Singapore 4A & multiplication facts

[Pencil Pusher]

I've heard from someone here :confused: that one should not try to start S4A w/out knowing the mult table. So far, we've been treating facts & concepts separately. Ds will do drill for a few min in the AM but continue to advance in his workbooks whether he knows his facts or not.

We've been using Math Shark--a little hand-held computer drill thingie. I like it, & ds has advanced in his facts w/ it, but it can become...well, sort-of routine. He can get to where he does it mindlessly & ends up memorizing the order of the answers, which is the same unless you change levels or turn the thing off.

Anyway, we've got other gimmicky things to make learning facts fun, too, but at this point I feel like they're all becoming distractions from the memorization itself. I've been just verbally drilling him the last few days, & although I *thought* we were gaining ground, last night he just blanked. On everything. :glare:

I've about come to the conclusion that we're going too slow. You know how it's harder to memorize your vocab at the beginning of a language because there's no pressure? Then toward the end, there's too much, lol, but that's not the point. I've been trying to teach him a family per day, but now I'm thinking we should just learn the table today & review the rest of the week. He needs pressure. I think.

I have him copying the facts right now. I told him that's all we're going to do today (I said it nicely). But when he knows them, he can have the rest of the day off, & we'll have a "party" tonight.

I explained gently, & it hasn't been a battle so far or anything, but...well, he *is* sitting there spacing a little. Not whining or pouting, though. And when I refocused him, his pencil did immediately break. Hmm..

So what do you think? Move on to 4A & let the facts come as they will? Stop until he's learned the facts? Force them on him ASAP? Repeat 3A & B using the extra practice book util he knows his facts? (The last option would kil him, but I am saving the threat of it jic.)

Fwiw, math is his best & favorite subject. He taught himself to add & multiply at ridiculously young ages. And that means that stopping to learn facts is pretty painful for him. As far as memorization goes, he's memorized huge chunks of poetry, scripture, etc. from the age of 2, so there's not any kind of mental block to that or anything. It's just not fun. (And I concur!!)

WWYD?

[Jen3boys]

I would go on to SM4A, but also keep drilling the math facts. We've just started 4A, and one of my sons needs to do the same thing, so he's using the Flashmaster and doing lots of oral drills with me outside of our regular math time. (And that's easy to do while holding a baby!)

[Kate in Arabia]

Well, my ds 10 is "ok" on his multiplication facts but not super strong -- he still has to think for a minute on a few. It was worse last year, and then we started Singapore 4A. I actually feel that having to use the facts a lot in his daily lessons helped him master what he has mastered. We've done the drills and watched/listened to Schoolhouse Rock, but I don't think it became "necessary" in his mind until he had a regular need to use them fluently, kwim?

So, despite the fact that I heard complaints incessantly from my fil this summer that ds doesn't have his multiplication facts to 12 memorized perfectly :glare: , I would do it the same way again. Drill some, use a lot, and keep moving forward.

We should be finishing 4A and starting 4B in the coming weeks.

btw, is there something wrong with my poor 10 yr old that he's in 4A and everyone else is 7 or 8, lol?

jmo

[KarenC]

And we continue to work on math facts. If they aren't having a problem with the concept, I won't hold them back. I may also give them extra math facts as "homework".

Karen

[Homeschooling6]

btw, is there something wrong with my poor 10 yr old that he's in 4A and everyone else is 7 or 8, lol?

jmo

My dd is going to be 9 and she is only in 2B, but I did have her finish the Intensive and Challenging Word Problems.

[elegantlion]

We are in 4a and ds does not have multiplication facts memorized. He is dealing with some possibly dyslexic issues so I am not pushing it right now. He has a placemat with the facts on them and is allowed to use that if he gets too frustrated.

We drill within the work. Right now he is on exercise 19 and working with fractions. I make him think through the multiplication before he is allowed to look at his "cheat sheet". I also try to reference back to other problems which the same answers.

I personally wouldn't hold them back because they weren't memorized, but would continue to drill.

[nmoira]

So what do you think? Move on to 4A & let the facts come as they will? Stop until he's learned the facts? Force them on him ASAP? Repeat 3A & B using the extra practice book util he knows his facts? (The last option would kil him, but I am saving the threat of it jic.)I'd continue to drill facts separately, and also throughout the day in real-life context, and move ahead. However, you might want to give him a month or so off to try something different: I know a couple people with strongly math oriented children who gave them a multiplication table to use at will. Instead of having him drill conventionally, you could give him real problems (e.g. 2 digits by 1 digit) and let him use the table. During this period, I'd use it for regular math as well.

[Pencil Pusher]

Thank you so much, ladies! I have one happy boy this AM, & he thinks y'all rock! (I agree.) :001_smile:

[Linda...inOwasso]

My dd turned 8 a few days ago and she just started 3a. No, Kate.. I don't think your ds is behind, I think Aubrey's son is way ahead! Clearly, he "gets" math and the concepts come easily to him which is GREAT!

As for math facts, I too treat them separately than concepts. I am BIG on having your facts down cold! My dd8 does 20 min. of math drill daily. She does addition, subtraction, multiplication & division fact worksheets consisting of 100 problems each.

My reasoning is this: most math problems require you know your facts (or at least be able to figure them out). If the child knows them, they will be able to complete their math assignment much faster than if they have to think about a simple math fact to solve the problem.

My just turned 5 year old dd even does 15 minutes of math fact drill daily. She does an addition worksheet with 100 facts, a sheet of fact families, fills in a 100 chart, etc... I just believe it's so important to know the facts.

[KarenNC]

Timez Attack is a pretty cool free downloadable video game that adjusts to the level of the child as she plays, covers all the times tables.

www.bigbrainz.com

[Mandamom]

>>>>I've been just verbally drilling him the last few days,>>>>

Make sure that you continue to use written drills also. When we do math in our real life it is more realistic that we SEE the math multiplication problem and we need to recognize it VISUALLY quickly.

Verbal drilling is good but make sure you keep up written drills so that he has a visual memory of the math problem when he sees it on his math assignments.

[Pencil Pusher]

My dd turned 8 a few days ago and she just started 3a. No, Kate.. I don't think your ds is behind, I think Aubrey's son is way ahead! Clearly, he "gets" math and the concepts come easily to him which is GREAT!

As for math facts, I too treat them separately than concepts. I am BIG on having your facts down cold! My dd8 does 20 min. of math drill daily. She does addition, subtraction, multiplication & division fact worksheets consisting of 100 problems each.

My reasoning is this: most math problems require you know your facts (or at least be able to figure them out). If the child knows them, they will be able to complete their math assignment much faster than if they have to think about a simple math fact to solve the problem.

My just turned 5 year old dd even does 15 minutes of math fact drill daily. She does an addition worksheet with 100 facts, a sheet of fact families, fills in a 100 chart, etc... I just believe it's so important to know the facts.

I've been looking for drill sheets like this--the kind I remember from when I was a kid. Seems simple enough, but I can't find them *anywhere*! :confused:

[Pencil Pusher]

No, Kate.. I don't think your ds is behind, I think Aubrey's son is way ahead!

:iagree: Sorry, I'm balancing the keyboard underneath baby while nursing...I meant to say something earlier.

First, ds will be 8 right after Christmas, so he's an old 7. Second, he *is* ahead in math, but...since I'm hs'ing, that feels a little hard to actually measure. I mean, I'm giving him the 4A books, but...does he actually know his stuff that well? Maybe I'm holding his hand too much? Etc.

My point is just...his "level" makes me nervous. I don't know exactly how to tell if it's "real." Kwim? And...I try not to ask too many math q's because I'm afraid his "level" will come across as either bragging or pushing (him).

And finally...although I'm an English major...I *love* teaching math. I don't know what's wrong w/ me, lol. I think I just like Singapore that much. We pretty much never skip math because of that. We skip everything else pretty regularly, lol. I just want to make sure I give a fair picture. :001_smile:

[Linda...inOwasso]

I know exactly what you mean Aubrey. I am admittedly paranoid when it comes to math because it's so important and it was not my strongest subject! My dd8 does 2 separate periods of math each day:

1) Math mania: (my name for it) Where they spend 20 minutes completing their math fact drill sheets.
2) Math: 1 lesson in Singapore, 1 lesson in Horizons & 3 challenging word problems per day

There are a million ways to practice math facts from free worksheets on-line to flashcards, but my absolute favorites are the Susan C. Anthony worksheets. They are so well laid out. Each sheet contains 100 problems and progresses perfectly. For addition, the student begins with +1's. Once they've received a 100% three times in a row in under 3 minutes, they move on to +2's. Then they must master +0 to 2, etc. The sheets are so easy to grade and it makes administering math drills so easy for me.

She has books for addition, subtraction, multiplication & division. They range in price from $12 - $14 each. Her website is: http://www.susancanthony.com/ if you're interested in checking them out. I think they're well worth it.

My little angels balked at first, but now daily "math mania" is like brushing your teeth in our house. Like it or not, it's something you do every day.

Best of luck in finding what works for you!! :)

[kiana]

I've been looking for drill sheets like this--the kind I remember from when I was a kid. Seems simple enough, but I can't find them *anywhere*! :confused:

Is this the sort of thing you're looking for? It's a free, customizable random worksheet generator. You can also have it automatically create an answer sheet.

http://www.superkids.com/aweb/tools/math/

[siloam]

My oldest is finishing up 4A and is doing fine. She has about half her tables memorized, i.e. she can get up to 5 with all of them. If she needs to go higher, say 8x7 she sill just think 4x7=28, so 28+28=56. Yes it would be faster if she had them memorized, but it isn't the end of the world that she doesn't.

We do work on them daily, orally. Only a couple of them, not all of them.

Heather

[Darcy from LWM3B]

I have them start memorizing a 12 x 12 table in 1b.

Back then it's only "skip counting" but the results are the same.

My 6 yo can fill out a 12x12 table (now) very quickly. but he did one 3 times a week starting back in January. He is now in 2a, doesn't realize it's the timez tables he knows. For some, he still adds on to the number before it (8s for example) but I'm totally okay with it.

When my 8 yo hit a wall with long division in 3a, we took 7 weeks off and played a game using triangle cards that are factors. it's also a good way to cement those facts.

We have Timez Attack, too. I think it's yuck, my boys LOVE it. Whatever works.

But my main ammo is going to Schoolhouse Tech using their free worksheet maker program and printing out a blank 12x12 multiplication grid.

And NO - it's not odd that he's his age and about to start 4a. It's a great place to be. I have a 5 yo who doesn't know his letters or numbers. I have a 6 yo who has been able to fill out a 12x12 grid since right after his 6th birthday. Kids all have their strengths and weaknesses - you're a good mom to go at his pace but to push the envelope. :)

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think you're doing the right thing by moving on to 4A and continuing to drill the facts. However, I agree with Mandamom that, while oral can be good, he also needs to see them written. I would consider using flash cards and/or timed quizzes for him.


I've been just verbally drilling him the last few days, & although I *thought* we were gaining ground, last night he just blanked. On everything. :glare:
In my experience, when this happens, I need to back off. This usually means that my child is either too exhausted or too stressed to continue. I've had times where I've just stopped something and picked it back up the next day and found that he really did know the material. I found the same thing to be work when I taught in public schools.


Fwiw, math is his best & favorite subject. He taught himself to add & multiply at ridiculously young ages. And that means that stopping to learn facts is pretty painful for him.
I know a lot of people won't agree with me on this, but if I had it to do over again, I would get my son to memorize his multiplication tables before teaching him what they even mean. Then he would have them in his head and would later have that "Aha" moment when he realized how the answers were derived. However, as it stands, even though he knows his multiplication tables, sometimes out of habit he'll start taking the time to figure up the answer to a simple multiplication problem instead of just giving the answer. I don't think he'd do that if he had memorized his multiplication tables first.

[Julie in Monterey]

Peggy Kaye has written a series of fun books that help a bunch with carryover or solidification of skills such as math facts. Her book, Games for Math has some fun ideas that take the place of mind numbing drills. Most public libraries seem to have this book. It might be worth a check out.


Julie in Monterey

[hose]

Try this link. Their 5 min. drills are great and you can create a new order for each day.

The Math Worksheet Site.com (http://themathworksheetsite.com/)