Suggestions for Math reluctant DS

[langfam]

I'm so disheartened today. DS#3 has always been "math reluctant". He did Saxon to Alg. 1/2 (in 7th) which was extremely frustrating for him. Many days he would crunch up his paper and I'd find his textbook in the waste paper basket. We switched him to Jabob's Algebra (for 8th) which was way less frustrating for him, but he did struggle through some chapters and we had to stop when we came to complex algebraic fractions, so we're supplementing with "Key to" which he loves because it's so much easier, he says. I think because there's no problem-solving involved.

Today, I had to give him a year-end assessment for the homeschool program he's enrolled in and I saw today all that same frustration he had when he did Saxon. He was starting to crunch up the assessment sheet and was pounding around the room. Going over his answers, I noticed he completely avoided any questions that had difficult computations or were multiple-step problem solving. He just didn't want to even attempt them. Problems like finding the average, or discounted price of an item, or rate word problems.

I realize now that this DS would have benefited from Lial's BCM this year, but it's the year's end now and he'll be in 9th in a few months! I'm running out of time for him.

Any suggestions? I know he's going to have to redo Alg 1, but I feel that doing Saxon math with him all those years probably "damaged" him somewhat mathematically. For him, math concepts are in bits and pieces and he doesn't know what to use when. I'm realizing it's pointless to go on until he sees the big picture. I guess I'm looking for assurance that it's OK to take a step back and re-build his foundation. I just can kick myself for not doing it this year.

Thanks for any advice.

[Alyce]

I know it's not as rigorous but maybe it will be more fun and serve to boost his like of math at the same time. I'd put him back in Alg 1. It's not uncommon for 9th graders to be taking that so I don't think he's really all that behind. What he knows you can skim through if you feel comfortable. Maybe supplement with Alek's. We've just started using it and I wish we had a long time ago. It really is great! Or if you like Lial's BCM just have him do that. I'd go with TT because of it's style. He'd probably enjoy it much more. Then switch to another curriculum when he hits Geometry or even wait till Alg 2.

[Jann in TX]

You are correct that a solid foundation is vital for upper maths.

I had to stop and assess my dd's math placement when she was in 8th grade. Like you we had used Saxon and all was fine until Pre-Algebra--then her weak foundation became VERY clear. Her sister also used Saxon and she has a very STRONG foundational grasp of concepts...it is not the program it is the child--and their learning styles.

The Key to-- series is good, but I prefer BCM for students who are in 8th grade and older--they need more meat.

I suggest going ahead with a 'review' using BCM. Have your son work the CHAPTER REVIEWS at first. This will give you an idea of his trouble spots. Definitely go through the units on Decimals, Fractions and Percents.

I really like how BCM shows these concepts from the beginning so the student can see the whole picture up to this point.

I would also suggest that your son work through a different Algebra 1 program in 9th grade. A more traditional program would be best. It is VERY common for students to take Algebra 1 in 9th grade.

Your son might benefit from occasional private tutoring--someone who can analyze your son's learning style and give him tools for working out his 'dreaded' problems without forcing him to do it the way 'the book says'.
I told one student I'm working with now in Lial's Introductory Algebra NOT to look at the lessons in a particular part of the book. I KNEW it would confuse her because I knew her 'thought process' and I had alternate methods that were better suited. She did very well with that unit!

I'm personally 'driven crazy' but my middle dd's thought process. To me she takes the LONG road when it comes to problem solving--but her crazy logic always seems to end with the correct answer (a LOT like I was at her age!).

[langfam]

Thanks, Jann, I hadn't thought of using the chapter reviews to find trouble spots, even though I've been doing the exact thing with "Key to" series, i.e. using the tests at the end of each book first to check. Sometimes I can be such a dunce! This summer, I'm just going to have to sit down with him and work through BCM. I feel a lot better now! Thanks!:)

[Susie-Knits]

He was starting to crunch up the assessment sheet and was pounding around the room. Going over his answers, I noticed he completely avoided any questions that had difficult computations or were multiple-step problem solving. He just didn't want to even attempt them. Problems like finding the average, or discounted price of an item, or rate word problems.


A year or 2 ago, your quote above would have described my youngest son. A non-mathie growing up in a mathie family. (BTW, his gifting is music and he brings the joy of music to the rest of us.)

About the same time, I changed math over to ChalkDust for both him and my oldest. We started the non-mathie guy in the Basic Math program in 7th grade. Suddenly, I started hearing him repeating Mosely, self talk if you will, while working multiple step problems and getting more "organized" in working of his math. Before he always wanted to work things in his head, was so random that sequence of steps were not understandable to him etc.. I know I have said the same things over and over to him doing the years - why didn't he listen to me? I don't really know. I have taught/coached math and problem solving classes; my oldest was successful in math; I have Computer Science degree; worked in research and design in my field for many years before kids etc.. But for some reason, he remembers and does what Mosely patiently, routinely, and consistantly says in the lessons. Perhaps I got tired of repeating what I knew I had said or perhaps he needed to mature a bit to grasp it. It really doesn't matter - he needed to hear it at nauseam till it registered. He finally acquired the "hooks" he needed to hang the higher math concepts on. Math will never be his favorite subject - he loves history and literature and music - but it is no longer the painful struggle it was.

Now, we do not work ChalkDust by just letting him watch and do the problems by himself. We both watch it, discuss - a Socratic math dialogue if you will, and I assign about 15 -20 problems a day (no overload because he tunes out when frustrated. Previously so very easily frustrated that we started out doing 10 problems a day). I believe that success breeds success.

While he may not be a mathie by nature, he is now on the road by way of ChalkDust. He finished PreAlgebra this year with great success and less stress on all. His test scores have jumped because he now attempts the problem, remembers math better, and self talks using the English clues he understands to do problem solving. This is tremendious change from the boy who 2 years ago just filled in the dots on the math section of a standardized test without even attempting to work a single problem -- much to my horror and disbelief.

Side note - ChalkDust has also worked well for my older mathie who loves math - he takes math contests for fun and who will probably major in a math related field in college.

I just wanted to share what has worked for our family and let you know that you are not alone. I remember throwing up my hands in disbelief and frustration at times.

There are many success stories out there with many different good math texts/programs. It is just finding the "one" for your son. And Jann's idea of a patient tutor is also a good one.

Hugs-
Susie

[langfam]

Thanks so much for your encouraging words. I actually do have CD Alg 1 lined-up for him for 9th. I bought it used. I'm thinking he needs review of his weaker topics ( I'm afraid there might many). I think Uncle Buck is amazing. He's helped my older ones with SAT math. Thanks:)

[Martha in NM]

and found that while Jacobs was better for ds and easier for me than Saxon, it still didn't get the job done. A friend lent us her VideoText, and it had just the right mix of new concepts and review for ds. It uses a comprehensible way of setting up problems in the very beginning and builds on that model through the entire course. I liked the solutions manuals, especially those for tests and quizzes. I was able to brush up on my skills by watching and discussing each lesson and working the practice problems without spending a lot of time on daily work; usually about 20 minutes.

That said, no curriculum is perfect and YMMV. However, one thing I've found that's important regardless of curriculum is spending time analyzing wrong answers from daily work, quizzes, and exams to see what's not working and exactly where the student goes wrong. Sometimes I found no patterns; usually careless errors in those cases. Often, though, I could identify specific lessons that needed to be repeated. My advice to anyone contemplating teaching high school math at home is to make this type of analysis a priority. If you cannot approach math at that level or do not have the time, outsourcing might be a good option.

If I could go back and do math over, I'd make curriculum choices based first on what's easiest for me to teach effectively. I don't have anything against Saxon per se but found that after the primary grades it was too scattered for me. Also my son needed a better balance between new concepts and review.

Second, I would not be in such a hurry to start algebra even though the trend seems to be teaching it at younger ages. If a student is ready; fine. If not, forging ahead can cost time down the line. Our time in 8th grade would have been better spent solidifying arithmetic skills, and working on speed drills. That last is to help finish standardized tests in good time. Normally I'm against "teaching to the test", but if a student is applying for placement or scholarships, it's frustrating to watch him or her unable to demonstrate what they DO know because they work slowly.

Third, I'd spend more time on analyzing errors in a constructive way. This is not always easy and can be time consuming too. FWIW, my friends with children in ps find that most of the teachers either don't have the skills or the time to diagnose errors. They never get past the point of marking wrong answers.

This is probably more than you wanted to hear, but one last observation fwiw...I've noticed that the "mathy" people who post here talk in terms of a variety of math resources. When planning curriculum a couple of years back, I had books stacked by subject side by side on a long table and saw multiple resources for everything except math. That's something I'd change, too!

My formerly math reluctant son has finally learned to enjoy math. It's still not his favorite subject, but he doesn't dread it either.

Added thought: Math and Latin are two subjects that I think need to be covered in some form every single school day, and for students who struggle in those subjects long breaks can be a problem. I found that in the days when ds really dreaded math it was tempting to skip "just for one day" when we were especially stressed. Those days add up over time and will affect the high school math sequence. It's no fun prepping for the PSAT while just beginning geometry and the ACT before having had trig. Ask me how I know!

[LizzyBee]

Could you have your son look at some samples online to see which curriculum seems to "click" for him? My middle dd struggles with math, and I had her look at MUS, Chalkdust, and TT. From those choices, she chose TT. But then I looked at Life of Fred and knew it was perfect for her. LOF is not very expensive, so I bought the first four books. I think I'm going to buy the rest of the set soon in case it goes out of print. She absolutely loves Fred and she is enjoying math for the first time in a long time.