View Full Version : Well, we'll see how long this lasts . . .
My son gave me a paper tonight that was okay -- but just okay. There's nothing special about it, and it wasn't close to college-level work. It was pretty obvious he was, once again, doing what he thought would get by, but not putting a whole lot of effort into it.
Since I've spent most of my time lately (hasn't everyone?) planning the coming year, it's been occurring to me that I'm the one doing most of the work. I've been keeping the mandatory logs, reminding him of assignments, reviewing books, looking for books, reminding him of assignments, reading, reading, reading, reminding him of assignments, spending the money --
And did I mention that he constantly has to be reminded about what he needs to do? We're doing a light summer school to finish up what he didn't get done for last year, and it's looking like it *still* might not get done!
Since he just turned 16, he can now officially "drop out" if he wants to -- and he knows that. But he's told me that he wants to continue homeschooling because he wants to go to college. He's been telling me that for a couple of years now.
So tonight, with another so-so paper finished, we had a heart to heart talk.
I asked him who he thought he was fooling -- he could do better than this. He said he knows he can do better, he just thought this would be good enough (hard to believe with all the assignments I've had him do-over). Any discussion of his reading or other work is like pulling teeth, or a game of Twenty Questions. He seemed to feel that he could skate and then suddenly "turn it on" when he walks into a college classroom.
So I just told him *I* quit. It's his education, but I'm doing all the work, and there are plenty of other things I'd rather be doing.
Well, he insists he wants to go to college and he's willing to work for it. We'll see. The ball's in his court, now.
So, basically, he's in charge now. I told him I would help him with any questions or problems he has, but he is to make his own schedule and there will be no reminders from me. He has the list of entrance requirements for the college he wants to go to, so he knows what he has to get done.
He told me that even though we weren't planning on doing a full schedule until mid-August, he wants to get started tomorrow making his plans because he realizes he's been goofing off for the past year and needs to get caught up.
If he actually does what he said he will, I'll be thrilled. He's never been too ambitious. I'm really, really hoping that by making his education his responsibility, he'll actually learn some. :D
Plaid Dad
07-22-2008, 08:12 AM
Sounds like you have a good plan! It's frustrating to see kids (not to mention adults) say they want something but not be willing to do what's necessary to get there.
Just a thought, as a Plan B: are there community colleges in your area that allow for dual enrollment? Our local cc has math classes and other subjects meant for high school completion or as remedial courses for students not yet ready for college work. Maybe enrolling in a class or two like that would give him a real sense of what he'll need to succeed in college?
Anyway, good for you for setting a firm boundary. :)
You said "If he actually does what he said he will, I'll be thrilled. He's never been too ambitious. I'm really, really hoping that by making his education his responsibility, he'll actually learn some. :D[/quote]"
I don't want to sound like I'm being hard on you, so if anything comes across that way in this post, please forgive me.
I have a house full of boys that sound similar to yours. What I've realized is that what I see in them, needs to be tempered w/ reminders that they are young men who may not be out to please me or be stellar academic humans. My critical attitude can make or break our relationship (especially when it comes to school).
My dh has been a juvenile probation officer for over 20 years, and his experience in this field has been a great blessing in our family (we have 6 boys..grin). He has learned, by experience, how to make kids self-motivated.
At 16, your son is likely dependent upon you for much of his welfare (i.e food, housing, clothing, etc). If self-motivation is what you are desiring in your son, he can be reminded that he is capable (at 16) to not only quit his education, but to provide for basic life needs. This can be done lovingly and sincerely. After all, we are preparing our dc for skills as adults, right?
I quoted you above, that you would be pleased with him if he met your expectations. Does he know that your are pleased w/ him even if he doesn't meet those expectations?
Again, I do not mean to be critical of you, because my boys get on my last nerve sometimes when I see a lazy, lackluster spirit in them. At times I catch myself complaining and whining at them for their inability to get their butts in gear and clean their rooms, shower, and do quality schoolwork w/o me having to hold their hands.
Does your boy have a relationship w/ his father? Sometimes, I've seen that more prodding and wisdom from a male figure goes a long way. NOt that female knowledge does not, but you get my drift.
Is your son involved in productive extracurricular activities that would motivate him? A job? Church? Other clubs? Does he spend time in front of the t.v., video game box, computer, etc.? For my sons, these types of entertainment zap the life out of 'em. Actually, when they even "think" about those means of activity, it zaps the life out of 'em!
The best motivation for your son at this time will be your smiles, encouraging comments, practical suggestions, accountability when it comes to everyday life skills, and advice and sharing about his future plans. If he knows that his mom thinks he's the best, I think it would be a plus.
Let me tell you, this is one of my everyday struggles. I'm a picky, "educational/academic snob" in every sort of way. Dh tells me that my boys need to know that I respect them as young men, and don't look at them like they are little boys who need their momma's whining.
Blessings to you. I pray you are encouraged. Look at that boy of yours :o). Look how he's grown into a young man.
Blessings,
Camy
Community college would be a great idea!
Sounds like you have a good plan! It's frustrating to see kids (not to mention adults) say they want something but not be willing to do what's necessary to get there.
This is what I'm hoping he'll realize -- if he wants something, he's the one that's going to have to make it happen. So far, he's happy to ask me "Can I do [insert desire here]?"
"I don't know -- can you?"
It usually ends there -- LOL!
Just a thought, as a Plan B: are there community colleges in your area that allow for dual enrollment? Our local cc has math classes and other subjects meant for high school completion or as remedial courses for students not yet ready for college work. Maybe enrolling in a class or two like that would give him a real sense of what he'll need to succeed in college?
We do have a CC, and he was already planning to do his first couple of years there. I don't know if they allow dual enrollment, but that is something I was going to look into. He's already asked me for a "meeting" this morning, and I thought I would mention that to him. The CC is about 35 miles away, so that could cause problems, but they usually offer some of the basic classes through the extension program here at the local high school at night. So if that's something that he wants to do, I'm more than willing to help him accomplish that.
Anyway, good for you for setting a firm boundary. :)
Thanks! :)
ticklbee
07-22-2008, 10:17 AM
So, basically, he's in charge now. I told him I would help him with any questions or problems he has, but he is to make his own schedule and there will be no reminders from me.
Sheesh, I think I would have to gag myself in order to not give any reminders! :)
Good for you for taking a stand though. Your son will benefit greatly from learning responsibility for himself.
You said "If he actually does what he said he will, I'll be thrilled. He's never been too ambitious. I'm really, really hoping that by making his education his responsibility, he'll actually learn some."
I don't want to sound like I'm being hard on you, so if anything comes across that way in this post, please forgive me.
Not a bit of it. If I'm understanding you correctly, you raise some points that I realized I could have addressed in my original post -- but frankly, I was too tired to go back and add them! LOL! We were up pretty late talking about this last night, and now early this morning -- so if I missed your points, please let me know!
At 16, your son is likely dependent upon you for much of his welfare (i.e food, housing, clothing, etc). If self-motivation is what you are desiring in your son, he can be reminded that he is capable (at 16) to not only quit his education, but to provide for basic life needs. This can be done lovingly and sincerely. After all, we are preparing our dc for skills as adults, right?Assuming I'm understanding you correctly, if he does decide he doesn't want to do school work any longer, he will be moving along to the next logical step, i.e., more adult pursuits, if that's what you mean, including supporting himself. :D
I quoted you above, that you would be pleased with him if he met your expectations. Does he know that your are pleased w/ him even if he doesn't meet those expectations? I certainly tried to make that clear last night -- and in our previous conversations about what he might want to do. I've always been adamant that even though my husband and I would like him to go to college, that is entirely his choice. I have wondered if he was just telling us what he thought we wanted to hear -- but he continues to insist that this isn't the case.
College is important to us, yes -- but what is even more important to us is that he finds something he's passionate about and pursues that. And if he doesn't understand that, it sure isn't because I haven't told him often enough. But my concern at this point is that, even though he might have things that he's interested in, he doesn't take the next step, i.e., *doing* something about it. I'm hoping our little "experiment" will help him move along in that direction.
Again, I do not mean to be critical of you, because my boys get on my last nerve sometimes when I see a lazy, lackluster spirit in them. At times I catch myself complaining and whining at them for their inability to get their butts in gear and clean their rooms, shower, and do quality schoolwork w/o me having to hold their hands. You don't sound critical at all!
Oh, I absolutely get frustrated with him, but fortunately that wasn't the case last night. We didn't have an argument -- we had a great discussion (I thought so, anyway -- he might have a different take on it! He is, after all, a teenager! :D) about what he wants and what he's willing to do to accomplish it. I was very encouraged, and I think he was too, and if my original post gave any other impression, that's my fault.
I think it probably sounds like I just threw my hands up and said, "You're on your own, Buddy! Sink or swim!" LOL! No, no, no -- nothing like that. He's just going to have to step up and take more responsibility for his own education, and I will absolutely help him with that. But Micro-Managing Mommy *has* left the building.
Does your boy have a relationship w/ his father? Sometimes, I've seen that more prodding and wisdom from a male figure goes a long way. Not that female knowledge does not, but you get my drift. I do get your drift. He does have a good relationship with his father. Unfortunately, Dad isn't here much -- he's an OTR truck driver, so he's not here most of the time. I wish that wasn't the case, but if wishes were horses, etc., etc. His Taekwondo teacher, though, is a very strong male role model and my son has a lot of respect for him. I'm sure if there's any "prodding" needed that he would be happy to help.
Is your son involved in productive extracurricular activities that would motivate him? A job? Church? Other clubs? Does he spend time in front of the t.v., video game box, computer, etc.? For my sons, these types of entertainment zap the life out of 'em. Actually, when they even "think" about those means of activity, it zaps the life out of 'em! He loves Taekwondo and is very good at it. The bad part about it, though, is that it comes so naturally and easily for him that he doesn't really have to work at it too much. I know it might sound funny that that could be a "bad" thing, but, so far anyway, he hasn't had to really put his head down and work at it.
He does do all the "electronic" stuff, but we still have limits on all of that. It does "zap" him and he'd be a zombie if I didn't put limits on those things. :)
The best motivation for your son at this time will be your smiles, encouraging comments, practical suggestions, accountability when it comes to everyday life skills, and advice and sharing about his future plans. If he knows that his mom thinks he's the best, I think it would be a plus.I think he's amazing, and I *hope* he knows that. I've certainly told him so often enough! I've tried to make clear that, while I'm disappointed in his lack of work ethic, it's only because I know he isn't doing his best work and he's capable of so much if he'll just apply himself (Hum -- where have I heard that before? :D).
I am absolutely ready, willing and able to help him with anything he needs. But I want to make that I'm helping, and not actually doing it for him -- if this makes sense. He really has the ability -- now he just has to do it.
Let me tell you, this is one of my everyday struggles. I'm a picky, "educational/academic snob" in every sort of way. Dh tells me that my boys need to know that I respect them as young men, and don't look at them like they are little boys who need their momma's whining. I think I know what you mean. I really work hard at letting him know that if college isn't what he wants to do, that's fine with me, even though I'm probably a bit of an "academic snob" myself! But I don't feel that college is the be-all-end-all of success -- I'm a firm believer in self-education and following your passion.
Maybe I can give you an example of what I mean. When I was in third grade, I wanted to learn how to play the piano, but there were no lessons in my future. So I borrowed a music book from the school and taught myself how to read music. I didn't tell my Mom what I was doing, and she still tells stories about how surprised she was when she realized what I had done.
In contrast, my son would think, "I want to play the piano." But it wouldn't go any farther than that. I want him to take some initiative and do things on his own. He's got the smarts -- but he doesn't have the drive. I think he'll find a little success suits him. :)
Blessings to you. I pray you are encouraged. Look at that boy of yours :o). Look how he's grown into a young man. I can't believe what a great guy he *is* turning out to be, and it's wonderful to see. I definitely *am* encouraged. :)
Thanks for taking the time to write this wonderful post! And if I didn't "get it" feel free to try again! :lol:
Georgie
07-22-2008, 10:49 AM
Those are some good ideas people posted.
On another note, KarenCiavo (Not sure on the spelling) had posted a book title in another thread. The book was called Boys Adrift: The five factors driving the growing epidemic of unmotivated boys and underachieving young men by: Leonard Sax M.D. Ph.D. I checked it out of my library and it is an interesting read. I'm not saying this is your son, but the book brought up some interesting points. A book that makes me wonder if he might be on track with some of his ideas.
Sheesh, I think I would have to gag myself in order to not give any reminders! :)
Oh, I didn't say it would be *easy*!!!! I'll probably be doing a lot of tongue-biting in the next few weeks! :lol:
Good for you for taking a stand though. Your son will benefit greatly from learning responsibility for himself.
I sure hope so! That's the plan! Thanks! :)
Those are some good ideas people posted.
On another note, KarenCiavo (Not sure on the spelling) had posted a book title in another thread. The book was called Boys Adrift: The five factors driving the growing epidemic of unmotivated boys and underachieving young men by: Leonard Sax M.D. Ph.D. I checked it out of my library and it is an interesting read. I'm not saying this is your son, but the book brought up some interesting points. A book that makes me wonder if he might be on track with some of his ideas.
I didn't see that post -- thanks for mentioning it. I've found it on Amazon.com and it looks great! My library doesn't have it, but I'll be ordering that one.
Thank you!
Kathy in MD
07-22-2008, 11:01 AM
Your ds might surprise you. My 14 yo did. During the last half of June I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks. DS stepped up to the plate and mastered his piano pieces and took himself to his lessons and impressed his instructor. I came home and he started relying on me to drive him. The next lesson he failed every single piece :P
Jean in Newcastle
07-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Since your son is in the planning stage, perhaps you might want to look at a goal setting book with him. "First Things First" is a wonderful book. It helps you take those wishes and make then in clear obtainable goals that he can follow. I am often like your son - I will say or think "Hmmm. I'd like to learn to knit" but it doesn't go farther than that because it all just seems so overwhelming. Being able to sit down an write out goals (the big goals and then the mini goals you need to actually achieve it) really helps me.
Your ds might surprise you. My 14 yo did. During the last half of June I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks. DS stepped up to the plate and mastered his piano pieces and took himself to his lessons and impressed his instructor. I came home and he started relying on me to drive him. The next lesson he failed every single piece :P
:lol:
So, if I stick to my guns, there's hope!
Since your son is in the planning stage, perhaps you might want to look at a goal setting book with him. "First Things First" is a wonderful book. It helps you take those wishes and make then in clear obtainable goals that he can follow.
My library has it! I can pick it up this afternoon -- thank you!
I am often like your son - I will say or think "Hmmm. I'd like to learn to knit" but it doesn't go farther than that because it all just seems so overwhelming. Being able to sit down an write out goals (the big goals and then the mini goals you need to actually achieve it) really helps me.
This is such a good point -- thank for bringing it up. He and I are so different -- I despise schedules and he really seems to need them. I just plunge ahead, but he, like his Dad, wants to "think about it" for awhile -- sometimes a *long* while! This might be just the thing for him. I really appreciate the help!
Perhaps we may have been twins in a past life..LOL...if I ever believed in reincarnation.
If your dh is gone a lot, it is so tough to be the mom of a son!! My dh JUST quit his other 2 jobs. He is now only working one and is home more. The first weekend I felt the difference. My frustration level went way down (especially with my boys).
If your husband is open to it, do you think he would want to make a list of goals to be accomplished by your son during the time he is absent? My dh used to do this for the week. He'd write it on a dry-erase board for the boys to see. We learned one thing very quickly, if we didn't evaluate their work, it didn't get done correctly. Thus, the accountability factor.
Dh worked 3 jobs for 3 years, and it almost did me in.
No wonder you are frustrated! After hearing your response to my post, you sound like a great mom. The only thing I like to remind moms of boys of is the "men and respect" issue. The way we phrase things, the tones we use, all can be interpreted one way or another by our boys. I think if we treat them like men, they may likely meet the expectation.
It's hard though, isn't it?
I'd like to PM you some more info. that I have found very helpful on that, if you don't mind.
Right now things are hectic, but this evening should provide some time for me to do so.
Blessings, Kris.
Camy
Perhaps we may have been twins in a past life..LOL...if I ever believed in reincarnation.
I am so glad to hear that! Sometimes you just want to say, "Did you actually *read* my post?!" My brain was still so fuzzy when I was answering you this morning, I was afraid I was missing your points entirely. I'm so relieved!
If your dh is gone a lot, it is so tough to be the mom of a son!! My dh JUST quit his other 2 jobs. He is now only working one and is home more. The first weekend I felt the difference. My frustration level went way down (especially with my boys).My biggest problem is I don't get enough sleep. I feel like I have to be "on" all the time. I sleep like a rock when Sweetie is home. When I get irritated, I think it's probably 50% teenager and 50% insomnia. :D
If your husband is open to it, do you think he would want to make a list of goals to be accomplished by your son during the time he is absent? My dh used to do this for the week. He'd write it on a dry-erase board for the boys to see. We learned one thing very quickly, if we didn't evaluate their work, it didn't get done correctly. Thus, the accountability factor. He doesn't make a list, but he does give him some things to do while he's gone. So far, so good.
Dh worked 3 jobs for 3 years, and it almost did me in. You've definitely got your work cut out for you, so that's certainly understandable!
No wonder you are frustrated! After hearing your response to my post, you sound like a great mom. I'm just like everyone else -- just trying to do the "best I can with what I got" and hoping I don't mess up too much. :)
But thanks! That was a sweet thing to say.
The only thing I like to remind moms of boys of is the "men and respect" issue. The way we phrase things, the tones we use, all can be interpreted one way or another by our boys. I think if we treat them like men, they may likely meet the expectation.
It's hard though, isn't it? Yes -- very! I'm so much like my mother -- and that is *not* a good thing. I didn't find out until just a few years ago that she even liked me, let alone felt any pride in any of my accomplishments.
My relationship with my son is so different. Lots of hugs and "I love you, Mom!" just because -- I love it.
I probably shouldn't even bring this up because I remember so little about it, but a few years ago I saw something on TV about the rite of passage for boys in a tribe in Africa. The moms took care of them for the first years, but when they reached a certain age, they went into the jungle with Dad on a "camping trip." I can't remember everything that was involved, but basically when they came back home they were "men" and the Dad assumed their education from then on. Hope this makes sense.
I might not have explained it well, but it made sense to me. I think our guys do need strong male role models as they grow up. I mentioned to his Taekwondo teacher a few months ago how hard it was being the "man of the family" and he just told me, "You have no idea what it's like to be a man." He's absolutely right! That's probably why it's so hard. :D
Our new "program" is as much for me as it is for him. I am convinced that his lack of drive and ambition is, at least in part, a direct result of my strong personality. I think that I've probably been giving him mixed signals -- "it's time to grow up and take responsibility" and yet taking on most of that responsibility myself. I'm really hoping that he sees this decision as a sign of my faith in him that he really *can* do it!
I have been *very* lucky in that we are just now, in the past few months, experiencing the initial signs of the "terrible teens" and I take this as another indication that he's ready to step it up.
I'd like to PM you some more info. that I have found very helpful on that, if you don't mind. I'd love it. Thanks for the offer. :)
Right now things are hectic, but this evening should provide some time for me to do so.I can imagine! Have fun, good luck, and I'll talk to you later!
Blessings, Kris.Thank you, Camy -- your input is so welcome and appreciated.
Just a thought, as a Plan B: are there community colleges in your area that allow for dual enrollment? Our local cc has math classes and other subjects meant for high school completion or as remedial courses for students not yet ready for college work. Maybe enrolling in a class or two like that would give him a real sense of what he'll need to succeed in college?
We stopped by the CC Tuesday and though they are in the middle of remodeling the administrative section, the lady we talked to was very nice and very helpful. They do offer dual enrollment. We weren't able to get a lot of detailed information, because the counselor who handles that and, more specifically, the requirements for homeschoolers, was in a meeting. Our CC is very affordable -- for us, at least -- and they do offer a few classes at our local high school at night.
I don't think he's quite ready for that and, more importantly, he doesn't think so, either -- not this year anyway. In my new roll, I was actually able to just ask him what he wanted to do and leave the decision to him without offering any of my own thoughts -- so I know I didn't influence him. Wow! That was hard! :lol:
They do offer a class in basic study skills that I think would benefit him immensely and giving him an idea of what to expect and just exactly what he needs to do. Perhaps in the spring.
At any rate, I am thrilled with his efforts these past few days. He was the one who asked me to take him over to the college and he's done a lot of work planning his next year, as well planning (and actually implementing!) his schedule for the next several weeks to complete the work he hasn't finished yet.
He's done some other things, too, that are pretty big that I won't go into here -- but I am so proud of him!
Pamela H in Texas
07-25-2008, 03:05 AM
Assuming I'm understanding you correctly, if he does decide he doesn't want to do school work any longer, he will be moving along to the next logical step, i.e., more adult pursuits, if that's what you mean, including supporting himself.
Absolutely. You either do school or you work and provide living expenses. There is no free ride. The only exception would be a child doing full time volunteer work or something of that nature. Even still, usually, they could be doing SOME schooling or work and I'd probably encourage at least some of one or the other.
Pamela H in Texas
07-25-2008, 03:14 AM
Your ds might surprise you. My 14 yo did. During the last half of June I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks. DS stepped up to the plate and mastered his piano pieces and took himself to his lessons and impressed his instructor. I came home and he started relying on me to drive him. The next lesson he failed every single piece :P
How do we KEEP this from happening?
When I had my stroke 2 years ago, I really realized how much my son was ready for me to LET him grow a little. He stepped up to the plate in the house and my childcare business BEAUTIFULLY. I was soooooooooooo proud.
In Sept, his sister was hospitalized and he handled what he needed to do. When I was hospitalized in Nov and April, he did the same.
All the time this kid shows me he doesn't need mommy to micro-manage and yet he seems to infantalize himself and *I* certainly don't let him be *grown.* How on earth can we get out of this crazy rut?
I've tried doing lists so he knows what is expected, but that is still me running the show, just with less nagging (a plus there, I'll claim!). I want HIM to say, "this is what is expected and this is how I'll get it done." And that I never have to worry because of course he'll do it or ask for help or we'll discuss why things need altering.
I feel like we only have a few years left and I'm holding him back....
Karen sn
07-25-2008, 05:29 AM
Sounds like you have a good plan! It's frustrating to see kids (not to mention adults) say they want something but not be willing to do what's necessary to get there.
Just a thought, as a Plan B: are there community colleges in your area that allow for dual enrollment? Our local cc has math classes and other subjects meant for high school completion or as remedial courses for students not yet ready for college work. Maybe enrolling in a class or two like that would give him a real sense of what he'll need to succeed in college?
Anyway, good for you for setting a firm boundary. :)
I like the dual enrollment idea. Will do this with dd - in years to come. (Only in 5th grade this coming year!)
Also - you say he can drop out?!?! That's crazy - but if they are not schooled don't they lose their driver's license?
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