TOG users of grammar students- I have questions about scheduling and writing

[Verena]

I've posted this yesterday on the TOG board, but haven't received any answers, so I thought I'd try here:



We're planning on using TOG 2 next schoolyear with 1 UG, 1 LG and 1 in Kinder (just got my copy - yeah!) and I have a few questions:

1. how much time should I allot per week to cover at least the history, literature and geography threads? I'm thinking that we'll read/write only, maybe do a project every few weeks.

2. how much writing do your kids in the grammar stage realistically get done? Are they working on a history notebook? Do you assign writing every week/every other week? Do you skip it altogether? How much are you already utilizing the WA?

3. What science are you using? (just curious...). We just started with Apologia's Astronomy course and I have my kids do a notebook. Yesterday we spent a long time on our notebook page, and if we spent equal time also on a history notebook, it might just get overwhelming. So-- what does science/history writing look like in your home?

Please share what you've found works/doesn't work.
Thanks!

[schang011]

and we just started Unit 4. We really enjoyed the slower pace as it allows us to read more library books (especially in U3 Colonial America, there are so many good books!) and not feel stressed. I have 10 yo and 8 yo, BTW.

Since we don't use WA yet (maybe we will start next year) it doesn't take us that much time to go through history, geography and literature. Maybe 1.5 - 2hrs the most. That does not count the time they read independently. I do a lot of read aloud, like church history, history books and maybe one of the literature book because we really enjoy it. I assign them a book or 2 for independent reading and we always check out lots of library books that they can choose from.

We have been really relaxed about writing. Besides narration, they write their own stories about getting a pet, their dreams, weather and things like that. My 10yo is taking a writing class at co-op though.

We read Apologia together. We are in Zoology I right now. I have tried the notebook but it became too time intensive so we mainly read together and discuss. And if there is anything in particular that really interests them, we do a few notebooking pages.

We are very laid-back with TOG. I hope this helps you a bit.

Shirley

[KerriF]

Verena,
1. I am currently doing TOG 2 with 1 LG and preK. We do TOG each day 4 days a week. It takes about 20 min for history and literature. For history I read the book outloud and ds does a narration. For literature I read it outloud and he does the literature worksheet from TOG. The days that we do the arts/activities it takes longer. I try to schedule that for a day that we don't do science. I try to have science line up on the days we aren't doing hands on projects for TOG. I pick and choose the geography that we do this year (although next year my plan is to do it each week) and I just work it in on a lighter day.

This is roughly what our TOG week looks like (our school week starts on Tuesday becauese we have co-op on Mon)

Tuesday: Hands on Activities - I decided to start my weeks with this while they are in the Grammar stage because I know the boys really like the activities and I wanted the younger years to as hands on as possible. I read the teacher notes before hand and then try to do some teaching while they are working on their activities.

Wed: History reading and narration (maybe geography if we are going to cover it)

Thursday: Literature

Friday: TOG lapbook, finish up projects and any reading we haven't finished.

2. Currently we aren't doing the WA from TOG. However dh and I just sat down last night and talked about how its time to incorporate this in (we have been using FLL). The writing that we currently do (only for TOG) is for the TOG lapbook and the literature worksheet each week. I'm going to have to tweak my schedule to add the writing portion in.

3. We do science twice a week on either Wed, Thrus, or Fri depending on the week. We also do a science club every other week with another family. However right now science is the first to go if we can't get to everything in a day. As far as a history notebook - do you mean a timeline? We haven't started that yet. We keep all of our work in a notebook for history but there isn't a notebook we work on.

I hope that helps.

I would like to hear more about the history notebook and what that includes :)

[Trivium Academy]

I've posted this yesterday on the TOG board, but haven't received any answers, so I thought I'd try here:

We're planning on using TOG 2 next schoolyear with 1 UG, 1 LG and 1 in Kinder (just got my copy - yeah!) and I have a few questions:

1. how much time should I allot per week to cover at least the history, literature and geography threads? I'm thinking that we'll read/write only, maybe do a project every few weeks.

As much as you want. We work 4 days a week on history for 30 min. at a time, I split the objectives up into mini-units. Esp. because we're using SOTW, which means 1 SOTW chapter a day if it works out that way. Mapwork and either oral narration/notebook page are done every day.



2. how much writing do your kids in the grammar stage realistically get done? Are they working on a history notebook? Do you assign writing every week/every other week? Do you skip it altogether? How much are you already utilizing the WA? Copywork is 1x a week b/c we have so much writing in other subjects. I don't use WA yet, but we're in LG/2nd grade right now.


3. What science are you using? (just curious...). We just started with Apologia's Astronomy course and I have my kids do a notebook. Yesterday we spent a long time on our notebook page, and if we spent equal time also on a history notebook, it might just get overwhelming. So-- what does science/history writing look like in your home?

Please share what you've found works/doesn't work.
Thanks!This year it's our own science plans. Next year we'll be using LIving Learning Chemistry. Our science lessons are 30 minutes maybe 2 days a week, we don't really notebook in science yet. It's all about discovery right now. We do a lot of science oriented learning informally.

Hth

[Janice in NJ]

Verena,

I'm not hsing with TOG with LG anymore. My youngest dips between UG and D, but I can offer some BTDT advice if that's cool.

Marsha speaks a lot about TOG being the "ice cream" in the academic diet of the little ones. It took me a while to figure out what that meant/means. I'm still learning here. But the biggest piece of advice that I can offer from my experience is to explore and enjoy history and science topics with your little ones. I know... I know... "explore" can seem so nebulous. I used to always ask myself: WHAT does that mean?

Hmmm.... Look for month-to-month progress in the three R's: reading (or reading readiness), arithmetic, and writing. These are skill subjects. A strong, slow-but-steady foundation in these areas will enable your children to learn SO SO much history and science when they hit the ground running during those logic-stage years. I was amazed! :) And any areas of weakness in this area were difficult to shore up while my kids were in the middle grade years. PLEASE hear me on this though: I've had to do it. And in some areas we aren't done yet. So no guilt on that front either, OK? I'm just saying that slow but steady progress in the three R's yields an easier road in the middle grade years. ANY lack of elementary knowledge of history or science hasn't been tough to fill in. NO problem. So don't worry about covering tons and tons of history and science content. It's the process of learning and exploring together that really trumps here. It's a terrific habit to build into your kids. But for us, it was the love of the process NOT the knowledge that they brought from grades 1-4 that made the difference.

My advice? Use your history or science curriculum to work on those reading and writing and discussing and wondering-about-the-world skills with your kids. They both work so well as grist for the "skills" side of the educational mill (reading/thinking/discussing/writing). But DON'T stress about gaps in either subject area with really little ones. ANY REAL gaps in content "knowledge" that they might have when they hit those middle grade years are SO SO easy to fill with a child that has obtained the habits of cheerful and interested effort in the areas of reading, writing, and arithmetic.

So work on either a history "project" or a science "project" but don't do both if you feel frantic or disjointed about it. That feeling of bouncing around may actually be counter-productive to the goal of obtaining contemplative thinkers. :D Think of your time in terms of chunks - and teach your kids the process of concentration ... and then switch gears. (And leave room here for YOUR tolerance levels for these opposites as well as theirs!) Some folks like the WTM method of alternating days (History on M, W, F or Science on T, R). Some like doing both subjects for shorter periods of time each day. Some folks alternate weeks or months. Some folks do one in the fall or one in the spring. Some folks don't bother with science. Some folks (like me) :) swear that they are going to FOCUS on science (because we weren't really doing it) but just can't seem to stop doing history..... (another story there, eh?)...I digress....

My point?
Use TOG to teach your kids. Don't try to "cover" the curriculum. Yikes! Especially don't try to COVER TOG. You'll go crazy. Pick and Choose! And realize that you are going to have to skip along on the surface of a VERY deep TOG pond with little people. That's SO TOTALLY OK!!!!!! You have so much time on your side. And anytime you feel like you're not "doing" enough with your kids consider those D & R columns of TOG for yourself. Plunge in on your own. Read. Think. Write. and Learn for yourself. I've become quite a story-teller around here. Our conversations are peppered with the stories that I've read on my own. It makes for a rich environment that isn't overwhelming for little people. :)

Have fun!

Peace,
Janice

Enjoy your little people
Enjoy your journey

[siloam]

1. We spend 30 mins a day on history 4 days a week, but that is with a history read-aloud not related to TOG.

2. I don't start formal writing till 3rd grade. The first half of the year they learn to type and do daily narrations (me writing it). Second half of the year they do CW Aesop A and continue narrations. First half of 4th grade they take over the narrations and we paused CW. Second half is doing written narrations and doing CW Aesop B. My oldest also started doing daily lapbooking in 3rd, which is similar to narrations. Given she loves to write she is also doing some TOG WA. To clarify: As long as "writing" meas typing she loves writing. ;)

3. We spend 30 mins a day on Science as well. The WP AW is for everyone, but we are almost done and will start Apologia Zoo 1. We also do a science RA, so that time includes a chapter in an animal book. I keep the reading and activities in this part pretty small. My oldest is also doing the God's Design books. I read them to her (usually takes all of 5 mins) and she does the activities fairly independently.

In TOG it didn't work for us to do block scheduling. My kids like to do a little at a time, so we map 5 places a week (yep that means I have to choose sometimes), 5 timeline figures for my oldest (again I have to choose, can't do them all), ect... Obviously at some point we will either have to go to block scheduling or they will have to do more than one a day, but that will come in time. For now this is enough.

Heather

[Verena]

However right now science is the first to go if we can't get to everything in a day. As far as a history notebook - do you mean a timeline? We haven't started that yet. We keep all of our work in a notebook for history but there isn't a notebook we work on.

I would like to hear more about the history notebook and what that includes :)[/QUOTE]

Hi Kerri,
thanks for your reply :). It's so good to hear what others are doing and how they're doing it- especially with the younger crowd.
No, I didn't mean a timeline. For our science notebook, we just downloaded the one off the Jeanie Fulbright site and write/draw something when the book tells us to (Astronomy course by Apologia). We've just started, so we don't have much to show for (yet). Yesterday, f.ex., we put up our *balloon solar system*, took a picture and wrote something about the planets. When I get the photos developed, we'll glue them under the text.
Once we're through the whole course, we'll take the notebooks to get them bound. I think it'll be something my boys will be very proud off- and also to show something to grandparents.

I was hoping to maybe do a similar notebook with TOG as well. We're doing SOTW right now and only do the coloring/map pages. Which is fine. Next year, though, my older one will be in 4th grade, so I'd like to increase the writing volume a bit.

[Verena]

Whoops- I guess that quote thingy didn't work. Well, the first 3 lines are yours, Kerri.

[Verena]

Thanks for your reply, Jessica. Yes, I've nosed through your blog and downloaded your wonderful earth science plans (big thank you for making them available). We will most likely do that right after our astronomy course.

[Verena]

Yes, it helps a lot, thank you. I, too, thought about stretching each TOG week over 2, but haven't made up my mind.

[Verena]

Thanks for the timely advice! Much appreciated. When I got TOG the other day I felt overwhelmed just looking at the still-shrink-wrapped units... and there were only 3 :D (4th unit will be shipped in a few months, I guess).

I will put my eggs in the 3 R's basket also next year, promise! (my oldest is only going to be in 4th grade).
But I sure would like to do a history notebook- for show and tell, something to be proud of.
We'll see what other writing we'll end up doing- haven't decided on that yet.

[Verena]

:)

No wonder you're so productive :D.
My oldest, currently in 3rd , is just now getting to where he is fairly comfortable with putting anything on paper. He even asked for a journal for his birthday (he just turned 9) and I see him USING it almost every day (hear the angels sing? :D). Volume is still not where I'd like to be, but I'm learning to be okay with it :-).

I'm always so surprised to find out HOW LONG something takes (be it learning to write, read, drawing a picture, making a craft, etc.)- that has been THE biggest challenge for me in our journey so far.

We're doing history 2x/week right now- but maybe splitting 2 larger chunks into 4 smaller chunks will be more beneficial.

Lots to ponder- I guess we'll see how it goes, right?

(btw, you look exactly how I pictured you :D. And yes, that's a compliment :-).

[siloam]

:)

No wonder you're so productive
My oldest, currently in 3rd , is just now getting to where he is fairly comfortable with putting anything on paper. He even asked for a journal for his birthday (he just turned 9) and I see him USING it almost every day (hear the angels sing?). Volume is still not where I'd like to be, but I'm learning to be okay with it :-).

I'm always so surprised to find out HOW LONG something takes (be it learning to write, read, drawing a picture, making a craft, etc.)- that has been THE biggest challenge for me in our journey so far.

We're doing history 2x/week right now- but maybe splitting 2 larger chunks into 4 smaller chunks will be more beneficial.

Lots to ponder- I guess we'll see how it goes, right?

(btw, you look exactly how I pictured you :D. And yes, that's a compliment :-).

Awwww, thanks!

You know all my kids love to tell stories (boy included), and all of them are pencil phobic. (Glad to hear you ds is finally writing!!)

The only way I get so much writing out of my oldest is that most of it is done via typing. I even bought Hands of A Child Lapbooks with the Type It feature so she doesn't have to write. :rolleyes: She types both her CW and TOG writing assignments.

I have her physically write her narrations, and all I get is stuff like: Jesus told parables. In one a wicked man put weeds in the field.

This was the grand effort she produced on Friday. Given it was Friday I let it slide and didn't make her do more. When she types she gives me twice the quality (and quantity), so at this point I consider her narrations handwriting and summarization practice, not writing per say.

The other reason why I wait till 3rd grade to do narration and lapbooks is because they can then do it more independently. I print out all her narration sheets, lapbooking pages, and a schedule over the weekend. Come Monday she works down the list doing her narration, timeline figure, mapping assignment and lapbook on her own while I work one on one with the other kids. If she wasn't independent I wouldn't be doing so much.

This probably means that when we start Zoo 1 I will be only having my oldest do the notebook pages, except when it asks for drawings, because my 2nd dd is really good at drawing. I just have too much going on with phonic/math/LA to worry about squeezing it in. Ideally it would be nice, but it is also a recipe for me burning out.

Heather