Abysmal confidence level for math

[NevadaRabbit]

My daughter, that is. Background: she's almost 10yo, public school K-2, home school last year and starting up our second home school year next week. BIG factor in pulling her out of public school was the math curriculum they used (a spiral "new math" load of hooey, if i may say so). It took all of last year to re-build a solid foundation in addition and subtraction, and she is partway through MUS Gamma (in single-digit multiplication). Dd has a tendency toward Eeyore-ism. Gloom, despair, and agony on me.

Since June we have taken several weeks off our usual school schedule and instead been total lounge lizards some days; other days we have done some colorful math review workbooks, played math games, reading has been entirely free choice, we've done History Pockets Ancient Civs to review the ancient world - and now, we're gearing up for "real" school again. Today, as she did some double-digit addition, she put her head in her hands and cried, telling me how bad she is at math - she'll never be able to do math - her little brother is beating her at math - etc.

I would love some wise advice. How do you revive a floundering Eeyore's spirits? I feel like we take two steps forward, then one or two or three steps back - still battling the confusion and defeated attitude from that blankity-blank curriculum in public school.

[camibami]

Well, crud. I was coming on here to sing the praises of MUS for building confidence. It worked for my DD beautifully.

Do you test her? Maybe stop all tests, do them orally and don't grade them. Praise praise praise. Show her Einstien and Edison's school marks.:D
And just remind her, (and you!) that she is only 9 for gosh sakes, she has the rest of her life to get this! Its a marathon, not a sprint. Is there another curriculum out there that isn't grade-leveled, like MUS, and you can go back to an earlier level and then whiz through? Thats what we did with MUS, and its been so great for math confidence.

I'm not much help. I only know Saxon and MUS. This board has great advice though- I know you'll get some!

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I was this kid. HATED math- until I found out I didn't hate math. It was ARITHMETIC I hated, not math.

[NevadaRabbit]

Do you test her? Maybe stop all tests, do them orally and don't grade them. Praise praise praise. Show her Einstien and Edison's school marks.:D
And just remind her, (and you!) that she is only 9 for gosh sakes, she has the rest of her life to get this! Its a marathon, not a sprint. Is there another curriculum out there that isn't grade-leveled, like MUS, and you can go back to an earlier level and then whiz through? Thats what we did with MUS, and its been so great for math confidence.

Cami, thanks for your thoughts. I agree with you, and basically that's what we did last year. We breezed through a little bits of Alpha: woohoo, this is easy! We worked through Beta with increasingly regular stops for gloom and despair, but she was accurate and capable with it, and was pleased when we started Gamma. I bought a review book that should be very easy but even these double-digit additions brought out the despair.

I don't test, I don't ask her to do speed drills, I don't give any grades or marks - we just re-do any problems she errs on. I don't know how to be less judgmental!

[NevadaRabbit]

I was this kid. HATED math- until I found out I didn't hate math. It was ARITHMETIC I hated, not math.

Understood - and yes, dd hates sitting there doing the practice, but is a deep thinker and grasps the concepts and sometimes surprises me with her leaps of logic. But I'm stuck on the idea that she does need to know how to do the arithmetic - doesn't she??

[Myrtle]

Is she a perfectionist?

[NevadaRabbit]

Is she a perfectionist?

Yes indeedy.

Well, let me qualify that. She doesn't care if her bedroom looks like a tornado went through it. She doesn't care if her writing is "neat". But she practically commits hara-kiri if she makes a mistake or two.

[HollyinNNV]

My daughter, that is. Background: she's almost 10yo, public school K-2, home school last year and starting up our second home school year next week. BIG factor in pulling her out of public school was the math curriculum they used (a spiral "new math" load of hooey, if i may say so). It took all of last year to re-build a solid foundation in addition and subtraction, and she is partway through MUS Gamma (in single-digit multiplication). Dd has a tendency toward Eeyore-ism. Gloom, despair, and agony on me.



My dd (now 14) was like this, too. I don't know how much of this was her personality? But, she really grew out of this around 7th grade. Math has been our focus since about 2nd grade. But all that work (and many different curricula) was worth it. As her CAT scores improved, her attitude improved. She has gone from 55th percentile to 92nd.

That said, we had the whining, tears, frustration and anger. I did a lot of coaching, "We are in this together. I am a member of your team. Your tests are really teacher tests. They show how well I teach." Plus, I had to do a lot of walking away so her attitude didn't destroy mine. "I know you can do it. I am going to do the dishes and then I'll come back in and see how you are doing." I also found things got a lot better when there was another teacher (why we used MUS, TT and now Chalkdust).

When we did MUS, we would get halfway through the first book. Then we would start the second book. We did two lessons a day (one in each book). Because it was remedial, I wanted to move a bit faster.

My dd did not go to PS. So her attitude really had nothing to do with that. But, I often misplaced the blame on myself. It must be something I am doing or not doing. Nah! Conveniently I will take a little credit for her improvement in math and attitude.

And now I have a ds who also hates school and math. Oh joy-Groundhog day. Unfortunately, he has much worse scores than his sister so we have a lot further to get to where I want his scores to be.

Good luck!
I feel for you (and me)!
Holly

[NevadaRabbit]

My dd (now 14) was like this, too. I don't know how much of this was her personality? But, she really grew out of this around 7th grade. Math has been our focus since about 2nd grade. But all that work (and many different curricula) was worth it. As her CAT scores improved, her attitude improved. She has gone from 55th percentile to 92nd.

That said, we had the whining, tears, frustration and anger. I did a lot of coaching, "We are in this together. I am a member of your team. Your tests are really teacher tests. They show how well I teach." Plus, I had to do a lot of walking away so her attitude didn't destroy mine. "I know you can do it. I am going to do the dishes and then I'll come back in and see how you are doing." I also found things got a lot better when there was another teacher (why we used MUS, TT and now Chalkdust).

Holly

Thanks for the great info, Holly. I really appreciate your coaching quote there - I need to do more of that. I tend to get very frustrated when she bursts into tears over 44+23. Sometimes I do have to walk away to either hide my frustration or stop myself from saying something - uh - NOT constructive. It is good to know that you've walked the road and made such progress. There's light at the end of the tunnel. I think.

If you have time - could you tell me more about Chalkdust??

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Understood - and yes, dd hates sitting there doing the practice, but is a deep thinker and grasps the concepts and sometimes surprises me with her leaps of logic. But I'm stuck on the idea that she does need to know how to do the arithmetic - doesn't she??

Sure she needs to know how to do arithmetic, and she will. She'll have to so that she can do math.;) There's a great book dd just got called Secrets of Mental Math by Arthur Benjamin. It's a fun arithmetic. Consumer math is always practical too.

[Tree House Academy]

Honestly, I would let her play math games for awhile and not do work from the book. Let her do things where there is no "pressure" that, to her, seem unscripted and fun. I know TT is "behind" and all, but this may be the kind of child where that doesn't matter. Over the last week or so, I have come to realize that the curriculum that works for your child...and in "works" I mean, they enjoy their time with it and feel successful...may not work for another and vice versa. When you have a child that is struggling with math or feels defeated for some reason or another, the best thing to do is drop back and punt, IMO. Did she enjoy the colorful workbooks? Maybe she is tired of MUS and wants a change? MUS is pretty black and white. I don't know, but it sounds like she needs a change in one way or another.

Best of luck in whatever you do. I have an Eeyore too. :)

[HollyinNNV]

Thanks for the great info, Holly. I really appreciate your coaching quote there - I need to do more of that. I tend to get very frustrated when she bursts into tears over 44+23. Sometimes I do have to walk away to either hide my frustration or stop myself from saying something - uh - NOT constructive. It is good to know that you've walked the road and made such progress. There's light at the end of the tunnel. I think.

If you have time - could you tell me more about Chalkdust??

Chalkdust is a very (IMO) traditional approach to math. The valuable feature of the program is that it is taught by a great teacher, Dana Mosely. The lectures are of varying lengths. I think some of the Algebra I lectures were as long as 45 minutes. I have listened to a few of the lectures and they remind me of the awesome Algebra teacher I had in high school. My dd is an auditory learner and she needs to see and hear the instructions. I think that the youngest level of the program is 6th grade math.

HTH,
Holly

[nancy in nj]

Hi Jill,

I hardly ever post, but I just had to share our story with you and to offer you encouragement and hope. Four years ago, at the end of our 1st year of homeschool (3rd grade) I could have written your post--my daughter had spent 1st & 2nd in public school using Everyday Math. At the end of 2nd grade 6 + 8 = a melt down! This is the same child who was doing 1000 piece jigsaw puzzles since the end of 1st grade.

We spent 3rd grade at home doing both Saxon 3rd grade and Singapore 2nd & 3rd grade. I made it my mission in life to teach my daughter her basic math facts, and it was not pretty...not pretty at all! Skip counting, chanting, flash cards, timed math fact sheets ad nauseum for 2 YEARS. She was way ahead in reading/writing skills so everything else took a backseat to math (meaning we did a lot of read alouds and cool writing assignments and things she would consider FUN to compensate for the 2 hours a day of math misery).

By the end of 4th grade, she had mastered the basics (including reducing fractions, finding common denominators with ease, decimals and percents!), but SHE still BELIEVED that she was horrible at math. The big turning point was giving her the IOWA test at the end of 4th grade just to get a feel for how we were doing. I was a little worried during the first math section when she shouted at me, "Mom, stop the clock we have a big problem here." She was convinced that I had ordered her the wrong test level because this test was ..."obviously the test for 1st or 2nd graders. Look how easy these problems are. This just cannot be the test for 4th graders." LOL! I had to pull out the order form to prove to her that I was correct! I shared the results with her (she scored in the 98th percentile in math), and all of the baggage disappeared overnight!!! She still didn't like math, but she recognized that she was good at it.

Last year (7th grade) we switched to Teaching Textbooks for Algebra I, and math became her favorite subject. "Algebra is not boring math...it is more like solving a puzzle!" We are moving on to a more rigorous program for Algebra II next year (Chalkdust), and she is considering taking the SAT next winter to try to qualify for John Hopkins CTY program, so she has more AP science options for highschool.

Over the last few years, my daughter has thanked me repeatedly for torturing her with those math facts in 3rd and 4th grade. She has often wondered how her friends that were stuck in fuzzy math for 6 years could possibly do prime factorizations or square roots or solve quadratic equations.

For some kids, mastering those math facts is just plain torture even though they get the more complex concepts. Hang in there...keep focusing on it for another year or two..whatever it takes. I promise you...it is so worth it!

Nancy

[nancy in nj]

Hi Jill,

I hardly ever post, but I just had to share our story with you and to offer you encouragement and hope. Four years ago, at the end of our 1st year of homeschool (3rd grade) I could have written your post--my daughter had spent 1st & 2nd in public school using Everyday Math. At the end of 2nd grade 6 + 8 = a melt down! This is the same child who was doing 1000 piece jigsaw puzzles since the end of 1st grade.

We spent 3rd grade at home doing both Saxon 3rd grade and Singapore 2nd & 3rd grade. I made it my mission in life to teach my daughter her basic math facts, and it was not pretty...not pretty at all! Skip counting, chanting, flash cards, timed math fact sheets ad nauseum for 2 YEARS. She was way ahead in reading/writing skills so everything else took a backseat to math (meaning we did a lot of read alouds and cool writing assignments and things she would consider FUN to compensate for the 2 hours a day of math misery).

By the end of 4th grade, she had mastered the basics (including reducing fractions, finding common denominators with ease, decimals and percents!), but SHE still BELIEVED that she was horrible at math. The big turning point was giving her the IOWA test at the end of 4th grade just to get a feel for how we were doing. I was a little worried during the first math section when she shouted at me, "Mom, stop the clock we have a big problem here." She was convinced that I had ordered her the wrong test level because this test was ..."obviously the test for 1st or 2nd graders. Look how easy these problems are. This just cannot be the test for 4th graders." LOL! I had to pull out the order form to prove to her that I was correct! I shared the results with her (she scored in the 98th percentile in math), and all of the baggage disappeared overnight!!! She still didn't like math, but she recognized that she was good at it.

Last year (7th grade) we switched to Teaching Textbooks for Algebra I, and math became her favorite subject. "Algebra is not boring math...it is more like solving a puzzle!" We are moving on to a more rigorous program for Algebra II next year (Chalkdust), and she is considering taking the SAT next winter to try to qualify for John Hopkins CTY program, so she has more AP science options for highschool.

Over the last few years, my daughter has thanked me repeatedly for torturing her with those math facts in 3rd and 4th grade. She has often wondered how her friends that were stuck in fuzzy math for 6 years could possibly do prime factorizations or square roots or solve quadratic equations.

For some kids, mastering those math facts is just plain torture even though they get the more complex concepts. Hang in there...keep focusing on it for another year or two..whatever it takes. I promise you...it is so worth it!

Nancy

[NevadaRabbit]

Hi Jill,

I hardly ever post, but I just had to share our story with you and to offer you encouragement and hope. Four years ago, at the end of our 1st year of homeschool (3rd grade) I could have written your post--my daughter had spent 1st & 2nd in public school using Everyday Math. At the end of 2nd grade 6 + 8 = a melt down! This is the same child who was doing 1000 piece jigsaw puzzles since the end of 1st grade.

Nancy, I'm SO glad you posted. You could indeed have written the post - Everyday Math was our culprit too. Our dd's sound similar. Mine is also a very strong reader, the rest of our subjects are no problem for her, she enjoys tackling tough spelling words and Greek roots and memorization and history, but she becomes a completely different person when math comes out.

I have spent the past year tiptoeing around math, trying to make it palatable, not pressuring her, looking for "fun" math activities - and while she has definitely progressed in her skills, she remains utterly convinced that she is terrible and will never be anything but terrible at math.

I need to spend some time this week praying about whether to continue the tiptoeing approach or do what you did - put other (stronger) subjects in the back seat and really get after this math stuff whether it's pretty or not. I really appreciate your point of view. Thanks so much for sharing!

[NevadaRabbit]

When you have a child that is struggling with math or feels defeated for some reason or another, the best thing to do is drop back and punt, IMO. Did she enjoy the colorful workbooks? Maybe she is tired of MUS and wants a change? MUS is pretty black and white. I don't know, but it sounds like she needs a change in one way or another.

Best of luck in whatever you do. I have an Eeyore too. :)

Aw, man - these Eeyores can just suck the very life out of us, can't they?!

Thanks for your thoughts, Rebecca. I agree. Something has GOT to change. I'm not willing to give up on MUS yet. In contrast to the spiral curriculum that got her so messed up in public school, MUS is low on distractions and does one thing at a time. I think the change needs to come from me (funny - it usually does).

[Violet]

I have not read others posts but I have a book called Teach Your Child Math and it is really fabulous, geared for kids your daughter's age (and younger and older). I think it's out of print but you can look for it on bookfinder. The author is Arthur Benjamin. This book helped my daughter tremendously. I would really, really encourage you to buy this book and play the games in it with her. It will help her with exactly the stuff you are saying she is struggling with.

Best,
Anita

[Violet]

Sure she needs to know how to do arithmetic, and she will. She'll have to so that she can do math.;) There's a great book dd just got called Secrets of Mental Math by Arthur Benjamin. It's a fun arithmetic. Consumer math is always practical too.

I just recommended another book in this thread by Arthur Benjamin. Teach Your Child Math. I didn't put it together that he wrote this one, too. This one is on my wish list at Amazon. I will definitely buy it now! :) I really love the Teach Your Child Math book.

Anita

[Myrtle]

I think you are on the right track by easing up on speed drills. But rather than looking at this as a curriculum issue, I'm thinking that it's a temperament issue. I've had two kids that were uptight about making mistakes in math and with one of them it was because he had a very low tolerance level for frustration and the other thought there was something wrong if she didn't get a problem correct.

My goal at that point was to not worry about making progress in a particular topic...getting all those addition facts down before October or something, but simply to convey to her that it's okay to stop and think as looong as you need to about any given problem. "And you know what? There was a boy who was ten years old that went to the library and saw a neat problem. Do you know how long it took for him to solve it? It took him 30 years! (Andrew Wiles) Math is about sticking with the problem until you can get an answer so if it you spend a long time working on a problem, do you know what? That makes you a really hard worker and good at math."

I would break down problem sets into more manageable and less intimidating chunks. I'd give hints, but not without asking first if she wanted one, and make a mental note of what I needed to reinforce. I'd go through a melodramatic routine (and this wtih both kids) when they'd make perfect scores saying, "But if you got everything right that means you didn't learn anything" If they get something wrong, I get excited and talk about, "Well, let's go over this so that you can learn something in math today." And at the end happily ask, "Tell me what you learned today!" (expecting discussion of the mistakes, not the lesson)

Here was another one of my favorites when they show up all happy they did a worksheet in record time, I'd say "How is this a problem if you solved it so quickly? This wasn't a problem for you. Problems are things that you have to think about to solve." I am not sure how to convey my tone of voice when I say that, it's more playful than serious.

I've taken the mistakes she made from one sheet, rewritten only those mistakes and then had her solve those and then pointed out, "Yesterday you had to think really hard for these problems, but not today!" So that she could see that she makes progress. I've taken out old math from a year ago so that they can see how easy it looks now and said, "And what you are doing now is going to look just that easy. Do you believe that?"

I have been very motivated by Michael Atiyah, a Field's Medalist who said, and I can only paraphrase, he said something like, "There are two ways you can be good at math, one way is to just be smart. The other way is to be dumb, but very, very persistent."

Now, I didn't cure the tears overnight by saying those kinds of things, it took months, and with my older son I still have to give him pep talks, but I think they do "get" the fact that math is not easy and that real math isn't about being trained to react like a human calculator but by sitting down and puzzling through problems, which takes patience.

[strider]

My dd had some similar problems.

In one sense, math will never be great for her, even though she can do math competently. It's just not her thing. (Nor is it my thing!) She excels in other areas, more related to language arts.

In another sense, we were able to make great improvements in her abysmal confidence level doing three things:

--We switched to MUS. The approach fit her well. As she succeeded, I over-praised her progress to make her feel "smart." It worked: even though she doesn't like math, she can approach her homework calmly.

--Math games and some drill to review basics. This has to be constant. Having that quick recall of basic math facts is essential to being able to do more advanced math operations with ease. Doing this review and learning through lotsa lotsa games made the process far more enjoyable AND memorable to dd. I heard a seminar speaker once who recommended reviewing basic math facts and playing math games into high school.

--Tutoring. At one point dd thrived simply by having someone other than me work with her. We found a fabulous tutor who smiles a lot and is very encouraging and who helped dd enormously. I consider it well worth the money spent.

[nancy in nj]

Just wanted to chime back in and clarify that I absolutely agree with Myrtle that math is ultimately about puzzling over problems that are difficult and take time and effort to ponder and solve. I didn't mean to imply in my original post that we spent all of our math time each day just chanting math facts, doing monkey work. In reality this was only about 15 minutes a day of the 2 hours that we spent on math each day--although it felt like 2 hours! We did Saxon and the rote stuff in the morning and then did Singapore math as a separate subject in the afternoon. A good deal of our time was spent puzzling over those challenging Singapore word problems and gently learning how to think things out.

In our case, however, those 2 years in public school pondering fuzzy math problems without having been provided any basic tools or foundation with which to approach the problems absolutely had shattered my daughter's confidence and instilled a dread of math. It would have been very difficult to convince her that math was suppose to be hard when her public school experience had instilled a "math is hard FOR ME because I AM STUPID" mind set. Anytime she got to a basic calculation (say 6 + 8) that she didn't know, it was like a deer in the headlights... melt down, shut down. She could spend 5 or 10 minutes successfully puzzling out how to approach and diagram a challenging word problem without frustration or a meltdown, but ended up in tears because she couldn't recall 6 + 8 to solve the problem. For us, mastering the rote monkey work was critical to removing an obstacle and gaining math confidence so that we could succeed in actually "doing math." Did scoring high on the math section of the IOWA test indicate that my daughter was actually good in math? Absolutely not--the test focused on the rote stuff, not the mathematical thinking. However, scoring high on the test convinced my daughter that she was good in math which made all the difference in the world!

BTW...Myrtle, thank you for your insightful posts on the high school forum about TT math--very helpful!

[NevadaRabbit]

I have not read others posts but I have a book called Teach Your Child Math and it is really fabulous, geared for kids your daughter's age (and younger and older). I think it's out of print but you can look for it on bookfinder. The author is Arthur Benjamin. This book helped my daughter tremendously. I would really, really encourage you to buy this book and play the games in it with her. It will help her with exactly the stuff you are saying she is struggling with.

Best,
Anita

Just placed it on hold at the library! Thank you so much for the recommendation.

[NevadaRabbit]

I think you are on the right track by easing up on speed drills. But rather than looking at this as a curriculum issue, I'm thinking that it's a temperament issue. I've had two kids that were uptight about making mistakes in math and with one of them it was because he had a very low tolerance level for frustration and the other thought there was something wrong if she didn't get a problem correct.

I agree - it's temperament + a deeply engrained but false sense of ineptitude. (Math is the only subject where she's like this.)

My goal at that point was to not worry about making progress in a particular topic...getting all those addition facts down before October or something, but simply to convey to her that it's okay to stop and think as looong as you need to about any given problem. ... I would break down problem sets into more manageable and less intimidating chunks. I'd give hints, but not without asking first if she wanted one, and make a mental note of what I needed to reinforce. I'd go through a melodramatic routine (and this wtih both kids) when they'd make perfect scores saying, "But if you got everything right that means you didn't learn anything" If they get something wrong, I get excited and talk about, "Well, let's go over this so that you can learn something in math today." And at the end happily ask, "Tell me what you learned today!" (expecting discussion of the mistakes, not the lesson)

Here was another one of my favorites when they show up all happy they did a worksheet in record time, I'd say "How is this a problem if you solved it so quickly? This wasn't a problem for you. Problems are things that you have to think about to solve." I am not sure how to convey my tone of voice when I say that, it's more playful than serious.

I've taken the mistakes she made from one sheet, rewritten only those mistakes and then had her solve those and then pointed out, "Yesterday you had to think really hard for these problems, but not today!" So that she could see that she makes progress. I've taken out old math from a year ago so that they can see how easy it looks now and said, "And what you are doing now is going to look just that easy. Do you believe that?"

I have been very motivated by Michael Atiyah, a Field's Medalist who said, and I can only paraphrase, he said something like, "There are two ways you can be good at math, one way is to just be smart. The other way is to be dumb, but very, very persistent."

Now, I didn't cure the tears overnight by saying those kinds of things, it took months, and with my older son I still have to give him pep talks, but I think they do "get" the fact that math is not easy and that real math isn't about being trained to react like a human calculator but by sitting down and puzzling through problems, which takes patience.

That's pure gold, Myrtle, pure gold. Thank you. :001_smile:

[NevadaRabbit]

... I didn't mean to imply in my original post that we spent all of our math time each day just chanting math facts, doing monkey work. In reality this was only about 15 minutes a day of the 2 hours that we spent on math each day--although it felt like 2 hours! We did Saxon and the rote stuff in the morning and then did Singapore math as a separate subject in the afternoon. A good deal of our time was spent puzzling over those challenging Singapore word problems and gently learning how to think things out.

In our case, however, those 2 years in public school pondering fuzzy math problems without having been provided any basic tools or foundation with which to approach the problems absolutely had shattered my daughter's confidence and instilled a dread of math. It would have been very difficult to convince her that math was suppose to be hard when her public school experience had instilled a "math is hard FOR ME because I AM STUPID" mind set. Anytime she got to a basic calculation (say 6 + 8) that she didn't know, it was like a deer in the headlights... melt down, shut down. She could spend 5 or 10 minutes successfully puzzling out how to approach and diagram a challenging word problem without frustration or a meltdown, but ended up in tears because she couldn't recall 6 + 8 to solve the problem. For us, mastering the rote monkey work was critical to removing an obstacle and gaining math confidence so that we could succeed in actually "doing math." Did scoring high on the math section of the IOWA test indicate that my daughter was actually good in math? Absolutely not--the test focused on the rote stuff, not the mathematical thinking. However, scoring high on the test convinced my daughter that she was good in math which made all the difference in the world!

BINGO. I didn't take it that you meant it was all monkey work (hehe love that phrase). What I did take away from your earlier post was that you backed away from trying to make every minute of it fun/easy/no pressure. Not to go too far the other direction either. Press on even when it wasn't exactly fun/easy, because as Myrtle said it is about thinking our way through a problem and if it is all easy it's not learning.

It makes me cry to think about this too much. My dd is a completely different child around our other subjects and studies - but math instantly takes her back to the fuzzy stuff from the old curriculum and BOOM she is right back in that pit. Nancy and Myrtle, you've made me realize it goes further back than just re-building a very poorly built foundation of math facts, and I'm really grateful to you both for hanging in this conversation with me.

[TracyR]

I too have a child like that. My oldest grasps math well and my 2nd daughter wants to be just like that but gets frustrated.
Calvert math has been our culprit. So I'm going to have to take some time and go over math facts again.
I used Saxon math and it worked really well because it did alot of review of math facts over and over again and my 2nd daughter was actually running rings around her older sister at one point.
Not anymore and I get the tears and the " I'm stupid" and " I hate math" and all of that now.

I'm glad to see someone else has taken the nitty gritty approach and put the good subjects on the burner to work on math. It makes me feel less guilty about doing that too now:>) Thanks for sharing.