What are your thoughts on Teaching Textbooks Math courses? sm

[Allison TX]

I didn't want to hijack the thread below, but I am curious about the placement for TT. My ds is 3rd grade, currently using Horizons, and he seems to place in level 5. :confused: Is that accurate? Do most dc place higher in TT than in traditional programs?

Also, for those of you that have used TT, do you like the program? Do your dc like it? Is the instruction sufficient? Are there enough practice problems? How does it compare to more traditional math programs?

I thought I would wait until junior high to try something like TT, but am really considering it for next year. I would appreciate any thoughts.:)

[Linda in NM]

but I realized that it was not very challenging for him. He didn't need to use the computer CDs, and he was able to complete most lessons in about five minutes. We moved to VideoText Algebra (my son is 13), and I'm finding it a much better fit.

[8FillTheHeart]

[QUOTE=Allison TX;29827]I didn't want to hijack the thread below, but I am curious about the placement for TT. My ds is 3rd grade, currently using Horizons, and he seems to place in level 5. :confused: Is that accurate? Do most dc place higher in TT than in traditional programs?

Also, for those of you that have used TT, do you like the program? Do your dc like it? Is the instruction sufficient? Are there enough practice problems? How does it compare to more traditional math programs[QUOTE]

Last yr when my dd was in 2nd grade (doing Horizons 3), she placed into either TT 6 or 7. (I can't remember exactly anymore) Horizons is NOT that advanced.....it is pretty much on grade level. There is absolutely NO WAY that she could have jumped into Horizons 6! She is definitely on par this yr with working through Horizons 4.

If I were going to use TT, I would contact TT and find out exactly who wrote the textbooks, the specific qualifications of the author(s) (not simply 2 degrees in whatever.....exact degree titles), who reviewed the materials prior to publication and their specific qualifications, what state standards are they meeting, and compare the Standards of Learning (SOLs) and TOCs (table of contents) of equivalent grade level textbooks.

The most significant question is has TT been approved by any State Boards of Education as meeting their SOLs? (not TT's saying they meet them, but has the textbook been reviewed by a state board and approved.) This is key in my opinion for algebra up.

[Pongo]

I have never used Horizons but I have heard it is somewhat advanced so, it makes sense he would place there. I do think children tend to place higher in TT because of the placement tests, I am no expert tho. That was actually one of my concerns for NOT using it. I did not want to have a "fluff" math course for my dd. There has also been a lot of negative comments about TT not being "grade level".

If not for the fact ,that I personally know of a friend who used the upper levels of TT with great results, I may not have given it a second look. She had her son (16) take an advanced math course at the local community college after completing TT. He took his SAT and got a perfect math score and will , most likely be attending MIT this Fall. Yes, he is bright but this is why I decided to look again into TT. I am still not completely sold on it;) which is why I still plan on having my dd complete Singapore. I need her to finish TT to see if it really is what I am looking for. I can say, she loves doing the lessons, the teaching is so easy to understand but we'll have to see.

[Myrtle]

[QUOTE=Allison TX;29827]I didn't want to hijack the thread below, but I am curious about the placement for TT. My ds is 3rd grade, currently using Horizons, and he seems to place in level 5. :confused: Is that accurate? Do most dc place higher in TT than in traditional programs?

Also, for those of you that have used TT, do you like the program? Do your dc like it? Is the instruction sufficient? Are there enough practice problems? How does it compare to more traditional math programs[QUOTE]

Last yr when my dd was in 2nd grade (doing Horizons 3), she placed into either TT 6 or 7. (I can't remember exactly anymore) Horizons is NOT that advanced.....it is pretty much on grade level. There is absolutely NO WAY that she could have jumped into Horizons 6! She is definitely on par this yr with working through Horizons 4.

If I were going to use TT, I would contact TT and find out exactly who wrote the textbooks, the specific qualifications of the author(s) (not simply 2 degrees in whatever.....exact degree titles), who reviewed the materials prior to publication and their specific qualifications, what state standards are they meeting, and compare the Standards of Learning (SOLs) and TOCs (table of contents) of equivalent grade level textbooks.

The most significant question is has TT been approved by any State Boards of Education as meeting their SOLs? (not TT's saying they meet them, but has the textbook been reviewed by a state board and approved.) This is key in my opinion for algebra up.

My husband and I have been discussing the value of comparing placement tests as an evaluation tool for parents wishing to compare programs.

In other words, are the items on a placement test indicative of the topics, depth of topics, and rigor in a particular program? For example, do you think it would be productive to compare the algebra placement test for Saxon (this would be for a student who has completed arithmetic and pre-algbra), Singapore, Horizons, Teaching Textbooks, etc, place them side by side and look at the quality of problems on each and then infer something about the quality of the arithmetic program? While a placement test does not indicate the rigor of the level that the student is placing into, would it indicate the level of rigor the student was exposed to in the program prior to that level?
What about a placement test such as TT 5th grade where there is no prior level offered?

It seems that one problem with this approach is that the parent himself would have to know enough about math to see the mathematical skill and knowledge required to solve a particular class of problems on the tests and they'd have to recognize when the presence of a topic is "superficial" (e.g. fractals in the third grade) vs when it's covered in depth so maybe my solution is circular reasoning. Just thinking aloud.

[hmsch4me]

and seems to be the perfect fit for my 7th grader. Having said that, math has been a difficult subject for her so I chose TT for the style of teaching and layout. It has given her confidence and helped her to grow tremendously this year. Prior to this we used MUS. I have noticed that TT doesn't always go into the depth that other math programs do. For a child that handles math well, I would probably use something else to challenge them a bit more.

My ds tried TT Pre-Alg. last year and went crazy. He couldn't stand the way things were explained (too lengthy) and became very frustrated. We switched to Abeka Pre-Alg. and he is so much happier. He can read the instructions on his own (they aren't too long) and only comes to me when he has trouble.

Two kids, two very different learnging styles. If your child has been doing well in Horizons, I would recommend moving to something like Abeka or continuing with Horizons. If you are looking to switch because your child is struggling, then moving to TT or even MUS might work.

[Sparrows-Song]

Let me first say, ds (12) has struggled a bit with math. We went from Rod and Staff into TT.

Ds LOVED the way TT teaches. I let him do all his TT work on the computer so it let him know immediately when he got a problem wrong. He was actually very happy with TT.

I decided to change when I began hearing that TT isn't as rigorous as other math publishers, and they are on their own scope and sequence, so they don't have to fit in with any other standards for public/private school.
My son was almost finished with TT6th when I had him take an assessment test from another publisher (ChalkDust) and he did not do well on it at all.

My other son in 4th grade took a TT placement test and it said he would have went directly into TT6th. When he took the ChalkDust placement test, however, it showed he was nowhere near ready for "traditional" 6th grade math.

Some people have used TT all the way through highschool and done well with it. I just had serious reservations and decided it wasn't worth it. We went with ChalkDust.


As an aside~~ TT only allows you 2 computer installations with each package. We used both on our home computers, and are now unable to resell it. I called them to check and they will not give me any more verification codes so I can resell it. I was very disappointed in that.

[8FillTheHeart]

My husband and I have been discussing the value of comparing placement tests as an evaluation tool for parents wishing to compare programs.

In other words, are the items on a placement test indicative of the topics, depth of topics, and rigor in a particular program? For example, do you think it would be productive to compare the algebra placement test for Saxon (this would be for a student who has completed arithmetic and pre-algbra), Singapore, Horizons, Teaching Textbooks, etc, place them side by side and look at the quality of problems on each and then infer something about the quality of the arithmetic program? While a placement test does not indicate the rigor of the level that the student is placing into, would it indicate the level of rigor the student was exposed to in the program prior to that level?
What about a placement test such as TT 5th grade where there is no prior level offered?

It seems that one problem with this approach is that the parent himself would have to know enough about math to see the mathematical skill and knowledge required to solve a particular class of problems on the tests and they'd have to recognize when the presence of a topic is "superficial" (e.g. fractals in the third grade) vs when it's covered in depth so maybe my solution is circular reasoning. Just thinking aloud.

I would think a placement test is only indicative of what the publisher expects them to have mastered the prior yr/level. Accurate placement tests would not give only superficial concept questions, but equivalent questions of the concepts covered the prior yr.

Simply understanding a concept (like division) is not an accurate grade level description. For example, being able to complete 10/5 is obviously not an equivalent skill as 624/52895. Elementary level math typically is a constant expansion of difficulty of same concepts.....single digit addition, followed by double, triple, quadrouple, etc.

If a placement test is simply tests the concept and not the complexity than I think the placement test is a worthless tool.

[Chris in CA]

Could I ask if your df had her son on TT's grade level or above, IOW did he use Algebra in 8th or 9th?
thanks so much

[Allison TX]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses. You all have given me a lot to think about, especially in regards to higher level math. I will obviously have to research TT more thoroughly. My 3rd grader is not struggling with Horizons, he is doing great! I just thought that since Horizons only goes through grade 6, I should start thinking about what to do after......and then I discovered that TT has level 4 coming out soon, and that it might be easier to change now as opposed to later.

Also, for those that have used Horizons through level 6, or another program that only goes through the elementary grades, what have you chosen for pre-algebra and up? Thanks!

[Beth in SW WA]

my 5th grader is in TT6 (basic 5th grade math) and my 6th/7th grader did TT7 (basic 6th grade math) in 4 months and is now in CD PreAlg.

I loved TT 6 & 7 for the transition to homeschool. But we will do a more traditional sequence for PreAlg and up. Our local private schools use Prentice Hall and I want my kids operating at that level, appropriate for their age/grade. Since Prentice Hall doesn't have a dvd component, I went w/ CD.

The price of CD PreAlg was $335 but math is not something I want to skimp on. Its like having Dr. Mosely in our living room teaching math. My ds 12 loves it and likes the challenge, explanations and pacing much better than TT. I am glad that both my kids can use the program and I can resell it later for a decent price.

TT has been a great option for us. My mathy dh will ensure the kids are getting what they need to out of their math program, above and beyond the text. BUT we felt the need to supplement TT w/ Singapore CWP. I don't feel we need to do that w/ CD.

I hope this helps. I'd be happy to help in any way if you need more info.

[HollyDay]

I havent been able to read all the posts so forgive me if I am duplicating anything.

My dd tested in TT 7 at the end of Sax 56. She tested very well - in fact it was close to going up a level in TT. I am so glad we kept her in 7. It has been a great but challenging year. She is doing well, but it is an effort for her. IT is not coming easily and she is not" flying through".

TT does seem to have a different scope and sequence. But, so does MUS. Different is not necessarily bad. Look at your long range goals and your state requirments. Are you required to do yearly testing? Are you planning on putting dc in public school soon and want to follow their scope and sequence? IF so, then TT and MUS type programs with a different scope and sequence might not be a good fit for you.

It is a difficult choice, so take your time, look at your goals and options carefully before making a final choice.

[Pongo]

I just called her, she said he did Pre-Alg & Alg I in the same year at 14. She had him take the tests in Alg. I only until he got an 85% and then started him there. The following year he did Alg. II and Geometry at 15. he took the PSAT in October and got a Merit Scholarship. She put him in the local Comm. College and he was able to cover Trig. and Pre-Calc. Then she had him take the SAT and he scorec 2400 on the math. He is currently taking Statistics & Functions and Calculus this semester.
To be quite honest this all sounds like Greek to me, my oldest is only 9 :)
Hope this helps.

[Chris in CA]

You are so sweet to call her, thanks : )
I'm leaving reputation points for you girl!
Chris

[Pongo]

Your sweet, I'm happy I could help!!!!

[godpoetry]

My son did good with horizons 1-5 and then he did saxon , but he struggled with that so we switched to TT7 this year. I am not happy with this curriculum. He is getting good grades, but I do not like the way it is presented. We plan on switching to Chalkdust next year.