If your children are reading, do they need phonics?

[tinkgumby]

I've been planning my curriculum for the Fall (my boys are in K and 1st in public right now), and as I look over other people's plans, I see they have handwriting AND reading AND phonics AND grammar and so on.

My boys are both reading fairly well. They don't get every word perfect, but they're both reading short chapter books, and the more practice they get, the better they are.

Is it really necessary to continue with phonics instruction after children are reading? What have been your experiences with doing or not doing phonics? I see a lot of people mention Explode the Code - would you use that with a reader?

For Language Arts, I'm already planning on doing WWE and FLL this fall, along with Sonlight Read-Alouds and Readers, R&S handwriting, and some notebooking.

Thanks! :001_smile:

[JenneinAZ]

My son is continuing phonics even though he reads really really well because he can't spell. He needs the explicit phonics so that his spelling will improve. If your kids can spell then I can't see the point.

[JFS in IL]

I was a good reader early on, and HATED phonics. My kids, however, could not read w/o phonics instruction. It depends a lot on the kid, I think. That said, a decent spelling program, and having your kidlet read aloud to you daily (so you can catch any errors in sounding out words and target specific problems with some phonics work) may be all you need.

[tinkgumby]

Thanks for the responses! I forgot to mention I'm also doing All About Spelling with them, which I think does delve into phonics a little bit.

[WTMindy]

We never did a formal phonics program with our kids (although we did teach informal phonics as they were learning to read). My kids tend to be pretty good spellers and I haven't regretted not doing phonics.

[SwimmyKids]

I think I would continue to do phonics with your kids at least through syllable breakdowns, which will help them immensely both with their reading and their spelling. Considering all the LA you already plan to do, however, maybe don't do an entire phonics program, but just start at breaking down syllables.

I also think "If your kids can't spell, then what's the point" is a gross overstatement. Teach your kids read well and to write well-ordered, coherent passages. Then teach them to read and write even better. Their spelling will come along at a different pace (Your kids are young, after all.). When they keyboard, they will have the benefits of technology. If they never spell well, they will benefit from having an editor.

There's a whole, huge point to LA even for kids who don't spell well, who never will spell well. If I took the approach that LA is pointless without spelling well, my dyslexic son's education, like the education of every child with language-based differences, would grind to a sad, frustrating halt.

[GretaLynne]

I've been struggling with this same question over the last few weeks. I think some kids really need and benefit from phonics instruction. I was recently asking about fun phonics programs that I could try with her. But upon further reflection, I think my dd has had all that she can stand, and all that's going to be productive for her, so we're dropping it.

I was an early and eager reader and a natural speller. So it's come as something of a surprise to me to find out my daughter does not have the same inclinations! She is a reluctant reader and a poor (though very phonetic) speller. I know most would say that sounds like exactly the kind of kid that needs phonics, but she hates it so intensely that I think it would be counterproductive to force it on her at this point. My plan is to continue having her read aloud to me every day, set aside some time every day for her to read silently to herself for enjoyment, and also to start doing the fluency reading exercise as described in WTM. Oh, and to continue with daily spelling practice! She definitely needs that.

Well, I don't know if that helps you at all. I think it really depends a lot on the child. From what you've said, I suspect your boys would be fine without phonics (the point of phonics is to get them reading fluently, and they're doing that, right?). But I would consider a formal spelling program if they need it, or copywork and/or dictation if they can pick it up that way.

[tinkgumby]

Thanks, I appreciate all of your input! :)

I think I'm going to go ahead and stick with what I have planned, and just add in the breaking down syllables. If I notice a problem, I can always add in more! Thanks again!

[LadyAberlin]

I though All About Spelling is solid Phonics? I thought it teaches spelling through Phonics.

[fruitful vine]

I though All About Spelling is solid Phonics? I thought it teaches spelling through Phonics.

All about spelling does teach spelling through Phonics.
If your using All About Spelling then you are teaching phonics.

[4pillars]

I say KEEP doing phonics. My son was a very early reader, and so I did not keep doing phonics. He is not such a great speller, and I think that if I would have kept doing phonics, it would have helped him sooo much.

So, even if they know how to read, I think it will help cement those spelling rules:)

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, you never can be too careful when it comes to phonics IMO. My aunt learned phonics from her DH because she couldn't sound out unfamiliar words after learning to read by sight. My DD is reading everything, including this LOL and I am making her finish OPG and ETC to be safe.

[Eliana]

I don't think a child who is reading fluently would (generally) need a phonics program if s/he is doing a spelling program... and I know my kids would have gone bonkers if I'd tried to use one once they were reading!

The most I would suggest is to continue to have the child read to you a few times a week (I make it a very desirable thing - I choose a really fun/exciting book and we save it for when we take turns reading to each other. (I do try to choose one which will also stretch the child a little.) If s/he hasn't mastered a few skills, they will come up quite naturally and can be gently addressed in the moment.


This is one of those issues which I think can trick us into choosing short term over long term goals... Personally, my highest priority in "teaching" reading is to create passionate, skilled readers. Kids who read for pleasure, education, and information, who reach instinctively for a book, who find satisfaction, enlightenment, and enjoyment in books. Imnsho, making it all too much of a chore kills that passion and turns reading into a drill, a chore, a trial rather than a joy. What it takes to do that will vary widely from child to child, so I trust my instincts for each child rather than using any specific measures.

fwiw and ymmv ;)

[tinkgumby]

Thanks for all your responses!!!

I looked into All About Spelling enough to know I wanted to do it this fall, but I haven't actually used it yet, so I guess the part about it including solid phonics sort of escaped me. :D So . . . yay! Guess I'm covered.

Eliana, your point is well taken - I am a book lover, and my husband isn't, and I certainly want to raise my kids up to love reading! I will try my best to keep that in mind with everything I'm working towards. (:

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't think a child who is reading fluently would (generally) need a phonics program if s/he is doing a spelling program... and I know my kids would have gone bonkers if I'd tried to use one once they were reading!

The most I would suggest is to continue to have the child read to you a few times a week (I make it a very desirable thing - I choose a really fun/exciting book and we save it for when we take turns reading to each other. (I do try to choose one which will also stretch the child a little.) If s/he hasn't mastered a few skills, they will come up quite naturally and can be gently addressed in the moment.
:iagree:

This is one of those issues which I think can trick us into choosing short term over long term goals... Personally, my highest priority in "teaching" reading is to create passionate, skilled readers.

I don't understand what you mean here. :confused: I think that if one skips phonics because the child is already reading, that would be choosing the short term goal. As they are expected to read at a higher level it could cause problems in the long term. What are your thoughts? :bigear:

Tink, it seems AAS will have you covered!:001_smile:

[Eliana]

I don't understand what you mean here. :confused: I think that if one skips phonics because the child is already reading, that would be choosing the short term goal. As they are expected to read at a higher level it could cause problems in the long term. What are your thoughts? :bigear:


I think it can be really easy to get caught up in drilling skills, even if the drill isn't absolutely necessary, to 'be on the safe side' rather than supporting skill building in less direct ways.

I don't think dropping phonics once a kid is reading fluently (not just sounding things out, but really reading) is sacrificing long-term skills... it is sacrificing short-term parental confidence or comfort, perhaps, the desire to be *doing* something concrete and measurable, but I don't think it will create better, stronger readers. Most kids *will* need a spelling program, which is really phonics in reverse, and I think most would also benefit from continuing to read aloud to a parent (real stories, not exercises!).

...but then I am a rather laissez-faire parent around reading instruction! I believe that the ideal is to provide the minimum guidance needed to get a child reading with confidence and enthusiasm and then to provide support, but not do a lot of hands-on direction.

This approach has worked really well with all of our children, and none has had any barriers to higher level reading at all (so far - some of them are still quite young!). My eldest two have been reading on a college level for years now - and choose challenging literature for some of their pleasure reading - my middle two have been reading on an upper high school level for quite some time (and ds reads college science textbooks for pleasure as well as high school level lit), the twins aren't far enough along for me to see yet how my long-term goals for them will play out.

My mother is a Montessori primary guide and her (much broader!) experience matches my own minuscule sample... but I know not all kids and all families benefit from the same things, so ymmv. :)

I'm not sure if I've really answered your question - let me know if I haven't.

[Lovedtodeath]

:) Thank you for your experience and clarification!

I will keep this in mind. :D

[Plaid Dad]

I agree that if a child is reading and spelling well or is reading well and using a spelling program, additional phonics instruction is unnecessary.