So, 17yods got in a fight at school and 15yodd got the lecture.

[PrairieAir]

Yup. Ds got in the fight. Got suspended for 5 days. His sister got the lecture. He got a "Eh, probably coulda handled that differently." One of the guys made a lewd comment to her in an IM. She says it was a joke. We say, you don't let people joke like that and think it's okay. It's not okay. Ds says he has warned this kid about "joking" with and about his sister like that before and the guy doesn't seem to care. So, ds got into it with him at school.

I can't really be too mad at ds. Dh says he would have done the same. Dd is mad at her brother. We gave her a serious lecture about why she should not allow people to speak to her that way and why it is beyond just an inappropriate sexual joke. She's now mad at us for being more upset with her than ds.

Yeah, I get it. He's cute. He's popular. He's really not such a bad kid. She likes him. She doesn't want her brother to chase all potential boyfriends away. (He doesn't.) He still needs to be kept in check. She still needs to let boys know that they had better treat her with due respect. She needs to realize that the less respect she demands, the less she will get. And that can be dangerous. We let her know that we expect *her*, not her brother, to let boys (or anyone) know they can't treat her disrespectfully.

No, this is not reason 1,509 why you should homeschool. It could happen anywhere. It's an important lesson.

Teenagers are just so danged much fun!:rolleyes:

[Claire]

I have a 17yo girl in public high school. She is a junior this year. To be honest, and admittedly I don't know the details of the IM, you might want to rethink some of the reactions here. We have made adjustments in how we address this kind of thing since dd entered public school in 9th grade. The culture there makes many things that are not acceptable to us at home acceptable there. We talk to dd about where to draw the line, but we let her draw the line. She is the one who has to live in that culture on a daily basis. We offer her guidelines, we offer her our opinions (ad nauseum, I'm afraid), but in the end she makes the decisions about acceptability. As for your son, the school has a responsibility to keep students there safe. IMO, your son over-reacted. In our home, I'm afraid the son would be getting more of a lecture than the daughter.

I hope I haven't been controversial here. It's just that we would have looked at this entirely differently, I think.

[Sandy in Indy]

I think your reaction is entirely appropriate...of course, ds shouldn't be in a fight and he's suffering the consequences of that. And I'm sure you're not happy with him.

I, too, would be VERY concerned about your dd's reaction. The fact that she is in ps should have nothing to do with it. An inappropriate remark is inappropriate, period. Don't let her become desensitized to this kind of thing!

[Shannon]

I, too, think your reaction is appropriate. I have just started reading a book called [U]Hold On To Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers[U] by Gordon Neufeld and I think it would be an interesting read for parents of teenagers. Kids often allow things to be said/done to them in order to fit in, but that doesn't make it ok.

Shannon

[PrairieAir]

That's fine. I do understand your point of view, Claire. You haven't been the least bit controversial:)

Did ds over-react? Yes, he did. I wish he would have handled it differently. He knows that. He has been suspended. We did not argue the suspension. The vice principal had a lengthy discussion with ds and then called dh. He was sympathetic to ds' reason for fighting. The other boy is bigger than ds, it was a fair fight, no one was hurt badly, and ds would not have just beaten him mercilessly even if he could have, so the issue of the school protecting kids isn't such an issue. And again, we did not argue the suspension one bit, nor are we angry with the school or the other boy.

Believe me, we are not the type of parents to be shocked by the things that are said and done in most public schools. In fact, I'm not shocked by what the IM said. We're also not the type of people who believe everything that men should be sued for an occasional inappropriate joke or whistle.

If it had been one remark, that wouldn't have been so bad. However, ds says this is a pattern with this kid. He said he has warned him about it several times. He is in the same school and in the same group of friends. He knows what is acceptable and unacceptable among them. We know these kids well. We know they curse and make crude jokes. Hey, we remember being teenagers, and we also know that the things we joke about and find funny in our house would make many homeschoolers cringe. We trust ds' instincts on this one, even if we don't agree with his methods.

Although this isn't a bad kid, he is a teenage boy who would try to cross the line physically if dd continued to let him think it was okay. Dh and I both feel that this is the sort of thing that progresses, that it has been progressing, and that dd should have drawn the line much sooner. BUT she likes him. We want her to know that it is not okay to let him get away with increasingly unacceptable behavior just so he will like her. She needs to have more respect for herself than that.

This is an issue we've had to address in regard to another boy, too. It hasn't escalated to the point of anything physical, but frankly, she is allowing these two boys to treat her like trash because they are two of the cuter, more popular boys. She did not have that problem with another boy earlier this year, but the attraction wasn't as strong for her there.

Dd isn't being punished either. She just got a very serious talking to. I hope she will pay attention to what we've said. Her big brother graduates this year and he may not be around to stick up for her. She will have to know how to draw the line and think about the messages that she is sending by her own behavior and acceptance of other people's behavior.

[GothicGyrl]

Sorry--you did absolutely everything I would have done. When my oldest was in PS, she had one girl who used to pick on her daily over her name (my DD shares a famous name and is related to said person)... we told her repeatedly, "ignore her, walk away, tell someone" ad naseum.

She DID all of that and came home with ripped out hair and a black eye one day. I asked her what happened and she said she had told on the girl and the PE coach WATCHED as this girl beat my DD up because "she deserved for tattle taling". I told DD that she is to march into that school and if she does it again, beat the living hell out of the girl and let them call me.

I'm sure some will disagree with this, but there is only so much "asking" one can do. If you keep crossing that line, you bet you are going to finally get what you deserve---and this girl finally got it.

So I get called in to the Asst. Principal's office. Now, I have to tell this part of it because UNfortunately, it is part of the story. The other girl was black. The Asst. Principal and the PE coach were black. I was flat out told by the Asst. that my DD will be suspended and nothing will happen to the other girl.

I went batguano on her. I told her that will NOT happen and if anything, BOTH girls will get suspend and the teacher WILL get reprimanded. If that does not happen and she insists on suspending JUST my child and not the other child nor the teacher--my voice WILL get heard.

In the end, no one got anything, sad to say. Of course, the year following I pulled her out to homeschool.

I refuse to back down from a bully. If your boy did everything remotely possible to keep this creep away from your DD and the IM was the straw that broke his back, then so be it. KUDOS to him for defending his sister.

And yes, I would have done exactly as you did and had a nice long talk with my DD about everything you spoke of--how this other boy was inappropriate in every way.

[Cadam]

I would have done the same thing. I know it's not ok for everyone and I understand the other pov, really I do. However, while I don't want my kids starting a fight I sure want them to finish the fight. I have seen to many kids get picked on to long because adults told them not to fight. That's just not fair is it? In the end a well placed fist might have stopped the bully near the beginning. I hope I manage to teach my kids to defend themselves and their family.

[Kris]

I agree with the way you handled it, too. "Walk away" and "don't fight" only go so far. Sometimes, a bloody nose is the only thing a bully will understand.

When my son was in elementary school, he was constantly being hassled by some high school kids on the bus. One day, apparently, one of the boys was in the process of bashing my son's head against the metal rail on the seat and my son whipped around and crunched him in the nose. When he came home, he was a bloody mess -- but it was the other kid's blood. He never had a problem with that boy after that.

He didn't start the fight, but he finished it. And after the word got out, he rarely had to defend himself again.

Words will only get you so far with some people, unfortunately.

[RoughCollie]

PrairieAir, I think you handled the situation just right.

RC