Ecclesiastical or Classical Pronunication of Latin...how to decide?

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

How did you all decide? I'm just not sure...:confused:

[cajun.classical]

I learned classical pronunciation as a student of Latin and then learned ecclesiastical when I taught Latin at a classical school. For me, I prefer the sound of ecclesiastical. I'm also very interested in the Living Latin of the Church, that Latin that never died and is still to be heard in Latin Hymns and prayers and even in a Latin mass. I got to hear a Latin mass recently. I'm not Roman Catholic, but it was simply magnificent and beautiful and I was able to understand a surprising amount.

Dorothy Sayers says that ultimately it doesn't matter how you pronounce the Latin because Latin is meant to be read, not spoken. Whichever you chose, I personally didn't find the switch from one to another to be difficult. I think it really is a matter of preference. Of course, college Latin classes will use Classical pronunciation so that may be a consideration for you as well. For my dc, we use ecclesiastical and will introduce Classical pronunciation should the need (and their desire) present itself.

Don't worry. You really can't go wrong with whatever you chose.

[cajun.classical]

One more thing. Check out www.memoriapress.com. They've got some articles on choosing ecclesiastical pronunciation that you may find helpful.

[Debra in CO]

Well, I liked the sound of Ecclesiastical Latin better, and it is just more intuitive. And the program I chose to start with used Ecclesiastical - so the choice was made.

We took a class where they definitely taught Classical, and my 10 year old had no problems at all transitioning to it (though he prefers Eccl.).

What I keep hearing from people is that the difference between the two pronunciations is about the same as the difference between listening to English spoken by a Georgia native and a Boston native. They might giggle a bit at each other's pronunciation, but they certainly can understand each other...

If my kids are looking seriously at taking Latin in college, I'll spend a few weeks in high school focusing on classical pronunciation.

In other words, I don't think it is a huge deal. Not that *I* am an expert by any stretch.

Debra
Mom to five, ages 1-10

[BarbaraL in OK]

I'm currently doubting my choice thanks to the word "facit". Ahem. My 12yo and I have trouble keeping a straight face this week :) Or maybe I need to revisit the pronunciation rules -- should I be using a soft 'c' sound rather than a hard 'k' sound?? That would be a relief, lol.

[Laura Corin]

No - it's meant to be a hard 'k' sound for classical. I find the imperative ('fac') is even harder.

Laura

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

:eek:

LOL

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

I took a peek at the Lingua Angelica list of songs at the MP website. So now I am also wondering, does PL, LC and Henle have things in it pertaining to 'Hail Mary, Hello Queen' like LA does? And is that the norm for ecclesiastical pronunication latin programs?

Golly, I hope I don't sound ignorant! lol :D

[ACinGA]

Whichever you chose, I personally didn't find the switch from one to another to be difficult. I think it really is a matter of preference. Of course, college Latin classes will use Classical pronunciation so that may be a consideration for you as well. For my dc, we use ecclesiastical and will introduce Classical pronunciation should the need (and their desire) present itself.

I am very glad to read this. I have been trying to decide whether we should switch to LCI from LFC for ds8 and changing pronunciation is really the only thing stopping us. I'm not concerned about going from classical to ecclesiastical at this early stage, but I was wondering how difficult it would be for him to move back into classical pronunciation when he gets into hs/college levels.

-Amber

[cajun.classical]

I'm currently doubting my choice thanks to the word "facit". Ahem. My 12yo and I have trouble keeping a straight face this week :) Or maybe I need to revisit the pronunciation rules -- should I be using a soft 'c' sound rather than a hard 'k' sound?? That would be a relief, lol.


lol. I believe the ecclesiastical pronunciation would be a "ch" sound. "Fahcheet"

[cajun.classical]

I took a peek at the Lingua Angelica list of songs at the MP website. So now I am also wondering, does PL, LC and Henle have things in it pertaining to 'Hail Mary, Hello Queen' like LA does? And is that the norm for ecclesiastical pronunication latin programs?

Golly, I hope I don't sound ignorant! lol :D

While you are certainly more likely to find those types of things in an ecclesiastical program--after all it is the Language of the RC Church--but I would not say that it is the norm. I'll have to double check to be sure, but I think there was only the one song on Lingua Angelica that would be troublesome for a Protestant; there could be 2, I can't remember. But the majority of tracks are standard hymns found in most Protestant Hymnals. And in my Protestant church, we even say all the Prayers found in LC, only in English, which was great when we learned them in Latin: my dc already knew the translation and there was a nice context for learning them.

Generally, PL, LC 1 and 2 stay away from anything that isn't ecumenical. They are deliberately trying to appeal to the common Christian heritage of Protestants and Catholics alike. On the other hand, Henle is a Catholic text and the beginning of Henle 1 has some Catholic theology that some Protestants may object to. However, this is only at the beginning and the MP Study Guides clearly mark which exercises a Protestant may want to steer clear of. Memoria Press is definitely NOT trying to push Catholic theology on anyone; they're just trying to teach Latin, and they're trying to be sensitive to Protestants as well.

That said, just because you choose ecclesiastical pronunciation doesn't mean you have to use Henle. Once you learn the pronunciation rules, you can apply it to any book.

Hope that helps.

[Anne in Hawaii]

I don't think it's a huge deal, either -- at least for what my longterm goals for Latin are (for them to be able to read some classics in Latin). As best we can :) , we use ecclesiastical pronunciation, but I've explained to them and given them examples of classical pronunciation so that if they're ever exposed to it they're aware of what's going on.

[Philothea]

For us the choice is simple. We're traditional Catholics, we only go to the Latin Mass. So we are hearing Ecclesiastical Latin every time we go to mass, and it is our missals for us to read, so I think our ears are already tuned for this type of Latin. You would be amazed at how much Latin you can learn at mass.

Our sons have to know their Latin responses to serve mass, and they would have to study Ecclesiastical Latin in seminary as well.


I wouldn't want to know Latin without the hymns!

I'm sure there is no one here who would pick this type of Latin for the same reasons, but I can be happy being the black sheep. :)

[cajun.classical]

How wonderful for you. I think the Latin Mass is truly beautiful and I've been lobbying for Latin as part of our Protestant service! And it is so great that for your family, Latin will always be a living language.

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

For us the choice is simple. We're traditional Catholics, we only go to the Latin Mass. So we are hearing Ecclesiastical Latin every time we go to mass

Wow that is really awesome for your family! :)

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

Angelina,

You are SO helpful! :D

Now I must ponder......

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I sing a lot of classical Latin music, so I chose ecclesiastical. It's what I know, and it's what my kids are most likely to come across in their daily lives.

[elegantlion]

I so appreciate this thread! We are starting Latin next year and I have been pondering this very question today. Thanks for the information, it is very helpful.

[Dana in OR]

our Episcopal church liturgy uses many Latin phrases and I wanted them to correspond to what we were studying. My girls and I get a kick out of actually knowing what the words mean now (we had recited them in prayers for years but did not know exactly what they meant).

Dana

[azmom]

We, too, are traditional Catholics. My ds 8 and ds 6 are learning to be altar servers for the Latin Mass. It really puts learning Latin into perspective.

Kelly

[Philothea]

Kelly,
Whew! I was beginning to think I was the only classical oriented trad. Catholic hs'er in the world, save one friend of mine. :D

[frogpond1]

I took a college course last year using Wheelock's and it used Ecclesiastical pronounciation. I was at that time doing Classical pronounciation, and didn't even switch over. I never had to speak for the class and it didn't make any difference for my grade. I really don't think it matters, and I tend toward Classical when I'm reading and Ecclesiatical if I'm doing songs or prayers.

[Patty Joanna]

This is pretty much what I would say; the differences are not that many or hard to adapt to. My son and I do both, pretty much along FrogPond's description.

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

I've really enjoyed reading everyone's response to why you use the pronunciation that you do. ;)

We have decided, after pondering a few days...to use Classical. :D