Someone "talk me down" (please)

[Amy in Orlando]

I'm so I-don't-know right now. Frustrated? Angry? What?

I have two really great neighbors. I truly do love them and know that they would do anything to help me or my family (and vice versa). We have a loose agreement on Friday nights - we usually let the kids (their oldest kids are the same age as my youngest son) play a little later than normal and we sit outside or inside depending on the weather and talk about what books we're reading, frustrations/triumphs of the week or whatever while the kids play. It's fun and it's something I look forward to all week.

Tonight, we were at my house because my 8 yo hurt his foot earlier this week and is limited to crawling or hopping until it heals (you don't want the gruesome details). So we sat and chatted and had our snacks. I got up (this part is hysterical to me) to get more bean dip. Of course, I was held up in the kitchen by a couple of kids who needed drinks and one who needed a band aid. When I came back to the porch, I walked in on a tirade by one of the neighbors about how she couldn't stand women who stay at home all day and if only they knew how hard she worked and blah, blah, blah.

And the two of them continued the conversation as if I wasn't there. It was surreal. They weren't being spiteful to me, they just kept talking. It was frustrating for me. I'm not seeking to "convert" anyone to being a sahm. I admire that they can both handle working full-time and kids and the house and everything else. I would be a monster. Dh knows this too. The benefits to me being home everyday far outweigh a serious second income at this point in our lives.

BUT ... it's not like I sit on the couch and eat bon-bons all day long (what exactly IS a bon-bon?). Dh and I have worked VERY hard to allow me to be home with our kids. We've given up many things that our friends take for granted. You all know the drill. I've even managed to start a small, semi-successful business. It's work. A lot of work. And, I just sat there with my extra bean-dip like a big fat lump listening. I felt like they've never heard anything I've said.

The thing is, I really don't feel like they were picking on "me." But, their whole conversation was so strange. And that I was sitting there listening and they didn't seem to notice made it even more strange. Everyone left about two hours ago and I'm still ramped up. Poor dh says that they don't consider me to be a sahm because they always see me working (on soap stuff in the evening).

I'm still left with such an uncomfortable feeling. I'm not going to apologize to anyone for being home with my kids. But, now I feel uncomfortable being around my neighbor friends. I've never judged them for their choices (their choices seem to be working ok for their families) BUT now I feel so judged and so defensive and disappointed.

Now what? Am I just overreacting to them blowing off steam? :confused:

[Andie]

Aww. (((Amy)))

I'd have felt the same way, probably. You're not overreacting; they should have realized what they were saying could be hurtful. However, I think it's really likely that they don't consider you "just" (yeah, yeah...) a SAHM. You're homeschooling four boys! They probably didn't think twice about what they were saying in front of you because they didn't feel they were talking about you.


If you find out later that they were, well...put some exlax in the bean dip. Or toys in their bras. *owch*


Someday I'm gonna eat me a bon-bon, just to try. (That'll be the day the neighbors drop in! LOL)

[Ellie]

Here's a link to Wikipedia and bonbons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonbon

I'm thinking you should find some nice bonbons and serve them next time y'all get together...

[sdWTMer]

How awful for you! I would be ramped up as well. :mad: But, I would also turn the other cheek and then see what happens the next time. If that conversation topic comes up again, then I would go from there. I know that this really isn't much of a solution. Sorry about that!

:)

Hang in there!

[sclisa]

While I was still reading your post, I was thinking exactly what Andie posted. I know that their comments were hurtful to you (and rightly so), but I really think that they don't consider you to be a SAHM. You're an educator *and* you have your own business. Shoot...you're probably the last person that they would think of when asked to name a stay-at-home mom. Even so, I'm sorry that they made you feel icky.

LOL about Andie's comment: exlax in the bean dip!:D

Lisa

[Chris in CA]

So sorry that happened to you (((hugs)))
Could it be that they don't consider you in the same group as other sahms because you hs? Just a thought and not at all an excuse

[Stirsmommy]

OOooh! I was just having a rant about this with a friend the other day. I have come to the conclusion that laying on the couch and eating bonbons is precisely what they think I do all day. Oh ask Melissa she has nothing else to do all day she is just home schooling her kids seems to be the motto. I mean it is bad enough they all think I am nuts to homeschool but since they work and their kids are in school it seems they think I do nothing. The other day I was trying to explain that no I can do whatever it was I was being asked to do by explaining what I needed to do here and the response was why don't you just send them to school then. Now that I think about it I think that is why I am missing our old home where there were tons of homeschool moms and I wasn't a weirdo. I wish I could say that I would have confronted your neighbors by saying hello I can hear you but considering all of the free babysitting and other stuff I have been doing I can't say a word! I do imagine your dh is right and they just never even thought of you as one of "those" women. But it would have burned me too.
((())))
Melissa

[Cadam]

I bet they don't put you in the same category because you homeschool. I am sure the right thing to do is to tell them how strange it was, and rather rude. However, I don't think I would have the courage. I probably wouldn't say anything, but it would be uncomfortable. It's sad that they think that of SAHM's. makes me want to say "don't look now but your ignorance is showing!":rolleyes:

[mcconnellboys]

You know, I don't think that they were thinking of YOU as a stay at home with nothing to do. After all, they know that you have a full time job all day long schooling your children. In fact, so many people don't seem to realize this that I think it's pretty astute of them to acknowledge it in that way. I mean, they're your friends - they wouldn't just sit there and talk about you in that way, right? So they must not have been including you in that group at all..... And they certainly shouldn't. You HAVE a full-time job with great, deferred pay, that it may take you a couple of decades to realize.....

I try to see the glass half full most of the time, so maybe I'm totally misreading this conversation from what you've posted. But I just don't get the sense that they even unintentionally meant to dis you....

What I do get the sense of is that you maybe feel guilty that you should be doing MORE for the immediate gratification of your family and yourself. It's hard to ever feel we're doing enough, isn't it?

I hope you won't let this little misunderstanding drive a wedge between you and your friends. It sounds like you do have a really lovely arrangement with them,

Regena

[Doran]

They probably didn't think twice about what they were saying in front of you because they didn't feel they were talking about you.



My thoughts exactly. You are not the sort of "sahm" to which, I think, they were referring. For heaven's sake, you not only homeschool, but have a home business to boot. But, I don't blame you for being incensed. They shouldn't be so critical, and I find that most working mothers who are critical are really just jealous deep down.

Also, Amy, if it touched a nerve -- you should have spoken up. Reminded them of the thinness of the ice on which they trod. You know you don't fit the stereotype. You know you're a full on, busier-than-thou, barely have time to pee kind of stay at home mother. And so are a whole lot of other sahm's. But, it's the principle of the thing.

The edge will be off by the next time you see them. Why not bring up the topic inocently, discuss it until you feel you've made your point, then send them home with some specially made hot pepper soap. :eek:


Doran

[Tammyla]

They were just being clueless & mean, but I don't think they consider you a real SAHM:(. They likely think you are superwoman juggling it all and would know they didn't mean you. You must not be whining enough.

Forget about em...Being a mom is hard work no matter where you put in your hours. I think from time to time, all of us peek over the hill thinking that grass might just be greener:o.

[Mama Lynx]

hiding in a closet, somewhere. You want I should play with them for you? ;-)

Seriously, I've had nearly the same thing happen to me. Except I was at a dear friend's house, who knew well that I homeschooled, and her other guest started bashing homeschoolers outright. My dear friend did not defend me, did not point out to her friend (who had no idea) that I homeschooled, but instead joined in. I was flabbergasted. After a few minutes of goggling, I did jump in and defend myself. Nicely. Just enough that other guest realized that she either had to shut up and be polite, or risk a huge social faux pas.

I'm sure they had *no* idea what they were saying, and they obviously don't think of you in the same class as the women they were raving about. When they figure it out later, they are going to be seriously embarrassed.

[Mamagistra]

(That'll be the day the neighbors drop in! LOL)

No, Andie: have an afternoon beer.

That's the day your kids will go outside and scream a lot.
That's the day you'll think they're playing outside just like they always do.
That's the day they'll get into yellowjackets.
That's the day your neighbors will run a quarter-acre through the woods to rescue your children (and puppies) from the yellowjackets before you realize what's going on.
That's the day you'll realize that you've never met your neighbors and proceed to explain that you home school, blathering on about how you've never EVER seen yellowjackets nor treated their stings while these precious Pentecostal ladies doctor up the welts...then promptly recall that you may have beer on your breath. :eek:

That's the day to switch to bonbons. I'm just sayin'.;)

[Amy in Orlando]

Regena - I think you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your perspective.

Andie - I love the ex-lax in the bean dip!!!!

I'm so relieved to read these responses - I'm not crazy and I'm not alone. Now I must go read the Wiki article on bon-bons. I'll get back to you all and let you know how to incorporate them into our daily lives.

[Ellie]

I'm so relieved to read these responses - I'm not crazy and I'm not alone. Now I must go read the Wiki article on bon-bons. I'll get back to you all and let you know how to incorporate them into our daily lives.

Oh, I think you could do a whole unit study on bonbons, don't you? And when you're finished, you could have an open house and invite all the neighbors to see your bonbon projects...

[Mamagistra]

barely have time to pee kind of stay at home mother

ROFLOL! Right-o!

Don't let it get you down, (((Amy))). They know not what they say. Maybe if we all showed up over there one Friday, eating bonbons and fanning ourselves...the SAHM brigade...heck, we could take 'em. ;)

[gardenschooler]

Sounds like she was in major stress mode, feeling underappreciated and overworked. I'll bet when she thinks about it later, she'll realize that you might think of yourself as something of a SAHM, and realize it wasn't the most tactful way to express herself.

I've got all the bon-bons over here, anyway, so I know all of you guys are hard at work!

[shanmar]

That would burn, although I think everybody else is right, they just aren't putting you in that catogory of moms that stay home and eat bon bons. I don't actually think that catagory actually exists... I mean, what do they think the people who they pay to watch their kids are doing... eating bonbons? It is work.

Now, I am so mental most of the time running from one thing to another, I only average about 6 hours of sleep a night. I am completly and totally overwhelmed. One day in the spring, I had a group of scrapbookers at my B&B. I had gotten up at 6:00 to start breakfast for the 25 of them and a little later I was out working in my flower beds, when some of the women came out and were praising me on how nicely the B&B was decorated.

I gave my silly answer of "Oh, my husband does all the decorating, I just make breakfast and garden."

As they walked away, I heard one of them snidely say to the other "Gee, I wish all I had to do was garden all day."

It was like a knife in my stomach and I wanted to chase them down screaming... "I homeschool FOUR ornery children, who have 10 million activities! And all their work samples are due this week! My phone rings incessently with reservations! Then I have to send all those people confirmations and brouchures, and plan the rest of their visit! and it took me 2 hours to set up for your retreat! and my housekeeper couldn't come, so I had to change 18 beds and clean 7 bathrooms! and it takes me an hour to water all these stupid plants and...."

But I didn't. And it still stings.

[Remudamom]

I would have sat down with them and joined in, ripped sahms all to pieces until they realized what they were doing and in front of whom. Shame on them.

[Amy in Orlando]

Remudamom - what are you doing next Friday? You are cracking me up.

Shanmar, you gardening fool! Thpppt. I'd be putting some itching powder (a la the Brady Bunch) in those gals beds.

Gardenschooler - since you have all the bon-bons - are they all they're cracked up to be? How much for a dozen?

[gardenschooler]

ROFLOL, shanmar.

[dangermom]

Ew. I'd be mad too. I mean, yeah, we homeschool and it's some extra work, but really--I don't know anyone who sits around eating bonbons or anything. I am lucky enough to have a lot of SAHM friends, and they all work at least as hard as I do.

I don't know what I would have done, but it might have involved dumping the bean dip on some heads. :mad:

[dangermom]

We could do some bonbon math--graph the different types of bonbons, have a chart and everything. And then there's the science of candymaking, how the sugar reacts to different temperatures to produce different textures...I'm envisioning great things for this bonbon unit!

[blessedmom5k]

Coming into this late but I would probably tell them that you felt a bit judged just because you have made different choices than they have. And point out how you value your friendship in spite (or maybe because of) your differences. And how much you've learned from each other. If they are people you love being around it would be worth it to me to muster up the strength and say how you feel. It's hard but afterwards you'll feel SO much better and not harbor resentment/hurt feelings. I've done this in the past and my friendships have blossomed because of it. If your friendship can't handle honesty it may not be the best friendship to have anyway.

Hugs, I'm sorry!
Jess

[Virginia Dawn]

Sour Grapes.

Really, what difference does it make to any woman what another woman's life choices are? I just don't get this kind of thinking.

You were very gracious, I would have been steamed. Then I would have started crying, that's what always happens when I get angry and can't figure out how to respond without making everyone hate me.

So what if some woman somewhere has the luxury of staying home and eating bon-bons. (I don't know what one is either) What's it to ya? Is this life a competition? Do we get brownie points for working harder than the next woman? What do the brownie points get me? Maybe I don't want it.

Why should I bust my *** proving my worth to someone else by how many worthwhile activities I am involved in?

Do men guilt each other like this?

[Jean too]

Wait,wait, wait... so you all are saying that since they don't "think" of Amy as a sahm it was ok for this conversation to take place?
I have to say that whether or not they "think" of you as a sahm it was extremely rude and small minded. Since when is it anyone elses business or right to judge other women for the choices they make for their own families?How does your staying home, even if you chose to send your dc to ps and didn't have a homebusiness, have any effect on their lives, or become their business?
I think it is really about jealousy and their own issues. If the subject ever comes up again I'd confront them about it.

[Virginia Dawn]

Looks like we're thinking along the same lines :-)

[Mama Lynx]

Wait,wait, wait... so you all are saying that since they don't "think" of Amy as a sahm it was ok for this conversation to take place?
I have to say that whether or not they "think" of you as a sahm it was extremely rude and small minded. Since when is it anyone elses business or right to judge other women for the choices they make for their own families?How does your staying home, even if you chose to send your dc to ps and didn't have a homebusiness, have any effect on their lives, or become their business?
I think it is really about jealousy and their own issues. If the subject ever comes up again I'd confront them about it.


No, we're not saying it was ok, we're merely offering an excuse for them. That's not the same thing. Obviously, it was a petty and rude conversation they chose to have.

[Lady Katherine]

My advice? Learned the hard way? LET IT GO.

Clearly, your friends don't understand what it means to be a SAHM, probably because they've never worn those shoes. But that's okay. Their lack of understanding doesn't make them bad, it just means they can't identify. It's doubtful that anything you say will make it clear to them, but that's okay. I'm sure there is plenty you (and I) don't understand about being a work-away-from-home mom. And even if you did, everyone is different, and everyone's job is different. So there will always be things we don't understand about each other. That's just the nature of the beast.

More importantly, good friends are very hard to come by -- they are few and far between. I've lost friends over situations like this; and I assure you, what I lost ended up being far, FAR more valuable than any "points" I gained by standing my ground and defending my position.

It's so much better just to LET THIS GO, and focus on the good things about the relationship. There are no perfect people in this world. If you let this disagreement spoil the friendship, you may or may not find another good friend to replace them (probably not -- it sounds like you have a wonderful situation here). Even if you did, that person would eventually let you down, too. It's inevitable. In the end, every human being you know will let you down in some way or another. Only God is constant. Only He will never let you down.

So let it go. Let it roll off you like water off a duck's back. Focus on the good things about the friendship, and let things like this slip right out of your head. It's not worth it. REALLY. Treasure your friends and forgive, forgive, forgive, and forgive.

[LNC]

I haven't read the other replies, but my guess is that they don't really consider you a "stay at home" mom. They know you have a home business and homeschool your children, so you are working all day too.
Maybe?

[dirty ethel rackham]

Wait,wait, wait... so you all are saying that since they don't "think" of Amy as a sahm it was ok for this conversation to take place?
I have to say that whether or not they "think" of you as a sahm it was extremely rude and small minded. Since when is it anyone elses business or right to judge other women for the choices they make for their own families?How does your staying home, even if you chose to send your dc to ps and didn't have a homebusiness, have any effect on their lives, or become their business?
I think it is really about jealousy and their own issues. If the subject ever comes up again I'd confront them about it.

I have to agree here. Whether or not they consider OP a SAHM is irrelevent. It is rude and disrespectful to all SAHMs. I have only known a couple women who figuratively "ate bon-bons", but they were either very sick with depression or were terribly self-centered women who did very little parenting and it showed.

Most SAHMs that I know (not including the ones that homeschool or have homebusinesses) work VERY hard. When I worked part-time, the day at my job was WAY less taxing than my day at home with my littles. Just being that available to children is very draining. I wouldn't have traded it in a million years, but it did take so much more out of me (and I wasn't even superwoman at home - just ask dh:).

I have to say that OP showed great restraint. I have slowly let go of my friendships with women who felt this way because it tainted everything else about our friendship. I could not feel respected in that kind of relationship.

[Andie]

Wait,wait, wait... so you all are saying that since they don't "think" of Amy as a sahm it was ok for this conversation to take place?
I have to say that whether or not they "think" of you as a sahm it was extremely rude and small minded. Since when is it anyone elses business or right to judge other women for the choices they make for their own families?How does your staying home, even if you chose to send your dc to ps and didn't have a homebusiness, have any effect on their lives, or become their business?
I think it is really about jealousy and their own issues. If the subject ever comes up again I'd confront them about it.

No, not at all. I thought about that when I posted, but I didn't think that was the central issue. Amy's feelings and their intention seemed to be what wwere most bothersome, if that makes sense. Of course they shouldn't have talked about anyone like that, period; they were being judgmental and displaying astounding ignorance. But Amy was hurt that she might be included in *insert whatever group of miscreants* they thought they'd had pegged, and I doubt they did include her.

[Krista in LA]

Well I think I would have been biting my lip to hold back some comment about people who send their kids to school. But then again, that could be why I don't hang out with my neighbors on Friday nights.

I agree with the others that they probably don't really see you as a SAHM and were probably talking about the people who send their kids to school and then have the whole day free to do what they want. No doubt they are jealous. Let it pass if you can.

[kalanamak]

her husband. Really. I'm betting he doesn't do his share of work around the house (I hear the majority of 2paycheck families are this way....he has work, some yard work and "hobbies" (football watching, fishing). She has work and housework and the one to be with the kids when they are sick, and the one to wrap the Christmas presents etc etc etc and no hobbies.) She was just tired and didn't mean you, honey. She was just TGIF'ing.

[Just Me]

I think, if it were me, I would have laughed and said, "Hey, whoa, are you talking about me?" just to let them know that you heard the conversation. Then they would have been able to explain themselves.

I have found that trying to laugh off the situation usually diffuses it a little. I am sure they weren't discussing you, but I do understand your feelings. I have also unfortunately done this before - ie. make some thoughtless comment without considering who might be listening. Then I have to backpedal and make them understand that I wasn't talking about them! :o And, I never was!!

(((Hugs to you!!))

[dangermom]

Coming into this late but I would probably tell them that you felt a bit judged just because you have made different choices than they have. And point out how you value your friendship in spite (or maybe because of) your differences. And how much you've learned from each other. If they are people you love being around it would be worth it to me to muster up the strength and say how you feel. It's hard but afterwards you'll feel SO much better and not harbor resentment/hurt feelings. I've done this in the past and my friendships have blossomed because of it. If your friendship can't handle honesty it may not be the best friendship to have anyway.

Hugs, I'm sorry!
JessI do think that this would be the best thing to do, and also the hardest. I don't know that I'd be brave enough! But if it was me, I'd have a really hard time feeling the same way towards them unless I did do it. You may well be better at letting things roll off you, though.

[GothicGyrl]

You know, me and my smart arsed mouth would have walked up and said "Yeah, that's why I can't get rid of this extra 50 lbs. Because I sit around eating bon-bons and watching Marlena get possessed all day--of course, then my son had to go and (fall out of a tree), but nothing was broken, so now he sits on the couch with me watching Marlena get possessed eating bon-bons, but sheesh, it must be the kid in him because I think I've gained all of his extra weight. Bean Dip?"

:)

[Amy in Orlando]

You know, me and my smart arsed mouth would have walked up and said "Yeah, that's why I can't get rid of this extra 50 lbs. Because I sit around eating bon-bons and watching Marlena get possessed all day--of course, then my son had to go and (fall out of a tree), but nothing was broken, so now he sits on the couch with me watching Marlena get possessed eating bon-bons, but sheesh, it must be the kid in him because I think I've gained all of his extra weight. Bean Dip?"

:)

LOL I wish I could think that fast irl. (And, I had no idea Marlena was still possessed!)

[Snickerdoodle]

I got the feeling that the women in the OP were feeling defensive of their decision to work out of the home. One of the woman said about how she couldn't stand women who stay at home all day and if only they knew how hard she worked and blah, blah, blah..

That sounds to me like she (the neighbor) is feeling under appreciated in her own life.

[OnTheBrink]

LOL I wish I could think that fast irl. (And, I had no idea Marlena was still possessed!)


This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP, but I grew up living behind the woman who married Patch. She was 3 years ahead of me in high school and her brother was one year behind. Back in the '80's, Patch drove a black BMW. LOL

[GothicGyrl]

LOL I wish I could think that fast irl. (And, I had no idea Marlena was still possessed!)
She isn't, which is what makes it perfect. Because if they knew anything about Soaps, they'd come back with "marlena was possessed back 4 years ago".. to which you could say "Oh, my, then I must really be out of the loop because we only have rabbit ears and I have to do this funny dance to get the channels in and well, I think I might be channelling her ghost or something... hmm, I wonder what she's doing now?"

And say it all with such a snarky tone of voice and a huge smile on your face that they'll either want to commit you right then and there, or they'll "get" what you are trying to say.

[Amy in Orlando]

Just an update - hate to leave anyone hanging.

I saw one of the women this morning. She mentioned that I'd seemed a little "pissy" last night. So I told her why. She's a southern gal. She exclaimed "Well, mah guhdness, ah don't include you in that category!" I mentioned that I did include mahself in that category and that maybe she might be assuming a lot about what she didn't know. We'll see. We DID part on friendly terms. Maybe a little more bristly than normal, but mostly normal.

I saw the other neighbor this evening when I went to collect my son. She was all apologies. She said she noticed that I was a bit short when they left last night. She said she'd been thinking about the conversation since last night. She was apologetic in a strange way (more about her and other neighbor working so hard and being so stressed and blah, blah, blah) - but I accepted her apology.

I think there will always be a divide among us, but at least they both realized that they'd crossed a line. I dunno. I think if you are a mom, it's all stressful no matter how you choose to live your life. And, like everything else, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Thanks everyone for being my sounding board last night. I was really down. I DO believe dh and I have made the right choice and, while it's not for everyone, I think we will be able to look down the road 20 years from now and feel that we did the right thing.

[Shannon831]

I haven't read all of the responses, so excuse this if it's a repeat. I wonder how that conversation started? Maybe one of them had a run in with a "holier-than-thou" sahm and that got them going. Chances are, it didn't even occur to them that it would be hurtful to you. hth,

[JudoMom]

That's the day to switch to bonbons. I'm just sayin'.;)

ROFLOL! Way to bust through those stereotypes :D!

[Volty]

For those that think "Oh it's not us they're talking about, it's the women that put their kids in school and stay at home that they're talking about" I disagree. I'm not going to mince words, I think they were talking about Amy. That's why it hurt Amy and twisted her in knots.

Now posting as I do here on page five I have the benefit none of the rest of you have of reading Amy's experience from the day after.

She wrote this *****

I think there will always be a divide among us, but at least they both realized that they'd crossed a line. I dunno. I think if you are a mom, it's all stressful no matter how you choose to live your life. And, like everything else, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Thanks everyone for being my sounding board last night. I was really down. I DO believe dh and I have made the right choice and, while it's not for everyone, I think we will be able to look down the road 20 years from now and feel that we did the right thing. *****

Had I gotten the chance I'd like to say just that and I think she handled it well. We all make choices. We all delibertly chose to homeschool. Most families exist on two incomes, those of us that chose to homeschool (mostly all) live on one know that money will be tighter, that people may not accept our decision- either through jealousy or condencension.

We made that decision because we consider it the best one for our family. Our kids are better off being taught at home and if we don't feel we were doing a good job or that it's worth the trouble, we know where the public schools are. A second income woud be nice, but we'd rather teach at home, we think that's best for our family and we make the necessary sacrifices to make that happen.

I think you're all wonderful and outstanding. I think you made a great choice, if not a difficult one. Toughen up and defend yourselves, people.