SWB will hate me.....but...

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

Do you find that you have moved away, even far away from WTM? I have in my choices, but not in theory. What would you "label" or consider yourself doing now-:confused: I just think my kids work better under the CM style- and more under "MY" style-

[Wendy in ME]

We have moved way over toward an LCC approach with the exception of keeping the 4yr world history. We don't even do formal grammar.

[MelissaM]

That's as far away as one can get, eh? ;)

Seriously, I will be hsing again beginning in July and we will not be going the WTM way. Other than studying history in a chronological fashion I don't think anything that I will be using is considered classical. I know for sure my philosophy of education isn't classical.

I guess I don't know why I even hang out on these boards.

[Closeacademy]

I call my style "Classicaly Waldorf." We use a mix of classical, Waldorf, Montessori and Charlotte Mason methods and ideas.

Charlotte Mason brings us short intense lessons perfect for the wiggly child and a search for good books that speak to us as Living Books.

Waldorf brings us art and creativity which is perfect for the VSL and stories for my child who learns that way.

Montessori brings manipulatives for hands-on learning.

And Classical with inspiration from TWTM and LCC brings us Latin, grammar and good solid mathematics study.

Most people would say we are eclectic.:)

[Snickerdoodle]

I never thought any one homeschooling method was to be followed precisely to the letter. I have gotten great ideas from many of the educational camps and we definitely take what we like and leave the rest.

I guess I don't know why I even hang out on these boards.

I hang out for the ideas. There are so many resources out there nowadays, it's nice to see how they are working for other people.

Sometimes I wonder how did people ever hs before the internet? :D

[MelissaMinNC]

Sometimes I wonder how did people ever hs before the internet?

I do too!

I don't know yet exactly where I fall - somewhere between classical and Charlotte Mason and....everywhere else, I guess. But I'm going to keep hanging out here, if that's all right with everyone. ;) I need this board, LOL.

:)
Melissa

[Laura Corin]

WTM aspects:
Chronological history; Latin; memorisation; (some) copywork; some thought about grammar/logic/rhetoric stages

Anti-WTM areas:
Low on grammar; creative writing fairly early; stress on PE; short days; waiting to read classics rather than using children's versions; almost no WTM-recommended curricula.

Laura

[MelissaM]

just kidding. These boards are such a wealth of information that I can't imagine not visiting.

[Night Elf]

I'm a classical education wannabe. :p After years of homeschooling, we've learned our groove is a complete boxed program. I have one child doing K12 and it's going great. We know exactly what to do each day and it gets done, mostly. The other child is doing Sonlight with a few things thrown in. To be honest, the SL stuff gets done everyday because we have a checklist. The rest is willy nilly and it's driving me nuts. The bottom line is that if it is a schedule that someone else made up, we follow it fairly closely. If it's a scheule I've made up, it just doesn't seem to happen.

So, if someone were to create a complete secular classical ed in a box that included all subjects, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Oh man, I'd be all over that. :)

[Kelli in TN]

I have tweaked it, a lot. I never did science the WTM way, opting instead for a free-standing science program every year. We are very strong in grammar here, and in my heart I want for us to be strong in composition, but we struggle mightily. Sometimes I look at Ambleside and think about it, but my love of the four year chronological history pulls me back like a giant bungee cord.

We are Latin failures and logic stumped me. (I blame MY appalling lack of an educational foundation for my inability to make it past about the third chapter of Introductory Logic)

I think WTM ruined me for life.:D I know the education I want for my kids, thus making all but one school in my community insufficient (and that school is not in the budget), and yet I lack the depth and breadth of learning to implement it.

I need a really smart person to come live in my house and implement my game plan. Anyone looking for a life change? I am a pretty good cook, if that helps.

[KristineIN]

I'm a classical education wannabe. :p :)



I'm a wannabe also. I just love getting ideas and hearing how everyone else does things, but I NO WAY, follow TWTM strictly. I am more eclectic in our homeschool and we take things from all over. I really like the CM method also.

Kristine

[Testimony]

Oh my goodness, yes. I love the Well Trained Mind boards. These forums are a wealth of information, but I have probably gone cooky in my homeschooling. I am classical because I teach my children Latin and/or Greek. That's what makes you classical (that is what I have read). My son loves Story of the World so much. He told me that I can never sell this series and he wants to teach it to his children. So, Peace Hill Press will always get my business, but I am following Ambleside Online because it is a free curriculum and it has rich literature. The approach of short lessons and more character training is what is enticing to me. Charlotte Mason approach is to teach character before anything else is taught.

I must confess that I was truly turned off from The Well Trained Mind after I joined an academic co-op two years ago. They were so obsessed with academics. They wanted academics incessantly with the exception of lunch and recess. Those periods encompassed 20 minutes. Now in my state where I live, there are so many academic co-ops that have sprouted. It is almost as if there is one in every county. Many are based upon the Well Trained Mind. People are no longer assessing their child's learning style and picking a curriculum based upon their child's abilities. They are going to a co-op and letting the co-op decide their program.

I wanted to say though that I know that the Well Trained Mind is a good approach to homeschooling. It helps give you a good direction as to what books to get in order to teach your child. These forums have been a blessing to me in my homeschool life.


Sorry this is long. Please forgive me.

[8FillTheHeart]

I guess I don't know why I even hang out on these boards.


I don't follow any style/curricula/path! I don't do cyclical history, I am not currently teaching Latin, and I am very relaxed in the younger yrs. :)

You are definitely not alone. I hang out on these boards b/c the women here are serious about educating their children and research curricula, methods, options. I don't know homeschoolers in real life that have that educational philosophy! That is what I love about the WTM boards and WTM in general!!! :)

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

As my oldest (my guinea pig) nears 4th grade in the fall, I am seeing where WTM recommendation have worked really well -- things I definitely want to continue with my next-in-line guinea pig (he'll officially be K in the fall). And, I can see where things we've done a la WTM haven't been as natural or won't work for ds2.

SWB's recommendations for early elementary writing (copywork, narration, etc.) have been spot on for us (...and for me, too. I always hated the emphasis on 'creative writing' in the elementary years. Too contrived).

I love the 4 year history rotations from TWTM. There are some fun units we've completed in those grades that I wouldn't have wanted to miss for the world -- Egypt, Rome, Greece. Renaissance. Middle Ages.

We've always used Sonlight's Read Aloud list to cover our bases for good children's literature. RAs have always been a huge hit in in our family.

We're now using Sonlight Core 3 to make my life easier and to spend some time just in US history. I think ds will benefit from seeing the Big World Picture better during his logic and rhetoric years.

[Scarlett]

I did pre-K and K based on SWBs recommendations. I absolutely love the History program. I love the stages concept too. Beginning with 1st grade though we signed ds up for a VA and they use K12 which honestly has been fine. SWB helped develop their history program. I went that route because dh was/is not 100% behind hs'ling and he really liked the VA idea better. The free part is nice as well

I like K12 well enough though that I could see myself just buyiing the box set if I was not doing the VA. I too would LOVE a boxed TWTM curriculum.

[Shari]

but I cannot even begin to consider myself a Classical homeschooler. I have never agreed philosophically with the rigor of study for the K-4 crowd, or the teaching of classical languages, especially at 2nd and 3rd grade. I have seen many, many people over the years, and on these boards in particular, start out absolutely gung-ho about WTM, only to crash and burn and feel like failures when they can't make it work in the real world. What's worse than watching your 6yo have a meltdown over Achilles??

I love the chronological approach to history, which is what convinced me to try WTM in the first place. I loved the *idea* of WTM, and the Classical Scholar I would produce as a result of the program. How all my family would finally shut up and be impressed when I homeschooled a National Merit Scholar! Unfortunately, that's just not real. It is the person I wish I was, and the type of education I would like to have had, but to what end? I am not the perfect scholar and neither are my dc, and no amount of Latin and philosophy will change that. :D

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

Last summer, I gathered my materials (WTM recommendations) to begin our first grade year. They arrived, I looked through them, even implemented a few for a bit (FLL, OPG, SWO, etc). I *hated* FLL! :eek: lol

Anyway as I looked at the history, science for 1st and 2nd grade...there was just no way, I would read most of the rec's to my very young children. (that's just *me*)

So I ditched it all and resold it. As I said I did not like FLL, DS hated OPG, and he was completely not no where near ready for spelling (still isn't).

I do like the 4 year rotations, the notebooking that WTM teaches you to do and so many of the other practical ideas and guidance found in the book! I refer to it often.

So I take the things I like and apply them...but do not use the curriculum recommended. I just finished reading LCC, and love the simpleness and deep focus on just the important things it uses....but again, we just don't agree with the focus on ancient 'culture' or the recommended books for our young children. But I do agree with making Latin a huge focus and we will!

So, like I always do...I moved back to the framework and principles found in Teaching the Trivium. (we DO use math before age 10 though) They really, really resonate with me, speaks to my heart, I guess.

So I follow their basic framework, plugging in the books from Ambleside. I would, however, like to sit me down and try to re-arrange the AO books into a 4 year cycle (history and science) because I really love that about WTM. :D

So, in a nutshell, we use most of the AO curriculum, in a classical manner, using TTT as our main 'guide'...desiring to use 4 yr cycles, and will try for that next year! Got that? ;) We will begin the actual AO Yr 1 books this fall, I wanted to do an Ancients study first per WTM, so we are reading Our Young Folks Josephus as our ancients 'spine'.

[Mama Lynx]

We've kept TWTM history, and Susan's ideas about narration and writing for the early years. But we've put a higher importance on Latin; we use very different math and writing curricula; and we will focus more on classical history and literature. Our grammar is part of our writing program, and is reinforced by Latin.

We may well end up doing TWTM literature as well, using Susan's model for a Great Books curriculum in high school.

[Kelli in TN]

So I follow their basic framework, plugging in the books from Ambleside. I would, however, like to sit me down and try to re-arrange the AO books into a 4 year cycle (history and science) because I really love that about WTM. :D




And when, in your spare time that I am sure you have oodles of, you do indeed arrange the AO books into a neat and tidy 4 year cycle, you will come post it here, right? Because I visit AO at least once a week and think "Hmmm, maybe?" but I always come back to the 4 year cycle.:)

[Nan in Mass]

I like TWTM because it is half way between unschooling and school. It lays out which skills need to be specifically taught and which can be covered in a looser, child-let, interest-led way. This makes it efficient. I find the stages, not necessarily the ages but the stages, accurate for my children. Yes, I've modified TWTM recommendations to fit our family, but (ok, I really am shouting now so I'm going to use capitals)

I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. They didn't mean us to follow their recommendations exactly and do everything on their list and not change anything. They spend a lot of time in the book explaining that we are supposed to use our brains and our hearts and do what is best for our own particular families. TWTM even has suggestions for school-in-a-box and correspondence schools. If you guys have used TWTM as a springboard for homeschooling, then you are WTMers! I'm sure the last thing SWB and JW would want is for you to follow their suggestions no-brained-ly.

-Nan

[Linda in NM]

I like the focus on history from WTM, copywork, Latin.

However, we did not really bother with formal grammar until 6th grade (did some computer programs and workbooks, read a lot); stress on PE, too, short days and short lessons and "real" versions of classics.

WTM aspects:
Chronological history; Latin; memorisation; (some) copywork; some thought about grammar/logic/rhetoric stages

Anti-WTM areas:
Low on grammar; creative writing fairly early; stress on PE; short days; waiting to read classics rather than using children's versions; almost no WTM-recommended curricula.

Laura

[8FillTheHeart]

I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. .

-Nan

Ditto!! I think SWB has given families an excellent framework for solid academics w/o depriving them of flexibility. :) You are right on there!!!

[Linda in NM]

Oh my goodness, yes. I love the Well Trained Mind boards. These forums are a wealth of information, .

We're not censured by the "board police" if we deviate from the WTM philosophy, and we can explore and investigate and find the best fit. Thank you, Peace Hill people!

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

And when, in your spare time that I am sure you have oodles of, you do indeed arrange the AO books into a neat and tidy 4 year cycle, you will come post it here, right?

I'll do my best! :D

[Michelle in GA]

I followed WTM very closely grades 1-8. However, I have moved to a more traditional path for highschool. We are not centering our highschool study around Great Books. I have also opted to use science textbooks(BJU). We have also dropped Latin for Spanish. As for history, we are still on a chronological schedule for two years(World History Part 1&2), but I will reserve a year for American history, and year for economics and government.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

:D

Seriously, folks. Of COURSE you're supposed to adapt it. Of course you're supposed to take what you find valuable and then adjust for your family. Why else are you home schooling?

Listen, even within my own family, all four kids are pursuing somewhat different academic and vocational paths, and if someone were going to get really picky, I could probably rank them in order from "more classical" (oldest son) to "least classical" (that would be Ben). But that's why I don't plop them all into the nearest classical school, which would probably give them more stringent overall academic training than I can all by myself. I don't WANT them to get a one-model-fits-all classical education. I want each one of them to get a tailored, hand-made neoclassical education.

I've been saying for year now that arguing about which model is "more" or "less" classical is totally pointless. You should be thinking: Which model will meet my goals for my family, and within my family, for each individual child?

Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.

I think that the paths we outline in TWTM have helped many parents design a journey towards that goal. And I have to say that most of the nasty attacks I've seen on us and on the book, over the past ten years, come from people who have totally misunderstood our intention: To equip you to get YOURSELF there. We're trying to strengthen and equip, not oppress.

So kudos to all of you who are trying to reach that goal. You'll make wrong moves, back up, try again, hit dead ends, turn around, re-evaluate...constantly, every single year. You'll never "get it." You'll be in process until that child walks out the door...to continue the process on their own.

Unless you lose sight of that goal, you're not going to ruin that child's education.

Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

SWB

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

(P.P.S. Kind of.)

[Denise in NE]

I followed WTM very closely grades 1-8. However, I have moved to a more traditional path for highschool. We are not centering our highschool study around Great Books. I have also opted to use science textbooks(BJU). We have also dropped Latin for Spanish. As for history, we are still on a chronological schedule for two years(World History Part 1&2), but I will reserve a year for American history, and year for economics and government.

Like Michelle, we also followed WTM fairly closely through 8th grade, and are deviating here and there for high school. I am sure that SWB is agreeing enthusiastically with all of us who use WTM for a springboard and not necessarily as a ball and chain!

Denise in NE

[Susie in CA]

This is exactly how I feel about the WTM. I think a lot of people see us slaving away all day long. That is not how it works. We do work hard at it in the mornings. However, a lot of what we do happens all day long --it's just not called school. That's when we go hiking, do nature walks, watch Science DVDs, do crafts, play games etc., cook.

To me TWTM is not a curriculum. IT IS A LIFESTYLE OF LEARNING ALL THE TIME. That is what makes it a mixture of Classical Schooling and Unschooling to me.

Susie

[Sue G in PA]

instead of my "Bible". I follow SWB's writing suggestions b/c I agree w/ it (mostly). I don't think she'd be upset...I think she realizes there is more than 1 way to hs your kids and that WTM and Classical Education is just one. Classical or not, the WTM is still an excellent hs book.

[tess in the burbs]

We are early in our school years, but I like TWTM for what it is...a great guideline with many ways to implement.

I was a math/science person in school and did not do well AT ALL in the language arts area, so TWTM has been great for our school. Without the ideas for the younger set, I wouldn't have done it honestly. So I appreciate the book very much for what it offers.

I also LOVE the 4 year cycle for history. I loved history in school but it was so all over the place I never made a lot of connections until I transferred to a college that required the 4 year history cycle and then wow(!) I got it! I have really tried to move away from TWTM b/c the language arts seemed to much at times(IMHO) for the older grades when they might want to be more science or math based....but that 4 year cycle keeps drawing me back in.

My son is actually thriving with FLL and OPG(as review this year) and seems strong in the language arts where I never was. So at this point we will keep on following the book guidelines and reevaluate as they get older and may want to move into more science/math based education. I do think the program is heavy on language arts and history but it's something that my own background lacked, so I am using it now to help build that base for the upper grades.

[Mama Lynx]

Yup, Nan ... that's why I'm still here :)

I think it's hard for some people (me included) ... you know, overachiever types ... to look at all the lists and recommendations in TWTM and STEP BACK. I can modify and simplify until the cows come home, but then when I look a large booklist, or outlines that say "do this, do this, do this," I tend to freak out and throw my modifications and simplifications out the window. Then after awhile of panicking, and putting away the lists, I can find my way back to where I want to be.

So when people ask how LCC is different than TWTM, I often tell them that in my case, it's really not that different. What I'm doing now looks pretty much the same as what I was doing then. However, when I reach freakout mode, the LCC book is that calm voice whispering in my ear, reminding me that as long as I focus on particular areas, we'll be fine. My homeschool exists, then, between the two. You could call it modified WTM, or modified LCC. Same thing. For me.

[SandraDumas]

exactly as written. And even then I wonder!

I love the well trained mind because it's the first homeschooling book that helped me to make and think long-term, and helped me really see the big picture.

I like CM but I don't resonate with her as far as helping me put it into practice. I love the idea of short lessons, living books, time outdoors, nature study and the arts but I'm not artsy. I wish I were but I'm not. I can't dance, play an instrument or do any kind of artistic thing. So I always feel defeated trying to implement CM...

We are somewhere between traditional textbooks and Classical. Using Covenant Home we will be using quite a few textbooks, and will have a daily plan.

[Robin Hood]

The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.
.......Unless you lose sight of that goal, you're not going to ruin that child's education.

This is why I like TWTM, but when the little tykes frustrate my plans for them continually, I feel like I am ruining their education. I think that comes from my lack of education, but I continue to plod forward though and see good stuff come from them. Still, listening to your simple statements like those above takes the pressure I put myself under off my mind. Thanks Susan.

[Michelle T]

[QUOTE=Lux Et Veritas Academy;35987]Do you find that you have moved away, even far away from WTM?



I was never WTM to start with! While I like the ideas of WTM, I don't think as written, it is the best choice for LD or ADHD kids. My guy takes a LOT of modifying of all curriculum, and is below grade level in all areas. He just cannot handle the amount of writing, memorizing, or logic that WTM calls for.

I pick and choose what elements I like from WTM, CM, unit studies, school-at-home, unschooling, you name it. My only concern is how best to teach my son, I don't so much care which method I use. Whatever works best!
Michelle T

[Kristiana]

I've been saying for year now that arguing about which model is "more" or "less" classical is totally pointless. You should be thinking: Which model will meet my goals for my family, and within my family, for each individual child?

Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.

I think that the paths we outline in TWTM have helped many parents design a journey towards that goal. And I have to say that most of the nasty attacks I've seen on us and on the book, over the past ten years, come from people who have totally misunderstood our intention: To equip you to get YOURSELF there. We're trying to strengthen and equip, not oppress.


I happen to love WTM and I feel strengthened and equipped!! When I first read it, it spoke to me and I felt like I could see where I was going and what I wanted the end result of my homeschooling my children to be (for the first time). So far, the WTM-recommended curriculum has generally clicked with my oldest. He's just that kind of kid, probably always will be. My second child however, is completely different with different needs, and #3--who knows, but I feel like I know what my goal is and I know how to evaluate each child's needs to reach that goal. So I feel that I'm still being true to TWTM.

[Chloe]

I'd love that 4-year cycle with AO books as well!!! Hmmm.....maybe I'll try to find the time to do it myself this summer. I wouldn't hold my breath though. LOL! I have a 1 yo and three older ones who keep me busy with swim team. Lazy, hazy days of summer don't exist for us.

[Cedarmom]

SWB said of her book " Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal."

TWTMThanks for this reminder. The goal of having my child be able to evaluate information is what touched my heart when I read the book the first time. I have adapted some things for our journey, but the goal has not changed. I have jokingly called what I do "classical light" because we are not as rigorous as TWTM, but it is nice to be reminded that it as not as much about following an exact plan as finding a way to reach your goal.

Cedarmom

[siloam]

Do you find that you have moved away, even far away from WTM? I have in my choices, but not in theory. What would you "label" or consider yourself doing now-:confused: I just think my kids work better under the CM style- and more under "MY" style-

For the younger kids I am much more CM, but about 3rd grade I start moving them more classical.

Heather

[Zelda]

No matter which direction our education takes I will forever have a debt of gratitude to TWTM for allowing me to get beyond my early confusion over what home education could be. I think it will always serve as the bones of our school. Even with the adjustments that I continue to make I stick fairly closely to the overall guidelines. The adaptability was one of the things I really loved about it. Of course, we're in our freshman year so there's a lot of evolution to still take place.

[ldee]

but after reading WTM and following WTM very closely for 3 years, we then used LCC and WTM combined, using MFW for 2 years. I still use WTM history...love SOTW above anything else I have used.
My 4th grader is using RC, SOW for Bible and writing/Literature, Saxon, and will read SOTW cycle. I have found the right combination!!!
My younger 2 are learning to read and doing RS math. They will follow along when they reach 4th too. Until then it is phonics, RS and SOTW read aloud. I always use IEW for 3rd and 4th writing fundamentals.

[chiguirre]

I've ended up in a very different place than what I thought I would be doing, but it does work. I've read and reread TWTM and although we do things differently, it is a model I admire and draw from all the time, even when we're using Whole-to-parts curricula!:o

[Luanne]

Just a curious question ... you all use initials for everything ... what is "LCC"?

[Colleen in NS]

So kudos to all of you who are trying to reach that goal. You'll make wrong moves, back up, try again, hit dead ends, turn around, re-evaluate...constantly, every single year. You'll never "get it." You'll be in process until that child walks out the door...to continue the process on their own.

I'll never get it?? I'll be in process for the next 11 years?? EVERY year?? Try every month!! :) I was thinking these very things yesterday, as I was looking at samples of Mind Benders books online to order for next year...and starting that panic feeling again..."Oh no, something ELSE I'm going to have to learn, that I never learned before (logic)!" Just when I had finally come up from the mists and started to get a grip on overall writing goals, now logic is creeping up on me. (But I'm determined to do it)

Your grammar sort-of joke had me ROTFL!

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

Just a curious question ... you all use initials for everything ... what is "LCC"?

Latin Centered Curriculum

[King Alfred Academy]

So I follow their basic framework, plugging in the books from Ambleside. I would, however, like to sit me down and try to re-arrange the AO books into a 4 year cycle (history and science) because I really love that about WTM. :D

Oh please do! :D That is pretty much the only thing holding me back from AO.

I love WTM. It helped me to figure out what kind of an education I desire for my kiddos. With that being said...I am not an exclusive WTMer. I like the 4 year cycle of history and enjoy the introduction SOTW and the AG have given my boys.

I have recently read LCC and that also spoke to me. I will be making Latin more of a focus for our school. However, I will also be doing a grammar program along with it. If for anything than piece of mind *knowing* it is getting covered. That's just me. :)

Literature is a BIG deal in our family. Good lit. and not, as CM has put so well, twaddle. Therefore, I hope to incorporate more of a CM approach with lit. and Language Arts in general.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about all of this and just trying to figure it all out. You people have been a tremendous source of ideas and encouragement for me. Thank you! :D

[Crissy]

:D

Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

(P.P.S. Kind of.)

Oh, that made me laugh!
I *just* told my son this morning, after re-reading the rhetoric chapters in TWTM, that we wouldn't be dropping grammar for high school.
Would you believe this response? He said, "Oh, good!" :confused:

[King Alfred Academy]

I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. They didn't mean us to follow their recommendations exactly and do everything on their list and not change anything. They spend a lot of time in the book explaining that we are supposed to use our brains and our hearts and do what is best for our own particular families. TWTM even has suggestions for school-in-a-box and correspondence schools. If you guys have used TWTM as a springboard for homeschooling, then you are WTMers! I'm sure the last thing SWB and JW would want is for you to follow their suggestions no-brained-ly.

-Nan

Well yelled (uh, said)! :D

[dragons in the flower bed]

I hang out for the ideas.

I come here because this place is safe from unschooling evangelists. If I share here that our math program is not working for us, I am certain no one is going to say, "Well, children aren't programmed to learn from textbooks, so maybe you should try trusting your kids."

[Jenny in Atl]

The WTM gave me confidence when I started this adventure six years ago. I love these boards and do use a good bit of the Neo Classical methods (copy work, grammar, latin, etc) as well as others outside WTM (science, 4 year history mixed with US history from SL). I love that my kids are getting better (scaffolding) to use a public school term. I came up in the math, whole language, let it all hang-out 70's and have awful skills to show for it (grammar, spelling, etc). I'm glad that my dd12 can now spell better than I and already writes far better than I ever did in sixth grade and my dd7 knows who won the Battle of Hastings. I have Susan and these boards to that for that. :D

[PamInMN]

When I first contemplated homeschooling...... prior to having children..... I was sure I wanted to Unschool......... then I read TWTM and followed that for the first couple of years until I found LCC........ I've been freaking out because my girls have lagged some while I am trying to get my son reading (not easy)..... so at this point I feel we have become Classical Unschoolers. :p

[Snickerdoodle]

I come here because this place is safe from unschooling evangelists.


Um, me too.

[Aletheia Academy]

as a basic guide. I think it's natural for teachers to sometimes feel oppressed by the curriculum. When I taught for several years in PS, it was the same thing. We all want to do want to do what is best for our kids but receive so much, often conflicting, information. And, of course, there are the nay-sayers, even among close friends and family. I don't know why, I just never fell into that. My saying: "You are the master of the curriculum, the curriculum does not master you." Is that personal, or did I get that from somewhere else?

I was very encouraged by SWB when I met her at a conference and sheepishly confessed, with my head down, that my ds didn't seem to like OPG. She just smiled, looked me right in the eye, and said, "It's not working for him. Try Phonics Pathways." We did, he loves it, and I sold OPG. No big deal.

Mad Lib Junior and Schoolhouse Rock might be a more innocuous and fun way to introduce parts of speech than FLL, and then maybe we'll move to Easy Grammar around 3rd grade when ds and dd are both writing and reading more comfortably. I can't wait to see SWB's writing text, but even with that, I know it will be more of a guide than a daily curriculum for us if we use it.

Like some of you, I am very drawn to AO and general elements of CM. I do plan on using the picture study and literature suggestions from AO. If that 4-yr re-org of AO happens, I would love it. Look- the pressure's on, Pheasant Ridge Academy! :-)

My main confusion is how to approach science. I love the idea of the CM-style immersion study of the Aplogia programs for elementary years, but I also like introducing the different areas of science over the first 4 years a la WTM. What to do?

Hey, right now, I am totally jazzed that my ds can read a Bob Book all by himself to his father. I say, thank you SWB and WTM for empowering me to undertake this incredible journey with my dc. I count it a blessing and am grateful for the resource you have provided.

Looking forward to Kindergarten again.

[lilyroselove]

I am totally eclectic and I love it. I don't follow anything hard core and if I feel I am loosing my dd7 then I change. I use workbooks and the computer because she does great with them. I think HS is about finding what works best for you and your children. I don't think there is one perfect way to do things.

[Lorna]

I found that many of the home education books I read when I first took our children out of school were very vague and didn't make any concrete suggestions. They were a waste of time.
The Well Trained Mind aims high and helped me to cement some of my ideas on what I wanted for our children's education. I took all the curriculum suggestions as just that, suggestions. It was good to have somewhere to start.
We do use Singapore Maths, Spelling Workout and the How..Works series. I used the Story of the World Book 1 with our children and we enjoyed it but I was uncertain how to adapt it to two different ages (dd didn't enjoy outlining) and it seemed quite young for our two. I also gave up on teaching the children diagramming. I wasn't committed to the idea and the children found it quite dull (perhaps it was the programme I used because not many were available in the UK).
I find the chronological approach to history makes sense but we are in the habit of going off at tangents and so it has taken us quite some time to reach the Middle Ages with dd and now ds is scooting ahead with the Renaissance.
We do science the logic stage WTM way because there is so little out there for secular home-schoolers and they have put their finger on the best available resources in my opinion.
For me 'The Well Trained Mind' gives me confidence. I can see what a good education should look like and I can adapt that model to suit us.
I also love that it has brought me to these boards where I can meet others who have similar goals for their children's education.

[Paula in PA]

Oh, that made me laugh!
I *just* told my son this morning, after re-reading the rhetoric chapters in TWTM, that we wouldn't be dropping grammar for high school.
Would you believe this response? He said, "Oh, good!" :confused:

So my dd isn't the only one who wants to do grammar forever? :) I told her we didn't need to use a separate grammar next year with CW Aesop. She looked at me quite seriously and said "We are using GWG, Mommy. I want to!"

I pretty much use WTM as a guideline. We've used a lot of the recommendations so far, but have made some changes that suit us better. We follow the 4-year cycle for history with SOTW, including narrations. For science, though, we have followed the progression, but have used different spines. We used OPG and FLL, but will be moving to GWG next year, along with CW Aesop. We use SWO for spelling, but I may be changing that for next year. For math, we are using RightStart. We are using Minimus and will continue with Secondus, then with Latin Prep. This is what has worked for us.

Paula

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

I have really discovered who my kids are through the process, and love the WTM 4 year cycle- but would like to condense it more for history. I have used Prentice Hall for science and love it. I want to combine in a wealth of technology with CM/AO lit. Plus I love letting them just go off on things they want to discover-

[Mamagistra]

You could call it modified WTM, or modified LCC. Same thing. For me.

Yep. What Stephanie said. :)

[Aletheia Academy]

[ We follow the 4-year cycle for history with SOTW, including narrations. For science, though, we have followed the progression, but have used different spines. Paula[/quote]

This is the area that has me confused. What has been your experience?

[Paula in PA]

Nancy,

We have used REAL Science from Pandia Press for the last 2 years, first Life then Earth. We love it! The experiments and activities are excellent and are generally not hard to do. We actually ended up using the spines recommended as references, as well as ones from the Usborne First Encyclopedia series. I did expand the Human Body and Plant sections of Life, since we have a 42 week year, by adding additional project books. For Earth, I expanded the Exterior and Interior Earth sections and will be doing the same with Space, just by adding books from the library. Next year for chemistry was harder as there is no REAL Science for it. :( I finally settled on RS4K Chemistry Pre-level 1, Super Science Concoctions, and Fizz Bubble Flash. I hope it works! :)

HTH
Paula

[Shannon831]

The bottom line is that if it is a schedule that someone else made up, we follow it fairly closely. If it's a scheule I've made up, it just doesn't seem to happen.

That is SO me. When I heard SWB speak about writing, I was all over it, but without an actual curriculum to follow- it's just not happening.

I consider us eclectic, with an emphasis on good literature.

[Shannon831]

http://www.myemoticons.com/animated/moods/images/cryingwithlaughter.gif' />Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

SWB

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

(P.P.S. Kind of.)



Too funny!

[jail warden]

:D

Which brings me to the REAL value, for me, of (neo)classical education. IT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU'RE GOING. The goal of a classical education is this: at the end of the twelve (or however many) years you educate, the child can gather information, evaluate it, and express an opinion about it. There are many paths to that goal.

I think that the paths we outline in TWTM have helped many parents design a journey towards that goal.


Thanks for this. Your book has completely changed my view of homeschooling. When we first started out I thought I had to go with a boxed curriculum because I had no clue what my kids needed to know. Once I read WTM though, I was able to feel free to start my own searches and know my kids were still getting a great education. No, I don't use all of your recommendations because they don't all fit my family. However, the path you have laid for me has made me comfortable enough to venture out and do things differently. I thank you so much for that.

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

If that 4-yr re-org of AO happens, I would love it. Look- the pressure's on, Pheasant Ridge Academy! :-)


:eek: :eek: :eek:


:)

[training5]

I think WTM was never intended to be an all or nothing approach. I think of it as a framework to build on. It gives me an overall guide, not a book of commandments to obey.
I use whatever works for my kids. We have tried several ways of doing things here. The first time I tried to apply WTM, I did follow it to the letter. Guess what happened? My kids hated it and I burned out. So now I have learned, like with any educational philosophy/book/curriculum, take what works for us and chuck the rest.

[happymainemom]

For a while we moved slightly away from it. Simply because my ADD son required a different approach.

Now that he is in the public high school just for the mornings, my dd7 and I are able to really do a more classical approach. So I find I'm moving back to it. dd is really surprised at every link between our language and Greek or Latin. I love that she is really picking up the foundational things that I believe in establishing and I find myself being more and more convinced of the benefits of this method. I'm totally excited for the next few years! (Rah, rah.....imagine pom poms.)

Lisa

[Deb in NZ]

I have always seen WTM as my "road map" for my dc's educational journey. Each year I choose "vehicles" to get us where we need to go. Some years we've followed WTM's reccomendations, other years AWOA or SL have provided the structure we needed for that season. The beauty of HS/ing is our freedom to tailor each child's education to his/her own special needs. In NZ we are very lucky that the gov't only requires that we provide an education for our dc that is "at least as regular & as well as" the education that the public schools provide.

Blessings,

[Nan in Mass]

Phew! Thank you.

[Emmy]

Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

SWB

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

(P.P.S. Kind of.)

This literally made me laugh out loud. :D

As for me - well I'm early in the homeschooling journey but I really like my WTM book. I know I'm not getting every bit out of it yet but when things are going well, I go back and re-read the sections on this kid or that and it's so helpful. I always find something else to think about. If anything I find it more simple than when I was trying to follow a packaged language arts curriculum and a packaged history curriculum. All those charts to follow and books to keep track of - read 4 pages here then 9 pages there then make a paper plate turtle and look up this website....I was spinning trying to get it all done. It seems so much easier to me to implement the directives in WTM. I love that "how to do it" section for each subject.

I especially love the section on kindergarten - whenever I start to think I'm piling to much on my 5yo I go back and look at it and realize I don't need to do nearly as much with him as I think I do.

To me TWTM has simplified things. But again - I'm early in my homeschool career, and I can see already that it will be a continual journey adapting and adjusting as I go.

[Tutor]

Ditto. And I believe that in one of her online newsletters, SWB admits that even she doesn't strictly follow TWTM. It is meant only as a guide.

When asked what method we follow, I generally say "relaxed classical" or "homeschool classical" because what most people think of when they think of classical is latin and chronological history and we do both of those.

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

SWB- Thanks for posting- I am coming to Williamsburg in April for a field study with my two oldest. I would love to sit down and talk about the 4 year cycle! I really like the fact that you are reading the boards. ;)

[Nan in Mass]

Guess that isn't very clear. Just meant that it is always scary speaking for someone else and a relief when they chime in for themselves. ;)

[freethinkermom]

TWTM is my guide for what to teach in what order, but how I teach looks nothing like what is suggested. For me, TWTM, was the first guidline I came across that was not trying to push unschooling, recreate a public school environment at home, or trying to force religion into every subject. It also convinced me that chronoligical history is the way to go.

Generally, I think we are pretty relaxed. The kids are done by lunch time and can do what they want with their free time. Compared to the amount of academics done at the local public schools, my kids do a ton of academic work everyday.

[Trivium Academy]

I'm at a toss up, I appreciate WTM in so far as giving us a 'vision' to begin with but right now I realize I've made serious errors in our first year by trying to duplicate WTM in our home. I didn't have the experience or confidence to follow anything else. Everything was measured against what WTM said.

I don't know what has knocked me upside the head lately but I started wondering WHY we were following WTM, why were we using XYZ product. I think it was the struggle with FLL and seeing the new writing products which led me to start evaluating what in the world we were doing and why.

Without WTM, I wouldn't have the base that we started from, the means to fulfill the type of education we didn't understand fully that we wanted when we first decided that public school wasn't working. Now I have a direction to follow with logic, rhetoric, and ending up with Great Books education. Ultimately, that is what we want for our children- an education that will formulate their thinking, reasoning and heart in all areas so that when they go out into the world they have a strong base in which to draw from.

I turned down an opportunity to attend a Great Books college with a scholarship, that is the heart of my desires for my children's education (and my own). We want socratic discussions, logical thinking, original ideas presented and WTM provided a path for that type of education.

I'm so grateful that an accessible model exists to show parents that it is possible but I wish I would have realized sooner to evaluate the hows, whys and whens a little more closely before going forward. I guess that would be my advice to new homeschoolers, to learn about why they are to teach certain subjects at certain times before overwhelming their children with subjects they don't need until later.

[Kelli in TN]

I come here because this place is safe from unschooling evangelists. If I share here that our math program is not working for us, I am certain no one is going to say, "Well, children aren't programmed to learn from textbooks, so maybe you should try trusting your kids."

Okay, that truly made me laugh out loud!!!

I am fortunate in that we have a pretty good mix of homeschoolers in my local community, but I do know one or two families like that.

I like them, but I don't hang out with them much. I remember one saying something like "I just can't see why spelling matters." :eek:

[Kelli in TN]

TWTM is my guide for what to teach in what order, but how I teach looks nothing like what is suggested. For me, TWTM, was the first guidline I came across that was not trying to push unschooling, recreate a public school environment at home, or trying to force religion into every subject. It also convinced me that chronoligical history is the way to go.

Generally, I think we are pretty relaxed. The kids are done by lunch time and can do what they want with their free time. Compared to the amount of academics done at the local public schools, my kids do a ton of academic work everyday.

That is how it works for us too. I read TWTM after I had been homeschooling for about 8 years and it gave me direction and vision that was sorely lacking.

It also set this committed Christian free from thinking that we had to incorporate Christianity into every school subject for a proper spiritual upbringing!

[Cadam]

I am still pretty WTM but now I lean LCC quite a bit.

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

I can't believe that this continues to resurrect itself- But I am glad to know SWB is watching her flock!:)

[cbb_momof3]

:D

Those of you who aren't doing grammar are the exception. You're beyond help. :)

SWB

(P.S. That was a JOKE.)

(P.P.S. Kind of.)

Thank God! That's about the only area that we're succeeding in this year!
:)

Thanks for your entire post SWB!

This year has been a very challenging one in which the school bus passing by each morning becomes increasingly more and more tempting.

I'll tell you what keeps me going... oddly enough its the kids in my Sunday School Class. I'm the Children's "Pastor"/director at our church, and I got so sick and tired of the lowsy curriculum choices that I decided to write a "neo-classical" curriculum for the average "public" schooled kids that I get in Sunday School! The kids went from only remember the games at church each week to being able to recite back to me the events in the Bible that occured from Creation through the book of Joshua which is where we are now. Seeing them thrive at this approach carries over into my home and keeps me going here as well.

My dd9 went to ps for k and then I brought her home for first grade. I started w a box curriculum and then found TWTM. It overwhelmed me and still does at times, but in general even attempting this approach has opened my dd9 heart to a love for education. She LOVES to learn, and when I see that she is completely bored it is usually time for me to switch things up. What better learning experience for our children than to learn the skill and probably through my scattered brain, they will probably master the skill, of re-evaluating. Everything we do, education, work, and even our relationships in life require some level of evaluation to succeed.

Thank you for starting this thread. I needed this moment of self reflection to not only make it through the rest of the year, but to enjoy it.

Beth ~ Ohio

[Quiver0f10]

Bumping this. I needed this today.

[LittleIzumi]

I came here for the FSOT initially. I'm eclectic/partial unschooler with a CM bent :lol:. We keep the board spicy ;)

[M&M]

Thanks for bumping this Jean! I really needed this today!

[Jeana]

Shari,

That was very well said! I totally agree with you. I am one of the crash and burns. My oldest two are doing BJU 5 and 7 dvd, and it's going wel. My ds 6 is doing WWE, FLL, SW A, and Singapore Math. I consider History and Science the icing on the cake. He listens to SOTW and we are beekeepers so he is learing about nature etc. all the time just by living it and asking 'lots' of questions. I am beginning to be at peace with this. Next year I might bring my dd 10 back around to a less rigorous WTM because she would rather me teach. However, this way gets done. I know they have fullfilled the requirements for a solid education. Maybe not the one I want them to have. Unfortunately, I am not willing to put in the countless hours to educate myself so I can adequately do all the things mentioned in the wonderful book WTM that I have loved and refered to for the past 13 yrs. I want my kids to be able to go to college and get a good job that they enjoy. More importantly though, I want them to be an assest to society and to their family and be with me in heaven for eternity. So, Susan Wise Bauer, my hat goes off to you. I love your books and they have proved to educate my children well. I will continue with FLL, WWE, and your history resources. I will even go so far as to get my kids to learn latin and logic, to the best of my abilities. I thank you for challenging me to be a better educator and provide for my kids a better education than I received. You and your family are amazing in what you are accomplishing for all of us on this board. If for nothing else but to remind us that we 'can' do it. We don't have to raise elites. We just need to raise kids who know how to teach themselves, ask questions, and be accountable for the choices they make in life. I probablly would have quit a long time ago if not for this board and the great minds out there that her book and this board has brought together. So, I thank all of you as well for your support, patience, kindness, and challenges that you have put forth for me and to others. God bless you all in your endeavour to raise and educate your children to set the world on fire. We can and will succeed if we never give up and we keep our priorities in order. Take care all and have a great weekend.

Jeana

[Quill]

I see myself as "relaxed Classical". I was never lock-step with WTM. We have many of the classical elements, but WTM as recommended is too intense for me and for my kids. I also find that if I get stuck on wanting to be "by the book" classical, I turn into an Evil Overlord!

[Tree House Academy]

Yep. I still like it and refer to it, but in the end, I always go my own way.

Unfortunately, the way that suits ME (WTM style) is NOT exactly the way that suits my KIDS.

[LynnG in Hawaii]

I come here because this place is safe from unschooling evangelists. If I share here that our math program is not working for us, I am certain no one is going to say, "Well, children aren't programmed to learn from textbooks, so maybe you should try trusting your kids."

Similarly, I come here as a refuge from the "path of least resistance" homeschoolers. The ones who are deeply suspicious of my goal to give my kids a rigorous education. The ones who think it is ok to regularly finish just 1/4th of their math for the year (we're talking about older kids with no learning issues, no major family upheavals) because, "Oh well. It's still much more than they would be getting in a public school."

[abbeyej]

Strangely, I find we're getting *closer* to WTM in some ways. Not that I was ever terribly far... But certainly for history and literature, we're much closer with my middle schooler than we were in elementary.

[Rhondabee]

but I cannot even begin to consider myself a Classical homeschooler. I have never agreed philosophically with the rigor of study for the K-4 crowd, or the teaching of classical languages, especially at 2nd and 3rd grade. I have seen many, many people over the years, and on these boards in particular, start out absolutely gung-ho about WTM, only to crash and burn and feel like failures when they can't make it work in the real world. What's worse than watching your 6yo have a meltdown over Achilles??

I love the chronological approach to history, which is what convinced me to try WTM in the first place. I loved the *idea* of WTM, and the Classical Scholar I would produce as a result of the program. How all my family would finally shut up and be impressed when I homeschooled a National Merit Scholar! Unfortunately, that's just not real. It is the person I wish I was, and the type of education I would like to have had, but to what end? I am not the perfect scholar and neither are my dc, and no amount of Latin and philosophy will change that. :D

I guess I don't understand what a "classical" educator is. I would think anyone doing TOG would qualify. It's history-focused. It's language focused. It even helps with the interactions between teacher and child, so that the child learns to think, not simply regurgitate a lecture. If that's not "classical" education, what is?

Even though we really haven't been hs'ing very long, I've seen the gung-ho to crash-and-burn phenomena as well. And, I've learned to moderate my expectations as you mentioned. I started looking for moms who are "slow and steady", and modeling my homeschool after theirs.

I didn't respond in your thread on the HS Board about "regular" kids because we use what *I* consider to be classical methods and content, but at a high school level. I really wish "classical education" didn't have the connotation of "college at home". I don't think that's really what SWB intended.

[Shari]

I guess I don't understand what a "classical" educator is. I would think anyone doing TOG would qualify. It's history-focused. It's language focused. It even helps with the interactions between teacher and child, so that the child learns to think, not simply regurgitate a lecture. If that's not "classical" education, what is?


My definition of a classical educator / education is one with a focus on the Trivium stages of learning, classical languages, emphasis on Greek/Roman literature, logic, writing via the progymnasmata philosophy. Any one of these on their own does not a make classical educator, but a curriculum containing *most* of these elements would probably be considered more classical than, say, BJU or Abeka or Houghton Mifflin. There have already been numerous threads / debates on these boards about the differences.

TOG is not especially classical in my opinion, just more Liberal Arts or integrated in presentation.

ETA: All that being said, I am dropping TOG next year for my oldest and going 'all in a box'. For better or worse.

[KarenAnne]

What is fascinating to me is the gap between what I perceive as the tone of TWTM and the actual advice, which IS there, to experiment, substitute, be flexible and try out what works for your family/kids. The tone of the book has always both attracted and haunted me because of its absolute certainty: this is the best way to do things, this will make even a better car mechanic than any other path of education, mother knows best, you need to do this and this and this, in this way. As I am a mass of uncertainties I find this incredibly attractive, scary, and sometimes off-putting -- often all at the same time.

Yet when I then read SWB's interviews or the accounts of "a day in our homeschool" in the archives, she seems so much less rigid or authoritative. In these less formal accounts her struggles to get "school" done, to take care of active, less than cooperative kids, to feed and dress her family, to do her own work, are all so vivid and so messy and so real. Her vignettes show how the neoclassical model can be an overarching guide without a family having to follow every single idea, every single subject, every single day's schedule down to the tiniest detail.

The book calls itself a template or ideal. I think what it also does is attempt to formally impose order and structure on what is a truly chaotic and individual process. This is probably inevitable when you are writing what is, after all, a guide, meant for a large audience, and when the publishers are worried about making it all seem much more ordered than SWB says life really is. So in a way there's a false opposition between the book and what people actually do, because the book was never meant to be an exclusively prescriptive, do-it-this-way-it's-the-only-way thing. You can see this in the differences in editions of TWTM, the changes that unfold -- not just as things become out of print or unavailable, but as SWB's thinking evolves.

I don't know if I'm making this at all clear. But I find it really fascinating, as I do all attempts to create an overarching philosophy and working model of a child's education. I have a child with Asperger's Syndrome who struggled for a number of years with dysgraphia and fine motor problems, so much of the neoclassical philosophy does not hold true or work with my child. I have found that any time I have a tendency towards philosophizing in general about education, my daughter will disprove what I am thinking. She is so different that my ideas tend to have been built up around her idiosyncracies, what works with her. So I get further and further away from a general overarching model even as I see its clear attractions and benefits.

I first was drawn to SWB because of her certainties and her orderly plan; however, the longer I homeschool, the more I value her flexibility, her adaptability, her willingness to talk about the difficult parts of homeschooling, and most of all, her admission that it's really hard -- virtually impossible actually -- for one person to do this all alone. I see mainly mothers struggling in these boards, to do it all, on their own, often in situations where they feel isolated. I think these message boards are one of SWB's greatest gifts to homeschoolers, because it relieves the isolation and makes us feel that we are NOT going it alone.

[Colleen in NS]

I see mainly mothers struggling in these boards, to do it all, on their own, often in situations where they feel isolated. I think these message boards are one of SWB's greatest gifts to homeschoolers, because it relieves the isolation and makes us feel that we are NOT going it alone.

YES YES YES!!!!!!!

And I understood everything else you wrote. I've been a mass of uncertainties, too, even in the midst of trying to implement ideas from WTM, and trying to understand underlying "threads" throughout the book. I am so, so grateful for this free board, all the articles Susan has written and put up here for us to read for free, the products that PHP puts out, and all the great posters here who continually check in, answer questions, commiserate, talk about the daily grind, and give lights at the end of the tunnel (thinking of a post I just read).

Thanks, Jean, for reraising - there have been several good threads lately about this, haven't there. It's February-blues time!:D

[hillfarm]

I will probably really get kicked off for this, but I am having a real crisis of belief regarding classical education. We were doing fine, but then I stubbed my toe on Latin. I like languages, I am pretty good at languages and speak several. I feel that we could do fine with Latin, but I don't want to.

The more I began to explore my feelings regarding my Latin aversion, the more I began to develop a sense that the classical education is extremely "Western" in theme (and I don't mean cowboy!). What about the ancient knowledge and philosophies of China? India? The Middle East? Other civilizations? And I began to ponder the fact that the future may be much more focused on the Middle East and Far East than on the West, as it has been in the past. Would I be doing my child a disservice by not puting more emphasis on these other cultures?

I began to look for the fruit of the few classical homeschoolers I know in my area. And it wasn't bad..., just not quite as impressive as I had hoped in exchange for all the rigor and focus.

So currently I am drifting a bit. I know some things I want for dd's education and some I don't want. I am still trying to find my way. My hat's off to those of you who have chosen the WTM method and it is working well for you. Honestly, I am a bit envious. I hope I can find that which I am seeking.

[Cindie2dds]

Well, I got about as far off track as I could get; but we are all truly thriving. I am grateful to SWB for her wonderful book, which I use as a reference quite often. I couldn't imagine not having these boards. I found out about Waldorf/Oak Meadow (thanks, Audrey) have gotten endless help with math (thanks, Bill) and found out what Charlotte Mason's methods were. Now we just mix, stir and strain to come out with our own thing. I wouldn't have found our groove as smoothly and as early on without this place. Even though I'm not technically a WTMer, I am very happy to learn as much as I can from all of you out there!

[Verity]

[QUOTE=Lux Et Veritas Academy;35987]Do you find that you have moved away, even far away from WTM?



I was never WTM to start with! While I like the ideas of WTM, I don't think as written, it is the best choice for LD or ADHD kids. My guy takes a LOT of modifying of all curriculum, and is below grade level in all areas. He just cannot handle the amount of writing, memorizing, or logic that WTM calls for.

I pick and choose what elements I like from WTM, CM, unit studies, school-at-home, unschooling, you name it. My only concern is how best to teach my son, I don't so much care which method I use. Whatever works best!
Michelle T

Funny, I've found that WTM recs suit my Aspie and LD boys pretty well (for the most part). The copywork(small quantities), FLL, WWE, etc...are hits around here. But then all LD kids are different and will respond to different things. The short lessons, read alouds and stories (they can listen to while jumping on the mini trampoline or playing with playdoh) keep them sane during the day. I have been enjoying TWTM and found it easy to tweak as needed.
I really love that the author took some time to comment on this thread herself! Thanks SWB!

[Night Elf]

This is funny that this thread was brought back again. I first posted in this thread in Feb. 2008. In fact, 2 days away from being exactly 2 years, and I can still stand by my response. I haven't changed in 2 years. Yay! That means I've finally been consistent with something! :)

I gave up trying any curriculum that didn't have a written out do-this-today type schedule. But I've stayed on these boards because they are super for the most part. I truly appreciate SWB letting us have this board and letting members like me be here even though we don't follow WTM.

[laundrycrisis]

I come here because this place is safe from unschooling evangelists. If I share here that our math program is not working for us, I am certain no one is going to say, "Well, children aren't programmed to learn from textbooks, so maybe you should try trusting your kids."

:) This is why I am here. I feel WTM is the only place where a desire to have my kids on sound academic footing and a commitment to help them get there will not be criticized.

I am not following WTM strictly, or very rigorously right now. But I am more inspired by the WTM approach than by anything else I have read, and the key ideas I am going with are from WTM. I think as we get further into our HSing journey I will be using more ideas from the WTM approach.

Our first grader is having some challenges with reading and writing. Anyplace else I ask for suggestions, at least two people will post or PM me that I should just trust him to read when he is ready, or relate some story of a child they read about who learned to read at a very late age and went on to earn three PhDs or something. The community here is very supportive of parents being committed to helping their child with academic learning. I really appreciate that.

[LynnG in Hawaii]

:) This is why I am here. I feel WTM is the only place where a desire to have my kids on sound academic footing and a commitment to help them get there will not be criticized.

I am not following WTM strictly, or very rigorously right now. But I am more inspired by the WTM approach than by anything else I have read, and the key ideas I am going with are from WTM. I think as we get further into our HSing journey I will be using more ideas from the WTM approach.

Our first grader is having some challenges with reading and writing. Anyplace else I ask for suggestions, at least two people will post or PM me that I should just trust him to read when he is ready, or relate some story of a child they read about who learned to read at a very late age and went on to earn three PhDs or something. The community here is very supportive of parents being committed to helping their child with academic learning. I really appreciate that.

I so agree with what you wrote. I have been inspired by WTM and have definitely incorporated many aspects of it into our homeschool. Some years have been more "classical" than others. ;) That's ok.

But the people on this board have also helped me enormously. What a priceless resource, to find out about different curricula . . . to learn a different way of doing things that might work for our family!

And although all our families do things differently, and certainly take various approaches based on our individual families and students, I agree that there tends to be a common bond here of striving for academic excellence.

I realize that the goal of "academic excellence" is interpreted in multiple ways, and that's ok. But simply having the goal is a wonderfully refreshing change of pace from the majority of homeschoolers I know "in real life" who, in my opinion, tend to set up a false dichotomy between the goals of having a happy/healthy/spiritual family and aiming for academic excellence.

[kls126s]

Sometimes I wonder how did people ever hs before the internet? :D

I'll bet they spent a lot less money chasing new curricula they just heard about... :glare::tongue_smilie:

[kls126s]

I like TWTM because it is half way between unschooling and school. It lays out which skills need to be specifically taught and which can be covered in a looser, child-let, interest-led way. This makes it efficient. I find the stages, not necessarily the ages but the stages, accurate for my children. Yes, I've modified TWTM recommendations to fit our family, but (ok, I really am shouting now so I'm going to use capitals)

I MODIFIED TWTM USING THE DIRECTIONS FOR DOING SO IN TWTM, SO I'M STILL DOING TWTM!!!

Grin. I think that is what you guys are all forgetting. TWTM TELLS you to modify it, and tells you HOW to modify it for your specific family. They didn't mean us to follow their recommendations exactly and do everything on their list and not change anything. They spend a lot of time in the book explaining that we are supposed to use our brains and our hearts and do what is best for our own particular families. TWTM even has suggestions for school-in-a-box and correspondence schools. If you guys have used TWTM as a springboard for homeschooling, then you are WTMers! I'm sure the last thing SWB and JW would want is for you to follow their suggestions no-brained-ly.

-Nan

*Like button*

:iagree:

[angela in ohio]

I realize that the goal of "academic excellence" is interpreted in multiple ways, and that's ok. But simply having the goal is a wonderfully refreshing change of pace from the majority of homeschoolers I know "in real life" who, in my opinion, tend to set up a false dichotomy between the goals of having a happy/healthy/spiritual family and aiming for academic excellence.

:hurray:

[angela in ohio]

I'll bet they spent a lot less money chasing new curricula they just heard about... :glare::tongue_smilie:

They probably spent that time interacting with their dc. Yeesh! :D

[angela in ohio]

When you talk about those who crash-and-burn, I think it's important to distinguish between academic rigor and those who just do too much and burn themselves out. :D

You can spot the overdoers coming a mile away, and you cringe for their probable future of crash-and-burn. Many times they aren't necessarily academically rigorous, they are just doing a lot of 'stuff.' They are blogging every day's lesson that took ten hours and $300 in materials with their 7 yo. They are giving advice on high school curriculum and they have 3 yo. They are arguing with their dh about spending $4500 on kindergarten curriculum. They get defensive when anyone tells them that they might possibly be overdoing it. ;)

There are many people here who have been academically rigorous for many years (many more than I have) and are still going strong. It doesn't necessarily lead to burnout. Oddly enough, most of those I know IRL who have crashed, burned, and sent the kiddos to school (disclaimer: I am not saying that everyone who sends dc to school has crashed and burned) are unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers. I still haven't put my finger on why that might be, but I can say that there is not a parallel between classical/rigor and crash-and-burn.

[kls126s]

When you talk about those who crash-and-burn, I think it's important to distinguish between academic rigor and those who just do too much and burn themselves out. :D

This is good, Angela. I think it's important, at least for me, to make sure I don't equate lots of work with academic rigor. I definitely get eyebrows up when people find out my 7yo 2nd grader is learning Latin, and then when I tell them school only takes 2-3 hours it's as if it doesn't compute. I leave wondering if I'm making a mess of things.

So now I'm going to go look over my 3rd grade plans again and make sure I'm going for "rigorous" and not "busy".

[justamouse]

Every year I homeschool I lean more towards unschooling. But with a classical spine if that makes any sense at all. Is that Charlotte Mason? I dunno. *shrug.* We do school. Kids are doing awesome. Happiness abounds. S'all good.

Quill said:
I see myself as "relaxed Classical". I was never lock-step with WTM. We have many of the classical elements, but WTM as recommended is too intense for me and for my kids. I also find that if I get stuck on wanting to be "by the book" classical, I turn into an Evil Overlord!


I was lock step at first out of fear and crash and burn is an understatement. I've loosened up-a lot.

[angela in ohio]

This is good, Angela. I think it's important, at least for me, to make sure I don't equate lots of work with academic rigor. I definitely get eyebrows up when people find out my 7yo 2nd grader is learning Latin, and then when I tell them school only takes 2-3 hours it's as if it doesn't compute. I leave wondering if I'm making a mess of things.

So now I'm going to go look over my 3rd grade plans again and make sure I'm going for "rigorous" and not "busy".

Yep. People IRL make a lot of assumptions about our homeschool based on what they know of my expectations for dc. They are usually wrong. :D I sometimes feel sorry (mostly for their dc) that other homeschoolers who are trying to emulate my results and approach think that 'more busy' will get them there. I am the first to tell them that it isn't so, but they don't listen very often.