Parent teaching language they are not fluent in?

[ltlmrs]

I had four years of French in high school and never took it again or really even used it except for two very short trips to Paris. At the time when I took French, I had very good pronunciation and oral comprehension and finished on a solid high intermediate level of spoken French. I couldn't be mistaken for a native :lol:, but I won a couple language competitions based on my pronunciation and could understand native speakers fairly well even if they were speaking quickly with vocab I was not familiar with.

Since I want Ladybug to study French at some point in time (sometime after Latin, but before Greek was the original plan), I recently went to the library and picked up a couple of French books and tapes so that I could start reviewing.

I'm amazed how quickly everything is coming back to me! I think in a few months I can get back to the level I was at before and maybe even start moving forward. This all got me thinking about maybe starting to read in French to Ladybug. We have a French word book and so far whenever we've looked at it, I've named the pictures in Russian. I'm wondering if it would be too confusing to go ahead and name the words in French and maybe get a few toddler books to read to her (both to help me with my French and to start teaching her).

My American BIL learned Russian before my nephew was born and has since spoken to him in Russian (so nephew was raised monolingual until he started school this year). The problem has been, however, that BIL's Russian isn't very good grammatically and although he got around fine when he was visiting Russia, my mother and I have been worried that it may harm my nephew's language skills to have a non-native Russian speaker speak to him consistently incorrectly in Russian (I hope that makes sense). I have the same worry about trying to teach Ladybug French via immersion (even if it started out with me simply reading to her in French). Is this a valid worry? Could I just read to her in French until my own French gets better and still have a good effect?

Also forgot to add that we listen to French music fairly often too, so it's not like Ladybug has never heard French before.

Thanks!

[regentrude]

I would be skeptical.
I know how hard it it to teach a child the native language of both parents via immersion - we speak only German at home, and it is a lot of work to get children to be really proficient.
For "immersion" to be successful, it is not sufficient to read the occasional book in the language - it requires several hours of daily exposure to the language. Are you able and willing to do that? Is your French good enough so that you can get through the day with it in all situations?

I think the situation with your BIL may be different. I assume he has a Russian wife so that your nephew has access to a native speaker? If so, his incorrect Russian, while not ideal, will probably not cause a lot of harm.

I have not yet come across a family who successfully got their children to learn a language via "immersion" that no parent is speaking. The child can certainly learn any language at a later point via traditional methods, but I do not believe that it will make much of a difference if somebody read him a few children's books when they were little. There are many initiatives for early foreign languages (English in preschool) in my home country, and as far as I know , they make no real difference unless it is a truly bilingual environment.

[ltlmrs]

The child can certainly learn any language at a later point via traditional methods, but I do not believe that it will make much of a difference if somebody read him a few children's books when they were little. There are many initiatives for early foreign languages (English in preschool) in my home country, and as far as I know , they make no real difference unless it is a truly bilingual environment.

Thank you! This is exactly what I needed to know. I had no illusions about recreating 'immersion' or anything like that. I was just wondering if reading to her in French and later speaking to her would help her when she started French as a formal school subject.

[Jenny Piaaree]

I'm no expert, but I think exposing her to the French accent now would help her to develop a good accent later if she learns the language. How about watching French movies? A friend of mine (now 18 yo) watched tons of Indian movies growing up, and now that she is learning to speak Punjabi, she has a great accent. It doesn't necessarily mean it's all from the movies, but it couldn't hurt.

[WendyK]

It won't hurt, but I can't say it will be super helpful. My husband has spoken only German to both of our children since birth. Despite that, their German is not so great. He works with them formally as well. It's still not so great! So I'm thinking some occasional scattered exposure of the French and the Russian won't hurt, but won't necessary help.

[ltlmrs]

So I'm thinking some occasional scattered exposure of the French and the Russian won't hurt, but won't necessary help.

Just to clarify, the scattered exposure would only be to French. I am a native Russian speaker and have spoken to Ladybug in Russian from birth as well as *only* reading to her in Russian so far. I also plan to homeschool mostly in Russian and teach English as a separate subject.

But, even so, I completely see what you mean because she is already answering me mostly in English when I speak to her :confused:

No, I think you have convinced me to stick to the current language schedule: Russian & English, Latin then French and then Greek.

[WendyK]

Just to clarify, the scattered exposure would only be to French. I am a native Russian speaker and have spoken to Ladybug in Russian from birth as well as *only* reading to her in Russian so far. I also plan to homeschool mostly in Russian and teach English as a separate subject.

But, even so, I completely see what you mean because she is already answering me mostly in English when I speak to her :confused:

No, I think you have convinced me to stick to the current language schedule: Russian & English, Latin then French and then Greek.

Ah ok. Yeah the kids heavily resist the German. They don't generally answer their dad in German. He has tried completely ignoring them until they do. That didn't really work. They just started avoiding asking him anything. :glare:

But, there may be some hope. When we go to Germany and they have no choice they do quite well. So apparently they are learning something.

[Ester Maria]

There was a thread (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201344) on a similar topic, in which I wrote a few posts which marginally deal with the importance of having native or at least very proficient speakers as role models when learning a language.

Long story put short, if you're not a very proficient speaker, don't be her main role model for that language and her main source of it. When estimating whether you're a very proficient speaker, take into account how many books and how many diverse books you've read in French, how much time you spent with other francophones that wasn't small talk but actual coherent discussions on a plethora of topics, whether you'd be able to study in French whatever is your field, whether you can handle different layers of the language ("koi29"-like texting as well as Moliere?), etc. Proficiency includes a lot more than just spoken fluency, i.e. conversational skills; it implies also that there is a certain accuracy in use, certain easiness when using the language, and so forth.

Very proficient non-native speakers are very few, usually those who spent significant amounts of time abroad, were educated in the language or studied it extensively in an academic setting (extensively as in, they have degrees in it and are able to teach them). French is also a very tricky language, not only with regards to the phonology, but also morphology and syntax; can you really use subjunctives of the pluperfect in passive without thinking, naturally?

Of course, if you aren't your daughter's main source of French and you expose her to very proficient and native role models, there's little to worry about. :)