Another tragedy threatens homeschool freedoms

[nestof3]

Proposed changes:

Proposed Home Education Regulations—March 3, 2008

Author:
Office of the State Superintendent of Education
Summary:
The regulations, if adopted, would require parents to:

Have at least a high school diploma;
Annually notify and re-notify;
Instruct daily for the same number of days and hours that the D.C. Public Schools (“DCPS”) must instruct;
Maintain a portfolio of students’ work product that parents must allow DCPS to inspect;
Allow D.C. public school officials to enter their home up to three times per year to discuss the homeschooling program, observe the instruction, and review the portfolio;
Adhere to a vague and subjective standard that is not articulated in the proposed regulation;
Submit evidence that their children have received immunizations and appropriate health and medical services and submit “any other relevant information of any other kind prescribed by the OSSE in its discretion” and
File an undefined assessment.The regulations would also:

Allow the Office of the State Superintendent of Education (“OSSE”) to initiate a remediation plan based on the student’s portfolio or “any other information” (parents may appeal this decision to the Office of the District of Columbia Deputy Mayor for Education);
Allow the OSSE to order children into the public schools if at anytime, based on any information, and “in their discretion,” the OSSE is unsatisfied with the homeschool program; and
Authorize the OSSE to make home visits to “ascertain areas of noncompliance.” (Home visits have been found to be unconstitutional in a number of states and this provision does not meet the Fourth Amendment’s requiring probable cause and obtaining a warrant.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/10/AR2008011001174.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/12bodies.html

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/dc/200802050.asp

[JFS in IL]

Do they need a search warrant to enter the home? Can parents of public school kids insist on being allowed to enter the public school and inspect the materials etc. three times a year?

[GreenKitty]

When you have children, who's in charge of them, government or parents? I don't believe the fact they were homeschooled has anything to do with her murdering them. They were in school up until March. Obviously this woman has problems.

[nestof3]

When you have children, who's in charge of them, government or parents?

You'll get different answers depending on who you ask, unfortunately.

[Tracey in TX]

Do they need a search warrant to enter the home? Can parents of public school kids insist on being allowed to enter the public school and inspect the materials etc. three times a year?

"Enter home three time a year" Oh yeah, just like ps--THE DOG AND PONY SHOW. Teachers get ample warning when they're going to be observed. That's pathetic that it's going to be brought to the home. hmmm

[Old Dominion Heather]

Proposed changes:

Proposed Home Education Regulations—March 3, 2008

Author:
Office of the State Superintendent of Education
Summary:
The regulations, if adopted, would require parents to:

Have at least a high school diploma;
Annually notify and re-notify;
Instruct daily for the same number of days and hours that the D.C. Public Schools (“DCPS”) must instruct;
Maintain a portfolio of students’ work product that parents must allow DCPS to inspect;
Allow D.C. public school officials to enter their home up to three times per year to discuss the homeschooling program, observe the instruction, and review the portfolio;
Adhere to a vague and subjective standard that is not articulated in the proposed regulation;
Submit evidence that their children have received immunizations and appropriate health and medical services and submit “any other relevant information of any other kind prescribed by the OSSE in its discretion” and
File an undefined assessment.The regulations would also:

Allow the Office of the State Superintendent of Education (“OSSE”) to initiate a remediation plan based on the student’s portfolio or “any other information” (parents may appeal this decision to the Office of the District of Columbia Deputy Mayor for Education);
Allow the OSSE to order children into the public schools if at anytime, based on any information, and “in their discretion,” the OSSE is unsatisfied with the homeschool program; and
Authorize the OSSE to make home visits to “ascertain areas of noncompliance.” (Home visits have been found to be unconstitutional in a number of states and this provision does not meet the Fourth Amendment’s requiring probable cause and obtaining a warrant.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/10/AR2008011001174.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/12bodies.html

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/dc/200802050.asp

I think I read that they had protested these requirements with the District gov't and that new requirements would be drafted with the input of homeschoolers.

[nancypants]

I personally am for a bit of home education regulation. A BIT. :001_smile: I honestly love Alberta's stance on home education (http://www.education.alberta.ca/parents/choice/homeeducation.aspx) and I think it would be great if other states/provinces could pull it off. We even get funding each year for each child which I would have never even dreamed possible when we lived in California. But then Alberta is also all for school choice so parents can choose which public schools to send their children to as well... I consider it to be a very progressive province with regards to education. I honestly don't mind the regulations at all. I rather like them. They seem to foster freedom and accountability at the same time which is not an easy balance to strike. It truly is supportive and respectful of parental choice.

Some of the stuff set forth by the DC board of Ed. definitely doesn't foster a sense of freedom and certainly goes far beyond the reach that the govt. ought to have in the home. Far beyond.

[Sue G in PA]

I think I read that they had protested these requirements with the District gov't and that new requirements would be drafted with the input of homeschoolers.

I sure hope so b/c these "requirements" are ridiculous and bordering on illegal! I'd NEVER let an official enter my home 3x each year. NEVER! Invasion of privacy? It's like they are assuming I've done something WRONG that they must monitor my actions. As to gov't or parents raising our children...our country is coming dangerously close to the former. It's very scary. Parents simply don't have the authority anymore to raise their own children. From mandated immunizations to ridiculous hs regulations (all b/c of ONE or TWO families who didn't do it "right" KWIM?)...the gov't is systematically taking away our RIGHTS. Pretty soon we won't be able to say, "And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands" in the "Pledge of Allegiance" anymore. I for one am sick of our illustrious gov't thinking that they, as a "body" are more capable of raising our nations kids than the parents are. Okay, off my soapbox...this kind of stuff just gets my blood pressure rising!

[nestof3]

You know, Nancy -- I just cannot agree with you here. And, I don't want any taxpayer money for doing what I think is best for my children -- I'm just doing what I consider my job. The thought actually makes me feel ill.

[nancypants]

I sure hope so b/c these "requirements" are ridiculous and bordering on illegal! I'd NEVER let an official enter my home 3x each year. NEVER! Invasion of privacy? It's like they are assuming I've done something WRONG that they must monitor my actions. As to gov't or parents raising our children...our country is coming dangerously close to the former. It's very scary. Parents simply don't have the authority anymore to raise their own children. From mandated immunizations to ridiculous hs regulations (all b/c of ONE or TWO families who didn't do it "right" KWIM?)...the gov't is systematically taking away our RIGHTS. Pretty soon we won't be able to say, "And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands" in the "Pledge of Allegiance" anymore. I for one am sick of our illustrious gov't thinking that they, as a "body" are more capable of raising our nations kids than the parents are. Okay, off my soapbox...this kind of stuff just gets my blood pressure rising!

C'mon Sue. It takes a village, doncha know? :lol::tongue_smilie: (Nevermind that many of them are the village idiots!):001_huh:

[nancypants]

You know, Nancy -- I just cannot agree with you here. And, I don't want any taxpayer money for doing what I think is best for my children -- I'm just doing what I consider my job. The thought actually makes me feel ill.

That's okay. I completely understand. I was very leery of it when I got here too... in disbelief almost at the idea of it. But we register with a private school board that holds our same beliefs, our facilitator that comes twice a year is also a homeschooling Mom, we are not required to keep attendance records or grades or use state issued curricula. She merely looks at what we've done and we have a conversation about what we have been learning, where we have excelled and where we are struggling and she writes up an encouraging paper ("report") about what each child is learning. They don't even have to turn them in. They just have to have them on hand "in case."

But, I do completely understand your feelings on it as they were most ardently my own right up until I met my first facilitator who is about the quietest and friendliest Mom I may have ever met.

As for taxpayer money... we are paying those taxes (much of which I find to be excessive and bordering on highway robbery) and I'll be darned if I turn my own money down and send it all to the public school! LOL Of course I would prefer that they just tax less and let us use the money as we see fit. I'm all for smaller govt. I wouldn't have asked for funding but it is offered and the requirements that we need to fulfill in order to get some of our tax money back in our own pockets are so minimal, almost negligible, that I have no issue with it. Like I said, I'd much prefer they not take it and redistribute it in the first place but we live here and they do this whether we agree philosophically with it or not and me saying no to the funding will not send any sort of message... it will just go to someone else.

[Cadam]

The lady was crazy and these regulations wouldn't have prevented the girls deaths anyway. It is horrible, but has nothing to do with homeschooling. If they were in ps their bodies would have been found a little earlier, that's all.

[nancypants]

The lady was crazy and these regulations wouldn't have prevented the girls deaths anyway. It is horrible, but has nothing to do with homeschooling. If they were in ps their bodies would have been found a little earlier, that's all.

I agree. Plus, it seems obvious (to me anyways) that she took them out of school after she already started "losing it" so her taking them out of school, in this instance, was a symptom of the underlying problem... not the underlying problem itself.

[Violet]

Proposed changes:

Proposed Home Education Regulations—March 3, 2008

Author:
Office of the State Superintendent of Education
Summary:
The regulations, if adopted, would require parents to:

Have at least a high school diploma;
Annually notify and re-notify;
Instruct daily for the same number of days and hours that the D.C. Public Schools (“DCPS”) must instruct;
Maintain a portfolio of students’ work product that parents must allow DCPS to inspect;
Allow D.C. public school officials to enter their home up to three times per year to discuss the homeschooling program, observe the instruction, and review the portfolio;
Adhere to a vague and subjective standard that is not articulated in the proposed regulation;
Submit evidence that their children have received immunizations and appropriate health and medical services and submit “any other relevant information of any other kind prescribed by the OSSE in its discretion” and
File an undefined assessment.The regulations would also:

Allow the Office of the State Superintendent of Education (“OSSE”) to initiate a remediation plan based on the student’s portfolio or “any other information” (parents may appeal this decision to the Office of the District of Columbia Deputy Mayor for Education);
Allow the OSSE to order children into the public schools if at anytime, based on any information, and “in their discretion,” the OSSE is unsatisfied with the homeschool program; and
Authorize the OSSE to make home visits to “ascertain areas of noncompliance.” (Home visits have been found to be unconstitutional in a number of states and this provision does not meet the Fourth Amendment’s requiring probable cause and obtaining a warrant.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/10/AR2008011001174.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/12bodies.html

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/dc/200802050.asp

If I lived there, all I can say is, "Texas here I come!" Talk about frightening. Hopefully, this will go down in flames. I agree that there's no reason to hold homeschoolers up to the standard of ps. Talk about twisted logic. You know, in our state, there are rules for home instruction for kids who need it for whatever reason (health). In those cases, kids are eligible for VERY LITTLE home instruction for the reason that one on one is considered to be more efficient. Obviously. I wonder what DC's regs are in regard to tutoring in the home with kids who cannot be in school for health reasons. Someone should take a look at that because they must have provisions in place for that sort of thing.

Seeing this type of stuff just makes my blood boil.

Anita

[Violet]

C'mon Sue. It takes a village, doncha know? :lol::tongue_smilie: (Nevermind that many of them are the village idiots!):001_huh:

:lol: Too funny and too true!

[Jenny in Atl]

The joke is ... aren't the DC schools some of the worst in the country? When the US public schools test top in the world, then they can come around to see if I'm doing a good enough job! :glare:

[Audrey]

I personally am for a bit of home education regulation. A BIT. :001_smile: I honestly love Alberta's stance on home education (http://www.education.alberta.ca/parents/choice/homeeducation.aspx) and I think it would be great if other states/provinces could pull it off. We even get funding each year for each child which I would have never even dreamed possible when we lived in California. But then Alberta is also all for school choice so parents can choose which public schools to send their children to as well... I consider it to be a very progressive province with regards to education. I honestly don't mind the regulations at all. I rather like them. They seem to foster freedom and accountability at the same time which is not an easy balance to strike. It truly is supportive and respectful of parental choice.

Some of the stuff set forth by the DC board of Ed. definitely doesn't foster a sense of freedom and certainly goes far beyond the reach that the govt. ought to have in the home. Far beyond.


I know you're a fan of the AB regs, and I'm not dissing them but... :D

I don't want that much regulation. I don't need someone over my shoulder and I don't like the limited curriculum choices you have to qualify for the payout. Here (MB) we don't get any $$, but no one bothers us much either. I have to submit my letter of intention every September along with my outline. Then submit a progress report in Jan. and a final report in June. Each step is one single sheet of paper.

I like it that way, but to each (province) her own. :001_smile:

As for home visits ... shaaa! Right! They're perfectly welcome as long as they can make it past the cattle wire, the bull pastures and the dogs on their own! :lol:

[nancypants]

I don't need someone over my shoulder and I don't like the limited curriculum choices you have to qualify for the payout.....

As for home visits ... shaaa! Right! They're perfectly welcome as long as they can make it past the cattle wire, the bull pastures and the dogs on their own! :lol:

I do truly and completely understand your feelings. Really. Trust me, I do! But there really is no one over my shoulder and I don't have limited curriculum choices. I pick whatever I want. Granted, people who "fully or partially align" with Alberta Learning Objectives get more funding but we do not align at all (because I like to choose all of my own curr. like you and don't want anyone telling me what I can and can't use) and I still get $600 a year per kid which is more than enough IME (especially since I'd be perfectly happy with none if it wasn't offered) though still considerably less than the province spends per public schooled child.

And as I said, while I completely understand the disdain for home visits (and was uber nervous about the idea before we had our first one a few years back), it has proved to be anything but scary as these ladies are also homeschooling moms in our small chosen school board (ours is a private one) and they value their freedom to educate their children as they please as much as I value mine so I feel really quite safe and they always get a warm welcome when they come, tea and cookies and the whole deal. :tongue_smilie:

[clwcain]

these ladies are also homeschooling moms in our small chosen school board (ours is a private one) and they value their freedom to educate their children as they please as much as I value mine so I feel really quite safe and they always get a warm welcome when they come, tea and cookies and the whole deal. :tongue_smilie:

That seems to me to be a critical difference between what I would anticipate should something like ALO be adopted here in the States and what you're day-to-day actual experience is.

Anyone I would be compelled to admit into my home, even in the state of Texas, will be, as an agent of the state, hostile to homeschooling and very likely disapproving of other "lifestyle choices" we make.

For myself, a few bucks of my tax money back from the state or federal guv'mint isn't enough to entice me to play ball, admitting strangers with the coercive power of the state into my home. If they want to enter, they'd better have a duly executable warrant.

Just my $0.02. YMMV

[nancypants]

That seems to me to be a critical difference between what I would anticipate should something like ALO be adopted here in the States and what you're day-to-day actual experience is.

Anyone I would be compelled to admit into my home, even in the state of Texas, will be, as an agent of the state, hostile to homeschooling and very likely disapproving of other "lifestyle choices" we make.

For myself, a few bucks of my tax money back from the state or federal guv'mint isn't enough to entice me to play ball, admitting strangers with the coercive power of the state into my home. If they want to enter, they'd better have a duly executable warrant.

Just my $0.02. YMMV

I understand. Those were my exact fears when we first moved here. Thankfully they were dispelled... initially and partially through my incessant quizzing of other homeschooling moms who over and over expressed their satisfaction with the level of freedoms they were given (many of them small govt. minded people... also, notably, often American ex-pats). I remained very skeptical until I had registered and experienced it myself.

As for the money, here you get it even when you tell the province that you are not going to educate your children according to their specifications. As to whether or not you choose to register as a homeschooler here... if you don't you are breaking the law and we live under the law, so we register. You just get less money when you don't align with ALO. Call me a lunatic but I'm not sending that money back. :lol: And... well, unless you are wealthy, $600 a year per kid (we have four) spent on any educational thing you see fit (be they sports, music lessons, art classes, musical instruments, computers, curricula, software, private tutoring... etc...) is not just a few dollars. It's really quite helpful even if you would willingly homeschool without it.

[Michelle in TX]

The joke is ... aren't the DC schools some of the worst in the country? When the US public schools test top in the world, then they can come around to see if I'm doing a good enough job! :glare:

:iagree: Oooooo! I'm going to use that one next time someone asks about whether I am required to test my kids or have my curricula approved (in Texas we do not). :D

[swellmomma]

I personally am for a bit of home education regulation. A BIT. :001_smile: I honestly love Alberta's stance on home education (http://www.education.alberta.ca/parents/choice/homeeducation.aspx) and I think it would be great if other states/provinces could pull it off. We even get funding each year for each child which I would have never even dreamed possible when we lived in California. But then Alberta is also all for school choice so parents can choose which public schools to send their children to as well... I consider it to be a very progressive province with regards to education. I honestly don't mind the regulations at all. I rather like them. They seem to foster freedom and accountability at the same time which is not an easy balance to strike. It truly is supportive and respectful of parental choice.

Some of the stuff set forth by the DC board of Ed. definitely doesn't foster a sense of freedom and certainly goes far beyond the reach that the govt. ought to have in the home. Far beyond.

:iagree: The board we are registered with is awesome. They only take on traditional homeschoolers(there is 3 ways to register in Alberta for those who don't know and each level denote how much the gov't plays a roll, as a traditional hs they leave me alone). The facilitator we have comes in mid to late October, I tell her my goals for the year, in February she phones me to see if I need anything, in May she comes to see our portfolio and ask if I am happy with how the year turned out. In return I get the peace of mind knowing we are registered so nosey neighbors can't call CPS on me, and I get nearly $700 pe child for curric etc. Last year the board I was with was doing it's last year of hs so they gave all blended students $1500 for the year if they registered 50%. Blended means gov't standards for some classes, my choice for others, so we did language arts, bible, health and phys ed. THis meant we handed in 5 writing assignments and went to a workshop, then showed sample of work that showed how the kids were meeting curric quidelines of the prov. FOr this I got $3000 for curric, lessons, theatre tickets etc.

I think a small amount of regulation is good, having the minor guidelines we do makes sure no child is completely falling through the cracks. Now I know in Edmonton at least 75% of the homeschoolers I know are unschoolers and have no problem with the regulations and still doing things as freely as they wish. We don't have to keep attendance, tests, grades etc. We just decide if we are happy with how our chldren are progressing basically. Those of use going a more classical route have even less worries than them. What it does ensure though is at least twice a year sometimes more if you are registered as blended or fully aligned, someone is checking in, making sure the family is getting all the support they need, helping find resources if they need it, making sure the kids are in a safe environment etc Honestly I think it would benefit all families to have these visits, even ps kids, having the teacher over for tea or something. Education on a whole is so much more than academics, and i find my facilitators the last 2 years understand that, both are/were homeschool moms, who know how a mom can get burnt out, or maybe doesn't know where to find that bug kit, or perhaps needs ideas how to help a struggling child. If you think about the number of homeschoolers out there, most of them on not online on sites like this sharing ideas, a large number of them are on their own wondering about the same things we are with out a place to ask, the regulations of having a facilitator visit means those families get all they need.

My concern over the proposed regulations here is how strict they are, maintaining the same school days and hours as ps's, and this phrase "Adhere to a vague and subjective standard that is not articulated in the proposed regulation" concerns me.

Having to annually register and allow the facilitator into your home 2-3 times a year is already happening around here without concern.

Okay end of novel.

[Joanne]

From one of the linked articles: (bold mine)
School officials apparently detected no problems. The oldest girl, a student at Booker T. Washington Public Charter School, stopped attending classes months ago. The other girls attended Meridian Public Charter School in Northwest Washington until March, when Jacks withdrew them, saying she planned to home-school them.

Nona Mitchell Richardson, spokeswoman for the D.C. Public Charter School Board, said it has no policy governing what should happen when a charter school student is withdrawn for home schooling. She said neither the board nor the schools tracked the students after the mother pulled them out of school.

The juxtaposition of ideas here screams "no logic or reasoning ability".

The same system that failed to detect problems when the children attended is supposed to be able to detect problems if the family claims "homeschooling". Uh, yea.

The unfortunate reality is the these situations happen. And they happen with families that claim "homeschooling".

The unfortunate reality is the Columbine and related incident happen. And they happen in institutional school settings.

From my quite layperson's eyes, there seems to be some patterns for each. In the institutional settings, kids at risk feel ostracized, react to perceived (whether real or not) social status issues. I've not read a story about a "homeschooling" family that did not include weird, off, odd and concerning behaviors WELL before the tragedy.

The issues are not inherent in "public school" or "homeschooling". The home or the school are simply the places where the symptoms of the problem are perpetuated. It's the forum; not the vehicle driving the issue.

[swellmomma]

I know you're a fan of the AB regs, and I'm not dissing them but... :D

I don't want that much regulation. I don't need someone over my shoulder and I don't like the limited curriculum choices you have to qualify for the payout. Here (MB) we don't get any $$, but no one bothers us much either. I have to submit my letter of intention every September along with my outline. Then submit a progress report in Jan. and a final report in June. Each step is one single sheet of paper.

I like it that way, but to each (province) her own. :001_smile:

As for home visits ... shaaa! Right! They're perfectly welcome as long as they can make it past the cattle wire, the bull pastures and the dogs on their own! :lol:

I just wanted to correct you on this, there is no limited curric choices to access the funding. I can buy what ever materials I deem fit. NOw there is some boards that like to limit large ticket items, but none that I have been with. I have 2 kids currently registered as my Ker is too young. Last year I bought art supplies, passes to attractions, board games, books, puzzles even preschool level materials even though my registered kids were in grades 2 and 3. This year I have bought a microscope, convention tickets, science supplies, curric, coloring books etc. There is no limitation to the kinds of materials I use my funding for. I tend to use purchase orders for my sake (leaving the money in my pocket rather than submitting receipts), but no one has ever said I could not purchase a certain curric peice or item I wanted. THey also leave me alone, 2 visits over coffee, that felt more like I was talking to a friend than an educational visit, and a phone call to see how I am, otherwise no contact. Seems reasonable to me.

[GretaLynne]

that this case was NOT about homeschooling at all, and was a TRUENCY case. From the bogus NYTimes article:

parents are supposed to file an “intent to withdraw from school” form with the district, something that did not happen in the Jacks case, although school social workers made several attempts to visit the family and reported the childrens’ absence from school to authorities.

This woman never was a homeschooler. She simply stopped taking her kids to school.