Does anybody else find that IEW's SWI takes too long?

[Rhonda in TX]

I started out with TWSS, and it was going well. I thought my kids would enjoy SWI, though, so I bought it. I definitely like how Andrew teaches, but those lessons take forever. I taught the kids Unit III before we got SWI. We did the lesson one day and wrote the rough draft the next. I backed up with SWI because we hadn't covered all the same dress-ups. So, we are now up to Unit III again. We watched 20 minutes of the lesson on Monday, then another 25 minutes of the lesson today. We are STILL not finished with it, although we will get to the rough draft tomorrow. There is no way my kids could sit in front of the TV for a lesson for almost an hour.

I'm seriously considering returning it. I just don't think it's a good fit for us.

Has anybody else had the same experience?

[Carol in Cal.]

I can't imagine spending that much time watching the instructions on a regular basis. I want someone ELSE to watch the instructions and tell DD what to do. Maybe next year a coop will cover this. If not, I may need to reconsider.

Also, Dd is going into 7th grade next year. I would like to think that she is secure enough in her writing style at this point to benefit from IEW without being completely dominated by it. That is not always the way it works out, though, and I waited this long because I wanted her to develop her own writing voice and then pick up IEW techniques as tools rather than as defining style choices.

[Rhonda in TX]

I loved watching TWSS (and still do watch it), and I could teach my kids faster.

I think it goes back to the whole "classroom" thing. I can teach my 2 kids faster than somebody can teach a classroom of 10-15 kids. I also think the dynamics would be completely different if they were actually IN the classroom. KWIM?

Andrew may do it better, but TWSS helps me do it completely adequately. I'm not sure that we need SWI.

[8FillTheHeart]

But it is only 4 days worth of lessons (albeit 4 very long days)

I am not an IEW fan. I think the concept is easily taught and doesn't require so much expense to do so. I think the writing in their minibooks is awful.

[Rhonda in TX]

Unit III (Story Sequence) took me about 30 minutes to teach to my kids. The DVD took an hour. Again, I think mainly because it's in a classroom setting. More kids = more time. That's why we as homeschoolers can do school so much faster than the public school setting.

I'm not going to defend my choice to use IEW. It has taken something that I considered my weakest subject in school, that completely intimidated me, and has taught me how to do it.

I was really hoping to hear from someone who has experience with SWI.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have seen it, and I would rather that she learned from someone live. It just works better for her. It also would be faster and more specific.

Anyway, you're right, I am not really your target responder.

IEW has been great for a lot of people.

I just want to use it differently than through the TWSS or the SWI.

[MIch elle]

we set our own pace and no dvd's to watch. Yes, I need to teach the lesson but I break it up over several days.

[Night Elf]

This was the major reason I didn't purchase SWI even though I was seriously considering it. I did purchase TWSS and the U.S. History-Based Writing Lessons. Then I had my ds11 watch the SWI level B workshop disc with me, the one that is included in the TWSS DVD collection. My son and I like the way Andrew teaches but we were both beginning to zone out and was wondering when we'd get to the end of the lesson. We actually didn't finish it at all. At first, my son said he did want the SWI lessons but since we couldn't even finish the one we had, we both decided it would be boring.

I'm going to use the history-based lessons I purchased and do Level A with him. It's going fairly well so far, though we're only on Lesson 5. I put off purchasing IEW for over 2 years and now that I've been watching TWSS, I'm sorry I delayed so long. I guess it is easy for some people and seems too expensive for what you get. But I'm not clever enough in writing to have come up with that system or implement it on my own. Heck, if I had, I wouldn't need a writing program at all. Now I'm working with a kid who hates writing because the previous programs/methods we've tried left him feeling bitter about the writing process.

[8FillTheHeart]

Unit III (Story Sequence) took me about 30 minutes to teach to my kids. The DVD took an hour. Again, I think mainly because it's in a classroom setting. More kids = more time. That's why we as homeschoolers can do school so much faster than the public school setting.

I'm not going to defend my choice to use IEW. It has taken something that I considered my weakest subject in school, that completely intimidated me, and has taught me how to do it.

I was really hoping to hear from someone who has experience with SWI.

just to clarify, I do have experience with IEW. I purchased both SWI A and C. They are simply 4 day classes. (and both very similar)

[Rhonda in TX]

This was the major reason I didn't purchase SWI even though I was seriously considering it. I did purchase TWSS and the U.S. History-Based Writing Lessons. Then I had my ds11 watch the SWI level B workshop disc with me, the one that is included in the TWSS DVD collection. My son and I like the way Andrew teaches but we were both beginning to zone out and was wondering when we'd get to the end of the lesson. We actually didn't finish it at all. At first, my son said he did want the SWI lessons but since we couldn't even finish the one we had, we both decided it would be boring.

I'm going to use the history-based lessons I purchased and do Level A with him. It's going fairly well so far, though we're only on Lesson 5. I put off purchasing IEW for over 2 years and now that I've been watching TWSS, I'm sorry I delayed so long. I guess it is easy for some people and seems too expensive for what you get. But I'm not clever enough in writing to have come up with that system or implement it on my own. Heck, if I had, I wouldn't need a writing program at all. Now I'm working with a kid who hates writing because the previous programs/methods we've tried left him feeling bitter about the writing process.

It sounds like my 11 yr old Aspie has the same struggles with writing yours does. He really zones out during the DVDs. He told me today he thought they were "beneath him" and he wants me to teach him. LOL

My DD follows the instructions and actually responds to the DVD (answering questions), but even she gets to the point of "is this ever going to end?".

I hate to return things, but I think I'm going to do it. That's what the guarantee is for, right? I think just TWSS is a much better fit for us.

(Your thoughts about the expense of IEW are something I completely agree with. I also regret waiting. I even had it sitting on a shelf for 6 months before using it!)

[Night Elf]

Rhonda,

Are you on the IEWfamilies yahoo group? They have so much help in their files section! They even have a shareware folder where people put finished lesson plans. I felt way more confident with IEW after I saw those resources.

Today was the very first day that my son didn't groan when I told him we were going to do writing next. He started working on key word outline yesterday but the paragraph was long and we decided to finish it up today. And he did great with using the key words to make sentences. He was impressed with how much he had written! I let him dictate to me so all he had to focus on was his ideas. The paragraph is edited, decorated and revised in another lesson. He'll be able to do that on his own. Very cool!

[Love2Learn]

But we are taking it slowly. My kids have enjoyed watching Andrew. They watch about 1 hour of DVD every two weeks. We are only about one half of the way through, but we are doing quite a few of the reinforcement lessons.

[Deece in MN]

I started out with TWSS, and it was going well. I thought my kids would enjoy SWI, though, so I bought it. I definitely like how Andrew teaches, but those lessons take forever. I taught the kids Unit III before we got SWI. We did the lesson one day and wrote the rough draft the next. I backed up with SWI because we hadn't covered all the same dress-ups. So, we are now up to Unit III again. We watched 20 minutes of the lesson on Monday, then another 25 minutes of the lesson today. We are STILL not finished with it, although we will get to the rough draft tomorrow. There is no way my kids could sit in front of the TV for a lesson for almost an hour.

I'm seriously considering returning it. I just don't think it's a good fit for us.

Has anybody else had the same experience?

I just purchased SWI-C, but we won't start using it until after our break in June.

I just wanted to mention that there are lesson plans you can download for free on the IEW web-site for the SWI levels. Have you seen these? Maybe they would help break up the lessons so it doesn't seem so long. I haven't really looked over them yet (plan to do that during our break) so I don't know how they are set up or how long they take, but it may be something to look into.

HTH

[Heather in VA]

But it is only 4 days worth of lessons (albeit 4 very long days)

I am not an IEW fan. I think the concept is easily taught and doesn't require so much expense to do so. I think the writing in their minibooks is awful.

Actually its a 4 day seminar that has been turned into a 15 week program. Also, the mini-books are not for imitation. They never present them as a writing sample.

Heather

[Leah]

I think the writing in their minibooks is awful.

:iagree: agghhhhh!

[Rhonda in TX]

Rhonda,

Are you on the IEWfamilies yahoo group? They have so much help in their files section! They even have a shareware folder where people put finished lesson plans. I felt way more confident with IEW after I saw those resources.

Today was the very first day that my son didn't groan when I told him we were going to do writing next. He started working on key word outline yesterday but the paragraph was long and we decided to finish it up today. And he did great with using the key words to make sentences. He was impressed with how much he had written! I let him dictate to me so all he had to focus on was his ideas. The paragraph is edited, decorated and revised in another lesson. He'll be able to do that on his own. Very cool!

I thought about posting this question there, but they're so incredibly helpful I hate to be the slightest bit negative. I haven't investigated the files section enough. I need to spend more time looking around there.

I'm waiting for no groans. :) I will say that it is much better than it used to be. I let him do everything except the KWO on the computer. He's a hunt and peck typist, so he's still not fast, but if he puts pencil to paper his sentences get shorter and shorter and... He is much more expressive on the computer.

I get the impression you let your DS add dress-ups after the rough draft. Is that right? It's very difficult for DS to think of them from the KWO. We're working on it, but I'm letting him add them after he's done his rough draft.

[Rhonda in TX]

we set our own pace and no dvd's to watch. Yes, I need to teach the lesson but I break it up over several days.

I plan on looking at them more in the future when we're more comfortable with the different units.

[Rhonda in TX]

I just purchased SWI-C, but we won't start using it until after our break in June.

I just wanted to mention that there are lesson plans you can download for free on the IEW web-site for the SWI levels. Have you seen these? Maybe they would help break up the lessons so it doesn't seem so long. I haven't really looked over them yet (plan to do that during our break) so I don't know how they are set up or how long they take, but it may be something to look into.

HTH

It's how we determine a good stopping point for the lesson. They are very helpful for that. :)

[Rhonda in TX]

just to clarify, I do have experience with IEW. I purchased both SWI A and C. They are simply 4 day classes. (and both very similar)

Okay. I didn't gather that from your original post.

[Night Elf]

I get the impression you let your DS add dress-ups after the rough draft. Is that right? It's very difficult for DS to think of them from the KWO. We're working on it, but I'm letting him add them after he's done his rough draft.

Yeah. I noticed that the directions in the history-based writing lessons said to think of strong verbs and -LY words before writing the paragraph but that doesn't make sense for my son. I'm also trying to teach him that editing and revising are not evil ways for me to torture him further. By having him add the dress-ups to his first rough draft, he can see the reason for revising and where the dress-ups will have the most effect. For example, today he found two banned words in his writing. He changed them to stronger verbs and found a great opportunity for an -LY word. It also made him look at the beginning of each sentence to make sure he wasn't starting them all out the same way. Maybe after using IEW for a while, he'll pick up on the banned words and dress-ups more easily and will be able to incorporate them into his first rough draft.

[8FillTheHeart]

Actually its a 4 day seminar that has been turned into a 15 week program. Also, the mini-books are not for imitation. They never present them as a writing sample.

Heather

Precisely why does one sell mini-books with atrocious writing in the middle of a writing program catalog?

Have they re-shot the vidoes and re-done the program into 75 days worth of video? Or is it still the same 4 day seminar?

If it is the same thing repacked......how does that change the content?

Guess I'm confused.

[Rhonda in TX]

Have they re-shot the vidoes and re-done the program into 75 days worth of video? Or is it still the same 4 day seminar?

If it is the same thing repacked......how does that change the content?

Guess I'm confused.

I don't know what they had before, but SWI now comes with lesson plans, breaking it down into 15 lessons. Not every lesson uses a DVD segment. Some are just reinforcement. There are optional sources included as well.

For SWI-A, here are a few of the lessons:

Lesson 1 - (disc 1) Unit I, Unit II
Lesson 2 - (no disc) reinforcement
Lesson 3 - (disc 1) Review Unit I, introduce dress-ups (-ly, who/which)
Lesson 4 - (disc 1) Choosing a title; strong verb; banned words (said, see/saw, go/went)
Lesson 5 - (no disc) reinforcement

[AngieW in Texas]

I vastly prefer the theme-based lessons over the video-based. I just do better with something that I can read through rather than having to watch a video.

We did SWI-B and it was pretty good. I felt like the videos did a better job of teaching the units than I had on my own using TWSS, but the theme-based lessons are a whole world better. My 9th grader did US history-based writing lessons volume 1 and is 2/3 of the way through volume 2. My 7th grader will use volume 1 next year for 8th grade. I haven't decided whether to have my youngest do volume 1 or Fables,Myths,Fairy Tales. I think she would enjoy Fables a lot better. I won't be able to have her do volume 2 the following year anyway, because it's too much of a leap up from volume 1 for her.

[Rhonda in TX]

Yeah. I noticed that the directions in the history-based writing lessons said to think of strong verbs and -LY words before writing the paragraph but that doesn't make sense for my son. I'm also trying to teach him that editing and revising are not evil ways for me to torture him further. By having him add the dress-ups to his first rough draft, he can see the reason for revising and where the dress-ups will have the most effect. For example, today he found two banned words in his writing. He changed them to stronger verbs and found a great opportunity for an -LY word. It also made him look at the beginning of each sentence to make sure he wasn't starting them all out the same way. Maybe after using IEW for a while, he'll pick up on the banned words and dress-ups more easily and will be able to incorporate them into his first rough draft.

I do try to get them into his first rough draft, but it's an editing step. So, I guess it's actually an edited version, but before I see it. We then go over what he forgot. I'm pretty sure he see that step as torture. :) I get a lot of "I can't do it!", but of course, he eventually does. Oh, the drama.

It's all a process, and as long as we're progressing, I'm happy.

[Heather in VA]

Precisely why does one sell mini-books with atrocious writing in the middle of a writing program catalog?

Have they re-shot the vidoes and re-done the program into 75 days worth of video? Or is it still the same 4 day seminar?

If it is the same thing repacked......how does that change the content?

Guess I'm confused.

Do you actually want to know or do you just want another opportunity to express that you don't like IEW? We know that. I can't imagine my explaining how the program works will change that. That wasn't the point of the original post. Rhonda wanted feedback from those using IEW not from those who don't and seem to be offended by those who do.

[Heather in VA]

Rhonda,

I have found that a few lessons are longer than I want to sit there so we just stop when it's getting a bit long and continue the lesson the next day. Sometimes I'll have her do a reenforcement lesson since we paused during a lesson and didn't get to the next writing assignment. My dd's enjoy Pudewa so it's been worth having to adjust the timetable a bit.

Heather

[mama25angels]

I started out with TWSS, and it was going well. I thought my kids would enjoy SWI, though, so I bought it. I definitely like how Andrew teaches, but those lessons take forever. I taught the kids Unit III before we got SWI. We did the lesson one day and wrote the rough draft the next. I backed up with SWI because we hadn't covered all the same dress-ups. So, we are now up to Unit III again. We watched 20 minutes of the lesson on Monday, then another 25 minutes of the lesson today. We are STILL not finished with it, although we will get to the rough draft tomorrow. There is no way my kids could sit in front of the TV for a lesson for almost an hour.

I'm seriously considering returning it. I just don't think it's a good fit for us.

Has anybody else had the same experience?

:lol:I know how you feel, we didn't buy the SWI but watched the video that came in the TWSS and I actually fell asleep watching it and my kids were so bored they'd perfer it if I just taught them.

[8FillTheHeart]

Do you actually want to know or do you just want another opportunity to express that you don't like IEW? We know that. I can't imagine my explaining how the program works will change that. That wasn't the point of the original post. Rhonda wanted feedback from those using IEW not from those who don't and seem to be offended by those who do.

Excuse me? When I have I ever appeared to be offended by those who like IEW? My only comment to Rhonda was that the concepts are not that difficult for the price you pay. I purchased 2 different levels and watched both with my kids. Um......so I guess I do qualify as someone who has used IEW. Yes, I think it moves too slow. Yes, I think that parents can teach the same concepts equally well or better than Mr. Pudewa.

And as far as my questions to you, those were legitimate questions. The mini-books were marketed as sources for supplemental key word outline practice. Their contents are so poor that it was impossible to use them for a topic sentence with supporting details. We tried to use them......we did. I used them to teach my children how to edit and what not to produce in their writing.

Based on Rhonda's reply, it sounds like it is the same seminar. It seems like they are now providing more lesson planning based on the seminar, but the seminar itself hasn't changed.

My opinion stands. It may not agree with yours. Fine. Many people love IEW. Doesn't mean that all do and I happen to be one that doesn't.

[LilyK]

By having him add the dress-ups to his first rough draft, he can see the reason for revising and where the dress-ups will have the most effect

That is exactly what I did when my kids did IEW. I found that they hated it a lot less once we started improvising a little.
I disagreed with IEW's philosophy of having them do revisions right away. When they were young, they could do the dress ups and the openers all in one draft. I really didn't want them to hate writing, which is what was happening because of the revisions.
Now, they are older, with a much greater work and writing capacity. They have no problem doing revisions upon revisions. In the meantime, we have managed to preserve their enthusiasm for writing by not over-burdening them too early.