Lowering of legal drinking age: what's your opinion?

[*anj*]

According to an article in USA Today, (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-20-drinkingage_N.htm)
a handful of states are considering a lowering of the legal drinking age. Some are looking into lowering it to 18 for military personnel only, while others are examining the possibility of lowering it for everyone.

What do you think about this?

I think that if I were 18 I'd be delighted, but considering that I'm quite a bit older than that I think it's irresponsible. I understand the argument that underage people still manage to get their hands on alcohol and that they might engage in riskier behavior because their drinking has to occur underground. It's almost like a forbidden fruit kind of thing for some kids.

But I really don't think that's the case for all of them, and I think those extra few years can make a difference maturity-wise. Drinking and driving are a lethal combination and I'd hazard a guess that inexperienced drinking and driving would be even worse.

What's your opinion?

[snickelfritz]

BUT I do understand those who argue that it doesn't make sense that 18 is old enough to go fight in a war, but it's not old enough to go buy a beer.

Maybe they should just raise the age of enlistment?:001_huh:

[pmegan]

I am in favor of the idea. I think most people who drink have a drink long before they are 21, which means that they do it in secret. This secrecy, I think, is what leads to binge drinking and unhealthy drinking practices. If it is legal for an 18 year old to drink, then a college can better keep tabs of its students. Right now they know underage drinking is happening, but they can't really do anything about it except for damage control after the fact. Lowering it to 18 would allow colleges to keep a better eye on students as they drink, because students would be more likely to do it out in the open than to do it behind locked doors.

I know it's a very contentious issue. I just don't think the 21 law has been successful at all.

[j.griff]

I don't have a problem with it. I think it works better with the lower age limit in other countries. I don't think that prolonging childhood is a 'good' thing, insofaras laws are concerned. I think our tendency to baby our children, into adulthood, is what causes the drinking and driving, we don't treat them like responsible people- so they are NOT responsible people. Of course, the whole American culture is so defunct that I don't know how well suddenly lowering the age limit will work. We most definitely WILL have some going out and bingeing just because they "can" now. It's frustrating. If it weren't so taboo to begin with, we wouldn't be in such a funk. And there's no way in Hades that I think raising the enlistment age is a "good" thing.

[Cafelattee]

Now if you raise the military age to 21 then I would say raise the drinking age. I am a mother of boys. WE don't drink. But its just doesn't make sense to train someone to kill or die for their country but they can't make buy cigarette and alcohol. That should be an adult decisions. I was married at 20 and couldn't buy alcohol. That just doesn't make sense

[fivetails]

I've always found the '21' thing odd - but I live in a Canadian province where the age is 19....it's 19 all across our country with the exception of 2 (or is it 3? Quebec, Alberta...is Manitoba 18?) provinces.....

21 seems very old - I mean, you could be a college graduated, married parent, voting in the elections, serving in the military (etc etc you get the idea).....but you can't have a beer? :confused:

[clwcain]

I'm in favor of the elimination of minimum drinking ages, particularly as they're often used by intrusive state/municipal governments to dictate what I may serve my own children.

[KidsHappen]

You are either an adult at 18 or you are not. If you are old enough to make decisions regarding the military, voting, getting married, buying a house and so on and so forth then you are old enough to drink. You don't magically become more responsible at 21.

[Jenny in Atl]

I have no problem with a lower drinking age. I do however, have a problem with teens driving before say 18 though. Does that make me weird?

[j.griff]

No dear, THAT is not why you are weird, LOL. J/K :lol:

[KidsHappen]

the rest said, with reagrds to otherwise legal activities.


You are either an adult at 18 or you are not. If you are old enough to make decisions regarding the military, voting, getting married, buying a house and so on and so forth then you are old enough to drink. You don't magically become more responsible at 21.

[*anj*]

Okay, I may have to rethink my position. Some of you are making really good points. This is one of the great things about this board. You can state an opinion and people disagree with you but in so doing they help you to see the situation from another perspective. Hmmm.....:lurk5:

[nancypants]

People can enlist at 18, smoke at 18 and vote at 18... it makes little sense to me to have a different age for drinking. It's 18 here in Alberta. Kids that are over 18 who live near the border usually just cross the border to drink legally (whether or not they do it responsibly is another question all together). Those who drink irresponsibly will do it (and do all of the time) no matter what age they are, how illegal it is or how stupid it is. There are those who are responsible drinkers at any age though also.

Goodness... some people don't vote responsibly at any age either but it's still legal because there are also plenty of people who do vote responsibly! :tongue_smilie:

[WendyK]

I have no problem with a lower drinking age. I do however, have a problem with teens driving before say 18 though. Does that make me weird?

I agree (no not about you being weird).

I would be fine with 18 as the drinking age. I think it is rather weird to limit this to only military ppl though. So they reward military service with booze? :001_huh:

[pmegan]

I have no problem with a lower drinking age. I do however, have a problem with teens driving before say 18 though. Does that make me weird?

No, I agree entierly! I'm happy that the age slowly seems to be rising in many places, if not directly than at least by all the special rules states are making about younger drivers. I think it's just not a good idea to arm 16 year olds with several tons of metal. And, in my town at least, the parents seem to buy the kids the biggest SUV they can find... "to keep the kids safe!" Well, what about EVERYONE ELSE on the road?

[Danestress]

I'd like to raise the driving age and lower the drinking age.

I don't think 15 year olds should be driving. I am fine with a 21 year old drinking age, but if people want to lower it, I wouldn't fight it. I could go either way.

I don't think we should have a special rule for people in the military. I was a military wife for many years and really appreciate the sacrifices that are an inherent part of serving (or being in a service member's family) but I think that there are many roles young people can play that are to the benefit of their society - being (or studying to be) teachers, social workers, nurses, engineers etc. So I'm not sure that I would have a special military exception.

[j.griff]

Well, of course! I believe the Royal Navy still serves Rum on their ships, :lol:

Nothing like having a beer after an intense training exercise, to take the edge off.

[KidsHappen]

I have no problem with a lower drinking age. I do however, have a problem with teens driving before say 18 though. Does that make me weird?

:iagree: My oldest two dc did not get their licenses until after age 18. 16 year old does have a permit but she gets very little driving time abd only with dad. I think that I can drag this out until at least 17. :)

[KidsHappen]

I could drink even though I was under 18. I guess they figured that if I was mature enough to handle marriage then I could drink. I just had to carry my marriage certificate and a form of ID with me. I don't know if this still applies as it was a very long time ago.

[Kat in GA]

I have no problem with a lower drinking age. I do however, have a problem with teens driving before say 18 though. Does that make me weird?

I completely agree. Jenny - do you remember a few years ago here in the metro area they actually tried to raise the age to 17 (in reaction to a series of teen driving deaths)? It didn't pass because the rural part of the state objected to laws that had to do with city folk; and because parents were up in arms about how to get their 16 year olds to their jobs...

[Jenny in Atl]

I completely agree. Jenny - do you remember a few years ago here in the metro area they actually tried to raise the age to 17 (in reaction to a series of teen driving deaths)? It didn't pass because the rural part of the state objected to laws that had to do with city folk; and because parents were up in arms about how to get their 16 year olds to their jobs...

Oh ya, South GA would never let that pass.

[cricket1178]

You are either an adult at 18 or you are not. If you are old enough to make decisions regarding the military, voting, getting married, buying a house and so on and so forth then you are old enough to drink. You don't magically become more responsible at 21.

I opt for "you are not an adult at 18". I'm probably in the minority on this, but as you said nothing magical happens at 21. Certainly nothing magical happens when you go to bed one night at 17 and awake the next morning 18 years old and an adult. I think the legal age for being an adult should be 21. I believe that in that 3 years from 18 to 21 a lot of maturing takes place (although, I actually think some us don't make it until were in our 30's, but that's another story). ;)

Many "adults" can not handle the responsibility of drinking. Why would we lower the drinking age, possibly lower the age of illegal drinking in the process. Seems like increasing the speed limit and just running over that about 5-10miles an hour. (of course this is jmho):D

[Audrey]

I've always found the '21' thing odd - but I live in a Canadian province where the age is 19....it's 19 all across our country with the exception of 2 (or is it 3? Quebec, Alberta...is Manitoba 18?) provinces.....

21 seems very old - I mean, you could be a college graduated, married parent, voting in the elections, serving in the military (etc etc you get the idea).....but you can't have a beer? :confused:

Yep, MB is 18.

[j.griff]

So, you're old enough to have a child or have children, and you've been old enough for a few years now, but you're not an adult?
Do you think that this lack of "adultness" is based on age alone, or do you think it is a result of our current culture? Just curious.

[Philothea]

I would not mind having no minimum drinking age. However, in the culture that we live in, I don't know how we could make that change without our teens going overboard drinking.

So I do not mind having the drinking age lowered. But I would like to see the driving age increased or more restricted. One of the main arguments for keeping the driving age so low is for kids to be able to get to work. I see that argument, but I would ideally like to live in a society where teens could work on academics, skills or trades, and spend time with the family instead of going off to work at 16.

[j.griff]

But, for some spending time on a trade IS going to work. I don't like the idea of kids not being allowed to work.

[*anj*]

Well, I think that the lack of "adultness" is more the result of our current culture. We refer to young people as "kids" until they're in their late 20's. Even beyond the teen years we treat them as if they were still children in our home. Recently I've noticed how few teens spend their summers working. It seems that lately many teenagers play sports and go to camp all summer whereas 25-30 years ago most of us had summer jobs. If you played a varsity sport maybe you'd spend a week at a special camp or you'd quit your job a couple of weeks early in August so that you could start practicing, but beyond that we all worked. Last summer I heard of many local employers complaining that they were understaffed because the teenagers weren't applying for jobs. Or they'd get hired, work a couple of weeks and then quit because they had to go to soccer camp or something.

I just find it to be very interesting. In some ways we want them to grow up so quickly and in other ways we enable them to remain dependent upon us.

[Crissy]

Do you think that this lack of "adultness" is based on age alone, or do you think it is a result of our current culture? Just curious.

I think it has much to do with the way we treat younger people as children, expecting little of them until the day they turn 18. Then we want them to go out into the world, having had very few responsibilities up to that point, and somehow succeed as adults.
We are setting them up for failure.

[j.griff]

It is odd, isn't it?
I don't mind the prolongued dependence for *my* kids, so long as it's mutual. I DO want them to have opportunities to experience REAL life while they are young, though. I don't like laws that limit the choices that are available to them. I'd rather my DC be able to have a beer at home while they are young, as opposed to having their first drink at a bar with a bunch of buddies. KWIM?

[Ravin]

I agree (no not about you being weird).

I would be fine with 18 as the drinking age. I think it is rather weird to limit this to only military ppl though. So they reward military service with booze? :001_huh:

I was in the Navy for 6 1/2 years. Policy in liberty ports was to enforce the local drinking age. I remember one kid getting busted for drinking when we were at Saipan; it's a U.S. territory so 21 was the age and he was a week shy of his 18th birthday. The really stupid thing was that two weeks later we were going to be in Darwin, where he could have drunk legally. Instead he was on restriction.

In the U.S. the only place you can drink at 18 in the U.S. Navy is on base in San Diego; this is to discourage going down to Tijuana to drink, which on the whole tends to lead to a whole lot more trouble.

Rum rations were gradually supplanted with coffee rations on U.S. ships in the 19th century. Now, mostly the young sailors drink soft drinks, available from vending machines on ships. We did get a beer call once while underway, when we hadn't been and weren't going to be in port a good long while; everyone not standing watch was allowed 1 beer.

We also wound up having a breathalyzer machine installed on our quarterdeck after a young sailor fell off the helo deck while talking on his cell phone, landing head first on the steel missile deck 12+ feet below and very nearly killing himself. That incident was one part unsupervised drunk wandering around the ship when he should have been escorted to berthing and had an eye kept on him, and one part failure to put the safety nets back up after using the torpedo lift earlier in the day.

SOMETHING needs to be done to undermine the culture of bingeing and excess that too many of today's young people fall into. My plan for raising my own DD is to teach her moderation through example and exhortation and supervised experience.

One thing about the laws I DO object to is that a parent cannot allow their child to drink under their direct supervision. I plan on ignoring it, frankly, at least in the privacy of my own home. There IS a difference between serving wine or beer with dinner and letting the teenager have one drink too and getting them plastered. Doing the latter, especially on a regular basis, is neglectful and/or abusive. The former is not. That the law fails to recognize this is a failure on the part of the law.

[Quiver0f10]

When we lived in Maine and we lived very rural I was thankful my DD could drive so she could help out with errands and when she got a job, I didn't have to drive her back and forth. When you live rural there isn't public transportation either. So, for kids that want or need to work, having a license can be a huge help.

As far as the drinking age, I do think it's silly to be a legal adult at 18 but not be able to drink until 21. However, as a mom to an 18 and19 yo I think they should raise it higher J/K :D

[j.griff]

I think it has much to do with the way we treat younger people as children, expecting little of them until the day they turn 18. Then we want them to go out into the world, having had very few responsibilities up to that point, and somehow succeed as adults.
We are setting them up for failure.

That's my take on it also. In our current culture, I don't see how extending limits on their freedoms will be a 'good' thing. For some it would just take the responsibility for teaching certain skills, away from the parents completely.
:tongue_smilie:

[elegantlion]

It was 18 in Kansas when I was a kid. We always got some friend's big brother to go buy our stuff for us and then we'd haul it back over state lines. (I hope there is a statute of limitations on that kind of information :001_huh:).

I'm not for lowering the drinking age. Part of the issue is that you'd have 18 year olds hanging out in the bars. Do you really want your 18 year old dd hanging out in a bar with gross sweaty drunk 40 year old men trying to hit on her?

Any other activity that is legal at 18 does not impair your thinking like alcohol.

With that said none of my friends waited until 21 to drink. Maybe it should be 21 in bars and 18 in private residences'. IDK? Personally I've had enough bad experience with alcohol both dh and I gave it up.

[*anj*]

There IS a difference between serving wine or beer with dinner and letting the teenager have one drink too and getting them plastered. Doing the latter, especially on a regular basis, is neglectful and/or abusive. The former is not. That the law fails to recognize this is a failure on the part of the law.

I agree. There is an appropriate way to introduce it. It's all part of home educating, isn't it? Homeschoolers for Hooch? How about that? :lol::lol::lol:

No, seriously...when I was growing up I was allowed to have small amounts of wine and beer for as long as I can remember. If wine was served on a holiday, I got a small serving (I mean an ounce or two.) I can remember my mom saying "This is a privilege. If you start acting silly or inappropriately we will take it away." That was cool. And my dad would drink a beer after dinner almost every night. He would pour it into a frosty mug and sometimes he'd let me drink the last ounce or so that didn't fit into the mug. He also taught me how to pour a beer without a head, which is a handy skill! :D Oh, and I did have a healthy respect for alcohol, especially when I was underage and living at home. I was less responsible for awhile when I went to college, but not for long because I detest nausea and bed spins. Easy lesson!

[LizzyBee]

When I turned 18 in MD, it was legal to drink wine and beer at 18 and hard liquor at 21. Since the age was raised to 21 for all alcohol, I don't think underage drinking has declined. I think it's pretty silly that 18-20 year olds can get married, earn a living, enlist in the military, but can't legally have a beer or glass of wine with dinner.

[OnEaglesWings]

I haven't read all the posts, so maybe this point was made already. I've read that there is a medical/physiological (not just social) reason for a higher drinking age: the brain is not finished developing fully until the mid-20s. Alcohol use (use and/or abuse) prior to this irreversibly damages those developing brain cells. If this is true, then 18yos are not adults.

Another point to consider is that a lot of 15 and 16 year olds look 18. Lower the drinking age to 18 and THEY will be buying liquor. Or their 18 yo high school buddies will be buying it for them.

Just a few thoughts. I hate alcohol and how it destroys people and families. If you haven't experienced the fallout of alcoholism, you have no idea how damaging alcohol can be. There's almost nothing good about it. I personally would be happier in a "dry" society! Can't imagine it...but I'd be happier! ;)

[j.griff]

I have alcoholic relatives in my family, and their behavior/choices have definitely directly affected me. So, I have experienced this "fallout". I disagree with the statement "there is almost nothing good about it."

[mcconnellboys]

I don't think the legal drinking age should be lowered. If parents drink alcohol of various sorts at family meals and want to occasionally share watered down versions of that with children, which is common in Europe, then I have no problem with that. I think that allowing some tasting of this does prevent the aura of a forbidden fruit and take away the incentive to try to drink in secret. We were satisfied with that growing up and I never even drank until after I went to college and was legal age. My own older son seems perfectly satisfied with that, as well.

[OnEaglesWings]

I have alcoholic relatives in my family, and their behavior/choices have definitely directly affected me. So, I have experienced this "fallout". I disagree with the statement "there is almost nothing good about it."

I meant there is almost nothing good about alcohol. Not alcholism. There is NOTHING good about alcoholism. I hope I didn't offend. I too have experienced the fallout first-hand. Nothing good at all.

[j.griff]

Yeh, I knew what you meant. I disagree though :D

[Old Dominion Heather]

If the gov't is going to pick and age for driving/drinking, why couldn't it be an either/or type thing.

When you are 16, you can choose either a driver's license or an ID to drink... not both. Whichever you choose, you have to wait until you are 18 to get the other.

On the down side, we could have some inexperienced drivers who are also hardened drinkers.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have minimum ages. I do agree with lowering the drinking age to at least 18 if not lower.

I think the driving age should be lowered, too... but they should make it harder to get a license. Maybe a permit at 14 and license at 16?

[Tracey in TX]

18 is too young except for those in the military. On any military base an 18y/o military personnel can be served regardless of state requirements. However, off base the state laws are respected.

I would strongly encourage the age to be significantly lower (following Europe's example) OR maintaining the 21y/o status. I lived on the WI-IL border in high school back when it was 18y/o in WI, but 21y/o in IL. I supplied many parties with alcohol as I was old enough to buy in the next town/state. That is NOT what we want for our youth. Either readily supply it when they're young so there is no mystique and excitement, or offer the opportunity when they're old enough to make wise decisions--nothing in between. (I'd prefer to keep it as 21y/o) IMHO, of course :)

[Unicorn]

Personally, I think it should be raised! To at least 26! I also think you should have to have a license to drink. Take a class, watch really awful movies w/ families and children who are killed by drunk drivers, etc. Then, and only then can you get your drinking license.

Think about it. If someone gets behind the wheel after smoking a cigerette, it's not putting my family or yours in danger. When someone gets behind the wheel after drinking, well, we all know who ends up paying the price, don't we? And yet.....oil companies and the alcohol industry- cut from the same cloth, imnsho.

OK, commence flames- I'm in my fire retardent suit! :D

[Colleen]

I strongly support lowering the drinking age for many of the reasons already cited in this thread. I find it wholly illogical, the mixed message we send our youth. We allow them to drive, which imo is a huge responsibility (and I advocate a higher age limit for licensed drivers). We expect them to make vital decisions about their future regarding their education and employment. We allow them to serve in the military. In sum, we essentially imply that once they're 18 and out of high school, they're "grown up". And then we turn around and slap $500 fines on people as old as 20 for underage drinking? Ridiculous.

I have no concern whatsoever that a lower drinking age will result in more irresponsible behavior on the part of young people. I believe the reality would be just the opposite.

[j.griff]

Not everyone who drinks, drives while UI. Following this line of thinking, everyone should have to take a class in order to have sex, because when someone who has an STD has sex, it harms people. And actually, when people smoke, we know that's harmful (second hand smoke). Everyone should have to take a class to learn to cook, because of cross-contamination, undercooking, etc. there are many dangers to others when people mishandle/undercook food. Everyone should have to take a class before they are allowed to buy/use matches/lighters/fire in general- because SOME people are stupid and cause house fires, forest fires, etc.
And, following that line of thought- you shouldn't be able to Homeschool unless you're a certified teacher. :D

[Tammyla]

I agree anyone serving their country should be able to order a drink when off duty. However, when I was a teen in Germany lots of teens drank, but we rode the bus. I'd love to see the driving age increased, not to mention less cars on the rode. Here some teens can begin as early as 14 and the regular permit is issued on their 15th birthday.

[summer]

I think it is irresponsible to drink at any age. But I also think it is silly that when someone is old enough that they are considered responsible for ALL their bills and die for their country and everything else, they should be allowed to purchase their own alcohol.

[j.griff]

I find this idea interesting "it is irresponsible to drink at any age". Why? Do you mean "it is irresponsible to become intoxicated/drunk at any age"? Or something else? Or do you really think that having one glass of wine, or half a glass of wine, with a dinner at home is really, truly completely irresponsible?

[Colleen]

I think it is irresponsible to drink at any age.

Why?

[Janet in WA]

When I was 18 (in the mid '70's), Florida briefly lowered the drinking age to 18. I went to college in Missippi, and at that same time, they allowed 18 year olds to drink 3.2 beer (but nothing stronger). In my estimation, the impact was neither good nor bad. Florida raised the limit back to 21 after a few years, but I'm not sure why.

[Crissy]

I think it is irresponsible to drink at any age.

You do understand that there is an enormous difference between drinking and getting drunk, do you not?

I actually know only a handful of people who drink irresponsibly, yet most of the adults I know do drink alcohol.

[Caroline]

I mean, I understand that if you are old enough to go to war you should be old enough to choose to drink alcohol. What I don't understand is why laws regarding drinking age should be different for those who enlist in the military. I don't agree with the premise that because you enlist in the military suddenly you are a responsible adult when everyone else your age is not. I don't believe that is true from what I have seen of my DBIL's men. While I believe a drinking age of 21 is a farce, I don't think people in the military should be given special consideration.

[Janet in WA]

I don't agree with the premise that because you enlist in the military suddenly you are a responsible adult when everyone else your age is not.I think that's a pretty lame rationale too.

[j.griff]

I can understand the idea- you are responsible enough to work on/operate multi-million dollar equipment, handle massively destructive weapons, use them, etc. then you are a bit more responsible than other 18yo's, in the sense of your commitment (4year enlistment), responsibilities to others (you HAVE To do your job correctly and WELL or people die), etc.
BUT, IME, there is a large population of sailors with DUI's. Sad but true.

[j.griff]

Also, military personnel go through LOTS of training that civilians don't go through.

[Colleen]

What I don't understand is why laws regarding drinking age should be different for those who enlist in the military...I don't believe that is true from what I have seen of my DBIL's men. While I believe a drinking age of 21 is a farce, I don't think people in the military should be given special consideration.

:iagree:

[WendyK]

I don't understand the concept of giving special drinking privileges to military personnel. Some people here have used the argument that they have more responsibility than the average 18 year old. There are lots of non military 18 year olds who also have more responsibility than their peers. I don't understand that argument. If anything, maybe everyone else, but the military should be drinking. I don't know if booze and military are even a good mix. If I were in a war situation I would probably be drawn to drinking to get through it. And that isn't good. They are supposed to be more alert and on their toes right?

[Janet in WA]

Also, military personnel go through LOTS of training that civilians don't go through.I grew up in a Navy town. It was not my experience that this training did one thing to make young men drink more responsibly.

[j.griff]

I already said that IME, there are a LOT of sailors with DUI's, I was just adding why I understand the "idea" that military members are "more responsible". Yes, they are more responsible in some aspects, BUT lots join the military to get out of legal trouble, etc., and they still make poor everyday decisions like everyone else. I'm not saying I agree that they are "more responsible", just saying I understand why some may think that. Also, I understand the concept that sailors that are 18 are currently allowed to drink on base, it cuts down on the DUI's, most of the guys that work with DH that have had DUI's, were arrested coming through the front gate. If they don't have to "go out" to drink, it cuts the risks. KWIM? It doesn't "eliminate" poor choices, and all risk, but it cuts down on the "amount" of people out making poor choices which involve drunk driving. Whew. :D

[Shanna]

I see nothing wrong with lowering it to 18.

[Tracey in TX]

I think it is irresponsible to drink at any age. But I also think it is silly that when someone is old enough that they are considered responsible for ALL their bills and die for their country and everything else, they should be allowed to purchase their own alcohol.

WHY is it irresponsible to consume alcohol? Is this a moral judgement or a belief that a drink equates to alcoholism?

[Kate CA]

People can enlist at 18, smoke at 18 and vote at 18... it makes little sense to me to have a different age for drinking. It's 18 here in Alberta. Kids that are over 18 who live near the border usually just cross the border to drink legally (whether or not they do it responsibly is another question all together). Those who drink irresponsibly will do it (and do all of the time) no matter what age they are, how illegal it is or how stupid it is. There are those who are responsible drinkers at any age though also.

Goodness... some people don't vote responsibly at any age either but it's still legal because there are also plenty of people who do vote responsibly! :tongue_smilie:

I could have written this exact thing! I just don't honestly understand the do everything BUT drink until you are 21 idea. It makes no sense to me.

I would even go so far as to say that I don't really think regulating private alcohol consumption is necessarily the place of the government. I mean I understand *why* they do it, but if alcohol was not such a big "no no" would it be so desired? I know the same argument could be made about drugs and I am not entirely sure how I feel about that. :) I guess I am for freedom if it is possible--the question being, is it possible in areas like this?

Good thread!

[Momto4kids]

I think it is irresponsible to drink at any age.


Huh? :001_huh: Can you explain this statement?

[Kris]

As an old lady, I don't like the idea. But realistically, why not? I drank more between 18 and 21 on a fake ID than I ever did after I turned 21. When I lived in Montana the legal age was 18 (I guess they've probably changed it since then).

[Alenee]

Just a thought that crossed my mind. I see the point about being "legally" an adult at 18yo so why can't they drink too but I'm curious what kind of position this would put the public schools in. Here in WA, the enrollment age for kindergarten is 5yo by September 1st and each year after that. This means for instance that if my girls were in ps, they would be able to drink while in their senior year. I think it sure would put quite a burden on the ps system when ps's already have too big a burden. What say you all????

[j.griff]

I don't see how that would be any kind of burden for the schools. Teens already drink on weekends, etc.

[*anj*]

My dh mentioned a similar concern about teens and high school parties. I, for instance turned 18 in January of my senior year of high school. If I'd been legally allowed to purchase alcohol I would've done so. I would've taken it to parties and I would've given it to 15 or 16 year olds. I'm not saying that's good or right, but I'm telling you that I would've done it.

When the legal age for drinking is 21 there will automatically be fewer young teens who will have access to someone who is "legal." This was the case for me. I didn't know any 21 year olds who would've supplied me with alcohol. Now of course the whole picture drifts upward because the 21 year olds can and do buy for 18-20 year olds in college. And though that is illegal, I can somehow handle it better on a college campus than at a high school party.

Also, I think that some people will just abuse alcohol whether they have access at 15, 18, or 21. The majority will learn early on that vomiting and bed spins are not fun and will learn to drink temperately. I made a lot of mistakes early on in college, but I did learn. Ideally they would all learn to drink responsibly and everything would be fine, but there is no way to legislate maturity.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

it's not the alcohol that's the problem, it's the irresponsibility of some (parents, students, other adults) to handle it. I, personally, don't drink because of the history of severe alcoholism in my extended family, but, I don't have a problem with others drinking socially.

I do have a problem with not teaching responsibility to teenagers so that they are equipped to handle things like drinking (I could throw in driving, dating, working, etc.) If we teach our dc responsibility, and they show themselves trustworthy with that responsibility, then, I don't think an 18 year old having an occasional beer or glass of wine is an issue. But, unfortunately, we live in a society where some people will not take responsibility for their actions and they are passing it on to our children.

I think there should be stricter dui, dwi laws and that they should be enforced across the board no matter who you are. No exceptions. That is part of teaching responsibility. Other countries have these laws, and don't have the issues we have with dui and dwi, and their drinking ages are lower or non-exsistent.

That's my opinion FWIW.

[KidsHappen]

One thing about the laws I DO object to is that a parent cannot allow their child to drink under their direct supervision. I plan on ignoring it, frankly, at least in the privacy of my own home. There IS a difference between serving wine or beer with dinner and letting the teenager have one drink too and getting them plastered. Doing the latter, especially on a regular basis, is neglectful and/or abusive. The former is not. That the law fails to recognize this is a failure on the part of the law.


In WI it is legal to serve your own child alcohol, at least it was when I lived there. I believe this is also the case in a few other states. Not legal in TN so I won't discuss our family's policy. I have lived in other countries where there was no legal drinking age so that may have rubbed off on me.

[*anj*]

I do have a problem with not teaching responsibility to teenagers so that they are equipped to handle things like drinking (I could throw in driving, dating, working, etc.) If we teach our dc responsibility, and they show themselves trustworthy with that responsibility, then, I don't think an 18 year old having an occasional beer or glass of wine is an issue. But, unfortunately, we live in a society where some people will not take responsibility for their actions and they are passing it on to our children.


Absolutely. I think it would be a great compromise to allow 18-20 year olds to drink in the privacy of their own homes, but not to purchase it. Of course there are idiotic parents who would abuse that, but I think that it would be good if young people could learn to relate to alcohol in a healthy way by having it at home.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

you should be old enough to drink. We allow 16 year olds to operate a 2K lb vehicle and no one blinks an eye, but there is controversy over letting an 18 yo drink? I don't get it.

K

[Kathy in MD]

So, you're old enough to have a child or have children, and you've been old enough for a few years now, but you're not an adult?
Do you think that this lack of "adultness" is based on age alone, or do you think it is a result of our current culture? Just curious.

I think it's a result of immature brains. Research is bearing that out that the brain is not mature until about 24-25 years.

Many will say the late maturing brain is a result of our current culture, but let's look at history (a shocking thing for this group). Our founding fathers did not feel that a well educated, wealthy individual was old enough to vote until he was 21 years old. To actually serve in office, the individual needed to be even older. Virginia did not feel an individual (male or female) was old enough to get married WITHOUT their parent's permission until they were 21. (I don't know about all the other states.) Obviously something so important needed more mature brains and judgement. Young men typically didn't receive control of their inherentances until 21 or later.

Now that same time period had no qualms about using the youngs' strong backs. And in some social classes and areas, need relaxed these laws. But obviously our highly educated and thoughtful founders saw a difference in the judgement of an 18 yo and a 21 yo man.

BTW, my df, a WWII vet, always said that the military wanted 18 yo's because the 18 yo hadn't developed a sense of his mortality. My df saw his buddies volunteer for dangerous assignments. They would be warned that only a few would survive, yet each one invariably thought that *he* would be the one to survive. It was the others who would die. The older enlisted were not so eager.

[Kathy in MD]

Well, I think that the lack of "adultness" is more the result of our current culture. We refer to young people as "kids" until they're in their late 20's. Even beyond the teen years we treat them as if they were still children in our home. Recently I've noticed how few teens spend their summers working. It seems that lately many teenagers play sports and go to camp all summer whereas 25-30 years ago most of us had summer jobs. If you played a varsity sport maybe you'd spend a week at a special camp or you'd quit your job a couple of weeks early in August so that you could start practicing, but beyond that we all worked. Last summer I heard of many local employers complaining that they were understaffed because the teenagers weren't applying for jobs. Or they'd get hired, work a couple of weeks and then quit because they had to go to soccer camp or something.

I just find it to be very interesting. In some ways we want them to grow up so quickly and in other ways we enable them to remain dependent upon us.

Some of my classmatesin the early '70s did work, however a large number of the kids that I grew up with didn't. Some of those who didn't work outside the "home" did have farm chores. Probably all of us had lots of chores around the house, but I don't remember that many working. BTW, I didn't grow up in a wealthy community either.

[Kathy in MD]

One thing about the laws I DO object to is that a parent cannot allow their child to drink under their direct supervision. I plan on ignoring it, frankly, at least in the privacy of my own home. There IS a difference between serving wine or beer with dinner and letting the teenager have one drink too and getting them plastered. Doing the latter, especially on a regular basis, is neglectful and/or abusive. The former is not. That the law fails to recognize this is a failure on the part of the law.

My understanding is that it is legal inmany states to serve alchohol to your own child in your own home in many states. It's not well advertised, so check your state's laws.

[Kathy in MD]

WHY is it irresponsible to consume alcohol? Is this a moral judgement or a belief that a drink equates to alcoholism?

I think that a large number of the objections are moral, many more are based on the results of drunk driving. Personally I'm opposed to my ds drinking until he's 24 or so because a young brain still developing is more likely to become chemically addicted to *anything* than a more mature brain that is growing and changing at a slower pace.

[Alenee]

There's a lot of talk here about being able to serve your children in the privacy of your own home. My question though is why would you want to give your child anything that you *know* can lead to addiction? I don't think any of us would give our kid a cigarette. So why is alcohol different? Both are highly addictive substances...I just don't get it.

And to add to my question about 18 yo seniors in hs and the burden it might put on ps's, my thoughts on this are that you have an 18yo who can legally drink so what's to stop them from deciding to toss back a few before school or at lunch or bring it with them and stash it in their locker or backpack? The burden as I see it would be, how would a school enforce this? They'd have to have some kind of check system, but then I imagine someone would say that's violating privacy, yet they have to be able to keep the schools alcohol-free. As it stands now, it's illegal so the schools can take action...I see that there would have to be new laws put into effect and people on campus watching more closely which means the schools would be crying for more money so they can staff this watch-dog program. Do none of you see where this could go?

I'm for leaving the drinking age where it stands for the reasons Kathy in MD mentioned about maturity.

[Holly IN]

If you can vote, marry and die for your country at the age of 18 then you should be privvy to adult privileges.

I have no problem with it.

Holly

[j.griff]

Candy can be addictive, FOOD in general can be addictive, so can reading, using computers, etc. ANYthing can be addictive, some things are just "socially" accepted addictions, and some are not.
Wine and beer CAN be beneficial healthwise, in moderation. Serving such things to your children at home, is more likely to teach them moderation- than having them experiment on their own and hiding it.
It's a "personal" decision, and lots of people are making value judgements. :)

As far as I know, it'd be easy to apply "public intoxication" laws to 18yo seniors, and I doubt that it's legal to consume alcoholic beverages on school property, in most schools.