Placement for 8th grader in R&S English

[Jill in Maine]

:confused:I am considering Rod & Staff English next year for my rising 8th grader. My dd(12 soon to be 13) has done Abeka Language up until this year when we switched to Easy Grammar Plus. I really want her to have more practice with diagramming (Easy Grammar does none)...but am not sure she can handle Rod and Staff 8(or even 7). Last year(6th Grade) she took the Stanford Achievement test and scored in the 10th grade for the Language portion, however, many of the terms I saw in the samples for R&S 7 and 8 are unfamiliar...I've also noticed the method of the diagramming is somewhat different from what we did in Abeka?? Anyone have any suggestions of where to begin. She will also be doing CW for Older Beginners...if this might also influence the decision. Thanks!!
Jill

[runningirl71]

I am interested to see what others say about this too. How much more advanced is R&S than others, or is it just different?

I noticed you mentioned your daughters scores on the SATs. I am a certified test administrator for the SATs and it may be more helpful to look at percentile rank than at the grade level, to see what your daughter has mastered. If she ranks in the 50th percentile rank, that means she is average and has done okay for the year. Anything above 50% would mean above average. So, if she ranks in the 90th percentile, that means she has mastered all her concepts for that grade, only 10% of kids who took the test did better than her. What the grade level means, is that your daughter did just as well as if a 10th grader took that same test. It doesn't necessarily mean your daughter has mastered 10th grade concepts, but that she has an excellent grasp on the concepts for her grade. You may have already known that, but I've encountered many who get confused with the scores!:)

[Brindee]

Angie, thanks for explaining that. It really does make sense but isn't all that clear. I'd rep ya if I could!:thumbup:

If there are things that your dd doesn't understand then maybe level 5 would be good for her to go through. Since it's a "llevel" that has things she needs, it doesn't matter what level it is. If it helps her, it'd be the best thing you could do for her then! :)

[SheilaZ]

I can't give any advise on level 7 because I haven't used it yet.
But I have used levels 3 through 6.

I used the 6th grade book with the 8th grader that I tutored. Granted this was a PS student that I only saw once a week. He had not really had any real Grammar and he had never diagrammed.

He brought in worksheets from his teacher and we'd used the R&S to actually teach material and do more practice. Everything they covered in his class was covered the grade 6 R&S book.

[runningirl71]

Angie, thanks for explaining that. It really does make sense but isn't all that clear. I'd rep ya if I could!:thumbup:



Clear as mud? Glad I could help! :)

[Sandy in Indy]

I would start at 5. You can always "buzz" through it, but I think there are foundational things that might be missed if you start in a later book. (It's been a while since I've done them, so my memory is fuzzy on just what is covered in each book--and my sets are loaned out at the moment.)

[Angel]

We finished up R&S 6th this year for 8th grade with my dd. In my opinion, it was pretty weighty. We had done R&S 5th before 6th and I'm glad we did. If your dd was just coming out of Abeka, I would say go with the 6th grade book, but I'm unsure if the 5th or 6th grade book would be best with that year of Easy Grammar in between. You could breeze through the 5th grade book pretty quick by taking out all the writing assignments (which it looks like you won't need). She'll still get the foundation that R&S builds on and you'll get a chance to see if she's in the right place.

[Jill in Maine]

I am interested to see what others say about this too. How much more advanced is R&S than others, or is it just different?

I noticed you mentioned your daughters scores on the SATs. I am a certified test administrator for the SATs and it may be more helpful to look at percentile rank than at the grade level, to see what your daughter has mastered. If she ranks in the 50th percentile rank, that means she is average and has done okay for the year. Anything above 50% would mean above average. So, if she ranks in the 90th percentile, that means she has mastered all her concepts for that grade, only 10% of kids who took the test did better than her. What the grade level means, is that your daughter did just as well as if a 10th grader took that same test. It doesn't necessarily mean your daughter has mastered 10th grade concepts, but that she has an excellent grasp on the concepts for her grade. You may have already known that, but I've encountered many who get confused with the scores!:)


I actually pulled up her test report and the PR-S was 75-6 for Mechanics and 70-6 for Expression. If you are familiar with the test you will know what these scores mean....I had to look it up in the Test Interpretation pamphlet. I might add that she is fairly confident when it comes to grammar and really catches on quickly. I don't mind using the Level 5 book...but don't know if I can afford the Level 5 and 6. I also have a 6th grade ds that I will be switching directly from Abeka to GWG....he is not as quick in this subject as his sister. Now I'm wondering if I should put him in Level 5 of GWG instead of Level6???:confused: He is definitely not on the same level (ability-wise) as my Daughter.
:001_huh:Here is a real stumper...his test scores were 85-7 for Mechanics and 26-4 for Expression. That's a BIG jump????? What are we missing here?

[Beth in Central TX]

This is from TWTM page 343: "If you're beginning formal grammar with an older student, you can simply start right at grade level, with the following exceptions: Seventh- or eighth-grade students just beginning in Rod & Staff should start with the fifth [sic] grade book, Progressing with Courage."

This is actually a typo noted on the TWTM website. Progressing with Courage is the 6th grade R&S grammar book. Therefore, based on SWB recommendations, you would begin with R&S grammar 6.

Here's a part of a post I made earlier this year to give you a better idea of what grade 6 contains:

I'm doing R&S grammar 6 with DS#1 & R&S grammar 5 with DS#2. In comparing R&S 5 & 6:

-the lessons are longer in 6, and a smaller typeset is used
-there are more oral drill exercises, written exercises, and review exercises for each lesson in 6
-there are 139 lessons in 6, but only 119 in 5
-there are 82 worksheets for 6, but only 68 worksheets for 5
-there are 11 chapter tests & a final for 6, but only 10 chapter tests in 5
-5 talks about verb tenses & principal parts; 6 talks about transitive verbs & action verbs that aren't transitive
-5 talks about linking verbs with predicate nouns & adj; 6 talks about passive and active voice
-5 talks about nom, obj, & poss pronouns; 6 expands on this and talks about relative pronouns & relative clauses
-there's more diagramming in 6 including adjective clauses, adverbs of degree, and adverb clauses
-more advanced concepts in 6 include prepositional phrases as adjectives and adverbs, subordinating conjunctions, and avoiding misplaced phrases and clauses

HTH!

[Brindee]

This is from TWTM page 343: "If you're beginning formal grammar with an older student, you can simply start right at grade level, with the following exceptions: Seventh- or eighth-grade students just beginning in Rod & Staff should start with the fifth [sic] grade book, Progressing with Courage."

This is actually a typo noted on the TWTM website. Progressing with Courage is the 6th grade R&S grammar book. Therefore, based on SWB recommendations, you would begin with R&S grammar 6.

Here's a part of a post I made earlier this year to give you a better idea of what grade 6 contains:

I'm doing R&S grammar 6 with DS#1 & R&S grammar 5 with DS#2. In comparing R&S 5 & 6:

-the lessons are longer in 6, and a smaller typeset is used
-there are more oral drill exercises, written exercises, and review exercises for each lesson in 6
-there are 139 lessons in 6, but only 119 in 5
-there are 82 worksheets for 6, but only 68 worksheets for 5
-there are 11 chapter tests & a final for 6, but only 10 chapter tests in 5
-5 talks about verb tenses & principal parts; 6 talks about transitive verbs & action verbs that aren't transitive
-5 talks about linking verbs with predicate nouns & adj; 6 talks about passive and active voice
-5 talks about nom, obj, & poss pronouns; 6 expands on this and talks about relative pronouns & relative clauses
-there's more diagramming in 6 including adjective clauses, adverbs of degree, and adverb clauses
-more advanced concepts in 6 include prepositional phrases as adjectives and adverbs, subordinating conjunctions, and avoiding misplaced phrases and clauses

HTH!Great summary Beth! I hadn't even noticed the smaller type until you pointed it out!

[Jill in Maine]

This is from TWTM page 343: "If you're beginning formal grammar with an older student, you can simply start right at grade level, with the following exceptions: Seventh- or eighth-grade students just beginning in Rod & Staff should start with the fifth [sic] grade book, Progressing with Courage."

This is actually a typo noted on the TWTM website. Progressing with Courage is the 6th grade R&S grammar book. Therefore, based on SWB recommendations, you would begin with R&S grammar 6.

Here's a part of a post I made earlier this year to give you a better idea of what grade 6 contains:

I'm doing R&S grammar 6 with DS#1 & R&S grammar 5 with DS#2. In comparing R&S 5 & 6:

-the lessons are longer in 6, and a smaller typeset is used
-there are more oral drill exercises, written exercises, and review exercises for each lesson in 6
-there are 139 lessons in 6, but only 119 in 5
-there are 82 worksheets for 6, but only 68 worksheets for 5
-there are 11 chapter tests & a final for 6, but only 10 chapter tests in 5
-5 talks about verb tenses & principal parts; 6 talks about transitive verbs & action verbs that aren't transitive
-5 talks about linking verbs with predicate nouns & adj; 6 talks about passive and active voice
-5 talks about nom, obj, & poss pronouns; 6 expands on this and talks about relative pronouns & relative clauses
-there's more diagramming in 6 including adjective clauses, adverbs of degree, and adverb clauses
-more advanced concepts in 6 include prepositional phrases as adjectives and adverbs, subordinating conjunctions, and avoiding misplaced phrases and clauses

HTH!


Now, I feel like I'm getting somewhere!! All of the things mentioned about level 5, my daughter has covered...all of the things from level 6 would be new concepts. I think I will start her there. I also may just choose the R&S for my son as well, seeing as GWG only goes up to Grade 6 at this time, placing him in Level 5. Then I won't have to do so much backtracking in the future. Thank you all SO much!! This has really been a great help.:hurray:

[Brindee]

Now, I feel like I'm getting somewhere!! All of the things mentioned about level 5, my daughter has covered...all of the things from level 6 would be new concepts. I think I will start her there. I also may just choose the R&S for my son as well, seeing as GWG only goes up to Grade 6 at this time, placing him in Level 5. Then I won't have to do so much backtracking in the future. Thank you all SO much!! This has really been a great help.:hurray:Just know that, if you can swing it financially, if she starts floundering and not getting it, don't give up on R&S, go back one level! I did that with my dd, and once she started the lower level she did great, and moved into the stuff she hadn't understood just fine!