Need Grammar Curriculum OR Beating My Head Against the Wall

[Maria/ME]

With all due respect to FLL, which I love...it's just not working for my daughter. I think, but not sure, she needs something a bit more interactive. But not dull. I am so overwhelmed by all the grammar options out there for us. Grammar is not my strong suit, so I need to be able to teach her simply yet engage her.

My dd is 10 if that helps. We're almost finished with FLL, but she doesn't seem to have retained anything. HELP!

I've looked at so many Grammar options. What do you like? Why? Help me narrow it down.

Thanks,

[Kathy in MD]

It's fast and only takes 11 weeks. But because each lesson is reviewed in every succeeding lesson, what is learned sticks with the student. JAG only covers the parts of speech and diagraming. The act of diagraming reinforces the parts of speech. It's interactive for my ds because I'll read the answers and he corrects his own work.

More advanced grammar is covered in AG.

[Sue in St Pete]

Hi Maria,

Dh used LLATL with ds for a few years before I took over with Shurley 5. I think Shurley is good for retention, partially because of the jingles. Although the scripted nature of the program bugged me, it could be very useful if grammar is not your strong suit. I'll paste my review below.

We switched to Analytical Grammar for junior high. I love AG. It is clear and concise. I haven't looked at Junior Analytical Grammar, but it seems to get good reviews as well. I encourage you to take a look at the videos at their website. It's like seeing the program at a curriculum fair. I'll paste my review for AG below as well.

One other suggestion is to take a look at Cathy Duffy's 100 Picks book. It can be helpful to determine your child's learning style, then check that book or her curriculum manual to determine which programs fit her learning style best. Note that AG is probably not in there because she doesn't review everything and it's newer.

Best wishes to you!

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We used Shurley 5 in 5th grade. My husband had used LLATL for 3 years prior to Shurley, but we both felt that our son needed something more rigorous.

Pros:
• Great job of teaching how to label the parts of speech in a sentence
• Question and answer flow great tool for learning parts of speech
• Jingles on CD helped to learn and reinforce parts of speech
• Good retention of parts of speech

Cons:
• Scripted teacher’s material is very wordy
• Writing instruction is inferior
• Vocabulary work useless (looking up words in a dictionary, writing down the definition and using the word in a sentence). Zero retention.
• Subsequent levels are very repetitive

Overall, I was very happy with it. My son did very well and has retained a lot of what he learned with it. However, because of the repetitive nature of subsequent levels, we’ll be using Analytical Grammar for junior high.

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Analytical Grammar website is http://www.analyticalgrammar.com. The videos at the website do a great job of explaining the program. We are using Analytical Grammar for 6th-7th-8th grade. 6th grade has 10 weeks of daily grammar work (parts of speech and diagramming), then review 1x every 2 weeks. 7th grade has 7 weeks of daily grammar work (phrases and clauses), then review 1x every month. 8th grade has 17 weeks of daily grammar work (punctuation) and then you are done. It can be completed in 1 or 2 years as well. We have completed Season 1 and are reviewing the rest of the year.

Pros:
• Clear and concise
• Pick up and go (little to no preparation required from mom)
• Teach lesson on first day of week and student can work on their own for rest of week. Only checking/correcting required from mom.
• Each lesson has a theme (American flag, humorous Johnny Carson story, women & math, Mexican-Americans, Martin Luther King Jr., Jewish Americans, fairy tales, etc.) which makes the lessons more interesting.
• Sentences are much more complex than Shurley grammar
• Novelty of getting a letter grade on test
• Comfort of letter grade for perfectionist mom (ds is missing some but still getting an A)
• Student book turns into a reference manual when you remove student exercises.

Cons:
• None that I have found
• Some say it’s expensive. I spent $120 but will use it over 3 years.

Disclaimer: I have a master’s degree in Operations Research, which is concerned with all things efficiency. Part of the reason I love AG is that it is the most efficient use of my time and my child’s time. This leaves time for other wonderful things like math, history, music, and sports! I suppose if you are a good teacher and you teach grammar year after year after year, you learn to make your lessons more and more efficient. That must be with the author, Robin Finley, did.

[one l michele]

It was high on my list because of the interaction involved.

[Lisawa]

It's fast and only takes 11 weeks. But because each lesson is reviewed in every succeeding lesson, what is learned sticks with the student. JAG only covers the parts of speech and diagraming. The act of diagraming reinforces the parts of speech. It's interactive for my ds because I'll read the answers and he corrects his own work.

More advanced grammar is covered in AG.


Im not adding anything really to what you said... but this was going to be my suggestion... it helps with all learning styles....:)

[Sandy in Indy]

Have you looked at Winston grammar? It's interactive...has cards the kids use.

http://www.winstongrammar.com/

[Sue in St Pete]

how did I happen to post twice?

[Stacia]

www.growingwithgrammar.com (http://www.growingwithgrammar.com)

It is clear and concise. Straightforward. Lessons are presented clearly w/ associated pages in the student workbook. Workbook pages include the new material, plus material previously learned.

[nukeswife]

Growing with Grammar for my 3rd grader after FLL 3 was a bust. He loves, loves, loves it.

I like that it's written to the child so he can read the student text which includes examples and then he does the worksheet. It's to the point with a few graphics here and there but they are in black and white and not distracting. I really like the way the lessons are presented and you can't beat the price. It cost me $34 for the 3rd grade set and that is with the shipping cost.

I also like that the lady that wrote the program wrote it specifically with homeschoolers in mind and wrote a program that can be used by anyone regardless of their faith background (we're secular hsers so that was a big plus for us) She is also very quick to answer email if you have questions.

I can't wait to use the grade 1 and 2 set for my dd next year. My son now looks forward to grammar each day.

[Carol in Cal.]

If I had a 10YO who was not retaining grammar, I would get the 4th grade book and TE and start from the very beginning.

I would use the TE's description of the review that the teacher should do at the beginning of every lesson. That is interactive, and it really cements the material. I would also do the oral review with your child.

Then I would review the directions for the written work, and have her do that on her own, and then check it at the end of the day.

I would consider whether or not to skip the writing assignments, which at that level are about once per week. If you have another writing program, you might not want to do the RS writing. I usually look those over and at least review the principle that each one is teaching, but I don't have DD do all of them. If you skip the writing, you can get through the book faster.

I would also suggest that you establish a basic analysis technique that becomes your backbone for figuring out grammar. Have your DD memorize the 8 parts of speech, the noun jobs, the definitions of the the parts of speech, etc. Also, have her memorize a sequence that you ALWAYS follow together when you are parsing a sentence. Ours is that first you find the verb or verb phrase, then the subject. Then, depending on the type of verb, you check to see whether there is a direct object (action verb) or a predicate nominative or predicate adjective (state of being verb). Once you have determined that, you find the adjectives and adverbs, and figure out what they modify. Then you look at what is left--maybe a prepositional phrase or two? If so, is it acting as an adverb or an adjective? Maybe an apositive? Maybe an interjection? About 2-4 times per month, write or find some sentences to analyze together in this way. Start simple, and work your way up. That way you are providing the review, and making your DD interact with the material away from the book itself. I have found this to be very effective, and my DD now considers herself pretty good at grammar, which was most decidedly not the case at first.

[Audrey]

Another fan here -- I very highly recommend Growing with Grammar. It's wonderful for us.

[training5]

I also highly suggest looking at Growing with Grammar. Love it here. My kids HATED Rod and Staff because of all the copying out. I have looked at Winston grammar before. I did not feel it had enough practice but that is just me. Have you looked at Calvert School's 4th grade grammar CD? It is set up as a game. Haven't used it myself, though.

[training5]

I also highly suggest looking at Growing with Grammar. Love it here. My kids HATED Rod and Staff because of all the copying out. We found the religious content to be distracting from the rule they were to be learning, as well. GWG is direct and to the point. But you will need a separate writing program if you use it.
I have looked at Winston grammar before. I did not feel it had enough practice but that is just me. Have you looked at Calvert School's 4th grade grammar CD? It is set up as a game. Haven't used it myself, though.

[Maria/ME]

Wow. Thanks to all for your replies.

I've reviewed the programs each of you has mentioned. I think I've eliminated Shurley, Winston and Growing with Grammar. There are elements in each that I don't feel will work for us. I like the idea of Rod/Staff, but I was looking for more of a secular approach. I like the intensity of RS and the detail at each level. It looks easily modified for secular approach, too.

I listened to Erin's video description of JAG. Wow. What she said really struck me. I essentially believe in "delaying" certain subjects and she reitterates to my mind the need to not get so uptight about grammar. That my child (especially at my daughters lower reading level) is eating up words, ideas and growing in reading,that grammar will naturally come after those things have been mastered. I am leaning towards JAG for that reason.

Meanwhile, if anyone else has input on this thread I would appreciate that too. I will hopefully be ordering something next week!

Thanks again for the fast responses. I can always count on this board!:)

[Sue G in PA]

Grammar is his favorite subject now whereas a few months ago he dreaded it (we were using R&S). Workbook format really appeals to him (who doesn't like to write a lot).

[Debbie in London]

Although it sounds like you might have already eliminated it, both of my boys (6 & 11) love GWG.

Debbie

[Maria/ME]

Well, I dont know, with all these rave reviews I better rethink it!

[debbiec]

We used it for 5 years, grammar not being one of my faves, mostly because I forgot a lot of the particulars. It was the original recommendation in 1st edition TWTM. I liked the fact that it was in a workbook, with clear lessons and lots of preprinted pages for practice. My son did very well with it, though he thought it was boring to work out of a workbook (the only one we ever used). But, I have to say, it has really stuck with him well. I know there are always new (or newly discovered)things on the market that become the "in" things to try. But this was a very inexpensive and straight forward grammar program with lots of practice.

Just a thought ~

[debbiec]

OK, this is not a secular program, so it can be ruled out ~ missed that part, sorry.

[Karie]

It is easy to use, my ds has used in independently this year (semi last year). It's quick and to the point and retention has been high. I think you should take a look at it again! I can't say enough good things about it. We'll be starting level 5 this fall.