**should I move my Boy Scout into Venturing?**

[Peek a Boo]

My 13yo son is talking about joining the Venturing group that meets w/ his Boy Scout troop. Other than the fact they are co-ed, what are the pros and cons? Is there stuff he can do in Venturing that a regular Boy Scout patrol/troop can't do?

His troop leaders are unavailable right now, and I sent an email to the scouting organization [after reading their info on Venturing], so I figgered I'd bug y'all next ;-)

TIA!

[Deb in NZ]

Venturers are wonderful IF the leaders are enthusiastic about working with teenagers. We have a Venturer patrol at our Sea Scout group, but the leader doesn't put much time into leading & our venturers only get together when they join the scouts for regattas. Our city also has a combined Venturer group, made up of Venturers from 5-6 local scout groups (both sea scouts & land scouts). This group has about 5 leaders, who take turns being the leader on duty. Dd loves attending this group. Here in NZ Venturers is for boys & girls aged 14.5 - 18yo. 13yo is too young IMHO. Dd just returned from the NZ Scout Canoe School & had a GREAT time, meeting Venturers & Senior Scouts from all over NZ. Our Scout schools are like week long camps designed for senior scouts & venturers (ages 14-18). My dd is working on her Duke of Edinborough award through Ventuers.

So, IMHO, Ventuers is great, but wait until your ds is at least 14yo. The co-ed aspect isn't an issue here as scouting is co-ed from the start in NZ and there are pros & cons to that issue.

Blessings

[Peek a Boo]

Thanks Deb. ds will be 14 in May --he's kinda thinking about it.
They have a great Venturing crew already affiliated w/ the troop -they basically work pretty close anyway. Some kids are dual registered? i need to check that out more. He has a very active troop. Pretty cool leaders- very motivated. Almost too motivated for me lol. I kinda prefer the troops where "Scouting exists to help the boy" not "The boy exists to fulfill Scouting." I kinda feel like they are in the latter camp. I'll have to see what i can do about that ;)

I'm sure Venturing is great, but I actually kinda prefer the all-boys aspect of Boy Scouts. I guess my biggest question would be: what is in Venturing that isn't in Boys Scouts? [besides Yet. Another. Uniform. Expense. and girls, lol].

[Unicorn]

I'd let him do both. Venturing is "supposed" to be more high adventure activities, and sometimes the youth have a bigger leadership role. However, like Deb said, it all depends on the leaders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (is that enough emphasis for you) Talk to the leaders, talk to other parents of venturers in that particular group, talk to the venturers in this group, etc. No 2 scout groups are ever alike! Not much help I know, but it's the best advice I got! :0)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My 13yo son is talking about joining the Venturing group that meets w/ his Boy Scout troop. Other than the fact they are co-ed, what are the pros and cons? Is there stuff he can do in Venturing that a regular Boy Scout patrol/troop can't do?

TIA!

Has he completed his Eagle Scout yet? Given the consideration that is given to the Eagle Scout award in things like college applications, employment applications and military enlistments, I would encourage him to complete that if he was anywhere on the road to completing it.
If it was a matter of joining Venturing or leaving scouts, then I would look more into Venturing.

[Rosie_0801]

Speaking as a former guide leader (and I know this is going to sound horribly arrogant,) you aren't really the best person to make the judgement. Its common knowledge that parents know their kids better than anyone else, but it's also common knowledge amongst leaders in these sorts of organisations that they know *some* aspects of the kids that there parents hardly even glimpse. I really think you ought to talk to his current leaders, tell them your boy is interested in moving up, and ask their opinion. It can really muck up the inner workings of a troop when kids too young are allowed to join, or if kids who are too old won't move up. If your troop is working with the Venturers a bit, the scout leaders should be able to tell if your boy is ready to fit in there. If they really don't think he's ready (based on his development, not the gap he'll leave in the scout troop) they ought to give him some extra challenges. "We'd really like to see you complete this challenge/award before you move on to Venturers. Lets get you started today." Usually, if the kids have decided they want to move on, and get a bit of extra support as I've suggested, they'll grow up enough in a matter of weeks :)
Hope you don't mind this "insider" point of view,
:)
Rosie

[RebeccaC]

Our troop does not have a Venturing group but it does have a reenactment group. My 14 and 15 yo ds are part of that group. The reenactment group is a 1600 to the beginning of the 1800s French Trapper or Colonial Frontiersmen. The 14 is learning how to work a forge and blacksmith like they would have in the 1700s. My 15 is learning how to hunt and trap and live like Danell Boone. He sleeps out in all weather and lives off the land. They do this tho with their dad. I feel better knowing that dh is there with them.

They like this as much maybe better than their regular scouting troop. I am not sure which group they learn more from but my limited understanding is that the reenactment group is patterned after a venturing group. The reenactment group is not co-ed tho and all the members are either current or past members of our troop and the leaders are leaders in the BSA troop too. One thing is for sure they learn more history and I think how to be self sufficient from the reenactment group as everything has to be authentic.

I don't know if your son's dad would be willing to go along but that might help with some of your concerns. I considerer scouting and reenacting part of learning to be a man something that must be passed on by some one with more testosterone than I have :w00t: Anyway my boys like being part of both groups.

[8FillTheHeart]

They don't function the same way. Our oldest switched to Ventures when he was 16. Personally, I was not (and am still not.....b/c they can remain members until 21) impressed with the entire "crew" perspective. Venturers is supposed to be "teen" led. There are a lot of immature teens in our ds's crew. They have had numerous "incidents" between a few of the boys and girls. The clicks within the crew are HUGE.

As far as how crews work......each crew is supposed to develop their own "expertise." Anything from sailing to rock climbing and the focus is supposed to be on the higher adventure activities. They do not work on merit badges as a crew and they don't have a focus on service like scouts. However, it is possible to earn your Eagle while only being a crew member and not an active Boy Scout.

All that is obviously from my perspective. Initially my ds was much happier in the crew than in his former troop. However, he has started to separate himself from the crew b/c there is so much "trash" (as he puts it.) His opinion is that the younger girls (those just turning 14 and joining) really impact the crew's functioning. The older kids are more serious and are more focused on rock climbing and bouldering. The younger girls, according to him, are only their to stir up rumors and flirt. (over-generalization, but there has been a lot of families that are no longer speaking) BTW.....this is a homeschool crew and most of these families all knew eachother prior to the crew.

[theodwyn]

In our troop the boys have to be at a certain rank per certain age (such as Eagle if 14, life if 15, etc.) before they are allowed to join Venturing because they don't want to distract them from finishing Eagle. At first I was very much against the co-ed aspect of it, but feel better about it now that I see how our troop manages this. I also think that when/if my ds, who is 14 and Life rank, does join Venturing I will want to be very involved. The good thing is that he is ok with that!

[Janet in WA]

What makes your son interested in the Venturing Crew? Typically, Venturing crews have an "emphasis" (sometimes high adventure, as another poster mentioned, but not necessarily). That emphasis can be anything that interests the young people and/or their leaders.

[Peek a Boo]

well, it's been awhile since posting this, and we have decided to hold off on Venturing, mostly because of the co-ed feature.

His main interest was that they are "different" and do other things. And that there are a couple of boys he really admires in them, lol.

Rosie-- you were a leader in Venturing? yes, an "insider" view is exactly what I was looking for, actually. The biggest questions were: can he still work on getting his Eagle and merit badges [that answer appears to be YES], and what would the benefit be of joining a Venturing crew as opposed to leadership of Scouts in the troop [that still seems to be very subjective]? I'm sure leaders can offer insight, but i want a LOT more info on pros and cons before making the decision. And not to sound like I'm belittling the experience and observations of a leader, but yeah, it really IS my decision to make :-). As i mentioned, I'm not too keen on the "advance at full speed" mentality and lack of family focus the troop seems to take, so the opinions of the leaders are really just one variable in the whole process.


My biggest issue at this point is the co-ed feature, and we'll probably pass solely because of that. But i do want more info anyway, cuz I'm an info junkie :)
It doesn't appear that "moving up" is part of the deal since Boy Scouts has places for boys until they are 18.
I don't mind the teen led aspect --that's kinda the way the Boy Scouts are s'posed to work too. Under adult supervision, of course.

Sebastian--he does NOT have his Eagle yet --he just reached First Class a couple months ago.

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie-- you were a leader in Venturing? yes, an "insider" view is exactly what I was looking for, actually. And not to sound like I'm belittling the experience and observations of a leader, but yeah, it really IS my decision to make :-). As i mentioned, I'm not too keen on the "advance at full speed" mentality and lack of family focus the troop seems to take, so the opinions of the leaders are really just one variable in the whole process.


I can't give the ins and outs of Venturing and Scouting in the US, because I was a guide and leader in Australia :) I know it is your decision to make, but a parent who has never been a leader can't possibly see the situation from that point of view; so I wanted to give a leaders' point of view, that's all! I personally think there's nothing worse for boy scouts than having girls in their troop. This is a view commonly held by male scout leaders and rejected vehemently by female scout leaders :) As a former guide, and a rather old fashioned one at that, I can never agree with it. If he's looking for something cool and different, maybe it's time for him to introduce his troop to something new. The re-enactment suggestion may be a good idea there. Check if there's an SCA group in your area. Someone from there may be willing to come and teach them or show some stuff. My opinion on "teen led" is that's it's a nice idea, and rarely shows up much. Think about it, a group of adults is hard pressed to organise themselves! When you do decide to send him on, I hope you can find a venturer group that doesn't have "incidents!"
:)
Rosie

[8FillTheHeart]

And "teen led" in crew and BSA have different meanings. Imagine an "incident" and the teens are responsible for decidng how to deal with it. Hmm......then remember how cliquey teens can be.

BSA has much more leader control and influence (which I think is a good thing)

The funny thing is that the BSA troop that my ds left is actually doing more adventurous activities now than the crew. As the troop has gotten older, they have started having activities geared just for the older boys.

[Janet in WA]

I personally think there's nothing worse for boy scouts than having girls in their troop. This is a view commonly held by male scout leaders and rejected vehemently by female scout leaders :) I so appreciated Scouting's offering my sons one of the only remaining opportunities for boys to do boy stuff with other boys and (mostly) men. The value of that experience is unfortunately so underestimated and undervalued. I don't mind the BSA offering an additional program that allows girls and boys to participate together, but I pray that they never eliminate the all-boy troop. And I hope the GSA (or some other organization) continues to offer an all-girl opportunity for girls.