Just a minor temper tantrum

[Cadam]

don't mind me....

I hate TERC Investigations. It is a horrible crime perpetrated against the youth of this country. The more I look at it (and Everyday Math) the more I think the creators were either touched in the head or have some evil world domination scheme that includes handicapping the education of the majority of the American citizenry.

It is a horrible, terrible, rotten program.

I wisely deleted the rest of this rant, but you get the gist of it I'm sure.

[EKS]

I wisely deleted the rest of this rant, but you get the gist of it I'm sure.

I would have loved to have read it!

I hate Investigations too. It is a major reason that we homeschool, and for the life of me I can't understand why the parents in our community tolerate it.

[justamouse]

I would have loved to have read it!
I read it, and googled! Neer! :D

Though I see why she clipped it. ;)

[Cadam]

I read it, and googled! Neer! :D

Though I see why she clipped it. ;)

What did you google?

[regentrude]

I hate Investigations too. It is a major reason that we homeschool,.

:iagree: It was what pushed us off the fence and towards homeschooling, too.

[JenniferB]

I don't know about Investigations, but Everyday Math is used in our school district. I do not like it. We're doing part-time ps next year for middle school, 7th grade, and math is one of the subjects dd will take. They use College Preperatory Math (http://www.cpm.org/). I hope it's good. I haven't had a chance to look into it yet, but I intend to before we actually sign up.

[Alessandra]

don't mind me....

I hate TERC Investigations. It is a horrible crime perpetrated against the youth of this country. The more I look at it (and Everyday Math) the more I think the creators were either touched in the head or have some evil world domination scheme that includes handicapping the education of the majority of the American citizenry.

It is a horrible, terrible, rotten program.

I wisely deleted the rest of this rant, but you get the gist of it I'm sure.

Yup. What you said. Our school uses Everyday Math. Even for kids with LD.

This oldie but goodie is always refreshing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI

[Cadam]

Yup. What you said. Our school uses Everyday Math. Even for kids with LD.

This oldie but goodie is always refreshing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI

Yep. Actually seeing the books for myself was enlightening as well. For a laugh I like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfCJgC2zezw

[BabyBre]

:iagree: I would LOVE to comiserate about the evils of Investigations! I do feel it's a criminal deception, and parents have become FAR too apathetic in this country. They can all see something's up when their 2nd graders bring home math parents can't help them with.

GTG, but I'll be back!

[Cadam]

:iagree: I would LOVE to comiserate about the evils of Investigations! I do feel it's a criminal deception, and parents have become FAR too apathetic in this country. They can all see something's up when their 2nd graders bring home math parents can't help them with.

GTG, but I'll be back!

I wish I knew what to do about it without making every school employe hate me.

[Karin]

Yep. Actually seeing the books for myself was enlightening as well. For a laugh I like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfCJgC2zezw

:lol:My eldest can do math in any base from 2-10, thanks to Gelfand's Algebra. The way math is taught from K-6 is one of the reason's we're at home.

[HappyCamper]

As my daughter sits here trying to do her Investigations homework, I wonder what damage it is inflicting. We do Math-U-See at home to give her a strong foundation. I am hoping her math at school is just sort a fun exercise and not confusing her. . . .

[LittleIzumi]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[mcconnellboys]

Bingo! You've hit the nail on the head. I actually have come to believe that dumbing down America is on the agenda.....

[Ravin]

I don't get why they spend so much time on geometry, etc. at such an early age when, if you focus on the basic operations, that other stuff can be picked up in a fraction of the time in upper elementary? And why break up addition and stop at three digit numbers, as if they can't figure out how to had 4-digit numbers following the same rules?

It definitely drags things out and spends a lot more time getting to the point about a lot less content than the vintage textbook we're using. I could understand if it was teaching mathematical thinking the way Rightstart or Singapore does, but it doesn't seem to. It just assumes the kids aren't going to understand place value without a hundred sticker activities...

And that's what I got from looking at the overview for 2nd-3rd grade for 10 minutes.:tongue_smilie:

[ElizabethB]

I wish I knew what to do about it without making every school employe hate me.

:iagree:

That and balanced literacy.

Yet, if you become bitter, it does not help. I believe that part of the reason that Flesch was not more successful was that he was so mean about teachers in his books. Yet, it is hard not to blame him, the teachers attacked him and did not listen to him for years and years, he unsuccessfully fought them for over 20 years.

I prefer to place the blame on the system, it is a big part of the problem and you do not upset many people if you blame the system, just the die-hards!

Also, I think of William Wilberforce. He fought for years and persevered without getting bitter.

[Cadam]

:iagree:

That and balanced literacy.

Yet, if you become bitter, it does not help. I believe that part of the reason that Flesch was not more successful was that he was so mean about teachers in his books. Yet, it is hard not to blame him, the teachers attacked him and did not listen to him for years and years, he unsuccessfully fought them for over 20 years.

I prefer to place the blame on the system, it is a big part of the problem and you do not upset many people if you blame the system, just the die-hards!

Also, I think of William Wilberforce. He fought for years and persevered without getting bitter.

I have similar feelings about "balanced Literacy", but maybe more severe because if people can read at least they can pick up a book and teach themselves math! My kids will know how to read before they step across the threshold of a school. period.

I don't know how long little one will be in school. It might just be for Kindergarten but regardless, she will know how to read (up to basic cvc words already!:D ) and she will have a basic understanding of numbers and place value. (Thank you Mr. Demme!). I even taught decimal street to the neighbor girl a few weeks ago. I am doing what I can to corrupt the youth of my block don't you know.:lol:

[BabyBre]

Yet, if you become bitter, it does not help. I believe that part of the reason that Flesch was not more successful was that he was so mean about teachers in his books. Yet, it is hard not to blame him, the teachers attacked him and did not listen to him for years and years, he unsuccessfully fought them for over 20 years.

I prefer to place the blame on the system, it is a big part of the problem and you do not upset many people if you blame the system, just the die-hards!




:iagree: The blame absolutely DOES NOT belong on teachers. That's how you keep them from "hating" you - you understand that, despite how they come across at the offset, they just want to help children and they're severely limited on how they can do that by their district and state (and soon to be federal) laws. If you subtly make it clear to them that you understand this, you'll be allowed "in".

This book written by a parent in our school district helped me see that my teachers are not at the head of the problem. They're put in the middle as scapegoats.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1610480457/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[justamouse]

What did you google?

TERC. Trec? I dunno. Cause I had *no* idea what you were talking about.

[justamouse]

Yup. What you said. Our school uses Everyday Math. Even for kids with LD.

This oldie but goodie is always refreshing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI


Get the hell out.

For *real*? That is the way they are being taught?

[Cadam]

:iagree: The blame absolutely DOES NOT belong on teachers. That's how you keep them from "hating" you - you understand that, despite how they come across at the offset, they just want to help children and they're severely limited on how they can do that by their district and state (and soon to be federal) laws. If you subtly make it clear to them that you understand this, you'll be allowed "in".

This book written by a parent in our school district helped me see that my teachers are not at the head of the problem. They're put in the middle as scapegoats.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1610480457/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

They are for sure not the problem. I think that some of them have been indoctrinated into this stuff from their teacher colleges but I have met many a teacher who isn't thrilled with the program. Those decisions are made from on high and the teachers have to tow the line.

Get the hell out.

For *real*? That is the way they are being taught?

Ya. The thing is, in some ways the intent is good. They are trying to help the kids understand what they are really doing. They are trying to point out that in:
365
x 25
______

is really 5x5, then 5x60, then 5x300, then 20x5, 20x60 and 20x300.

Kids should understand this. Singapore math and MUS (the two programs I use) very clearly show this and make sure the kids understand it...... and then immediately turn around and teach the standard algorithm. The convoluted ways that EM and TERC have the kids doing problems is slow and error prone because it adds so many steps.

Add to that very little concentration on the basic operations, a total disregard for memorizing facts and a huge emphasis on topics that are not central to math knowledge at this age (whole units on geometry topics) and you have a recipe for disaster.

[regentrude]

The blame absolutely DOES NOT belong on teachers.

:iagree:
The teachers are powerless. They have no input in the choice of curriculum.
They are not allowed to separate students by level (our 5th and 6th grade math teachers told us they so wished they could - and with six math teachers for each grade at the school it would not have cost a penny).

No, i don't blame the teachers - their hands are tied.

[AmyinMD]

:iagree:
The teachers are powerless. They have no input in the choice of curriculum.
They are not allowed to separate students by level (our 5th and 6th grade math teachers told us they so wished they could - and with six math teachers for each grade at the school it would not have cost a penny).

No, i don't blame the teachers - their hands are tied.


I don't blame the teachers either. They really have no choice what they teach in class.

Our district used TERC the last 3 years and thanks to public outcry just changed curriculums and it's supposed to be out of the schools by the end of the year. Luckily it never got into the middle or high schools. I feel much better possibly sending my younger ds to the grade school now. Here's the website that was started in our county against TERC math. I forget what they are switching to but I think it's Harcourt. I was a little worried it might be something like Everyday Math.

http://www.stopterc.com/

[Karin]

Ya. The thing is, in some ways the intent is good. They are trying to help the kids understand what they are really doing. They are trying to point out that in:
365
x 25
______

is really 5x5, then 5x60, then 5x300, then 20x5, 20x60 and 20x300.

Kids should understand this. Singapore math and MUS (the two programs I use) very clearly show this and make sure the kids understand it...... and then immediately turn around and teach the standard algorithm. The convoluted ways that EM and TERC have the kids doing problems is slow and error prone because it adds so many steps.




Exactly--teach the concept well in another way, but then teach the alogrithm!!!

Teachers hands are tied, even the ones who have been indoctrinated into this method. I met a middle aged teacher who loves the lattice method. She loves to teach math and is good at it, so I suspect that the dc in her class will learn better from her than from a teacher who hates to teach math. I'm not sure what they use here, but dd didn't use either of those when she was in ps for K-2, however she may have been in school before those were widespread, at least for the TERC.

[EKS]

Ya. The thing is, in some ways the intent is good. They are trying to help the kids understand what they are really doing. They are trying to point out that in:
365
x 25
______

is really 5x5, then 5x60, then 5x300, then 20x5, 20x60 and 20x300.

Kids should understand this. Singapore math and MUS (the two programs I use) very clearly show this and make sure the kids understand it...... and then immediately turn around and teach the standard algorithm. The convoluted ways that EM and TERC have the kids doing problems is slow and error prone because it adds so many steps.

Add to that very little concentration on the basic operations, a total disregard for memorizing facts and a huge emphasis on topics that are not central to math knowledge at this age (whole units on geometry topics) and you have a recipe for disaster.

The reform programs are actually trying to be like the Asian programs. It's just that they didn't go all the way. They added in the conceptual stuff, which is great, but that's where they stopped.

[Cadam]

I don't blame the teachers either. They really have no choice what they teach in class.

Our district used TERC the last 3 years and thanks to public outcry just changed curriculums and it's supposed to be out of the schools by the end of the year. Luckily it never got into the middle or high schools. I feel much better possibly sending my younger ds to the grade school now. Here's the website that was started in our county against TERC math. I forget what they are switching to but I think it's Harcourt. I was a little worried it might be something like Everyday Math.

http://www.stopterc.com/

How did they organize? I would love to find other parents who are against this program but I don't know how.

[justamouse]

They are for sure not the problem. I think that some of them have been indoctrinated into this stuff from their teacher colleges but I have met many a teacher who isn't thrilled with the program. Those decisions are made from on high and the teachers have to tow the line.



Ya. The thing is, in some ways the intent is good. They are trying to help the kids understand what they are really doing. They are trying to point out that in:
365
x 25
______

is really 5x5, then 5x60, then 5x300, then 20x5, 20x60 and 20x300.

Kids should understand this. Singapore math and MUS (the two programs I use) very clearly show this and make sure the kids understand it...... and then immediately turn around and teach the standard algorithm. The convoluted ways that EM and TERC have the kids doing problems is slow and error prone because it adds so many steps.

Add to that very little concentration on the basic operations, a total disregard for memorizing facts and a huge emphasis on topics that are not central to math knowledge at this age (whole units on geometry topics) and you have a recipe for disaster.

I use Singapore and immediately saw the correlation as to what they were trying to accomplish-but without the key components, it seems. Like you said, they need that algorithm, too.

This is the curric our local school uses. The kids that I've watched try to do this math--now I understand why I was so frustrated in trying to help them.

[BabyBre]

Get the hell out.

For *real*? That is the way they are being taught?

:lol: Yes it is! I send that video out to anyone and everyone I think will watch it because that's the eye-opening reaction it gets!



Add to that very little concentration on the basic operations, a total disregard for memorizing facts and a huge emphasis on topics that are not central to math knowledge at this age (whole units on geometry topics) and you have a recipe for disaster.


To this, I have this story I just learned today. Ds8's 3rd grade teacher has asked me to do nothing during my volunteer time except drill multiplication facts with the kids. I spend anywhere from 10-30 minutes per week with almost every child, tracking their progress and moving them toward mastery. The second trimester district assessment results between the two 3rd grade classes were SO disperate, they caught the attention of our TERC-loving principal.

Keep in mind that I have sat across from this man, advocating for my children, and listened to him knock down everything I had to say about math, defending TERC methods with his very being. These scores caught his attention so that he called both 3rd grade teachers in for a conference to "figure out" what my ds's teacher is doing that the other is not. DUH! Math!

TERC is SO incredibly deficient in basics that a mere 10-30 minutes per week (plus one practice sheet of facts in the weekly homework packet) is making immense differences in performance. Ds's teacher said that if the kids were ranked according to their score, almost all her kids were ahead of almost all of the other class's - meaning even most of her lowest performing students outscored most of his highest performers!

Yet our district is absolutely married to TERC and reform. Here's what they did when a friend of mine tried to get a public group together merely to talk about the curriculum: http://betrayed-whyeducationisfailing.blogspot.com/2011/02/district-tries-to-silence-dissenting.html There's way more to it than a belief in the methods.

[BabyBre]

Just read this article that explains the problem well.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2003674945_sundaymath22.html

[ElizabethB]

I have similar feelings about "balanced Literacy", but maybe more severe because if people can read at least they can pick up a book and teach themselves math! My kids will know how to read before they step across the threshold of a school. period.

I don't know how long little one will be in school. It might just be for Kindergarten but regardless, she will know how to read (up to basic cvc words already!:D ) and she will have a basic understanding of numbers and place value. (Thank you Mr. Demme!). I even taught decimal street to the neighbor girl a few weeks ago. I am doing what I can to corrupt the youth of my block don't you know.:lol:
:iagree:

I started out tutoring in math. I switched to phonics when I moved somewhere without a math tutoring problem. When I found out how bad the phonics problem was, I switched to that. Since reading is more foundational than math, I'm sticking with mainly phonics and a bit of math tutoring.

I also "corrupt" the youth of my block, and everyone I talk to for longer than 5 minutes...

I also agree with a lot of other folks, and what people have said about a few parts of the new math being good, just poor set up and implementation.

I helped with math homework for a while about 4 years ago, the school used some crazy math, I'm pretty sure it was some of those programs. Some of the things that were being taught were helpful for *my* understanding of math, but their understanding of the basics was so small that it just left them more bewildered and confused. We were only going to be in the area for a year, there were plenty of volunteers, and I couldn't get the people in charge to allow me to spend a few minutes with each student working on basics, so I stopped tutoring with this program and found other people I could truly help, not just get through their next crazy homework assignment.

[NJKelli]

Our 3rd grade dd's ps uses Everyday Math, and I don't know how long it's been since they spent any time on basic multiplication facts.:glare:

I keep thinking how much ground we've lost since she started ps in January. Fortunately, though, she's happier. I just tell myself we're putting math on the back burner now.

[Karin]

Last night I learned that they use Everyday math in the elementary schools here. I don't think they did 8-10 years ago when dd was in ps elementary, but they do now. Ick!

[BabyBre]

How did they organize? I would love to find other parents who are against this program but I don't know how.

Christina, where are you located? I know there are MANY groups that have organized all over the country against TERC and other reform programs. I have a friend in the national know, and I can ask her if she knows of one near you. (You can pm me.)

[ondreeuh]

I'm sorry - but CPM was the reason that I (and several other parents) pulled our 7th graders out of math. Our parent community lobbied the school board to switch to traditional math, and they finally did, but not until the end of my dd's 8th grade year. We did Chalk Dust algebra at home. CPM is more of the same stuff as Everyday Math. "Discovery" apprach, no real direct instruction, stupid math (guess-and-check was a "strategy" that the program kept pushing) and as a parent, I had NO TOOLS to help my daughter when she couldn't understand what to do. The book didn't have definitions or examples to help and she went from good in math to giving up and feeling stupid.

[Momling]

I had to teach "Mathland" years ago and found it was both exciting and disturbing at the same time. Like TERC (which is used here too) I can understand what they are *trying* to do. They're trying to focus on number sense and make sure that kids understand math conceptually. What they completely miss out on is the procedure. So the students end up being completely inefficient in figuring out any math problem because they've never been any algorithm -- borrowing, carrying, multiplying, long division. It's all supposed to be done on 100 charts or number lines or by drawing pictures.

Plus, so, so, so much time is just wasted on insipid busywork. My younger daughter has a math class with Investigations and my older has done the 2nd and 3rd grade book before I pulled her out. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to gouge out my eyeballs when I find them being told to "show 523" by drawing dots, or going around the house (at 3rd grade!) to draw pictures of squares they found, or in first grade having to explain in a sentence how you know that 4 + 2 is 6. :banghead:

[hmschooling]

I had to teach "Mathland" years ago and found it was both exciting and disturbing at the same time. Like TERC (which is used here too) I can understand what they are *trying* to do. They're trying to focus on number sense and make sure that kids understand math conceptually. What they completely miss out on is the procedure. So the students end up being completely inefficient in figuring out any math problem because they've never been any algorithm -- borrowing, carrying, multiplying, long division. It's all supposed to be done on 100 charts or number lines or by drawing pictures.

Plus, so, so, so much time is just wasted on insipid busywork. My younger daughter has a math class with Investigations and my older has done the 2nd and 3rd grade book before I pulled her out. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to gouge out my eyeballs when I find them being told to "show 523" by drawing dots, or going around the house (at 3rd grade!) to draw pictures of squares they found, or in first grade having to explain in a sentence how you know that 4 + 2 is 6. :banghead:

My 4th grader is drawing dots for EVERYTHING. Drives me bonkers. They are learning about thirds and quarters right now and figuring out perimeter by counting grid squares...seems like that's all a bit "young" to me. My son is very mathy and in 1st grade...can do much of my 4th graders work mentally. Yes, he has trouble trying to get his basic math on paper...like tellling how he knows 5 plus 5 is 10 or why a shape is a square.

My 4th grader has done NO foundational concepts this semester...I've seen some subtraction. That's all. Then suddenly there are worksheets with big multiplication problems on them. :001_huh: Her teacher told me that TERC only teaches about 1 in 5 of the concepts in our state stanards, and they are left figuring out how to get everything else taught. The younger the class, the more married teh teachers are to TERC. My 1st grader's teacher LOVES TERC. :confused: She says because it really works.

[Momling]

My 4th grader has done NO foundational concepts this semester...I've seen some subtraction. That's all. Then suddenly there are worksheets with big multiplication problems on them. :001_huh: Her teacher told me that TERC only teaches about 1 in 5 of the concepts in our state stanards, and they are left figuring out how to get everything else taught. The younger the class, the more married teh teachers are to TERC. My 1st grader's teacher LOVES TERC. :confused: She says because it really works.

Exactly!

And really, at first grade, it (more or less) does work. Aside from the slow progress and the annoying questions of 'how do you know that 5+4= 9', it isn't a bad program for kindergarten and first grade. Manipulatives and a heavy focus on conceptual understanding of math *should* be the focus at first grade. But I honestly believe that once it's understood, there is no need to continue forcing children to use manipulatives or number charts or number lines or drawing %&@*&#! dots to solve a problem. My daughter was told not to use any algorithms in third grade. No borrowing, no carrying, -- not allowed. When she solved the problem like that, she was required to re-do the work and show her work in a different way. I can't tell you how annoying it is to watch your child draw dots or create a 100 chart in order to solve a single problem.:banghead:

[Nart]

I had to teach "Mathland" years ago and found it was both exciting and disturbing at the same time. Like TERC (which is used here too) I can understand what they are *trying* to do. They're trying to focus on number sense and make sure that kids understand math conceptually. What they completely miss out on is the procedure. So the students end up being completely inefficient in figuring out any math problem because they've never been any algorithm -- borrowing, carrying, multiplying, long division. It's all supposed to be done on 100 charts or number lines or by drawing pictures.
:banghead:

Your mention of Mathland just gave me shivers. I too had to teach Mathland and that is why I am so worried that my school district uses Everyday Math. I tried to follow the program, but after the first month my classroom walls looked great from all the math lessons involving cutting and gluing strips of construction paper but my third graders had learned nothing. I spent an entire Saturday at the school photocopying lessons out of an old third grade math textbook (they confiscated the old math books but a nice teacher gave me one copy). I taught the kids from the old book and made sure they memorized the times tables by giving them math facts to do for homework. Once a month I did a Mathland lesson so I could put it up on the walls to show the principal that we were following the program. One parent who had twins (one twin was in my classroom and one was in another classroom) came to me and begged me to give her two sets of homework so her other child wouldn't fall behind. In August of the next school year the test scores came back and of course my third graders scored the highest in the school. The principal made a point of mentioning at a staff meeting how one third grade class made huge gains in math all due to Mathland and what a success the program was. As a new teacher I was not going to risk contradicting the principal. I have hope that if Mathland disappeared perhaps Everyday Math will too one day soon,
Jen

[Momling]

Your mention of Mathland just gave me shivers. I too had to teach Mathland and that is why I am so worried that my school district uses Everyday Math. I tried to follow the program, but after the first month my classroom walls looked great from all the math lessons involving cutting and gluing strips of construction paper but my third graders had learned nothing. I spent an entire Saturday at the school photocopying lessons out of an old third grade math textbook (they confiscated the old math books but a nice teacher gave me one copy). I taught the kids from the old book and made sure they memorized the times tables by giving them math facts to do for homework. Once a month I did a Mathland lesson so I could put it up on the walls to show the principal that we were following the program. One parent who had twins (one twin was in my classroom and one was in another classroom) came to me and begged me to give her two sets of homework so her other child wouldn't fall behind. In August of the next school year the test scores came back and of course my third graders scored the highest in the school. The principal made a point of mentioning at a staff meeting how one third grade class made huge gains in math all due to Mathland and what a success the program was. As a new teacher I was not going to risk contradicting the principal. I have hope that if Mathland disappeared perhaps Everyday Math will too one day soon,
Jen

It will go away. The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way, leaving in its wake a generation of poorly prepared students.

Don't get me wrong, though... manipulatives can be powerful tools to understanding something, but I've found some kids will never make the connection you expect them to make. For some students, the cuisenaire rod may always be a pretty stick, that awesome activity with the 100 chart will just become an unmemorable and not very appealing game, drawing 7 spiders with eight legs to show that 7x8 is 56 becomes a task related to spider art, not math... Some students don't make the leap between the math problem and the activities that we give them to make it more appealing or visual or fun or kinesthetic or whatever.

There's a place for manipulatives, but done unnecessarily or poorly or without awareness, they can be so very, very pointless. And to me, Investigations and Mathland and Everyday Math run frequently into the world of pointlessness.

[Karin]

It will go away. The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way, leaving in its wake a generation of poorly prepared students.

Some students don't make the leap between the math problem and the activities that we give them to make it more appealing or visual or fun or kinesthetic or whatever.

There's a place for manipulatives, but done unnecessarily or poorly or without awareness, they can be so very, very pointless. And to me, Investigations and Mathland and Everyday Math run frequently into the world of pointlessness.
:iagree: And the one thing guaranteed about math is that it will change sooner or later because that's how American education (and education in a number of other countries) works.

[BabyBre]

It will go away. The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way, leaving in its wake a generation of poorly prepared students.




:iagree: And, unfortunately, those are my kids and their sweet friends and their poor, unsuspecting parents are so in the dark.

I'm going give that pendulum a shove. :cursing:

[mandymom]

Investigations is one of the primary reasons we are bringing our kids home next year. I don't know any parents that don't despise it. I know quite a few teachers who think it's awful as well.