WT2: Too easy for a struggling 11yo writer?

[Sue G in PA]

I have WT2 for my ds9 for next year. As I prev. posted, my dd11 (going into 7th but a young 7th grader at that) struggles with putting her original thoughts on paper. Narrations are not a big deal...she can easily write a paragraph or more about something she's read. I was wondering if WT2 (just the writing part...not the grammar or vocab or spelling) would be a good program to use for a while to help her over this "hump"? Any thoughts? I certainly don't want to bore her, but I also don't want to frustrate her. Her LL7 writing assignments have been really frustrating her. I keep telling her they are stretching her brain and that's why it is so uncomfortable right now...it will get easier. Okay, anyway, WT2? Any thoughts? TIA

[TracyR]

No . I don't think it would bore her at all . My 10 yr old is doing WT1 right now and it doesn't bore her at all . I think it would be just fine for her .
Even if it is a little easier it may give her some more self confidence . I know with my 10yr old dd the more I push her out of her comfort zone the more she resists and has more problems with it . But if I back down just a little she seems to master things when she is ready . 11 yrs old is a very young 7th grader . My 10yr old will be a 5th grader this year and that would be what she would be if she were in brick and mortar school . So honestly she may fare well with 7th grade work but she is still an 11 year old .

Don't get me wrong I'm all for challenging things . But there has to be at least one easy and enjoyable subject for them to look forward to otherwise learning is more of a drudgery instead of what is what it is meant to be enjoyable .

[Shasta Mom]

I talked with Amy who wrote the program, and she cautioned me that in both WT1 and WT2 that the difficulty level jumps midway through the program. She was also cautious about kids graduating from WT only to enter back into CW too young.....I'm starting WT1 with my 9 yo ds 4th grader in the fall. She told me it may seem too easy at the beginning- but that won't last! Other board members have commented how WT2 gets quite difficult part way through.................We'll see!

[Sue G in PA]

I talked with Amy who wrote the program, and she cautioned me that in both WT1 and WT2 that the difficulty level jumps midway through the program. She was also cautious about kids graduating from WT only to enter back into CW too young.....I'm starting WT1 with my 9 yo ds 4th grader in the fall. She told me it may seem too easy at the beginning- but that won't last! Other board members have commented how WT2 gets quite difficult part way through.................We'll see!

Hmmmm...do you think WT2 would be too difficult for my ds10 (5th gr.) next year? He has not done WT1. I'm also planning to do WT1 for my ds8 next year (he'll be 9 in Oct.). I do think he'll be ready as he is an "older" 3rd grader. Okay, so I'm thinking I'll just start dd11 on WT2 now instead of IEW's Anc. Hist. (which is boring her now). Thanks for your input everybody! I agree that a child must have a subject that is "fun" and easy to look forward to. For dd11 it has been math...I'd love it to be writing, too!

[Shasta Mom]

Sue - I emailed Amy directly and got two long thoughtful responses. You may try contacting her.

[OhElizabeth]

Sue, a 5th grader going into WT2 with no previous experience is going to be fine. And I agree with your assessment that it could be a good fit for your 7th grader. The one thing I suggest you do is go to page 277 in the student text (383 in your tm, unless the pages have changed or edition or something) and look at the list of sentence beginnings. These are also covered in the appendix (286 student, 392 tm). IF your 7th grader is flying through the models, easily getting her thoughts down on paper, not struggling with lots of spelling or other errors, and is ready to kick it up a notch, use that list starting from the beginning of the book. As you edit her rough draft she can take 1,2, or 3 sentences (start with 1 and work up) and put them through the 10 sentence variations. You could also kick it up with a 7th grader by adding in non-fiction writing to their weekly assignment list. Take an EXTREMELY SIMPLE non-fiction paragraph or article for dc to retell, have her outline and retell using the WT2 techniques, then do the same thing, looking at sentence beginnings. See the content of WT2, by the end of the book, is very advanced and has lots of applicability for an older student. If your dd finds the early lessons easy, you just bring forward those skills sooner, make sense?

I wouldn't skip the grammar entirely, because the grammar lessons work toward a foundation of understanding that allows her to work through the sentence openers exercise comfortably. If they can't quickly identify and think up adverbs, verbs, conjunctions, etc. they're going to find it difficult to do the exercise. That said, you don't have to HARP on the grammar or spend tons of time with it. The way I've taught my little co-op class, we do the co-op lessons and get much of the homework done together in class in our one hour session. You could do the assignments orally together and just have her mark things. You can skip memorizing the prepositions, etc. (personal opinion, not something I like). If she's done a ton of grammar and it's pat for her, skip entirely I guess. A little review is good though, because you're going to be applying it in the 2nd half of the book.

I'm REALLY impressed with WT2 and the extent of material we've covered this year!! I can finally see where it was going and how these skills can apply to non-fiction writing. So that's my suggestion, that if it's easy for your dd, you go ahead and study the 2nd half of the book and read through where it's going. Take those sentence beginnings and bring them up, having her apply them earlier. You can't do that with a student who is still struggling to get her thoughts on paper or deal with mechanics (spelling, run-ons, etc.), but once those issues are smoothed out, you can kick it up a notch quite easily bringing forward the content covered later in the book. It's KILLING me that I don't have time to do that more with our kids (more models, more weeks), because they're just now making progress to where they're able to do this in a fledgling way. An older student would get there much more quickly, and in fact I'd probably mention it much sooner. Like I said, just take ONE sentence the 7th grader picks out from her rough draft and have her run it through the exercise. It can turn out some really great stuff that way! The other thing you could do, and I think I'd feel more freedom to do (in retrospect) is to quantify the amount of something I expect. If the lesson covers adverbs, don't be afraid to TELL your fledgling a minimum number you expect.

Well that's enough ideas. Have fun. The concepts in WT2 very closely parallel the dress-ups covered in SWI B of IEW, from what I can tell looking at things, so you definitely have enough meat there to kick it up for a 7th grader if you bring those skills forward sooner, apply it to extra non-fiction assignments, etc.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks for your advice. I did email Amy and she said WT2 would be "okay" for my 11yo but that I should start looking into another program soon to prepare her more for high school essay writing. As we school all year, I think I'll just use WT2 from now until end of summer and then switch to a more advanced program like Jump In! or something similar. Although...I haven't a CLUE what other programs are out there that teach higher level writing. Oh how I wish SWB had written a high school program FIRST!

[TracyR]

Have you looked at the Classical Writing books ? I believe they go up through high school .

[Sue G in PA]

Have you looked at the Classical Writing books ? I believe they go up through high school .

That's funny you ask b/c after received my email from Amy I did look up CW based on her recommendation on where to go after WT2! I posted a new thread asking for info on CW in general as well as thoughts on CW Homer, Diogenes, etc. Amy had suggested that Diogenes was more for high school even though the website suggests 7th/8th. Anyway...yes, I am looking into CW. My problem? Finances! I already have WT2 so I'm trying to make do with what I have right now!

[OhElizabeth]

Sue, with what you'll have done in WT2, she could go into IEW's SWI B quite nicely. WT2 calls them sentence beginnings, IEW calls them dress-ups, same stuff. That's what I was trying to explain to you, that the skills you do in WT2 can carry over directly to non-fiction writing once you see how. Unfortunately, you have to be to the END of the book before you see that, lol. (That's why I suggested you look at the end first!)

PS. If money is flush, you could go ahead and get IEW SWI B for your 7th grader. She could probably comfortably do both sets of assignments each week.