OH MY GOSH!!! I'm speechless re: LOST!!! nt

[Holly in FL]

d

[Ohio12]

I am in a puddle on the floor

[Holly in FL]

How are we going to be able to wait for next season??????????????

[Ohio12]

Just like we always do....in agony!

[Liza Q]

Oh, oh, oh...

It hasn't finished airing on the West Coast, has it?

:ack2:

I want to talk about it!

I'll be back in the morning.

Wow, that was the best one yet, I think!

[Elisabeth in IL]

So much to think about and rewatch!!! I want answers....answers about the Island.

[elegantlion]

So many answers, so many questions! I cried for being happy, I cried for being sad. That was so gut wrenching. I can't sleep now.

[Tap, tap, tap]

Lalallaaaaaaaa laaa laa (me sticking fingers in ears) I'm not listening! But I do love spoilers, so go a head and dish! No don't, stop don't spoil it! (Yeah....go ahead) :Angel_anim:

[Robin in Tx]

I had a lot of trouble keeping up with everything, and I can't find my stinkin' glasses so missed a few details! ACK!

Who was it that the Asian woman (sorry, forgot her name) approached, saying "we were both there, call me when you're ready to talk about it." I couldn't recognize him without my glasses.

Was that Locke in the coffin?

Who is Jeremy?

[Audrey]

Okay, somebody better start posting detailed summaries of the episode. :D

I swear... you gals! I don't even watch this show, but your excitement has me soooooo intrigued.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I wasn't able to watch the first hour re-air of last week's show. Could someone tell me about the additional material that aired? I know it was an extended press conference...

[Dawn E]

Sun approached Charles Widmore. He and Ben are in some sort of battle. He's also the father of Desmond's girlfriend, Penny. Supposedly he is responsible for the plane full of people in the fake Oceanic liner found under the water. He also sent the militia guys from the boat after Ben.

When she said, "We weren't the only ones who left the island," she was referring to Ben. She blames Ben for Jin's--her husband--death, and probably means to lead Widmore to him.

[elegantlion]

I wasn't able to watch the first hour re-air of last week's show. Could someone tell me about the additional material that aired? I know it was an extended press conference...

Jack talked about the other survivors. One was Boone, the other Charlie. I think he mentioned someone but I forget. If you watch the show on a regular basis you probably understand about everything that they added. I may have to rewatch it all, I'm confusing what was in the new episode with what was in the repeat.

[jejily]

Oh, my...

I was jumping up and down when the Six (plus 2) reached that yacht... :001_tt1:

And what the heck... I kept thinking "WHO IS JEREMY?!" and when I saw who was in that coffin... HOLY COW!! :ohmy:

Oh my, oh my, oh my...

[KidsHappen]

So many more questions:

So how did John get off the island and how did he die?

I also wonder what happened to Daniel.

Are going to develop Walt's plot line more?

Why do you suppose they picked the people they did to list as having servived the plane crash? Did they have anything in common?

Why did they say Jin died in the crash? How do they explain that Sun is pregnant? She got pregnant one month after getting to the island. I am sure that she is not going to say someone else is the father

And I am pretty sure that we can say Claire is dead. But the six do not know that as they just know she was missing. That means that they are taking quite a chance saying that Kate is the monther.

And Sawyer comes through as the hero yet again. Got to love him!

I am sure that I have more questions but I will have to watch it again and think it through some.

[KidsHappen]

I had a lot of trouble keeping up with everything, and I can't find my stinkin' glasses so missed a few details! ACK!

Who was it that the Asian woman (sorry, forgot her name) approached, saying "we were both there, call me when you're ready to talk about it." I couldn't recognize him without my glasses.

Was that Locke in the coffin?

Who is Jeremy?


Sun was talking to Widmore.

Locke was in the coffin and he is the person that they were calling Jeremy.

[Pencil Pusher]

Oh, my...

I was jumping up and down when the Six (plus 2) reached that yacht... :001_tt1:

And what the heck... I kept thinking "WHO IS JEREMY?!" and when I saw who was in that coffin... HOLY COW!! :ohmy:

Oh my, oh my, oh my...

I had a feeling it was Locke, but I can't put my finger on why....

Something looked "off" about his body, though. Swollen, like Claire.

I think Ben's using Jack. Remember he told Locke that whoever moves the island can never come back? (And he *always* tells the truth, right?) I have a feeling there's some kind of loophole, but he'd have to get all of the 6 together to return. I have a feeling it's only for his own sake, though.

On the one hand, I'm SO not surprised that Locke's in a coffin & Ben's still alive. Otoh...I don't think Locke's dead. But then, I've been hesitant to believe *anyone's* died so far, lol.

Could y'all hear what Sawyer whispered to Kate? I couldn't tell if it was our janky TV or if we weren't supposed to hear it.

What about the Boone/Charlie stuff mentioned above? Was there something in the 7:00 recap that wasn't there last week?

And finally, most importantly--*when* does next season air????? :drool::confused1::crying::crying:(:auto: Are we there yet?)

[KidsHappen]

Jack talked about the other survivors. One was Boone, the other Charlie. I think he mentioned someone but I forget. If you watch the show on a regular basis you probably understand about everything that they added. I may have to rewatch it all, I'm confusing what was in the new episode with what was in the repeat.


Libby was the other person they mentioned.

[KidsHappen]

I had a feeling it was Locke, but I can't put my finger on why....

Something looked "off" about his body, though.

Could y'all hear what Sawyer whispered to Kate? I couldn't tell if it was our janky TV or if we weren't supposed to hear it.

What about the Boone/Charlie stuff mentioned above? Was there something in the 7:00 recap that wasn't there last week?

(:auto: Are we there yet?)

Yes, he did look swollen but I think that is a realistic portrayal of how a dead body looks.

I am pretty sure that Sawyer asked her to do whatever it was she did for him in the episode where Jack got mad. I think that it has something to do with his dd.

On the recap, they added a clip where they said that the other people who survived the crash we Boone, Charlie and Libby. ALthough that would equal more than eight which is how many they said survived the crash. Maybe someone else has more info on this.

[Mama Lynx]

I wasn't able to watch tonight, but my dh and best friend kept texting me things like "Holy s***!" with no further explanation.

Unfair!!

[Pencil Pusher]

Yes, he did look swollen but I think that is a realistic portrayal of how a dead body looks.

Sure. I agree. But...I'm suspicious. :lol:


I am pretty sure that Sawyer asked her to do whatever it was she did for him in the episode where Jack got mad. I think that it has something to do with his dd.

Well, I figured that it was whatever she did for him in the other episode, but I was wondering what it is. (If we're supposed to know???)

As far as Sawyer's dd--I don't think he knows, does he?

[KidsHappen]

Well, I figured that it was whatever she did for him in the other episode, but I was wondering what it is. (If we're supposed to know???)

As far as Sawyer's dd--I don't think he knows, does he?

I don't think that we are supposed to know yet.

Yes, he does know because he sent money to her mother when he was in prison. I know that he knows her name is Clementine.

[KidsHappen]

I am so busy tomorrow but I probably won't sleep tonight. I didn't fall asleep until 5:30 this morning. Insomnia stricks again.

[Pencil Pusher]

I don't think that we are supposed to know yet.

Yes, he does know because he sent money to her mother when he was in prison. I know that he knows her name is Clementine.

OH!! You're right! Oh my goodness. I bet you're right about the favor being about his dd, then. Oooooh.

[genie]

On the recap, they added a clip where they said that the other people who survived the crash we Boone, Charlie and Libby. Although that would equal more than eight which is how many they said survived the crash. Maybe someone else has more info on this.

Eight survived the crash: Sayid, Jack, Kate, Sun, Hurley, Boone, Libby, and Charlie. The three died after the crash, and then Aaron was born.

Wowswers what an episode! It is still all swirly in my brain... the following comments are very disjointed, but here are some of my thoughts.

I was thinking that Jack and Sun's dad were the two she blamed, since Jack made the comment to Ben that Sun blames him. I'm not sure what she has up her sleeve in contacting Widmore, though.

I was SOOOO happy to see Penny and Desmond reunite!!!

As far as Sun getting pregnant on/off the island and Jin being dead, apparently not as much time has passed (or would it be more time has passed), since they think Kate would have been 5 months pregnant when she was caught by the agent, yet Claire was much farther along than that. And they are saying Aaron is, what, six weeks old, when he is really eight. Some kind of crazy time thing.

And Christian on the boat!! What's up with that!

Oh, and that was cool that Hurley was playing chess with Mr. Ekko. I miss him!

So when will this season come out on DVD's??? I hope they don't wait until Christmas time again! I guess it will probably be a few weeks before the next season starts. :glare:

Oh well. I need to get some sleep. If I can. :D

[KidsHappen]

Eight survived the crash: Sayid, Jack, Kate, Sun, Hurley, Boone, Libby, and Charlie. The three died after the crash, and then Aaron was born.

As far as Sun getting pregnant on/off the island and Jin being dead, apparently not as much time has passed (or would it be more time has passed), since they think Kate would have been 5 months pregnant when she was caught by the agent, yet Claire was much farther along than that. And they are saying Aaron is, what, six weeks old, when he is really eight. Some kind of crazy time thing.

:D

Oh yeah. I keep forgetting that Aaron was actually a seperate person on the plane.

Claire was 7 months pregnant when they crashed and it was supposed to be three months so Aaron should be about five weeks old. Do we have an actual birthdate for him?

They said Kate was 6 months pregnant when the agent got her and that Aaron was five weeks old. Since they crashed three months ago if Aaron was really her baby he should just now be being born. If he is supposedly five weeks old that means he would have to have been born a month early.

In any case, Aaron is a huge baby. He looks like he is five months old. I don't think that is intentional though just the constraints of working with babies.

Same with Sun. She supposedly got pregnant a month after getting there so if her baby is born on time they would have to say her baby is a month early.

I don't know if the pregnancy timelines are supposed to be that complicated (if it is an important part of the show) or if they are just trying to jugle the plotlines.

[Dawn E]

And Christian on the boat!! What's up with that!


I don't think that Michael or Jin died on the boat. I do believe that we will see them again. Christian appeared after Michael heard those whispery sounds. I don't know what those sounds mean exactly, though people seem to appear from nowhere after them. I think Christian took Michael wherever he took Claire. As far as Jin goes, I just refuse to believe that he is dead. If I refuse to believe it, that means it isn't so, right? :001_smile:

[genie]

Claire was 7 months pregnant when they crashed and it was supposed to be three months so Aaron should be about five weeks old. Do we have an actual birthdate for him?

According to Lostpedia's timeline, he was born on Nov 1.


In any case, Aaron is a huge baby. He looks like he is five months old.

And I can't help but be distracted while watching the show by the thought of "What they heck are they feeding that baby since Claire disappeared?!?!"

[genie]

I don't think that Michael or Jin died on the boat.

I think death is a very relative term on this show! :) Who knows who will show up again, or how, or why. Are they real or not? So many questions...

[Parabola]

I think Ben's using Jack. Remember he told Locke that whoever moves the island can never come back? (And he *always* tells the truth, right?) I have a feeling there's some kind of loophole, but he'd have to get all of the 6 together to return. I have a feeling it's only for his own sake, though.

I agree, I think Ben has his own plans, he NEVER acts altruistically, so he's got to gain something here. Maybe he wants back to the island?


I was thinking that Jack and Sun's dad were the two she blamed, since Jack made the comment to Ben that Sun blames him. I'm not sure what she has up her sleeve in contacting Widmore, though.


And Christian on the boat!! What's up with that!

Oh, and that was cool that Hurley was playing chess with Mr. Ekko. I miss him!
I miss Mr Eko too, I hope we see him again like we do other deads.
I also think, judging from what Jack said, that he is the other one Sun blames. On the other hand, maybe what Jack said is just a red herring from the writers and she really does blame Ben so she's siding with Widmore in an attempt to get revenge on Ben. In which case, the rest of them are going to have a hard time getting her back to the island. She looks like a tough little mama now.


I don't think that Michael or Jin died on the boat. I do believe that we will see them again. Christian appeared after Michael heard those whispery sounds. I don't know what those sounds mean exactly, though people seem to appear from nowhere after them. I think Christian took Michael wherever he took Claire. As far as Jin goes, I just refuse to believe that he is dead. If I refuse to believe it, that means it isn't so, right? :001_smile:

I think they're both dead. Christian told Michael he could go now, I took it to mean that the island was releasing him, and he could die now.

And I can't help but be distracted while watching the show by the thought of "What they heck are they feeding that baby since Claire disappeared?!?!"
I had the exact same thought, DH and I had a conversation about that. Its been quite a while since Claire died or disappeared, what the heck they feedin that baby???? No wonder he looked grumpy when Hurley grabbed him onto the raft.

And what the heck... I kept thinking "WHO IS JEREMY?!" and when I saw who was in that coffin... HOLY COW!! :ohmy:

Oh my, oh my, oh my...

I had at least a million guesses leading up to that reveal....who was in the coffin??? The person's last name was BENtham so I did kinda lean toward it being Ben, that would've been cool if Ben was talking to Jack while Ben was also in the coffin. Instead its Locke, and now we have MONTHS to try to figure that one out. I wonder if he got off the same way Ben did.


The people on the raft, Faraday and whoever else was on it (anybody know who else?), I assume they went with the island when it moved??? And OMG wasn't that a goosebump moment when it DID disappear. I got chills.

Good show. I have no idea how I'm going to survive until season 5.

[Miss Peregrine]

I thought for sure that at the last moment they would fade to black before we go to see who was in the coffin.

And I, too kept thinking about how happy Aaron was without food. A week on the yacht? What on earth did they feed him? :confused:

[Mrs Mungo]

And I can't help but be distracted while watching the show by the thought of "What they heck are they feeding that baby since Claire disappeared?!?!"

THAT was driving me crazy too!!!!

And I think Michael *is* dead since Jack's dad appeared and told him he could go. I'm not convinced Jin is dead though. And what about the people in the Zodiac?

AND I KNEW it was Locke in the coffin all along!

[Liza Q]

:iagree: about the feeding of the baby - I kept commenting on it! I watched it with my daughters, 2 of their friends and my husband and I was the only one bothered by it. Maybe it is a Mom thing!

I also agree with those who think that Jack is the one Sun blames.

Another thing - Sun must know that helping Mr. Widmore will likely lead to hurting Desmond and Penny. I just can't see her not being sympathetic so she must have a really good reason for doing it. I hope.

And another thing! About the people on the little boat - how can Sayid and Jack be totally sure that they were the only survivors when they know that there was that boat with, what, 5 survivors and Daniel? While I am thinking that the boat may have been close enough to the island to have moved with it (I figure that they would have been on their way back to the island since they must have seen the explosion), who knows?

Poor Juliet - with a sad Dharma bottle of rum. Poor Sawyer - not knowing if Kate was alive or not.

My girls and their friends all were annoyed at Kate - kissing Sawyer and then *loving* Jack just a year or so later, but I can see it.

Was not expecting Locke in that coffin! The whole fake name thing had - still has! - me confused. I mean, why call him that? Just because Locke is using a pseudonym doesn't meant that the other survivors would use it amonst themselves. Weird.

And we still don't know Libby's last name! I wonder if that is significant.

Oh, I am going to miss Lost :(

[lynn]

What is it about lost that is so very intriguing? I didn't get to watch but I want to know everything. I guess I'll be able to watch the episode via internet. EEEGADs this show gives me high bloodpressure. Who would have thunk up "let's make everyone who watches it nuts, so they keep coming back" "Give out just enough info but never enough" But hey it works.

[Karenciavo]

I also agree with those who think that Jack is the one Sun blames.
I think so too and I'm glad, she should blame him. He's weak and self-centered. But again, maybe Locke told her that Ben deliberately killed Keamy and that's what caused the ship to explode.

Another thing - Sun must know that helping Mr. Widmore will likely lead to hurting Desmond and Penny. I just can't see her not being sympathetic so she must have a really good reason for doing it. I hope.
I think she's a woman on a mission and she has tunnel vision. She grew up the daughter of a mobster (IMHO) and she is seeking revenge.

[jejily]

...

Was not expecting Locke in that coffin! The whole fake name thing had - still has! - me confused. I mean, why call him that? Just because Locke is using a pseudonym doesn't meant that the other survivors would use it amonst themselves. Weird.



:iagree: It doesn't make any sense that THEY would call him Jeremy. ??? Why would they do that? Why wouldn't they just call him Locke, no matter what pseudonym he was using?

[elegantlion]

Has anyone checked out www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com (http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com) yet?

[Holly in FL]

Yes, I'm wondering what happened to that raft, also.

~Holly

[genie]

Oh! And what's the deal with Miles and Charlotte talking about her being "back" on the island, and about her finding where she was born?? Was I hearing that right? (Boy do I miss having cable with dvr and rewind abilities!!!)

[CalicoKat]

What about the people in the gray raft that were on their way to the boat?

-- are they off the island? and where?
-- did they get sucked back onto the island?
-- are they still floating aimlessly on the high seas?

And Charlotte. Was she born on the island? How old is she anyway?

Isn't Christian dead? If he appeared to Michael then I would assume that Michael is dead too, Claire is probably dead and the other person who saw him, John Locke, is now dead. Whoever sees Christian then dies?! So Christian is more like a ghost who turns other people into ghosts?

I still don't think Jin died. He was near the end of the boat and I think that he got blown into the water. He's on the island. He time travels. And he "came" to the hospital when Sun gave birth--only she still thinks he died.

I agree. Ben never does anything for anyone but Ben. He tricked Locke somehow into being the one who never gets to return to the island. But how, when, all those details will be several episodes next season I'm sure.
must. go. back. to. packing - 24 hrs to go. . . . :auto:

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Has anyone checked out www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com (http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com) yet?

I hadn't even though of checking it out. My dh and I both said, "did he just say *unpaid* positions?" when we saw the commercial, though.

Off to check it out now!

[genie]

And another thing! About the people on the little boat - how can Sayid and Jack be totally sure that they were the only survivors when they know that there was that boat with, what, 5 survivors and Daniel? While I am thinking that the boat may have been close enough to the island to have moved with it (I figure that they would have been on their way back to the island since they must have seen the explosion), who knows?

I think that is why Jack was careful to name people who had definitely died on the island (as definitely as anyone dies on the island) as the other people who "survived" because he's pretty sure they will never be "found" and ruin his story. Had he named anyone else and they somehow showed up later on, then their story would be blown.

I'm not sure that they really believe they are the only survivors, but they certainly want everyone back home to believe that they are.

Poor Juliet - with a sad Dharma bottle of rum. Poor Sawyer - not knowing if Kate was alive or not.

Oh I know. She has really redeemed herself this season. I wasn't sure if I was ever going to like/trust her, but yeah, I felt terrible seeing her sitting there with her rum and the smoke in the distance. And then Sawyer. Sigh. Just like Captain Jack and Elizabeth Swan on the island with their rum.


Was not expecting Locke in that coffin! The whole fake name thing had - still has! - me confused. I mean, why call him that? Just because Locke is using a pseudonym doesn't meant that the other survivors would use it amonst themselves. Weird.

Yeah, I wondered about that, too. I know some of them were using that name because they were certain they were being watched. But it is still very weird.

Walt looked SO different!

So we know that Ben has "infiltrated" Sayid and now Jack in the flash forwards. I'm guessing next season will be focused on the conflict among the six on going back, and then seeing what exactly went so wrong on the island after they left.

Who is left on the island now? (That we care about)

Sawyer
Juliet
Miles
Charlotte
Locke
Rose
Bernard
Daniel??
The Others
The dead people

Is that it?

[genie]

Isn't Christian dead? If he appeared to Michael then I would assume that Michael is dead too, Claire is probably dead and the other person who saw him, John Locke, is now dead. Whoever sees Christian then dies?! So Christian is more like a ghost who turns other people into ghosts?

But then that would mean Jack has been dead since the very first episode.

I still don't think Jin died. He was near the end of the boat and I think that he got blown into the water. He's on the island. He time travels.

I think this can go either way. I really want him to be alive, but if he were, I think John aka Jeremy would have used that tidbit to lure Sun back to the island. Although I guess Ben and Jack didn't mention him having talked to Sun, so maybe his "accident" occurred before he got the chance.

It seemed like a rather arbitrary "rule" that whoever moves the island can never return. Didn't make much sense to me. And I don't think Ben would be willing to leave the island just to save it if he really believed he couldn't return. He sure seemed irritated with Jacob, though.

And the sky turned purple and made that sound just like when Desmond turned the key. Or was the sound from the numbers not being entered? If Desmond hadn't turned the key, would the island have moved itself then? Was that the purpose of entering the numbers? To keep the island where it was?

No matter how many answers they give us, there's always more questions! What a terrific group of writers!

[Holly in FL]

I think you are a bit confused about Jin time-traveling to the hospital. That episode was a dual episode. Jin's hospital scene was at a different time...before the plane crash...when he worked for Sun's father. They were flipping back and forth between the scene where Jin was trying to buy a Panda for an important business man associated with his father-in-law and Sun giving birth to their son. It was not the same scene playing out.

That was a good episode!

~Holly

[Holly in FL]

Please refresh my memory as to how Sawyer has a daughter. I vaguely remember that!

Thanks!
~Holly

[Holly in FL]

I think he had to use a fake name because he was on the plane. If there were no other survivors...using his real name would wreck the cover-up story.

???

~Holly

[Elisabeth in IL]

I think you are a bit confused about Jin time-traveling to the hospital. That episode was a dual episode. Jin's hospital scene was at a different time...before the plane crash...when he worked for Sun's father. They were flipping back and forth between the scene where Jin was trying to buy a Panda for an important business man associated with his father-in-law and Sun giving birth to their son. It was not the same scene playing out.

Your right but yet I think some of us might be thinking that the Island moved back in time so maybe Jin was able to get off and be at his daughters birth but in a different time dimension or parallel story. It doesn't make sense but we are talking about "Lost". :D

[Parabola]

What about the people in the gray raft that were on their way to the boat?

-- are they off the island? and where?
-- did they get sucked back onto the island?
-- are they still floating aimlessly on the high seas?

And Charlotte. Was she born on the island? How old is she anyway?

Isn't Christian dead? If he appeared to Michael then I would assume that Michael is dead too, Claire is probably dead and the other person who saw him, John Locke, is now dead. Whoever sees Christian then dies?! So Christian is more like a ghost who turns other people into ghosts?

I still don't think Jin died. He was near the end of the boat and I think that he got blown into the water. He's on the island. He time travels. And he "came" to the hospital when Sun gave birth--only she still thinks he died.

I agree. Ben never does anything for anyone but Ben. He tricked Locke somehow into being the one who never gets to return to the island. But how, when, all those details will be several episodes next season I'm sure.
must. go. back. to. packing - 24 hrs to go. . . . :auto:
I;m guessing the ppl on the raft went with the island, because the people in the helicopter didn't see them after the island disappeared. They also didn't see anyone in the water that was on the freighter either. I think Jin is dead.
And that sounds just like Ben to trick Locke like that.
Charlotte may be Annie, except her and Ben have already met, was there any undercurrent between them then? Or maybe she's from Dharma and was born on the island.



It seemed like a rather arbitrary "rule" that whoever moves the island can never return. Didn't make much sense to me. And I don't think Ben would be willing to leave the island just to save it if he really believed he couldn't return. He sure seemed irritated with Jacob, though.

And the sky turned purple and made that sound just like when Desmond turned the key. Or was the sound from the numbers not being entered? If Desmond hadn't turned the key, would the island have moved itself then? Was that the purpose of entering the numbers? To keep the island where it was?

No matter how many answers they give us, there's always more questions! What a terrific group of writers!
I think its a very arbitrary rule too, so it may be another case of Ben being not entirely truthful. And turning a wheel moves the island...I hope they go into an explanation for how that works at some time.
It was just like when Desmond turned the key, which was probably the same thing that began to happen when Desmond almost didn't enter the numbers and crashed their plane, even though we didn't see it. I guess they use the electromagnetic force to move the island, it seems like whatever the wheel does specifically moves moves the island with that force. Whereas without the wheel doing whatever it does, the electromagnetic force is just released unharnessed. Thats how I'm interpreting it anyway. And when Desmond did turn the key, how come no awful things happened other than the sky turning purple and communications being shot? Wasn't he supposed to be saving the world? If no big consequences come from the electromagnetism being released, why all the fuss with entering the numbers? Just to keep communication with the rest of the world possible? No numbers have been entered since the hatch exploded, is the electromagnetism even still there? I would guess it was, so are they not controlling it now without the hatch?

I didn't get enough sleep last night. I think I'm rambling.

[Lisawa]

I don't think that Michael or Jin died on the boat. I do believe that we will see them again. Christian appeared after Michael heard those whispery sounds. I don't know what those sounds mean exactly, though people seem to appear from nowhere after them. I think Christian took Michael wherever he took Claire. As far as Jin goes, I just refuse to believe that he is dead. If I refuse to believe it, that means it isn't so, right? :001_smile:


Im not sure about Michael, but I wonder about Jin too.... in an earlier episode, he was brining a panda to someone in the hospitol.... do you remember that?? That has to play into the "future"somehow.....

Just like earlier when Jack and Kate met outside the airport and talked.... and when Jack went to the funeral home to see... well now we know it was John.....

OH! And what is with the name Jeremy?? Is that because he was supposed to be dead??

I have read a few responses so far, and someone mentioned Ben using Jack... I 100%%%%% agree......

Jack is dealing with pride issues, and being wrong... I can see why.... he didn't believe Locke when he told him a miracle was going to happen.... and that they need to stay.... then in the raft when Hurley was telling what just happened, Jack denied that the Island moved.....

So many mind tricks in this one.... I need to watch it again....

OMGosh!!! It was good.... I hate that the season was cut short and now we have to wait months for the season premer... tarter sauce..

Now I hope this all made sense....

[genie]

Please refresh my memory as to how Sawyer has a daughter. I vaguely remember that!

Thanks!
~Holly

It was with the woman he conned but then actually fell for. (The same woman Kate met who helped her see her mom again.) Then the woman visited Sawyer in prison and told him about his daughter.

[Lisawa]

And I can't help but be distracted while watching the show by the thought of "What they heck are they feeding that baby since Claire disappeared?!?!"

I thought the same thing!

[Parabola]

Please refresh my memory as to how Sawyer has a daughter. I vaguely remember that!

Thanks!
~Holly

Remember Cassie whom he conned to become a conwoman with him, but he was actually conning her for her money the whole time? She had a daughter she claims is his. She visited him once at a prison to tell him so. Sawyer said he didn't believe it but he then gave all his money to a secret account for the girl.

[Lisawa]

Oh! And what's the deal with Miles and Charlotte talking about her being "back" on the island, and about her finding where she was born?? Was I hearing that right? (Boy do I miss having cable with dvr and rewind abilities!!!)


I caught that too! I was thinking this must connect those that came.... the guy with the 'special" powers didnt want to leave either..... and I cant remember his name... but the scientist guy... "new" they would "not" be able to come back.... Im sure this will become part of a new story line for next season....

[genie]

Charlotte may be Annie, except her and Ben have already met, was there any undercurrent between them then? Or maybe she's from Dharma and was born on the island.

The only undercurrent I detected was her shock when Ben revealed that he knew her name and info because he had someone on the freighter. I really don't think she is Annie, although the thought did cross my mind during the conversation with Miles. Do we know for sure than anyone has ever been born on the island before Aaron? Did the problem with women having babies on the island only happen after the "incident" referred to in the orientation tapes?


I think its a very arbitrary rule too, so it may be another case of Ben being not entirely truthful. And turning a wheel moves the island...I hope they go into an explanation for how that works at some time.

Well, Ben did imply that the energy source of the island was a big hamster on a wheel, right? :D


It was just like when Desmond turned the key, which was probably the same thing that began to happen when Desmond almost didn't enter the numbers and crashed their plane, even though we didn't see it. I guess they use the electromagnetic force to move the island, it seems like whatever the wheel does specifically moves moves the island with that force. Whereas without the wheel doing whatever it does, the electromagnetic force is just released unharnessed. Thats how I'm interpreting it anyway. And when Desmond did turn the key, how come no awful things happened other than the sky turning purple and communications being shot? Wasn't he supposed to be saving the world? If no big consequences come from the electromagnetism being released, why all the fuss with entering the numbers? Just to keep communication with the rest of the world possible? No numbers have been entered since the hatch exploded, is the electromagnetism even still there? I would guess it was, so are they not controlling it now without the hatch?

I think if Desmond hadn't turned the key, the entire island may have imploded, but he did turn it, so only the hatch imploded. I think another consequence of the em being released was that, for a moment, it made the island visible to the outside world. (Penny's guys in Antarctica or wherever they were.)

Also, after the sky turned purple, Ben said that the sub wouldn't be able to find its way back. I think the sub was a decoy all along, and that it was NOT how people traveled to and from the island. I think the electromagnetism build up may have been required for opening the portal Ben used to transport people to and from the island.

[Lisawa]

Jack is dealing with pride issues, and being wrong... I can see why.... he didn't believe Locke when he told him a miracle was going to happen.... and that they need to stay.... then in the raft when Hurley was telling what just happened, Jack denied that the Island moved.....




LOl Im responding to my own post.... :D the other thing I noticed and wanted to point out was ... not only did Jack deny that the Island moved when Hurley explained it.... he then quickly told everyone we have to lie as they saw the boat approaching...... John told him he would have to lie..... John also told him if they left.... it would eat away at him and he would want to come back.....

Hes a pill popping, drunk mess.... just as John said.... and many other "truths" John said and came to light... Jack is guilt ridden I'm sure....

[Parabola]

The only undercurrent I detected was her shock when Ben revealed that he knew her name and info because he had someone on the freighter. I really don't think she is Annie, although the thought did cross my mind during the conversation with Miles. Do we know for sure than anyone has ever been born on the island before Aaron? Did the problem with women having babies on the island only happen after the "incident" referred to in the orientation tapes?




Well, Ben did imply that the energy source of the island was a big hamster on a wheel, right? :D



I think if Desmond hadn't turned the key, the entire island may have imploded, but he did turn it, so only the hatch imploded. I think another consequence of the em being released was that, for a moment, it made the island visible to the outside world. (Penny's guys in Antarctica or wherever they were.)

Also, after the sky turned purple, Ben said that the sub wouldn't be able to find its way back. I think the sub was a decoy all along, and that it was NOT how people traveled to and from the island. I think the electromagnetism build up may have been required for opening the portal Ben used to transport people to and from the island.
Heh. Hamster on a wheel. Thats good. :)

The interplay between Ben and Locke is great to watch. So was the interplay between Jack and Sawyer when they went on their last mission together, to get Hurley.

So if Desmond released the em (thanks for that abbreviation, thats a LOOOONG word to type) to keep the island from imploding...then how is there em to fuel the time travel. If it built back up, how come it doesn't need to be controlled this time?

I still think there's a possibility that Charlotte is Annie and the interplay between her and Ben could fit that...or not. I'm not married to this idea, its probably wrong.

[Holly in FL]

Well...now I must waste more time doing some searching on-line!

Smiles!
~Holly

[genie]

Heh. Hamster on a wheel. Thats good. :)

The interplay between Ben and Locke is great to watch. So was the interplay between Jack and Sawyer when they went on their last mission together, to get Hurley.

Yeah, the transfer of personalities between the two has been interesting. Jack just doesn't have the same effect as Sawyer with the "Son of a b!tch", it just doesn't work for him. But Sawyer pulls off a great hero.

So if Desmond released the em (thanks for that abbreviation, thats a LOOOONG word to type) to keep the island from imploding...then how is there em to fuel the time travel. If it built back up, how come it doesn't need to be controlled this time?

Maybe there are two sources for the two different jobs. The source near the hatch allowed people to leave and return to the island. The source near the Orchid allows time travel. Nah. Probably not. And if I were right about the sub being a decoy, then what was the purpose of the Looking Glass? Who knows. Just thinking things through.

I still think there's a possibility that Charlotte is Annie and the interplay between her and Ben could fit that...or not. I'm not married to this idea, its probably wrong.

If so, where did Charlotte get the accent? I really want to see more about Annie, but I just can't twist Charlotte into being her.

Subject change: And what about the visions of dead people? What is that about? I used to think they were created by the island, but now it seems they have their own agenda. Locke aka Bentham wants the O6 to return to the island. But is he in step with Christian / Jacob at that point? Because Claire (who is also in with Christian) appeared in the dream of Kate's telling her NOT to bring Aaron back.

And what is Christian's relationship to Jacob? I know he said he could speak for him, but what/who does that make Jacob?

And what's with all the "J" names. John, Jack, Jacob, Jeremy. Coincidence?

[Holly in FL]

Thank you!
~Holly

[Kay in Cal]

The dates in San Diego are the dates of the Comicon... You know, America's biggest pop culture convention! They probably will have a panel (with the actors, directors, etc) and maybe even some preview material.

http://www.comic-con.org/

Of course, well over 100,000 people go now, and you're going to have to wait in line for a looooong time to get into a hot panel like Lost--and they'll probably take only the first 5,000 or something, since the biggest meeting rooms only hold about that.

[Kay in Cal]

Also... If they ALL have to go back, then doesn't Walt have to go too?

I like that they introduced him again. They pretty much had to remove him from the show when he hit puberty because only a few months passed on the show, but he aged 4 years. Now that "time has passed", his appearance isn't a problem any more. Hopefully he won't keep growing like a weed and will be in the next couple of seasons!

[jejily]

Also... If they ALL have to go back, then doesn't Walt have to go too?




I thought the same thing!!

[genie]

Also... If they ALL have to go back, then doesn't Walt have to go too?



Good point. Locke/Bentham had gone to see him, so that could have been his plan. But would that also mean Desmond, too? I can't see him ever going back, unless Penny went with him. (And that would work well with my theory about Desmond and Penny being Adam and Eve from the cave with time travel involved.)

[Adrianne]

I googled the name Jeremy Bentham and here is what Wikipedia has to say:

Jeremy Bentham was an English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) jurist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurist), philosopher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher), and legal and social reformer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_reform). He was a political radical, and a leading theorist in Anglo-American philosophy of law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_law). He is best known for his advocacy of utilitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism), for the concept of animal rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_rights),[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#cite_note-tq-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#cite_note-stan-1) and his opposition to the idea of natural rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights), with his oft-quoted statement that the idea of such rights is "nonsense upon stilts."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#cite_note-2) He also influenced the development of welfarism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfarism).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham#cite_note-3)


and of course, we know John Locke was a political philosopher.

I love the use of names in the show.......

[Adrianne]

It seemed like a rather arbitrary "rule" that whoever moves the island can never return. Didn't make much sense to me. And I don't think Ben would be willing to leave the island just to save it if he really believed he couldn't return. He sure seemed irritated with Jacob, though.


How would Ben know this unless it happened before? He was not in the shack when John was told to move the island. I have a feeling Widmore is somehow involved here. Maybe this is why Widmore could not find the island?

It sounds like Ben really wants revenge on Widmore, hence leaving the island....

I think the other person Sun blames is Widmore. Why else would she "join forces" with him. She is a very crafty person and I would not put it past her to use Widmore to find the island or Jin and then turn on him.

Of course, finding Locke in the coffin - Yikes! I never thought. It makes me wonder though that the island heals some people Locke and allows others to get sick, Jack and Ben while there. I think somehow this is all related to Locke being in that coffin.

I can't wait until the next season!!!!

[pbjmeyer]

Yes, it was Locke in the coffin. How did he and Ben end up off the island and back in our time dimension? This has to be the most complex show ever written for TV...

[Parabola]

Yes, it was Locke in the coffin. How did he and Ben end up off the island and back in our time dimension? This has to be the most complex show ever written for TV...
Ben got off the island when he moved it, somehow it transported him to that desert. How Locke got off remains a mystery for now.
And yes, you could definitely say its complex!

[Parabola]

Yeah, the transfer of personalities between the two has been interesting. Jack just doesn't have the same effect as Sawyer with the "Son of a b!tch", it just doesn't work for him. But Sawyer pulls off a great hero.



Maybe there are two sources for the two different jobs. The source near the hatch allowed people to leave and return to the island. The source near the Orchid allows time travel. Nah. Probably not. And if I were right about the sub being a decoy, then what was the purpose of the Looking Glass? Who knows. Just thinking things through.



If so, where did Charlotte get the accent? I really want to see more about Annie, but I just can't twist Charlotte into being her.

Subject change: And what about the visions of dead people? What is that about? I used to think they were created by the island, but now it seems they have their own agenda. Locke aka Bentham wants the O6 to return to the island. But is he in step with Christian / Jacob at that point? Because Claire (who is also in with Christian) appeared in the dream of Kate's telling her NOT to bring Aaron back.

And what is Christian's relationship to Jacob? I know he said he could speak for him, but what/who does that make Jacob?

And what's with all the "J" names. John, Jack, Jacob, Jeremy. Coincidence?

Ok, you're right. I officially free the Charlotte is Annie line of thought. If she were Ben's lost love, the story would've went differently.

I think so far as from what we've seen, what Bentham/Locke did and what the island/Jacob want appear to be in step. Apparently Locke made sure they all kept lying and tried to talk them into going back, and that wouldn't be conflicting with what the island wants...would it?

I wonder what Jacob will turn out to be when we meet him.

I don't know why Claire would tell Kate not to bring Aaron back unless it was just a mother worrying about the safey of her child. Maybe in the end Aaron won't go back, he just really needs to be united with and raised by his mother...somehow.

[Parabola]

How would Ben know this unless it happened before? He was not in the shack when John was told to move the island. I have a feeling Widmore is somehow involved here. Maybe this is why Widmore could not find the island?

It sounds like Ben really wants revenge on Widmore, hence leaving the island....

I think the other person Sun blames is Widmore. Why else would she "join forces" with him. She is a very crafty person and I would not put it past her to use Widmore to find the island or Jin and then turn on him.

Of course, finding Locke in the coffin - Yikes! I never thought. It makes me wonder though that the island heals some people Locke and allows others to get sick, Jack and Ben while there. I think somehow this is all related to Locke being in that coffin.

I can't wait until the next season!!!!
I'm not entirely buying that if you're the one that moves the island then you can't go back. It makes no sense. I think it was Ben being "not entirely truthful" again. Manipulating Locke to do what he wanted Locke to do.....

[CalicoKat]

I think you are a bit confused about Jin time-traveling to the hospital. That episode was a dual episode. Jin's hospital scene was at a different time...before the plane crash...when he worked for Sun's father. They were flipping back and forth between the scene where Jin was trying to buy a Panda for an important business man associated with his father-in-law and Sun giving birth to their son. It was not the same scene playing out.

That was a good episode!

~Holly
But Sun called out for Jin during her labor!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I still don't think Jin died. He was near the end of the boat and I think that he got blown into the water. He's on the island. He time travels. And he "came" to the hospital when Sun gave birth--only she still thinks he died.


Your right but yet I think some of us might be thinking that the Island moved back in time so maybe Jin was able to get off and be at his daughters birth but in a different time dimension or parallel story. It doesn't make sense but we are talking about "Lost". :D

Jin did go to the hospital during that episode, but it was made clear that he was there on behalf of Sun's dad (his former employer) to deliver a panda to the new child/grandchild of a Chinese diplomat. As he was leaving he told the nurse he had been married only two months.

As Holly in FL said, that episode had a split timeline. They cut it together to make you think that Jin and Sun's off island story line was a flash forward, but made it clear in the end that Sun's story was a flash forward to when she has the baby with which she is now pregnant and Jin's was a flash back to just after they got married.

I love Lost!

[Parabola]

I just had another thought, several episodes ago when Christian took Claire away from Aaron, I had the same confusion....if Aaron is supposed to be with Claire then why is Christian who is speaking for Jacob seperate them. I remember in the thread here for that episode trying to talk about that.

Now, I see where you are Genie, what Christian is doing seems to be seperate from what the "good guys" are doing. So maybe Christian is NOT from the island/Jacob? Maybe when he says he's speaking for Jacob, maybe somehow he's gained control of Jacob. Then if he's speaking for Jacob, then why would Christian want the island moved?
This is getting way too confusing. What is up with Christian and Claire? They do seem to be working against the island afterall. Maybe. I don't know. :confused:

[KidsHappen]

I think that the purpose of inputting the numbers was to periodically discharge a small amount of EM thereby preventing a build up that would cause the whole world to explode. Turning the failsafe key somehow opened a permanant discharge so that it discharged continuously or it permanantly discharged it and therefore the number did not need to be entered to do it. However, this caused the hatch to implode and the sky turn purple and temporarily disrupted the cloaking and allowed the island to be seen. Not exactly sure why the cloaking continued if the EM had been discharged.

I did not see the purple when the island moved. Just the bright light and the noise and then the ocean moving. I am not sure if it was exactly the same mechanism or something different. Obviously many people were able to come and go from the island before but not sure about Ben after. It seems like he intends to take all of the people back to the island. And it seems that he is leading a hit squad that is protecting the island. Maybe since John died he can resume his rightful place as the leader?

It seems that Sayid and Hurley knew about John but there was no clue that Sun did. If she did not then it seems that she was the only one that did not know. That seems unlikely. Perhaps her conversation with Widmore was some kind of ploy involving going back to the island? That would make Kate the only one firmly opposed to going. Hurley expressed to Jack in an earlier season that the island wanted them to come back. And I think that Charlie may have told him that as well.

Who knows. I am sure that we are still in for lots of twists and turns as the show goes on.

[genie]

But Sun called out for Jin during her labor!

And Jack implied his father was upstairs in a different flash forward. Stress-induced dementia maybe? Are they seeing dead people like Hurley? Except Hurley accepts it more readily, being in a mental institution and all.

Oh, and do we assume that the guy that Sayid killed in the car was one of Widmore's thugs?

And what is Oceanic's role in all this? That Abbadon guy, does he work for Oceanic? Or Widmore? Or does Widmore have something to do with Oceanic? Obviously Oceanic knows the "story" is false, so what is their involvement beyond self-preservation?

[FlockOfSillies]

:scared:

[KidsHappen]

Yes, it was Locke in the coffin. How did he and Ben end up off the island and back in our time dimension? This has to be the most complex show ever written for TV...

When Ben left the island he ended up in the desert where we saw him in an earlier episode. I think that it was in the future when Sayid's wife dies and he recruits Sayid to work for him. That obviously happened before the current time on last night episode. John apparently showed up about a month before that.

[elegantlion]

Did anyone else catch what Desmond said to Jack as they were leaving? He said I'll see you in another lifetime, brother. This was a direct reference to the situation in the stadium a few season ago. As far as I can remember that has never been explained. Perhaps that will be dealt with next year.

[KidsHappen]

I also think, judging from what Jack said, that he is the other one Sun blames. On the other hand, maybe what Jack said is just a red herring from the writers and she really does blame Ben so she's siding with Widmore in an attempt to get revenge on Ben.


I had the exact same thought, DH and I had a conversation about that. Its been quite a while since Claire died or disappeared, what the heck they feedin that baby???? No wonder he looked grumpy when Hurley grabbed him onto the raft.



I think that Jack thinks that Sun blames him but he is not the person that she actually blames. I think that it is Ben that she blames. ANd see my post below as I think that will play into her talk with Widmore and going back to the island.

Yes, I was asking my family out loud how they were feeding the baby last show when Sawyer was toting him around the jungle. And how does Kate explain that she is not breastfeeding. Obviously mothers were not writing the show as they would have thought of this detail.

[genie]

I just had another thought, several episodes ago when Christian took Claire away from Aaron, I had the same confusion....if Aaron is supposed to be with Claire then why is Christian who is speaking for Jacob seperate them. I remember in the thread here for that episode trying to talk about that.

Now, I see where you are Genie, what Christian is doing seems to be seperate from what the "good guys" are doing. So maybe Christian is NOT from the island/Jacob? Maybe when he says he's speaking for Jacob, maybe somehow he's gained control of Jacob. Then if he's speaking for Jacob, then why would Christian want the island moved?
This is getting way too confusing. What is up with Christian and Claire? They do seem to be working against the island afterall. Maybe. I don't know. :confused:

Right! And I questioned that in a previous thread wondering why Libby appeared to be pleading for Michael to NOT do what it seemed like Ben wanted him to do. Whether that was really an apparition of her or just in Michael's imagination.

Maybe Christian does have control of Jacob, and that is why Jacob said "Help me" to John. But John can't see through Christian yet. Christian may want the island moved so that the O6 can't easily come back and help John help Jacob.

That was John/Jeremy's story, right? That things went terribly wrong on the island after O6 left and it moved. Maybe John realized that Christian is a bad guy and he needs the O6's to help him defeat Christian.

And the whole Aaron raised by another, not raised by another conflict is so confusing. If Claire is supposed to raise him, and Christian stopped her from doing that, then again Christian seems bad. If Kate is not supposed to raise him, then why is Claire telling her to basically keep him? Because she's "working" with Christian and he's bad?

Aaron as Moses raised by a Pharaoh (Jack) but to eventually fulfill his legacy of freeing his people. Yet, Jack is also a Moses, who led his people, but due to his own shortcomings, never gets to enter the promised land. Christian being the deceiver, and not a Shepherd at all.

Good stuff!

[genie]

Did anyone else catch what Desmond said to Jack as they were leaving? He said I'll see you in another lifetime, brother. This was a direct reference to the situation in the stadium a few season ago. As far as I can remember that has never been explained. Perhaps that will be dealt with next year.

Actually, didn't Jack say that to Desmond last night? I think it was just a nod to the unexpected prophetical reality of that original statement.

[KidsHappen]

Isn't Christian dead? If he appeared to Michael then I would assume that Michael is dead too, Claire is probably dead and the other person who saw him, John Locke, is now dead. Whoever sees Christian then dies?! So Christian is more like a ghost who turns other people into ghosts?



Yeah, I don't think that this line of reasoning works as we know that Jack, Hurley and Ben all saw Christian and as far as we know they are still alive. Of course, that doesn't mean that they won't die but what would the show be without those three.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I don't get to watch until tonight. This is killing me:glare:.

[WagsWife]

I think you are a bit confused about Jin time-traveling to the hospital. That episode was a dual episode. Jin's hospital scene was at a different time...before the plane crash...when he worked for Sun's father. They were flipping back and forth between the scene where Jin was trying to buy a Panda for an important business man associated with his father-in-law and Sun giving birth to their son. It was not the same scene playing out.

That was a good episode!

~Holly

Exaclty! Sun was flash forwarding, and Jin was flash backing (is that a word?)

[Parabola]

I think that the purpose of inputting the numbers was to periodically discharge a small amount of EM thereby preventing a build up that would cause the whole world to explode. Turning the failsafe key somehow opened a permanant discharge so that it discharged continuously or it permanantly discharged it and therefore the number did not need to be entered to do it. However, this caused the hatch to implode and the sky turn purple and temporarily disrupted the cloaking and allowed the island to be seen. Not exactly sure why the cloaking continued if the EM had been discharged.
Was the Looking Glass Hatch used for this purpose, or was it only for blocking communications on and off the island? And again, if the em has been discharged, what are they powering the time travel with?

And what is Oceanic's role in all this? That Abbadon guy, does he work for Oceanic? Or Widmore? Or does Widmore have something to do with Oceanic? Obviously Oceanic knows the "story" is false, so what is their involvement beyond self-preservation?
I haven't even begun to speculate about the merest possibilites of what Oceanic's role is in all this. It may indeed just be a case of them trying to save their reputation from damage if it became known that the plane "found" in the trench was a fake.

[genie]

I haven't even begun to speculate about the merest possibilites of what Oceanic's role is in all this. It may indeed just be a case of them trying to save their reputation from damage if it became known that the plane "found" in the trench was a fake.

But we do know that there is some link between Oceanic and the Hanso Foundation, right? From a couple of seasons ago? And there is a link between Hanso and Widmore through the auction of the Black Rock journal. And how did anyone get their hands on that if the Black Rock crashed on the island?

[Parabola]

Right! And I questioned that in a previous thread wondering why Libby appeared to be pleading for Michael to NOT do what it seemed like Ben wanted him to do. Whether that was really an apparition of her or just in Michael's imagination.

Maybe Christian does have control of Jacob, and that is why Jacob said "Help me" to John. But John can't see through Christian yet. Christian may want the island moved so that the O6 can't easily come back and help John help Jacob.

That was John/Jeremy's story, right? That things went terribly wrong on the island after O6 left and it moved. Maybe John realized that Christian is a bad guy and he needs the O6's to help him defeat Christian.

And the whole Aaron raised by another, not raised by another conflict is so confusing. If Claire is supposed to raise him, and Christian stopped her from doing that, then again Christian seems bad. If Kate is not supposed to raise him, then why is Claire telling her to basically keep him? Because she's "working" with Christian and he's bad?

Aaron as Moses raised by a Pharaoh (Jack) but to eventually fulfill his legacy of freeing his people. Yet, Jack is also a Moses, who led his people, but due to his own shortcomings, never gets to enter the promised land. Christian being the deceiver, and not a Shepherd at all.

Good stuff!
Oh yes, the "help me"! I think we're on to something! :ohmy:

You were wondering if Libby was an actual havid sent by the island or just a figment from Michael's guilty conscience. I was wondering if Claire was an actual havid sent by ??? or if she was just a figment of Kate's guilty conscience. Both seemed to deliver messages counter to what we would expect. Right? I'm kind of foggy on the Libby one, what was Michael about to do for Ben that Libby cautioned him not to do, I can't remember.

So if Christian is a bad guy, then who exactly is he?? He's not really Christian, that guy is dead. So that would mean there's another powerful supernatural presence in the game. Why is dead (?) Claire on his side?

[Dawn E]

ooooh...how exciting. So many questions, so few answers. Unlike the closer of last season, this one left me very excited about the direction they are going.

I still believe the two people she holds ultimately responsible for Jin's death are her father and Ben, though I wondered if she is joining with Widmore because he is the 2nd person she blames. I am sure that there are hurt feelings between her and both Jack and Kate for not getting Jin off the boat, but I don't thing her vendetta is with either of them.

I think that they have done such an excellent job with character development in this show. Locke for instance is such a great character. He is so full of faith in the island and in his pursuit to save it, yet still so flawed and clueless as a leader. It is not hard to believe that things went horribly wrong with him left in charge. Also, Ben is extremely fascinating. I still don't trust anything he says, but I'm finding myself perplexed regarding his true nature.

I've changed my mind about Michael. Perhaps Christian's words did signal that he was free to die now as he wanted in the first place. I still believe there is hope for Jin. And, yes, death is a very relative term on this island. We are likely to see many "dead" again.

[Parabola]

But we do know that there is some link between Oceanic and the Hanso Foundation, right? From a couple of seasons ago? And there is a link between Hanso and Widmore through the auction of the Black Rock journal. And how did anyone get their hands on that if the Black Rock crashed on the island?
Yeah, its a big tangled mess. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Hanso own or have a controlling interest in Oceanic Airlines? Do we know how Widmore came to find out about the island in the first place?
I think the journal was said to have been found among artifacts from pirates.

On the blast door map, there's also a point labeled Magnus Hanso/Black Rock, I've heard that thats his grave, and that he was captain of the Black Rock. And actually I think there's A LOT of connections between Hanso and the Black Rock.

[genie]

Oh yes, the "help me"! I think we're on to something! :ohmy:

You were wondering if Libby was an actual havid sent by the island or just a figment from Michael's guilty conscience. I was wondering if Claire was an actual havid sent by ??? or if she was just a figment of Kate's guilty conscience. Both seemed to deliver messages counter to what we would expect. Right? I'm kind of foggy on the Libby one, what was Michael about to do for Ben that Libby cautioned him not to do, I can't remember.

So if Christian is a bad guy, then who exactly is he?? He's not really Christian, that guy is dead. So that would mean there's another powerful supernatural presence in the game. Why is dead (?) Claire on his side?

Libby appeared as Michael was about to detonate the explosives on the freighter, which was what Ben had directed him to do. (But then the "Not Yet" flag popped up.)

We haven't ever seen Ben and Christian in the same place. The first time Locke went to the cabin, Christian wasn't there (or wasn't visible) but Jacob was. So that certainly adds to Christian's mysteriousness.

But who is he? I don't know. Does Jacob represent Good (with a capital G) and Christian represent Bad? Back to the black/white symbology of the first season?

And dead (?) Claire is possibly just as deceived as John is by him. Claire wants to believe him because he's her dad. John wants to because he's treating John as if he's special. But could a dead Claire be deceived? Is deception possible beyond life?

[Parabola]

I think that they have done such an excellent job with character development in this show. Locke for instance is such a great character. He is so full of faith in the island and in his pursuit to save it, yet still so flawed and clueless as a leader. It is not hard to believe that things went horribly wrong with him left in charge. Also, Ben is extremely fascinating. I still don't trust anything he says, but I'm finding myself perplexed regarding his true nature.

I love the characters in this show, I agree that the writers have done amazingly well. There are still characters that I can't decide if I even like, four seasons into it. Like Kate. The characters have many many sides and that makes them so real. I like the blurriness of good and bad that shows up in so many of the characters.
And Ben, wow, I love him. He's done some awful truly reprehensible things with no regret, but he is great to watch, and I root for him, yes I do. He keeps things very very interesting.
It will be interesting to see how Locke does now that he's in the leadership position. Aren't the Others such a flock of sheep??? Still waiting on Richard's true role in the whole thing, he's pretty mysterious too.

[genie]

I still believe the two people she holds ultimately responsible for Jin's death are her father and Ben, though I wondered if she is joining with Widmore because he is the 2nd person she blames. I am sure that there are hurt feelings between her and both Jack and Kate for not getting Jin off the boat, but I don't thing her vendetta is with either of them.

Yes, but remember how relieved she was that Jack/Kate/Sayid didn't show up to take the baby to Jin's grave?


I've changed my mind about Michael. Perhaps Christian's words did signal that he was free to die now as he wanted in the first place. I still believe there is hope for Jin. And, yes, death is a very relative term on this island. We are likely to see many "dead" again.

Of course, Hurley mentioned keep Michael safe when he was talking to Walt. He had to know Michael was on the ship that exploded. Was he protecting Walt? Does he not believe Michael is dead? Or does he not believe dead is dead? Or does he really believe he himself is dead?

[KidsHappen]

Was the Looking Glass Hatch used for this purpose, or was it only for blocking communications on and off the island? And again, if the em has been discharged, what are they powering the time travel with?





I think that the whole purpose of the looking glass was to block the communications. I am not sure how that ties in with the other that I was talking about. I will have to give it more thought. My head is spinning at this point. :tongue_smilie:

[KidsHappen]

But now I have so much more info to think about that I am going to have to dtart keeping notes. I just hope that the tie up all the lose ends and give us all the answers before this is over.

[genie]

I think that the whole purpose of the looking glass was to block the communications. I am not sure how that ties in with the other that I was talking about. I will have to give it more thought. My head is spinning at this point. :tongue_smilie:

But the Looking Glass did have a sub docking area. I'm with you on the head spinning! :confused:

[hallmommitor]

Hi! I'm just jumping in to all of the comments & there's ALOT!! I think Sun is contacting Widmore to get his help in getting her back & look for Jin. She may realize by now that even though you think someone has died, they sometimes havent! And she also knows that Widmore was the one heading the big search for the island. Anyway, that's my 2 cents!

[Elisabeth in IL]

Do you think that the actors know what the story is and where it is going or do you think that they are just as lost as we are? :001_smile: Is next year supposed to be the last year of Lost? I thought that I had heard that but I'm not sure. Quite frankly I'm ready for real answers by the end of next season. I love this show but it wears me out. :glare:

[Kat in GA]

Do you think that the actors know what the story is and where it is going or do you think that they are just as lost as we are? :001_smile: Is next year supposed to be the last year of Lost? I thought that I had heard that but I'm not sure. Quite frankly I'm ready for real answers by the end of next season. I love this show but it wears me out. :glare:

I read somewhere that Matthew Fox (Jack) is the only actor that has been clued in on the complete direction/ending of the show. He said that everyone asks him...including the actors...but he's mum on the whole thing.

For how much longer...is it two more years? I think next year is all off the island, and the following year is back to the island...and I think that's all...

[Dawn E]

Yes, but remember how relieved she was that Jack/Kate/Sayid didn't show up to take the baby to Jin's grave?

Yes, I am still confused about just who she blames. She spoke to her father while she was still pregnant, so it was not terribly long after returning from the island. If she had said it at the four years later point, I would speculate that although we didn't hear mention of it, Bentham had visited her and told her of Ben's role in the explosion. Of course, it was also Widmore's men that built the bomb. So, this is just yet another mystery to be solved.


Of course, Hurley mentioned keep Michael safe when he was talking to Walt. He had to know Michael was on the ship that exploded. Was he protecting Walt? Does he not believe Michael is dead? Or does he not believe dead is dead? Or does he really believe he himself is dead?



I think Hurley does think Michael is dead, but didn't want to say that to Walt. Also, though, in his present state, he is pretty confused about what dead really means since he seems to be playing chess with and having conversations with "dead" folks on a regular basis. Who knows, maybe he and Libby have even rekindled their budding romance. :001_smile: Nah, he's too gloomy for that to have happened.

[umarider]

Didn't Ben mention that the island had been moved before? And if so, could it be possible that Widmore was once on the island (a leader?) and that HE moved the island and has been trying to find it ever since? Widmore and Ben both seem very possessive of the island... so does Locke.

And when Locke was told to move the island, it was Christian that told him, not Jacob. Ben just assumed that Locke spoke w/ Jacob. Maybe Christian did it to trick Ben off the island and have John who seems less ruthless in his efforts to protect the island become the leader of the "others". Is Christian working for/with Widmore?

[genie]

Didn't Ben mention that the island had been moved before? And if so, could it be possible that Widmore was once on the island (a leader?) and that HE moved the island and has been trying to find it ever since? Widmore and Ben both seem very possessive of the island... so does Locke.

And when Locke was told to move the island, it was Christian that told him, not Jacob. Ben just assumed that Locke spoke w/ Jacob. Maybe Christian did it to trick Ben off the island and have John who seems less ruthless in his efforts to protect the island become the leader of the "others". Is Christian working for/with Widmore?

Hey, those are some pretty good thoughts! I'm not sure how Christian would have known that Ben would choose not to go in the cabin with Locke.

[disneymom]

Here is another website that is very interesting. http://timelooptheory.com

What do you think?

[Parabola]

Its an interesting theory, very thought out. And just as valid as the next one. There's a lot of conjecture in it though. Many of the things the person uses as part of his theory have not at all been part of the show so far. The details just haven't been presented yet.
However, in general, a general idea of a time loop, and more than one timeline may very well be part of the story.

And like the guy said, to be read for entertainment purposes only. Which it was by me, I like reading theories for this show, there's some good ones out there. As well as some really off the wall ones, though those are kinda slowly petering out as the show moves along and more facts are presented.
Thanks for the link.

And did anyone else sign up for "more information" at the link Paula provided on pg 4 of this thread: http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/ ??

[elegantlion]

And did anyone else sign up for "more information" at the link Paula provided on pg 4 of this thread: http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/ ??

Yes, I've been in an unpaid position for almost 11 years, why not volunteer for another.

[genie]

Yes, I've been in an unpaid position for almost 11 years, why not volunteer for another.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Elisabeth in IL]

Here is another website that is very interesting. http://timelooptheory.com (http://timelooptheory.com/)

What do you think?
Very interesting. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts his theory now that we know that Locke is the one in the coffin not Ben.

[tinkgumby]

However, in general, a general idea of a time loop, and more than one timeline may very well be part of the story.

I agree! Did anyone else notice that Ben said that The Orchid was for moving time AND space? When I watched it, I was just thinking it was moved in space, but reading that Time Loop theory, it looks like it might have moved in time, too! I can't wait for more of this to play out!

[Holly in FL]

Yes, I've been in an unpaid position for almost 11 years, why not volunteer for another.

That's hilarious!!!

~Holly

[Janna]

Didn't Ben mention that the island had been moved before? And if so, could it be possible that Widmore was once on the island (a leader?) and that HE moved the island and has been trying to find it ever since? Widmore and Ben both seem very possessive of the island... so does Locke.

And when Locke was told to move the island, it was Christian that told him, not Jacob. Ben just assumed that Locke spoke w/ Jacob. Maybe Christian did it to trick Ben off the island and have John who seems less ruthless in his efforts to protect the island become the leader of the "others". Is Christian working for/with Widmore?

I loved these thoughts about Widmore having been there once before and moving it and now looking for it. But it makes me wonder about Penny and Desmond then - like perhaps it wasn't an accident that Desmond was there after all. Surely it is no accident that he is involved with the Widmores....

Also, in regards to Locke...if Ben put him "in charge" of the island, or at least "The Others", then isn't it possible that he has been informed of how to leave the island? Ben has left the island many times as leader - remember that in his closet he had that secret room full of passports and other paraphanalia for using different names and whatnot. He knew the exact path to stay on to find the island, he used the submarine etc...so apparently you can leave the island and come back *unless* you move the island. Therefore, it makes me think that Locke isn't really dead. I think he is using another name and has staged his death like Ben has undoubtedly done as well. I'm sure the Others clued John in to how to do this since Ben told him the Other would accept him and tell him everything he wanted to know.

Which leads me to Richard. We have to remember too, that Richard, who doesn't age for some reason, came to Locke when he was a little boy. Locke was chosen since he was a child to be on the island. I really don't think he's dead at all. It's totally staged, and Ben knows it. I think the "we have to bring him with us" doesn't mean Locke is dead at all.

So does anyone know when the next season starts? Are they going to wait until January of 2009 again, or start up in the fall?

[elegantlion]

I loved these thoughts about Widmore having been there once before and moving it and now looking for it. But it makes me wonder about Penny and Desmond then - like perhaps it wasn't an accident that Desmond was there after all. Surely it is no accident that he is involved with the Widmores....



Desmond being on the island was no accident. Remember, Libby let him use her sailboat. I still think Libby was a "mole" and working for Widmore. Whether that plot line will ever get played out who knows? IMO, the sailboat was rigged to crash on the island. Widmore wanted him out of Penny's life.

[Parabola]

I- like perhaps it wasn't an accident that Desmond was there after all.
So does anyone know when the next season starts? Are they going to wait until January of 2009 again, or start up in the fall?
Oh yes, it will be January....its a sad sad thing... :crying: How will we handle the withdrawal??????
And I kinda have my suspicions about Des being on that island as well. We don't know much of anything about Libby, except she was in the same mental institution as Hurley, she's shown up in several others' flashbacks, and she's the one who gave Des the boat, so he could sail around the world and prove himself to Widmore, who went from being aggressively tryinig to keep Des and Penny apart...to easily and willingly giving Desmond Penny's number....did he have plans to remove Desmond already so it didn't matter if they got in touch? IDK, it just seemed odd that he was not only unconcerned that Des wanted to re-connect with Penny, but he actually helped him. HMMMMMM, my radars went off.
But we'll see. Connections connections everywhere...but which ones are important and what do they mean?????

[genie]

I still think Libby was a "mole" and working for Widmore.

So you think Libby gave Desmond the boat for Widmore? Do you also think she was on the airplane as a "mole"?

So then are you thinking that she was also planted in the mental institution with Hurley?

I really don't want to believe that theory. I like Libby too much. :D

[genie]

Oh yes, it will be January....its a sad sad thing... :crying: How will we handle the withdrawal??????

By making this the longest thread in Hive Mind History? :cheers2:


And I kinda have my suspicions about Des being on that island as well.

Okay, spill it sista! We know his life was engineered to some degree by the monk who was in the picture with the antique store woman. What else are you thinking?


...Widmore, who went from being aggressively tryinig to keep Des and Penny apart...to easily and willingly giving Desmond Penny's number....did he have plans to remove Desmond already so it didn't matter if they got in touch? IDK, it just seemed odd that he was not only unconcerned that Des wanted to re-connect with Penny, but he actually helped him. HMMMMMM, my radars went off.


Didn't that happen right after the auction? Could that have had anything to do with it? That he was trying to get Desmond out of there? Of course, he could have given a fake number just as easily. But at that point Penny was pretty mad at Desmond, right? And about to marry? So maybe Widmore figured he didn't have a chance?

Yeah. Who knows. And you know, I can wait until January for the next season, but I really want this season's DVD's out NOW! For previous seasons I recorded all the episodes on my dvr and then burned them to DVD. But we don't have cable any more so I couldn't do that. I really want to rewatch this whole season, but not pay whatever the price is for iTunes or whatever. Hmmm. Are all the episodes still up at ABC.com I wonder??? I might need to go check that out.

[elegantlion]

So you think Libby gave Desmond the boat for Widmore? Do you also think she was on the airplane as a "mole"?

So then are you thinking that she was also planted in the mental institution with Hurley?

I really don't want to believe that theory. I like Libby too much. :D

The fact she was in so many places is just too coincidental. The only other idea is that she might be working for the same dude Naomi was, I forget his name. But as far as we know he didn't have a reason to manipulate Desmond.

On another note, I hate to think that Jin is gone for good, however since Daniel Dae Kim was "arrested in Honolulu on October 25, 2007 for allegedly driving drunk"*, I think its safe to assume he is gone. That has been the kiss of death of the other actors on show. I had forgotten about that until now.

*per imdb.com

[Parabola]

So you think Libby gave Desmond the boat for Widmore? Do you also think she was on the airplane as a "mole"?

So then are you thinking that she was also planted in the mental institution with Hurley?

I really don't want to believe that theory. I like Libby too much. :D

I'm not elegantlion, but she and I posted similarly, so mind if I take a stab too?

I think its possible that Libby gave Des the boat from Widmore. And as it is LOST, I try not to speak in too certain terms. :P
If she was on the plane, and she was a mole, then it could only mean that the crash was deliberate and planned (by someone) which is not something I'm totallly convinced of....again no certainty talk here. :D
And also the problem with this theory is that Desmond accidently crashed their plane, there's no way that could've been predicted by anyone, so at the moment it looks like the crash was unintended so therefore no way Libby could've been a mole....unless she wasn't on the plane but somehow insinuated herself into the survivors a la Ethan and Goodwin.
But again, that just makes it too complicated....another group on the island??? Because Libby wasn't an Other. AND she couldn't be on the island from Widmore because Widmore didn't know where the island was.

Ok, I just effectively talked myself out of that theory.

Thanks.

[genie]

Ok, I just effectively talked myself out of that theory.

Thanks.

Good girl! :p

[genie]

The fact she was in so many places is just too coincidental. The only other idea is that she might be working for the same dude Naomi was, I forget his name. But as far as we know he didn't have a reason to manipulate Desmond.



So what are some of you guys's theories about these somewhat minor characters who keep showing up in flashbacks like Nadia and Libby? Is it a Fate thing, or Widmore? Or the Others? Or do the producers just like the actors so they keep bringing them on?

[Parabola]

By making this the longest thread in Hive Mind History? :cheers2:




Okay, spill it sista! We know his life was engineered to some degree by the monk who was in the picture with the antique store woman. What else are you thinking?




Didn't that happen right after the auction? Could that have had anything to do with it? That he was trying to get Desmond out of there? Of course, he could have given a fake number just as easily. But at that point Penny was pretty mad at Desmond, right? And about to marry? So maybe Widmore figured he didn't have a chance?

Yeah. Who knows. And you know, I can wait until January for the next season, but I really want this season's DVD's out NOW! For previous seasons I recorded all the episodes on my dvr and then burned them to DVD. But we don't have cable any more so I couldn't do that. I really want to rewatch this whole season, but not pay whatever the price is for iTunes or whatever. Hmmm. Are all the episodes still up at ABC.com I wonder??? I might need to go check that out.

Monk who was in the picture with the antique store woman....I remember her...but I don't remember any monks except the ones Des lived and studied with for awhile....what have I missed?? Do enlighten!

I buy the **** seasons on DVD. Thats just all there is to that.

I would think that as much as Widmore disliked Desmond, enough to sacrifice his own daughter's happiness, that he wouldn't be willing to help them connect again if there were the least possibility that she would go back to him. He was very cavalier about it, threw the number at Desmond, which was the RIGHT number. It doesn't fit, unless he knew something, knew that it didn't matter if Des called her.

And yeah, I keep seeing this thread re-awakened..... :) we can't let goooooooooooo :)

[genie]

Monk who was in the picture with the antique store woman....I remember her...but I don't remember any monks except the ones Des lived and studied with for awhile....what have I missed?? Do enlighten!

Yeah, the monk at the monastery where Desmond stayed. Once when Desmond was in his office it showed a picture of the monk with the woman from the antique store. And they were standing in front of the walkway where Desmond first found Faraday. Although that may have been just a setting coincidence. But again, this is LOSt.


I buy the **** seasons on DVD. Thats just all there is to that.

Yeah, me too. I just have this sinking suspicion they won't come out until close to xmas time again. That's TOO long to wait!

And ya know? I was doing okay with the idea of not getting the next season until January. But then I went to your blog and noticed the LOST counter that says 243 days until the next LOST. That's just wrong! (And obviously I haven't been to my own blog lately. :tongue_smilie:) There's something emotionally defeating about seeing that huge of a number on our sweet little counter. :crying:

[Parabola]

The minor characters....hmmmm. In real life, there's no way this many coincidences could ever happen. Ever. Too many connections.

I don't think its Widmore, because I don't think he or anyone could possibly manipulate that many people in that many places for that many years. If you're talking all the minor characters that have re-appeared.

I would have to go with it being more of a fate thing, this just happened, there are these connections between all these people, many of which they are not even aware of. Maybe its got something to do with who ended up on the island, out of the all the worldwide possibilities, but I can't really articulate anything much beyond that.


And thats a bummer about Daniel Dae Kim getting a DUI, I did not know that. If thats not the kiss of death I don't know what is.

[elegantlion]

Monk who was in the picture with the antique store woman....I remember her...but I don't remember any monks except the ones Des lived and studied with for awhile....what have I missed?? Do enlighten!

I buy the **** seasons on DVD. Thats just all there is to that.

I would think that as much as Widmore disliked Desmond, enough to sacrifice his own daughter's happiness, that he wouldn't be willing to help them connect again if there were the least possibility that she would go back to him. He was very cavalier about it, threw the number at Desmond, which was the RIGHT number. It doesn't fit, unless he knew something, knew that it didn't matter if Des called her.

And yeah, I keep seeing this thread re-awakened..... :) we can't let goooooooooooo :)

So how long had the deal between Ben and Widmore been going on? I'm tired, but wasn't there talk during the first season about this being like a game of chess? Maybe Ben's job was to keep Desmond in that bunker pressing the numers for all of eternity? Maybe that's why he didn't care about giving out Penny's whereabouts. He figured Desi would be off on a deserted island for the rest of his life and it wouldn't matter.

Okay, my benadryl is kicking in and my brain is mush. I'm going to :chillpill:

[Parabola]

Yeah, the monk at the monastery where Desmond stayed. Once when Desmond was in his office it showed a picture of the monk with the woman from the antique store. And they were standing in front of the walkway where Desmond first found Faraday. Although that may have been just a setting coincidence. But again, this is LOSt.

D*MN I COMPLETELY MISSED THIS!!! :willy_nilly:

I love finding out new little clues...
That connects Faraday, Desmond, the monks and the lady time cop. LOST easter egg or actual clue....hmmmmmmm

And I don't even want to talk about the number of days. You KNOW the DVDs will come out around xmas.

[genie]

Maybe we will learn more next season since Nadia seems to be in the picture in a more predominate way now.

[genie]

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/0d1/1bc/0d11bc51-6c80-4334-ba2e-3b089cf03ccc

[genie]

http://images.quickblogcast.com/115350-107656/Hawking_goes_to_school.jpg

[elegantlion]

Dang, I'm just going to have to buy the DVD's now and rewatch them. I have season 1. (It's not an addiction, really I can quit anytime). Wouldn't the writers love this thread.

[genie]

It's not an addiction, really I can quit anytime.

Spoken like a true addict. :lol:

[Parabola]

Dang, I'm just going to have to buy the DVD's now and rewatch them. I have season 1. (It's not an addiction, really I can quit anytime). Wouldn't the writers love this thread.

Pffft, I have all the seasons, I re-watch them in order during the hiatuses, I have this season's finale on tape so I can view it several more times, I visit the Lost-tv forums, and I cannot quit. I'm Sheralyn and I'm a lostaholic......

so who's next??? you know the first step is admitting it!!!


BTW, I'm just funnin, Paula. And, I'm pretty sure the writers do read the threads at that forum I mentioned above. If you ever go there, and read a lot, you'll see it.

[genie]

so who's next??? you know the first step is admitting it!!!



There have only been three tv series that I have ever laid down the cash to own on DVD: Buffy, Firefly, and LOST. They are the only shows I can watch over and over and over and enjoy a little more every time. :lurk5:

[Parabola]

My three fave shows EVER would probably be Northern Exposure, Arrested Development....and ummmmm....lets see, I know there was another one I was thinking of....hmmmmmmm??? Show with a plane crash or something......island....maybe I will think of it later. :P

[genie]

I didn't start Northern Exposure from the beginning, which is the only way I like to watch a series. I think I would like that one, though. Maybe I should do the Blockbuster thing. I don't even know anything about Arrested Development. Don't hate me.

[Parabola]

Hate you? LOL....NO ONE knows about Arrested Development. It lasted 3 seasons, each one shorter than the last. The critics really loved it, the public never caught on. It was funny, smart, off-beat, and had a lot of inside jokes. I own that one full series on DVD.

I don't even know if Northern Exposure is on DVD, I've never checked.

I'm kinda the same way with Bufffy though, I didn't realise it was a good show until after it started. I just thought it was going to be silly, so I never watched it. As in I honestly have never seen one single episode of this show, even though many people I know and respect the opinions of, really liked it.

[genie]

Yeah, I actually broke my rule and started watching Buffy on the season 5 finale. I was hooked after that. Bought the previous seasons and caught myself up. Joss Whedon is my hero.