Flags in 18th century? SOTW3

[JaneNickerson]

Which flags would be flying during late renaissance and early modern?
I am especially interested in England and France.

[clwcain]

In what context? On a ship? Over a castle or manor? On the battlefield? On parade?

Are you looking for all possible permutations? Or just the "national" flags?

[JaneNickerson]

I guess I know even less about flags than I first thought!:blink:
How about national flags and flags on explorers ships? Only now that I have found a friend who knows their flags...I want England, France, Spain, Sweden and Holland.:) Please :)

[Laura Corin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag

Look down the page to find the version that would have been used at the time you are interested in.

Laura

[clwcain]

I guess I know even less about flags than I first thought!:blink:
How about national flags and flags on explorers ships? Only now that I have found a friend who knows their flags...I want England, France, Spain, Sweden and Holland.:) Please :)

Perhaps you overestimate my abilities. :scared:

Start with Wikipedia, as suggested by Laura in China. Some of it's material can be unreliable, but with something as widely known as flags you're probably pretty safe.

But could you clarify what time period you're looking for? Late Renaissance/early modern is very different, to my mind, from 18th century (1700s).

If you're looking for Rennie/Early Modern, most of the "national" flags didn't exist since most of those countries weren't united nations at that time. There were an assortment of pennants, banners, flags, and ensigns (all different types of things under the aegis "flag") used that were in many cases a legacy of feudal heraldry.

Military units of this era would have arms, and thus banners, that tied them to their feudal lord or geographic locale. Or they could be fully independent mercenary companies.

If you're talking 18th-19th century (mid-1700s through mid-1800s), then you're getting into the rise of Nationalism and unified nation states that start to have flags and armies such as we would recognize today. France becomes "modern" France in the 1600s, only to be wracked by the Revolution and then again reshaped by Napoleon. Prussia unifies the assorted German principalities into Imperial Germany. By the late 19th century you even have the violent unification of Italy under the House of Savoy in the wake of Garibaldi's Revolution.

Russia and Austria-Hungary, to say nothing of the Holy Roman Empire, all have their various flags at different times.

As I'm not familiar with SOTW3, I may be making this far more complicated than it needs to be. Perhaps I should have started by asking, "What's this for?" :blushing:

[JaneNickerson]

Okay..to simplify.:)
We are studying SOTW3 Late Ren/Early Mod.
I am Canadian and I wanted to add a little here and there, but I can't seem to find certain things I want.:bored:
Dc colored an Englishman and a Frenchman in 18th century costume and I wanted them to draw the coordinating flags. (We are leading up to England vs. France in Canada.)
I just don't know if it is Union Jack for England or St. George's Cross. And is it tricolor for France or three fleur-de-lis on blue ?! :confused:
Can you help?

[Laura Corin]

Okay..to simplify.:)

I just don't know if it is Union Jack for England or St. George's Cross. And is it tricolor for France or three fleur-de-lis on blue ?! :confused:
Can you help?

If you want the soldier to be representing England, it's the cross of St George. If he's representing Britain, it would be the union flag of the day (union jack if on a boat). I don't know which would have been the norm at the time - maybe look at some paintings?

The French tricolour came in with the French Revolution, I believe.

Laura

[clwcain]

:iagree: with Laura's comments regarding English/British standards.

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France

Scroll to the bottom of the article for images.
The tricolor and its variants are post-Revolution.

3 fleur-de-lis on blue or gold fleur-de-lis on white are both options.

I don't know if it is an option, but you might want to see if your library has any Osprey books on the soldiers of the time period.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/

HTH :001_smile:

[JaneNickerson]

Thank you Laura and clwcain!! I now know who to ask my history trivia. :)
Much appreciated. Wish I was as learned as you two. Perhaps after I learn with dc!!!

[clwcain]

Thank you Laura and clwcain!! I now know who to ask my history trivia. :)
Much appreciated. Wish I was as learned as you two. Perhaps after I learn with dc!!!

Happy to help. It's all a legacy of my misspent youth. ;)

[Laura Corin]

Thank you Laura and clwcain!! I now know who to ask my history trivia. :)
Much appreciated. Wish I was as learned as you two. Perhaps after I learn with dc!!!

Explaining the union flag is my boys' party trick (when talking to Americans, etc.) - audiences old and young all seem to find it fun.

Laura