Language arts suggestions welcome - for early elementary.

[one l michele]

Here's the situation.

Love hate relationship with SWR. I've tried tweaking it for two months using it for dictation instead of going through the lists traditionally. My youngest hasn't progressed and my oldests scores dropped. It is very time consuming to use the way it is intended and then juggle three kids with it. We tried SWO, the boys loved it, but pace was so slow compared to SWR. Do I drop spelling all together until next year? Do I make do with SWR since I have it? Do I go back to SWO because they liked it and it wasn't teacher intensive, thus it would give me time to focus on writing skills? I've looked at other spelling programs and do not see anything that connects with me somehow. I don't want to learn another complicated spelling program, SWR took a lot of time to learn.

And writing, I need a teaching writing for dummies book. I have not a clue what is age appropriate, the copywork and dictation are seeming like busy work, I'm not seeing an improvement and dh wants to see "real writing" like we were doing previously with Calvert. I am so tempted to order TWSS today to at least help me see the whole picture and hopefully give ideas on where to go. I'm not sure IEW is really appropriate for below grade 4 though. So for under grade 4, what would you recommend for a more schoolish style program that will clearly break down the steps, provide practice exercises, and hold the teachers hand?

I'm so content with other materials we are using, but this language arts stuff is so confusing.

[Tina in WA]

First I want you to know I don't have experience with SWR or SWO. I hope someone will answer this question soon.

My thoughts for writing are... Don't worry about an actual writing program at this age. Wait until next year, or 4th even. In 3rd grade look into Writing Tales. It is a wonderful, teacher friendly, gentle approach to writing. We love it. :) For now, just do copy work, dictation, and narratives.

Here are the language arts items we use for Grades 1-3: Growing With Grammar (http://www.growingwithgrammar.com/), Writing Tales (http://writing-tales.com/)(4th really), Spelling Power (http://www.castlemoyle.com/), & History Scribe: Happy Scribe (http://www.thehomeschoolshop.com/sh-happyscribe.htm). I do dictation and narrations with those grades as well.

Here is a review you might like: SP & SW (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/O00SpellingPower.html)

I am really hoping you find something soon that will work for you. :)

~Tina

[Lucidity]

We've really enjoyed Just Write from EPS Books. Both of my children have fun with it. All-About-Spelling may be an option for you to check also. My kids hate it though, but it does work so we only do it once a week. I've recently just switched to LLATL and I adore it. I can't say too much though because I'm only 1 week in. :)

Let me know if you have any specific questions I can answer. Good luck.

[mcconnellboys]

I have used Spelling Workout for a long time and like it. If your boys like it, then I would stay with it. I think it is a very good, sound program.

McGraw Hill puts out a series called Spectrum and I like their writing for younger children. They have books for each grade level.

Regena

[Verena]

Hi Michele,

have you taken a look at BJU English? I'm doing it this year with my 3rd grader and it is a very solid program. You can see sample chapters at the bjupress website. It is paced out for you (180 lessons) and consists of grammar and writing and also offers built in review (chapter and cumulative review). 2 weeks of grammar alternated with 2 weeks of writing. The writing instruction is VERY incremental and a lot of hand-holding is provided. Students learn all the writing steps, gathering ideas, drafting, revising/proofreading and publishing. Some people say you don't need the TM, but I like having it especially for the writing chapters. So far, ds has written a letter, game instructions, persuasive essay and a story. In a few days, we'll tackle a book report (later on there is poem, research report, and a compare-contrast essay).
The student book is about $15, TM is more, but you can find them for a discount on various used hs booksale websites.
It is colorful and I like that it alternates grammar and writing. The grammar weeks are lighter which gives us a bit of a breather. We use those weeks to focus those weeks on other writing (mostly science).

As far as SWR (we're using it, too): can you put your finger on exactly what's not working? Is it just the slow going? Have you started only 2 months ago? Have you identified how your ds learns best (whole to parts vs. parts to whole)?
I'm asking because it has taken me about 6 months until I was best able to utilitze SWR for my guys. My oldest, f.ex. learns whole-parts (is a good speller) and for him it would be torture if I explained every list or every word in minute detail. He doesn't mark his words anymore, nor underlines them. I give him 10 words the first day, 10 the next and on 2 other days we do dictation using the "trouble" words for that week.
My younger ds is the exact opposite from his older brother. We are just starting SWR very gently (he is 6) and only write on the white board. We are working on phonograms and the sounds they make (we're currently doing ee, ow, th, sh and ar). He needs a v-e-r-y slow pace and being able to see the parts that make the whole.

I'm not saying you should stick with SWR- just saying that I think it's a very solid method and since you already have it, I'd give it another few months (at least).

I hope something in here helped!

[Another Lynn]

Michele, I understand how you feel about SWR! I will likely always use it because I love the way there are so few exceptions - it seems to really understand the way our language works. But I also get frustrated because of the time it takes and the intensity. I'm not totally using it correctly right now either. (It's also a bit frustrating because we're in Classical Conversations, which only leaves me 4days/week when I think SWR could really use 5). Anyway, my oldest ds is 3rd grade and I see him making PLENTY of spelling mistakes when I ask him to write (more on writing in a minute), but I remember OhElizabeth saying that they really need to write a lot in order for spelling "put into practice" to improve. My latest thoughts on how to use SWR with my oldest is to do 5words a day and to immediately dictate several sentences using those words (plus old ones that will fit the sentence). I will have to come up with my own sentences (shouldn't be too hard for so few words). For my K-er, I'm just dictating words to him (having him mark them, etc.), working on phonograms, etc. I don't even test him yet - I'm just using it to teach him to read. (I have a feeling he's going to be a more natural speller anyway). If you go back to SWO, I would just continue to drill the phonograms and the rules and have them mark their SWO words the SWR way (do you have the alpha list? - very handy!)

My .02 on writing. We had not done much until recently. Our few attempts at written narration did not make me especially proud :) Then I remembered that we learned to narrate orally using something simple: Aesop's Fables. Why not use the same thing to learn to do written narrations. So now I read Aesop to my 3rd grader and my Ker. Then I have my 3rd grader leave the room and write his narration while my K-er gives me his oral narration. Then I correct the 3rd grader's written narration and he copies it over the next day. I really like how gentle this is write now. I will probably pick a more "formal" program for 4th grade, but this is giving us needed practice for now.

If dh really wants a formal program, I would look at Writing Tales.

Just wanted to add that I appreciate your post because LA is an area I'm really "feeling" my way through. I was so convinced that Charlotte Mason was the way to go in the beginning, but that just didn't click for us in the area of LA. I 'm still adjusting my thoughts and my approach to it. Best of luck and please share what you learn along the way!!!

[one l michele]

"As far as SWR (we're using it, too): can you put your finger on exactly what's not working? Is it just the slow going? Have you started only 2 months ago? Have you identified how your ds learns best (whole to parts vs. parts to whole)?
I'm asking because it has taken me about 6 months until I was best able to utilitze SWR for my guys. My oldest, f.ex. learns whole-parts (is a good speller) and for him it would be torture if I explained every list or every word in minute detail. He doesn't mark his words anymore, nor underlines them. I give him 10 words the first day, 10 the next and on 2 other days we do dictation using the "trouble" words for that week.
My younger ds is the exact opposite from his older brother. We are just starting SWR very gently (he is 6) and only write on the white board. We are working on phonograms and the sounds they make (we're currently doing ee, ow, th, sh and ar). He needs a v-e-r-y slow pace and being able to see the parts that make the whole. QUOTE]

My oldest enjoys it and doesn't want to change. He's been using it for two years now. He was in list N back in November when I wasn't content with how his spelling was in other areas, at the time he was also testing in list N. I had made the decision to switch to dictation and try that. We've been doing 5 sentences a day, he reminds me if I haven't called him over to do that yet, he does actually enjoy it. Even with this method, I'm not seeing his spelling improving in other subjects. We went from SWR to SWO for a couple months, then back to SWR, I have a strong feeling we'd do the same this time. I have so much time and energy invested into SWR. I've taught two of my kids to read using it. Today he took a diagnostic and scores really dropped as well as list placement. I'm left scratching my head and wondering what we do tomorrow.

[one l michele]

Your reply means a lot Lynn. I felt guilty for sharing this on an open message board and "airing" my struggles. There are a lot of things really going well with our schooling, Language Arts has just been the area where I have not made a connection with a certain curriculum and way of teaching it. We tackle it daily, yet I still feel like I'm winging it. What I ended up doing after I posted was using a sample of Imitations in Writing and he did very well with it. This ds needs very clear step by step directions and it gave me the guidance of what to ask him to do next. I tried having him do a written narration on a short aesops fable, he would return with a two page choppy narration. Instead of a 5 sentence good one. Todays sample confirms to me IEW is a good fit for us, going at his pace and focusing on quality.

I just replied above in this thread about SWR. I'm not even sure where to place him now if I go back to using it traditionally. Last month his mastery level was 3.9, today it was 2.7. My middle wants to go back to SWO, he's quite an indpendent child and liked that he could do it himself. I did use SWR to teach him to read and he's doing well aside from some articulation issues with the "er's, l, r, and all their blends" which I'm working with the local district on.

Anyway, I'm frustrated with me, certainly not my kiddos.