Can Anyone Top This

[Concerned Mom]

I complained to the principal at my son's public school that there is too little homework and many times what is learned in school is not reinforced through homework.

My son who is a 3rd grader only received 2 Reading homework assignments per week and 2 math worksheets per week. He did really poorly on a Social Studies test. No study guide was sent home for me to help him study. The Social Studies book did not cover what was being taught, so he did poorly. When I asked the teacher if she could provide me with a resource to help him study for his tests, she told me there should be notes in his notebook that he could study. On another occasion she told the class that they didn't have to do notetaking. They could if they wanted to. After going back and forth with the teacher about there was barely anything intelligible in the notebook to use as a resource to help my son study and his comment about the teacher not allowing the students to take notes sometimes, I called for a meeting with the principal. I felt that I was getting the run around from his Reading teacher. This was a kid in a previous private school with a rigorous program who was getting As and Bs, but now doing poorly in Reading and Social Studies. My son is above average in Reading on the Iowa Basic Skills test. He is also an A B student in Science and Math.

It was obvious the problem was the Reading/Social Studies teacher. The principal asked me what I wanted as this is a new school (3 years old) and she wanted me as a former private school parents to have a good impression of her school. She also thought a child his age was not ready to be able to take notes and listen at the same time. I list some things that I wanted from her. As a result a teacher's blog was created where the Reading/Social Studies teacher put a study guide up there for some subjects not all. As a result of my complaint and the principal talk with the teacher an effort was made to help me, so I could help my son. My son made the honor roll this semester, but I feel the teacher is regressing. She told me there would be a test on adverbs this Friday. No homework was sent home to reinforce what was learned in class. She did not discuss adverbs until Thursday and the test is on Friday. I did practice exercises with my son 3 days before the test. I couldn't believe that she wrote two sentences about what adverbs were with a list of words then stated this is the test. Are you kidding me! My son said he didn't know what she was talking about, but understood from practicing recognizing an adverb, recognizing if the adverb is telling how, when or where he understood.

Is this real teaching? My son had anxiety about the test, but I assured him he will do fine if he applies what he learned in the test. My son described the teacher of not being happy and she always has a bored face. I really feel people need to get out of this profession if they don't have a vested interest in helping/educating children. I don't want my child to pay the price for this. Anyway, I will play this one by ear to see how he does before I complain again.

I have decided we will finish this year out and not return to this school next year.

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one going through this. My in-laws seem to believe that the reason why students do not do well is because the parents are not involved or it is a common problem in the inner city. I don't live in the inner city and I am the most involved parent in my son's education. We have ineffective teachers in the suburbs too. I really feel as though if you are not in a wealthy neighborhood, you don't get the best teachers and resources are limited.

[Ravin]

I don't think a lot of homework in 3rd grade is necessarily called for, especially for classes like social studies. For reading and math, perhaps. If a child is struggling with something, though, there should certainly be something available to guide parents to help. With most schools having teacher webpages these days, it should be pretty straightforward to put supplemental info or study guides out there, even if they don't get sent home on paper all the time. 3rd grade is too young to expect children to take notes and rely on them for studying.

It does sound like you got a lousy teacher this year. I would have little patience or tolerance for such, either.

[Heigh Ho]

Not to be contrary, but homework isn't usually done in third grade - the classwork is usually sufficient; most teachers will ask the child to free read if he wants to do homework. Some may assign hw as part of training in using a planner and establishing a habit, but with the vast number of students not doing hw, it is not counted on as meaningful hw in this area.

It's hard to say if the adverb example is real teaching or not - depends on what was done in class and as independent practice. If she just presented a rule and a list to memorize - no, that isn't teaching. If she presented a definition, did guided practice and assigned independent practice..yes, that's teaching. If it was sufficient for the majority of the class, she's fine and she'll be refering those who need more to rTi.

No, you're not the only one. The discussion is national now because there are so many teachers that present rather than teach, resulting in so many children left behind. Wealthy neighborhoods aren't immune..that's why wealthy children go to private school instead of remaining in public school. An 'involved' parent in an average school is a parent that afterschools or uses Kumon or the like.

[2cents]

I have to agree with the others. 3rd grade is ify in terms of notetaking and homework. I do think that at that time they need consistent reinforcement of the concepts being taught but that doesn't necessarily mean homework is the best tool for that. What I truly believe is that whether a child is in public or private, the parents need to be actively involved and not assume that the school will be able to focus one on one with each child. There are just too many. It is the nature of the setting.

Unfortunately, in the institutional learning setting it is very difficult to focus on each child as a individual and giving homework puts some of that responsibility on the parent. But it is also true that there is a growing population of parents who resent the homework burden after what they see as a long day of school and they may suspect the teacher is foisting off his/her responsibility to the parent. So now you see schools trying to minimize the homework. A couple years ago there was a lot of hot debate about the homework issue. I think public schools walk a fine line these days.

[Concerned Mom]

I have to agree with the others. 3rd grade is ify in terms of notetaking and homework. I do think that at that time they need consistent reinforcement of the concepts being taught but that doesn't necessarily mean homework is the best tool for that. What I truly believe is that whether a child is in public or private, the parents need to be actively involved and not assume that the school will be able to focus one on one with each child. There are just too many. It is the nature of the setting.

Unfortunately, in the institutional learning setting it is very difficult to focus on each child as a individual and giving homework puts some of that responsibility on the parent. But it is also true that there is a growing population of parents who resent the homework burden after what they see as a long day of school and they may suspect the teacher is foisting off his/her responsibility to the parent. So now you see schools trying to minimize the homework. A couple years ago there was a lot of hot debate about the homework issue. I think public schools walk a fine line these days.

I believe homework is valuable because it reinforces what is learned at school. It is not reasonable to expect that the teacher should be solely responsible for teaching and reinforcement only at school. This is why private school children are outperforming children in public schools where you have a system in place that doesn't work. My son does have a lousy reading teacher though. She did not want to help me at all. I was shocked when I couldn't get a resource or study guide out of her when my son was bringing home Cs in reading. He has NEVER made a C in Reading in his academic years when he was in private. I knew what the problem was and it seems as though she didn't want to help me until I made a complaint to the principal. Now the information is coming, but she waits until a day or two to provide a study sheet on her teacher web page (she developed a webpage after the complaint). It is not even a study sheet, but a copy of her notes on the board. Usually when you announce a test, a test is being given because the teacher worked on the concept a week before. It doesn't work that way with her. She works on a concept the day or two before the test then test the students to see if they memorized what she told them. This is not teaching, this is bs.

I thought it was a big mistake for the school to place an intern in my son's reading teacher's class. You have one lousy teacher training an intern. This is pretty bad. I happened onto facebook to discovered my son's reading teacher was on it. She said and I quote, If this teaching thing doesn't work out, I want to become a massage therapist or storm chaser". Honey go for and do us all a favor.

[regentrude]

Sorry - but I do not think there should be homework if the kids are already in school from 8 till 3. They should be able to teach them all they need during all those hours. I don't think an 8 y/o can do quality schoolwork for more than 6 hours a day - so if they don't use the school time wisely, THAT's the problem. (Now in my home country, 3rd graders would get out of school at 12 noon, so homework makes sense)
I also don't believe in "studying" for elementary school tests. Memorizing study guides is just feeding the short term memory. The material should be taught so that being present in class suffices.
They should, however, learn to take notes - the teacher should be writing those on the board for the students to copy. THAT would be my complaint. Not missing study guides.

[Julie Smith]

Sorry - but I do not think there should be homework if the kids are already in school from 8 till 3. They should be able to teach them all they need during all those hours. I don't think an 8 y/o can do quality schoolwork for more than 6 hours a day - so if they don't use the school time wisely, THAT's the problem. (Now in my home country, 3rd graders would get out of school at 12 noon, so homework makes sense)
I also don't believe in "studying" for elementary school tests. Memorizing study guides is just feeding the short term memory. The material should be taught so that being present in class suffices.
They should, however, learn to take notes - the teacher should be writing those on the board for the students to copy. THAT would be my complaint. Not missing study guides.

What country do you live in. School ending at noon sounds so nice.

[regentrude]

What country do you live in. School ending at noon sounds so nice.

I now live in the US, but my home country is Germany. Elementary school there ends between 11 and 12:30, different times on different days.

[mcconnellboys]

Why on earth would third graders be taking notes of lectures? I've never heard of such a thing!

[regentrude]

Why on earth would third graders be taking notes of lectures? I've never heard of such a thing!

Not of lectures - but at least in the elementary schools I am familiar with, the teacher writes things on the board for the kids to copy down in their notebooks. Much better than a bunch of lose leaf copies.

[katemary63]

Not of lectures - but at least in the elementary schools I am familiar with, the teacher writes things on the board for the kids to copy down in their notebooks. Much better than a bunch of lose leaf copies.

:iagree: I think this is pretty standard. I also don't agree with homeword in elementary school. 8 hours is PLENTY of time to teach a 3rd grader. Mine only did about 3 hours of school daily. Homework after 8 hours is just cruel. What kind of life can a kid have?

[blakereese]

I also don't agree with homeword in elementary school. 8 hours is PLENTY of time to teach a 3rd grader. Mine only did about 3 hours of school daily. Homework after 8 hours is just cruel. What kind of life can a kid have?

:iagree: There really is no reason for homework in elementary school. My son went to ps last year and had homework every night, and sometimes it would take well over an hour. In first grade. :confused: Madness.

To the OP, I think maybe what you would like is communication. Maybe an update weekly on what they are working on in class, things you can reinforce at home, etc. I think that is important. I know the school my son went to had a website that the teachers would update, and it was helpful to see the spelling words for the week, what they were working on in math, upcoming important dates, etc. I think there should definitely be regular communication from the teacher to the parents, in whatever form they can manage.

OK, I just read the info about the web page and updating it late...I'm sorry that you are having these problems. But stay involved, you deserve to know the information.

[Heigh Ho]

Usually when you announce a test, a test is being given because the teacher worked on the concept a week before. It doesn't work that way with her.
.

The announcement of a test being a week ahead would be unusual here for elementary. Normally it is 2 days ahead, at the point when the class has finished learning the material and the teacher uses the day for review. The next day is then final review, maybe a jeopardy game & then the test.

She works on a concept the day or two before the test then test the students to see if they memorized what she told them. This is not teaching, this is bs.

What does 'works on a concept' look like in this classroom?

In third here, students do read independently, but they are expected to follow the discussion and remember the key points plus significant details. If that expectation is a serious problem, the child needs to be tested with an eye to establishing if there are working memory issues, auditory processing issues, attention issues etc. For some students it is as simple as teaching them how to learn from the seatwork...many will fill in a worksheet as quickly as possible without thinking about what they are doing which results in not learning.

You do have the right as a parent to visit the classroom and observe. This may help you determine why your child is not learning from the 'works on a concept'...for reading , he should have instruction, guided learning, and independent practice in the classroom.

If he is being tested on material that wasn't taught, do raise a stink. It happens, I know. What I've done is asked how that material was taught, and pulled out the reading wkbk and found the empty page...turns out the school was trying to teach to the state test and omitted some sections in the publisher's material, but the material was in the test bank and not crossed out when the test was given to the students. It didn't count against the student, but it made the little guys feel bad.

[NanceXToo]

Sorry - but I do not think there should be homework if the kids are already in school from 8 till 3. They should be able to teach them all they need during all those hours. I don't think an 8 y/o can do quality schoolwork for more than 6 hours a day - so if they don't use the school time wisely, THAT's the problem. (Now in my home country, 3rd graders would get out of school at 12 noon, so homework makes sense)
I also don't believe in "studying" for elementary school tests. Memorizing study guides is just feeding the short term memory. The material should be taught so that being present in class suffices.
They should, however, learn to take notes - the teacher should be writing those on the board for the students to copy. THAT would be my complaint. Not missing study guides.

:iagree: I think this is pretty standard. I also don't agree with homeword in elementary school. 8 hours is PLENTY of time to teach a 3rd grader. Mine only did about 3 hours of school daily. Homework after 8 hours is just cruel. What kind of life can a kid have?

:iagree: There really is no reason for homework in elementary school. My son went to ps last year and had homework every night, and sometimes it would take well over an hour. In first grade. :confused: Madness.

I agree with all of this. I didn't pull my daughter out of public school until toward the end of third grade, and one of the things I always hated while she was there was how much homework they gave her (starting in Kindergarten even!) and how long it took. She was gone from 8:30 in the morning until about 3:40ish in the afternoon. She sat at a desk for HOURS in school. There were silent lunches, recesses that only lasted 10-15 minutes, budget cuts in things like music, art and gym.

When she came home at the end of a long day, 1) I wanted her to have time to be a kid, to play, to have fun, to do her own thing, to explore her interests and so on. In 1st and 2nd grade though she had homework that would take at LEAST an hour and just didn't provide time for those things!

2) I resented the school infringing on what was OUR family time. My kid was already gone from her family all day. When she came home, I wanted it to be pleasant family time. Instead, there we were having to bring the school and its demands into our house, our family, our time. Way too much of our life revolved around that school schedule and things the school wanted. I hated it.

Kids spend plenty of time in school. It should absolutely be enough time to learn what they need to learn without having to do more of it at home. A kid shouldn't be expected to come home at the end of a long, tiring day and do MORE schoolwork. A parent shouldn't be expected to welcome their child home at the end of a long day and then have to turn right around and play enforcer for the school- whose sole concern is that the kid do well on standardized testing so THEY can look good. Families should be able to enjoy THEIR time.

I'm pretty anti-homework myself (and I would not have been happy to have some other parent from my child's school complaining that my kid's class needed MORE homework lol).

[Cadam]

I know we all need to vent sometimes but I have been reading your posts since your very first one and it seems like your only goal is to somehow prove that your son's school is the worst out there. The is so much anger and negativity in your posts. It kind of makes me worry for you. Chances a that you don't always feel so upset and just come here when you are, but it is concerning.

The are a lot of things you don't like about your son's school but if I may, you chose the school and you seem mostly upset at things that are basically intrinsic to being a school. I have found that trying to understand the pov of the teachers and staff has gotten me more of what I wanted then going in all Mama Bear on them. If you start out treating them as your enemies, you will find that,that is exactly what they have become.

As to this specific situation, I would be annoyed at the level of homework that your son has. It is a reasonable amount but the more homework dd has, the less time we have as a family and to work on the academics I want to work on with dd. If you want you son to do more work in the evening, give him more to do. Why should this be the school's job? It is their job to provide a basic education aimed at the majority of kids. If you want more than that, it is up to you.

May I also suggest that you relax a bit about your son's grades. It is elementary school, he is doing fine and you might want to save some worry about grades for Jr. High and high school. Elementary grades really don't matter. You Might be unintentionally passing some of that stress to your son and that would be really unfortunate. It's just the third grade so try not to worry so much about a history test. It would be very unusual for kids this age to be studying for a test, really.

[HappyCamper]

It is truly unfortunate the teacher is not excited to be teaching! With the teacher's website, it seems like that will enable you to tailor the afterschooling as needed. It doesn't seem to me that more homework is called for - parents can provide what is necessary for their specific child. When we were in public school there was so much busy work in the homework, it was very frustrating.
I agree with the poster who commented about not focusing on grades at this age - what is important is whether they master the material and develop positive attitudes about learning. I have to continually work at not focusing on grades myself.

[WordGirl]

I'm pretty anti-homework myself (and I would not have been happy to have some other parent from my child's school complaining that my kid's class needed MORE homework lol).

:iagree:--especially since homework mostly consists of worksheets, problems, and other bookwork, and written busywork is hardly the only (or even the best) way to learn or reinforce learning. They get plenty of that type of practice at school.

[lisamarie]

Bad teachers come in all schools. At the time that we pulled DS out of a very rigorous, middle-upper class charter school, I thought it was because I was just upset with school in general. This year we are sending DD to our local public school for K and I am actually pretty happy with it. When I visited DS's K class, it was utter chaos, the kids were wild and violent. I volunteered one morning a week and in two months, I never witnessed the teacher actually teach. :confused:

I volunteer in DD's class and it is quiet. The kids are learning. The teacher is always engaged, nice, happy, caring. The kids are not violent, they are very well-behaved. DD comes home with fun songs, poems, stories that she learned in school. She is teaching my 3 year old how to count by 2s, 5s, and 10s using the songs she learned at school.

I think that your experience with any school will pretty much boil down to the teacher's ability to teach. In retrospect, I think I would have been happy to keep DS in school with a classroom change. The other class was well-behaved and appeared to be getting an actual education. If you are dissatisfied with the teacher, ask for a switch to the other 3rd grade class.

I personally hate homework for my DD. And the only homework she gets is either a letter page where she has to cut out pictures from a magazine that start with that week's letter and glue them on or else she has a little project--make a collage of your family's Christmas traditions, make a valentines day box for the valentines party. I dislike it because they get the homework on Fridays and it's due on Monday. I would happily work with DD during the week to do her homework, but I am not okay with having to do it over the weekend. Many weeks I forget about it and she turns it in late. Oh well. It's not like they're going to fail her in K.:tongue_smilie:

[renmew]

I teach second grade at a private school in a middle class neighborhood. My parents would have a coronary if I didn't send homework. I also do not have a website for info, so I tell parents the best way for them to know exactly what we're doing in school is to look at the homework. The homework mirrors my lessons daily. My sharpest students take about 15-20 minutes to finish, and the slower ones take about 1 hour. I do tell my parents in the beginning of the year to never let homework take more than an hour, because that would mean something is wrong. Either I didn't do a good enough job teaching the concept, or the student is having additional issues we need to work on. My parents have not complained about the level of homework. They like the connection to the school day.

The closest things I do to a study guide for social studies or science is provided before we start the unit, so parents can reinforce while I'm teaching, not just at the end. I do teach them how to take notes. They write everything in a composition book, like vocabulary and grammar lessons/practice. Usually it would be after my introduction to the concept, then we take notes, then we practice further with the concept using a game or writing activity. I assess informally constantly, and finally give a test when I feel I've reached all I can. My score average on tests is MY grade.

[freerange]

Spam reported. :glare:

[MamaFish]

Well, I can't top that, but my girl DID come home with a bunch of packing peanuts glued on a big "2" when we had her in the DoD schools (of course we moved her to a private school the next day)...

But I'm like you. I will expect homework at 3rd grade. It does sound like you got a terrible teacher but a good principal - I'm impressed with how quickly and effectively the principal responded to your concerns.

Hope it gets better and your little guy doesn't lose his enthusiasm.