Lial's

[PollyOR]

I have searched the board for information about Lial's Algebra, and I'm having a hard time remembering who said what and in which thread. I apologize in advance for the repeat questions.

I have ordered Lial's Introductory Algebra (7th edition). What else would you suggest that I get (DVT's, solutions manual, etc.) to help us successfully finish the course?

Thank you,
Polly

[Karin]

We used the text with nothing else, but a Solutions manual could be helpful if you don't want to work the problems to see where your child made a mistake. I haven't tried the DVDs. My dd likes to learn her Algebra by reading the book.

[Jann in TX]

Start with just the text and add on as necessary. A solutions manual will run around $8 with shipping. DVTs are around $35.

ALL of the teaching is in the text--it has much more information than traditional texts because it was designed for independent learning.

You can also e-mail me if you ever need help!

Most of my Lial students only purchase the text for Algebra 1 (Introductory Algebra).

[PollyOR]

:) Thank you for replying. I have spent way too much time trying to decide what to do about algebra.

We were going to do R&S math 8, but after completing 3 chapters I don't think dd needs another year of mainly review. Math has become the daily grind. I believe dd is capable of starting Algebra even if we have to take it slowly.

If Lial's works for dd it will be one of the best investments I've made with curriculum lately. $15 is a bargain compared to some of the other Algebra programs I've looked at.

[CleoQc]

I'm hijacking this thread...
What *are* the Lial books and editions?
I've seen a 'pre-algebra', a 'beginning algebra', and a 'algebra 1'
I'm assuming they were different editions, but I didn't pay attention. I'm trying to make sense of all the Lial books and editions out there.

And there doesn't seem to be a website that would summarize all this!
Help?

[Karin]

Cleo (since I forgot to quote).

There is the publishers website, but I don't know of any that discusses all the books. They are college texts for remedial college math as I recall from an email exchange with an American college math instructor. Often you can get the older editions much cheaper than the newer ones. Are you thinking of this for your ds? The one we have is Introductory Algebra. Honestly, while dd liked it overall, I like the Dolciani even better, but that could be in part because the older Dolciani editions teach Algebra the way I learned it and Lial's approaches it differently.

[CleoQc]

The publisher's site (or at least what I could find (http://www.pearsonhighered.com/catalog/series/1,3123,MjI0MTg3Ng==-TGlhbCBEZXZlbG9wbWVudGFsIE1hdGhlbWF0aWNzIFNlcmllcw ==,00.html)) is pretty useless.
Some of the descriptions are the same for two or more books! That can't help me much.

I don't know what to do with my son yet for next year. I'm sorta planning to have him do Singapore 6, but I fear he will rebel. He *wants* to deal with algebra, with the letters. He strives on the little bit we did so far, absorbed it all within weeks (MUS pre-algebra) and is demanding more serious stuff. He's not looking forward to doing more bar graphs, especially knowing he can do it with letters. He just loves the abstraction.

But I also need something that uses metric system. I have NO clue if that's the case with Lial and Dolceani. (or anything else, for that matter! MUS does have a Canadian edition that solves that single problem, but it's not demanding enough for my son)

[Jann in TX]

The series 'we' refer to as Lial's is a math series designed for independent learning and used in community colleges for remedial math education. The main author's name is Margaret Lial.

Margaret Lial had two different math series through the same parent publisher. One used Beginning Algebra for Algebra 1 and the other used Introductory Algebra for Algebra 1. The Beginning Algebra series was produced mostly in hard-back texts--the Introductory Algebra series is mostly paper-back. The teaching is nearly identical--but the 'feel' of the lessons/layout differs. The paperback texts have a much better font size. They also offer practice problems in the side margins for the students to work as they read through the lesson. I prefer the paper-back series.

These are NOT college level texts. They contain the same material that is found in good high school texts (Fosters, Larson...).

Two different programs are offered for Pre-Algebra (just like Saxon offers 2 levels 8/7 and Algebra 1/2). Basic College Math is the text I prefer for Pre-Algebra. It contains the WHOLE concept while most other Pre-Algebra texts rely on the students having prior knowledge. Seeing the whole concept one more time before Algebra helps the students fill in any weak areas. A more standard Pre-Algebra text is also offered.

Lots of 'real-life' application problems are included in the text. In the Basic College Math (BCM) text some of these may contain references to situations (finance and such) that young students (below 8th grade) may not understand. I saw similar problems in my dd's public school text. The word problems are not spoon-fed to the students --they expect the students to THINK.

Another benefit (to us) from these being 'college texts' is that new editions come out about every 2 years. This helps pad the college textbook store's pockets! Used texts in 'NEW' condition are easily found (along with all the optional supplements). There are only MINOR differences between the 7th and 8th editions--mostly the pictures on the covers! The 8th can still be purchased from the publisher but the 7th can be found 'new' on sites such as Amazon.com for under $5 a copy. All that is really needed is the student text. For $50 or less you can have a complete Algebra program with video and solution manual support.

In the Fall of 2007 the publisher COMBINED the 2 series into one. It retained the higher edition numbers of the "Beginning Algebra series". So it is now the '10th edition'. They upgraded the videos and now they show the problems on the tests worked out by an instructor as well as other example problems. I'm not sure what the layout of the text is--if they still have practice problems in the margins... New sets will run about $150.

This is NOT a watered down math series. It is complete and is definitely college prep--it was designed for colleges!

Basic College Math/Pre Algebra = Pre-Algebra
Introductory Algebra or Beginning Algebra = Algebra 1
Intermediate Algebra = Algebra 2
College Algebra= 1 semester
Trig= 1 semester
Pre-Calc (a combination text that includes College Algebra and Trig)
Calculus

A Geometry program is available but it does not have the video support option. Geometry is NOT a pre-req for college math. It is required by most states for high school graduation. Most Lial users use a different program for Geometry (Chalkdust/Larson or Jacobs).

You may find other 'combination' texts such as Introductory AND Intermediate Algebra in one huge text. I really DO NOT recommend these. These are 'special' texts designed for use specifically in remedial-REVIEW classes---community college classes for people who had Algebra YEARS ago and need a refresher that moves quickly. The Pre-Calc text is the only 'true' combination text--it has College Algebra and Trig back-to-back.

[Karin]

These are NOT college level texts. They contain the same material that is found in good high school texts (Fosters, Larson...).



Correct, they are not college level, but they are used in college REMEDIAL math courses. Sorry if I wasn't clear before. Thanks for the great description, btw.

Cleo,

Lials does us some metric, but not exclusively. According to dd is usually uses American measures. As for the older Dolciani texts (1965, 1970, etc), they were written when Canada was still doing Imperial measures (5 cups to a quart, 4 Imperial quarts to a gallon, etc) which is different than the American system, although not in many areas. As I recall Canada began its switch in 1975--I still remember when they changed the mileage signs.

Have you looked at either of the Russian math books Myrtle has recommended? I haven't bought one yet, but they may use metric. They're not exactly Algebra, but are a change from Singapore. As for SM 6, that really covers the rest of pre-Algebra--perhaps he could race through it and then do NEM? My 10 yo wants to go into Algebra very badly, but she's going to do SM 6 and the Russian program (but not likely any more MUS as she's rebelling mostly with that now.) However, with her being so strongly vs I really want to spend more time on word problems and continuing to build her mathematical thinking to be able to better express things linguistically, not just with figures.

Are there any good Canadian, British, Australian or New Zealander math textbooks written by Ph.D.s in math? Or could you rewrite problems into metric from something like Lial's? Are you looking to do math in English or are there any good French or Belgium texts? Are there any French homeschool boards where you can find this kind of information?

Honestly, I like the language of the 1965 Dolciani better than that of Lial's, but that's partly my age speaking up. Dd has done best with Lial's and Dolciani.

[CleoQc]

Thank you Jann for the Lial explanation!
I wanted to give you rep points right away but I'm still out :-( Tonight, it shall be your turn ;-)

Now I feel I have an idea of what's what.
Oh, Karin, I'll answer you in email, so as not to take this thread too far from Lial...

[Karin]

Thank you Jann for the Lial explanation!
I wanted to give you rep points right away but I'm still out :-( Tonight, it shall be your turn ;-)

Now I feel I have an idea of what's what.
Oh, Karin, I'll answer you in email, so as not to take this thread too far from Lial...

Sounds good. I think I got a bit carried away with questions!

[CleoQc]

Sounds good. I think I got a bit carried away with questions!
Anyway, the answer to your question is mostly "I don't know" :lol:

[Michelle in MO]

this link from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Algebra-7th-Margaret-Lial/dp/0321064585/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209491356&sr=8-1

We've found Lial's relatively easy to use. To answer the original poster's question, we've used the DVT's (digital video tutors---like a DVD) and the student solutions manual, which gives all the answers to the odd problems in the text (usually the only problems you need to assign), plus ALL the review problems, plus the tests.

Sometimes the word problems are difficult. Overall, though, the program is pretty self-teaching. However, I still keep on top of the lessons, because I have two daughters who are not entirely self-teaching about math!

HTH!

[langfam]

If anyone is interested, I have Lial's Introductory Algebra, 7th edition for sale in very good condition. The set includes text, solutions manual, and DVTs. PM me if you're interested.

[CleoQc]

Didn't I just send you a private msg about this?

[Kimberly in Sedona]

this link from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Algebra-7th-Margaret-Lial/dp/0321064585/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209491356&sr=8-1

We've found Lial's relatively easy to use. To answer the original poster's question, we've used the DVT's (digital video tutors---like a DVD) and the student solutions manual, which gives all the answers to the odd problems in the text (usually the only problems you need to assign), plus ALL the review problems, plus the tests.

Sometimes the word problems are difficult. Overall, though, the program is pretty self-teaching. However, I still keep on top of the lessons, because I have two daughters who are not entirely self-teaching about math!

HTH!

Our oldest daughter's experience was much like Michelle's, we used most of the materials available. She REALLY struggled with Algebra until finding Lial's Introductory Algebra. Maybe it was the former materials, maybe it was her maturity, but until Lial's it did not click. We did find the DVTs helpful, although did not use them all the time. The solution's manual was VERY helpful, as well.

Later my middle daughter used Intermediate Algebra for Algebra II and did not need any extras, so clearly it depends on the individual. She was very self-teaching.

You can always just try the text and see if that works well and add the DVTs and/or solutions manual later. They tend to not be very expensive and easy to resell later...so you cannot really make a costly mistake either way.

[nuttman]

I purchased a 8th edition used along with the dvts. When I tried to watch the dvd, i got an error 2000 message. Does anyone have any idea what this is? It might have to do with the fact they have been used as all of the discs look to be in great shape. thanks

[Jann in TX]

I'm not that much help--I have not had my caffeen this morning...

This is a COMMON error with the DVTs. It is also and easy fix. It has to do with the DVTs using an old 'media player' (see my brain has left me this morning) and you have to switch back to an older edition for the video to work. Try searching the threads or you can call the publisher (Pearson) for tech support.

Hopefully someone will chime in on this--your best bet might be to start another thread on this specific error.