brother who took drank up the money his dad gave him for tuition, dropped out, and is unable to support himself. I really want to tell him to grow up and quit being a baby. I think he would be much better off if people would quit "helping" him.

On the other hand, my oldest has a high I.Q. and a pretty severe lack of social skills (Asperger's). I can honestly say that she was just born different. We were told that she may never really have an interest in romantic relationships, and we might need to support her her whole life. Like your brother, she does well with academics. It's just the rest of life that is so confusing and overwhelming.

We are trying to help her find a niche where she can be happy and productive. It is a fine and fuzzy line to walk between being a responsible parent and enabling.

In your situation, I would try to decide if your brother is just being selfish and lazy, or is the life he is living really the best he can do considering his abilities.

I feel for you. It is such a frustrating spot to be in.

[PrairieMom]

both for him and his long term situation, and for yourself.

I think I would just start by finding out exactly what your father's financial situation is. Does he own the house outright? Does he carry a life insurance policy on himself? Who is the beneficiary? I think I would suggest to your father that you are worried about the whole situation, and that you have no interest in his estate for yourself, but that it would be a huge relief to you to know that your brother will have a home in the long run.

My parents *never* discussed finances with each other...weird, I know. I am sure it MUST have come up in some conversations, but they did not talk about the big stuff. For instance, when my dad had a serious heart attack 6.5 years ago, my mom was worried, of course about him, but also about how she would figure out what to do if he died, since she didn't know much at all about his investments, etc.

I tried to talk to my dad shortly after my mom died, but he did NOT want to discuss it. I told him if something happened we would need to know at least contact information for investments, insurance, etc. He said that when my grandma (his mom) died in the 80's, he and his sister just took care of things and worked together. BUT...the thing is, my grandma really didn't have very much at all. My dad said he could "liquidate things in ten minutes with a call to his broker" and that it "wasn't a big deal". My husband said to me later, "Not if he's dead." He could die suddenly and we would have no idea. :::sigh:::

All I can do is try again...

[PrairieMom]

Honey, I don't see that you *have* anything you need to or even ought to do here.

If your brother loses his gravy train, you have no obligation to roll out a welcome mat for him. He's a grown man, albeit an odd, quirky genius one.

Don't live in anxiety about your brother. Nope. Live your own life, and be happy with the blessings you have worked for and enjoy. Sufficient unto the day, etc.

Thank you for your concern, and yes, I do need to live my own life...BUT...the situation is still worrisome and it bugs me so much that my elderly father who will be 80 next year is still supporting my bro. I do not live in constant anxiety about this; it is not disabling to me, but IS a concern.

[PrairieMom]

I have conflicting feelings about this.

On the one hand, I have a dead beat brother who took drank up the money his dad gave him for tuition, dropped out, and is unable to support himself. I really want to tell him to grow up and quit being a baby. I think he would be much better off if people would quit "helping" him.

On the other hand, my oldest has a high I.Q. and a pretty severe lack of social skills (Asperger's). I can honestly say that she was just born different. We were told that she may never really have an interest in romantic relationships, and we might need to support her her whole life. Like your brother, she does well with academics. It's just the rest of life that is so confusing and overwhelming.

We are trying to help her find a niche where she can be happy and productive. It is a fine and fuzzy line to walk between being a responsible parent and enabling.

In your situation, I would try to decide if your brother is just being selfish and lazy, or is the life he is living really the best he can do considering his abilities.

Exactly. The thing is, he did live on his own and he *has* had jobs...the restaurant job, working at a health food coop, and also for two years being an assistant teacher while he was in the math graduate program. When he was a teenager he had jobs...construction, working at a greenhouse. So it isn't that he's *never* worked. He has also had friends, just not for a long time.

I don't even know how to bring up the situation. He is not one to get angry...but he will be very uncomfortable. I sometimes wonder if he even KNOWS what is the matter.

I'm glad your daughter has parents who are doing their best to support and understand her.

Thanks for listening.

[keroro]

How long has it been since you broached the subject with your brother? Is it possible that he has thought about it as well and push come to shove could and would be more independent?

You've highlighted your brother's strengths and seem genuinely worried about him. However, some of your terminology, like the word deadbeat, almost gives me the impression that you might possibly look down on him. Any chance that comes across in your interactions with him?

[PrairieMom]

How long has it been since you broached the subject with your brother? Is it possible that he has thought about it as well and push come to shove could and would be more independent?

You've highlighted your brother's strengths and seem genuinely worried about him. However, some of your terminology, like the word deadbeat, almost gives me the impression that you might possibly look down on him. Any chance that comes across in your interactions with him?

It's been several years since I discussed it with him. For the past five years, until our mother died this spring, he was caring for her...so Dad depended on him. He was doing the best *he* could do, though his cleanliness left much to be desired, putting it VERY mildly.

I don't know if he's thought about his situation and the fact that yes, he could be more independent. It's nearly impossible to know what he's thinking. I used the word "deadbeat" because it was the best way I could think of to describe him in a brief way. Deadbeat...one who is lazy, a loafer. I do wonder whether he has some sort of personality disorder, something diagnosable, but since he refuses counseling who knows? I *do* look down on the fact that he hasn't worked for the past twenty years or so, that he has not used his mind or his education. He did take some kind of test at social services to see what kind of job he'd be good at (several yrs ago) but never went back for any kind of follow-up.

Yes, of course it's possible that it comes across to him that I look down on him. I try not to, and I do care, but it's a very frustrating situation. It's frustrating for my father as well. He doesn't know what to do. My brother won't open up to him either, and he can't bring himself to just kick him out, though he did do this years ago, in the 80's, after my brother had been there a couple of years. Now Dad is older, more tired, and has a heart condition.

I think it may come down to something drastic happening, like Dad dying suddenly, and my brother not knowing what to do, or surprising everyone by suddenly being responsible. I just don't know. I did see them 2 weeks ago and will be going back in another couple weeks (they live 3 hours from me) to help with the house. That's another whole story. I would like to try to talk to him then.

[SFP]

Your situation reminds me A LOT of the one I have with my older sister, straight down to having a father still at work at 80 and a mother with Alzheimers. She was not diagnosed (by a GP, because she thinks psychiatrists are "dumb and stupid") as bipolar until she was in her early 60s, following the deaths of our parents (in '02), despite a suicide attempt in her early 20s and a history of brief employments and living off my parents outside her decade-long marriage to a much older man (a wonderful man who died abruptly about 20 years ago). I'd pegged her as histrionic personality disorder after taking an abnormal psych class in college because I assumed if she were something MAJOR, like bipolar, the doctors would have figured that out while she was in the mental hospital.

We own our parents' house together, where she lives (our parents deeded the house to us in the 80s, retaining lifetime rights). Sometimes she says she would like to sell the house, move somewhere else. Even if I gave her my half, I can't see how she'd have enough to live on, since all the money she has is social security, which pays for her food and the meds she rarely takes correctly, and a bit an aunt left her when she died a few years back--I can never get a straight answer out of her about how much she has, but she had to get an attorney earlier this year to get her out of a default judgement that had been brought against her when she ignored a lawsuit--pitched all legal papers straight into the trashcan--brought against her because of a thousand or so messages she'd posted on a local message board. (And once the judgement was dropped, and she'd run her retraction on the board for a month, she started posting in the same vein that had gotten her into trouble the first time!)

We'd been paying her utility bills for years, but are currently making her pay them due to some lies and emotional manipulation she put us through back in the spring--and the fact that she said if she got sued again my husband and I could pay her legal bills. (Uh, no.) I assume she will develop Alzheimers earlier than our mother did and I will be expected to make decisions surrounding her care--although at the moment all I'm legally in a position to do is contact her doctor and tell him when I suspect she's off her meds-- and will then need to empty the house and basement of the tremendous amount of junk she's bought at yard and estate sales to resell on ebay (fat chance) so that the property can be sold to pay for her care.

Your brother, on the other hand, reminds me of a good friend's older brother--the brilliant genius who won the scholarship to the big name private university who wound up working in fast food in NYC after college and coming home to small town NC to keep the dental appointments made by his mom at the dentist's office he'd always gone to. He moved back to NC to live in the family homeplace after their mother died, worked menial jobs unworthy of his genius potential, and it wasn't until my friend forced him to the doctor (one more day and he'd've died, the doctor said) and they found out he had diabetes, that the doctor also said the words "obsessive compulsive disorder."

What would his life have been like if he'd been meds for OCD all his life? What would my sister's have been like if she'd received a better diagnosis in her 20s than that of being "spoiled and immature"? It's all very well and good to be on the outside saying any particular person should be responsible for his or herself, but how can they make the decisions a more normal person would make when they've never seen life from that perspective, when they can't see it from that perspective?

There just aren't any answers in situations like these.

(I apologize for incoherencies in the above. I'm just coming off a major migraine that Imitrex couldn't touch and I haven't yet regained verbal equilibrium.)

[kalanamak]

My dad said he could "liquidate things in ten minutes with a call to his broker" and that it "wasn't a big deal". My husband said to me later, "Not if he's dead." He could die suddenly and we would have no idea. :::sigh:::

All I can do is try again...

I'd start with trying to find out what dad's will says, and what his assets are. If you think your dad would not discuss this with you, before I muddied the waters, I'd try a sneakier route: I'd ask your dad for advice on doing YOUR will (even if you have one already). Gosh, should I do a trust? Who as guardian? etc. etc. Treat your dad as the wise old patriarch.

That might get him thinking.

Does your dad have an attorney? Would you be brave enough to go see him/her and speak your concerns? Or anyone else your dad really trusts, like a sib or lifetime friend?

The description of your brother argues for a mental problem of some sort. If there are no delusions, paranoia, drinking/drugging or psychosis.....count your blessings.

[Ashleen]

My brother is very intelligent...was tested to have a genius IQ...but is just very different.

One of my psych teachers told me that when Mensa started, the government was looking for citizens with the highest I.Q.s to work in research jobs, and what they found was that the people with the highest I.Q.s were not the best workers. They found people living under bridges who tested as geniuses. Sad but true.

My aunt sort of floated around after her parents died. Her brothers would give her things like an old car to drive for awhile or groceries. Never cash because it slips through her fingers. She was raising three sons and other family members would buy them shoes and school clothes. Unfortunately, there is no happy ending where she suddenly got responsible. Her kids grew up and she lives with one of them now. Very sad.

Sorry that's sort of depressing and not very helpful. Maybe a local community college has some sort of life classes he could take. Time management, money management, etc. Or he could read some of the books by Barbara Sher which have step-by-step ways to achieve what you want to achieve (her books have been very helpful to me because I'm always living in my dream world and need a lot of help to turn my ideas into goals and doable steps -- I need more help in this area than anyone I know).

[dragons in the flower bed]

I don't think you have to do anything about it, really, except come to terms with your feelings, and be prepared to give a firm, "No," to your brother when your father dies. Chances are, when he has to, he'll put his IQ into action and find a way to survive.