Intro and a couple of questions

[ltlmrs]

Wow, I'm so glad I stumbled upon this forum. I read the book even before I was ever married, but I just now found the WTM forums!

I'm a native Russian speaker living in the US. DH is an American and we're raising our 2 year old Ladybug (and any future children) bilingual. The plan had been to homeschool her mostly in Russian (maybe 60-75% in Russian, including most of the core subjects like math because my dad is a math teacher and he brought many of his Russian language resources with him when we immigrated). Since Russian grammar is more complex, we figured that if we focused on the Russian, Latin & Greek would be easier to pick up later. And I had no issues with ESL (in fact, English is my dominant language). Well, it turns out that our state has requirements that instruction needs to be in English :glare:

We also have a minimum number of instructional hours to meet and required subjects (language arts, history, math and civics) so we could do Russian as a foreign language but couldn't use it as the primary method of instruction.

I'm really worried about this because I'm not very active in the Russian community here (variety of reasons, mostly religious & cultural) and I was counting on Russian as the primary home/homeschool language to better the odds of her actually growing up bilingual. DH works long hours so he's not around as much as I am and even so she speaks better English than Russian and responds to me in English even though I've spoken to her in Russian from birth. :confused:

So, what to do? Is there someway to fulfil the state mandated language requirement and have a trully bilingual homeschool?

Also, if you're a OPOL household, do you still read to your child in your secondary language or only in your primary language? Up to this point, I've only read to her in Russian, but DH doesn't have as much time to read to her as I would like and I feel like she's really missing out on some great English language children's literature (Mother Goose, Robert Louis Stevenson's poetry, etc). Would it be okay for me to read to her half the day in Russian and the other half in English?

TIA!

[Rosie_0801]

You could cover the absolute minimum legal requirements in English, then use Russian for the rest of what you are doing, couldn't you? And if it says "instruction," then you would be able to conduct discussions in Russian?

You can read to her in whichever language you like. There is no way you can read all of the good children's books in one language, so guilt for not covering all there is available in two language is taking Mamma Guilt too far!


Rosie

[Laura Corin]

Certainly in the early years, the state mandated hours can't be very many - I'd do some research to see how many the requirement covers. If we assume half-day kindergarten, then you can spend three hours a day in English up to age six, then the rest of the day (instruction plus life) in Russian. This can include (as Rosie said) lots of read-alouds in Russian and anything else you fancy.

Laura

[Ester Maria]

The plan had been to homeschool her mostly in Russian (maybe 60-75% in Russian, including most of the core subjects like math because my dad is a math teacher and he brought many of his Russian language resources with him when we immigrated). Since Russian grammar is more complex, we figured that if we focused on the Russian, Latin & Greek would be easier to pick up later.
Excellent plan. ;)
We also have a minimum number of instructional hours to meet and required subjects (language arts, history, math and civics) so we could do Russian as a foreign language but couldn't use it as the primary method of instruction.
Of course you could.
It's called "supplements". :tongue_smilie:
So you'll have anglophone materials, big deal. You'll "supplement" those with Russian materials. Being that Russian materials are harder and better, it should be a joke to breeze through the anglophone ones just to get the terms down. In effetti, it's going to be bilingual homeschooling, but in practice it might well end up mostly-Russian. And you'll log about it in English, cover English language arts properly (not ESL, but English as a first language), and make sure she knows in English all she has studied in Russian and thus has the minimum knowledge required in the areas needed.

It's a LOT easier than it actually sounds (ask me how I know, but we're responsibile to a foreign power for our education :D, so we're a bit of a different boat).
I am and even so she speaks better English than Russian and responds to me in English even though I've spoken to her in Russian from birth. :confused:
Continue to insist on it. They grow out of it if you're adamant. You'd have to, though, somehow connect her with other kids who speak Russian, or get her travel to Russia a bit.
So, what to do? Is there someway to fulfil the state mandated language requirement and have a trully bilingual homeschool?
Sure, "supplement" your materials. In the end who cares whether you're actually supplementing Russian by English or English by Russian. The bottomline is that the RESULTS are no worse than those of an average anglophone child. With Russian school materials, the chances for that are minimal. More things will transfer than you imagine.

Also, insist on Russian NOW. It'll be more difficult when the child is older / high school, if they plan to study in the US. Now it's the perfect time to get down both languages properly.

[regentrude]

We are a German speaking household and homeschool to a large part in English. The kids actually went to public school for several years, so they were in an English speaking environment for 7-8 hours a day, leaving German as family language outside of school only.
Nevertheless, this has been sufficient for both children to be fluent speakers in German without an accent, to read German well and to write some (albeit with spelling problems).
If we had homeschooled form the beginning and had taken time (and discipline) to systematically teach German spelling and grammar, they would be proficient in writing as well.
So in my experience, it should be no problem fulfilling the state requirements and parallel to it having a strong Russian education. they can't mandate more than six hours - and that leaves the same amount of time and more for Russian. (Kids learn the language even when it is not "school" time and you just talk and play)

We have no german community either, they are only exposed to it at home.
I mostly read to my children in German, but began reading English to, and with, them when they entered school, in order to help them to learn to read.

Good luck.

[CleoQc]

Well, it turns out that our state has requirements that instruction needs to be in English :glare:

she speaks better English than Russian and responds to me in English even though I've spoken to her in Russian from birth. :confused:


Funny, here we have a requirement that instruction needs to be in French :tongue_smilie:
Concretely, that means the child should have enough working knowledge of the mandatory language to pass tests in that language. And for the parents to be able to list school books in that language. In practice, whether you use the books 100% of the time, or 10% of the time, as long as the child has developped the vocabulary necessary to pass a test (either written or oral) is up to you.

As for your child speaking English to you, it's a normal step in OPOL. She will not use Russian if you're the only one speaking it. The language is not *useful* if only one person speaks it, especially if the child knows that person also speaks English. But don't give up ! Most parents give up at this point and regret it later (even the kids regret it because they lose a language!) Keep it up. Do what you can so your child is exposed to more Russian speakers, even if it means you're bending backwards for a community you're not really a part of.

[ltlmrs]

Thank you so much for all your responses! I definitely feel a lot better now.

I did not mean to indicate that she only hears Russian from me. We actually live in the same neighborhood as my parents and siblings and she sees her Russian family almost daily, whereas DH's family doesn't even live in the same town and her only regular exposure to the English speaking community is in church. But, her cousins recently started school and are speaking more and more often in English to each other (especially her oldest cousin). I also speak with my husband in English. I think she's just figured out that everybody understands English, but Daddy doesn't understand Russian, so it's easier to just speak in English.

The state requirements are actually 6 hours per day for all levels (this is incredibly disturbing to me because I can't imagine doing 6 hours of school work until the 5th or 6th grade).

I think I will just stick with the plan as is. Thank you for clarifying for me what you do in your homeschools because it is very encouraging to me. I know that school was a major reason why my younger siblings did not retain their Russian speaking abilities as well as my older siblings (I am the middle child so I both don't have an accent in English and can still read/write in Russian). I really feel that being homeschooled is the best way for her to maintain that link to her Russian heritage.

[regentrude]

The state requirements are actually 6 hours per day for all levels (this is incredibly disturbing to me because I can't imagine doing 6 hours of school work until the 5th or 6th grade).


Depends on what you consider "school work".
For a young child, drawing, cutting, sorting, board games, read-alouds are educational activities.
Field trips, museums, concerts, library trips etc are all educational.
When the child can read independently, reading time counts (they do have time budgeted in public school for independent self selected reading, too)
Add arts, crafts, PE... 6 hours is not that hard.

[Mandarinmom]

Does it make sense to read a lot in second language if we have just started to learn it? My native is Russian, but did not speak Russian to my daughter from the birth. When she grew older it became confusing, and she refused to follow, and I practically gave up. Now she is almost 8, and I am trying to pick up the broken pieces and start it all over again, to teach her Russian at least as a foreign language, and we both are very enthusiastic and work a lot, though progress is still very minimal. She doesn't have any practical vocabulary to understand anything I would read to her. Should I just keep working on vocabulary and grammar for Russian as a foreign language and introduce any literature when she will actually understand it by herself , or should I also introduce some reading and explain her the meaning? I am not giving a hope that she still may learn it enough to be very fluent. Any ideas? What would you do in my case? Thanks, ladies, Lena

[NayfiesMama]

Hi Lena,
I see you're in Oregon; I can't remember if you're secular. If not, there are several churches here, and I think that would be the best way to find friends to speak Russian with, for your daughter. We have "Old Believers" Russian Churches... Baptist Russian Churches... etc... and... if you were to do a "play time" with some... I think that may spark some interest, too. :)

[Sputterduck]

Does it make sense to read a lot in second language if we have just started to learn it? My native is Russian, but did not speak Russian to my daughter from the birth. When she grew older it became confusing, and she refused to follow, and I practically gave up. Now she is almost 8, and I am trying to pick up the broken pieces and start it all over again, to teach her Russian at least as a foreign language, and we both are very enthusiastic and work a lot, though progress is still very minimal. She doesn't have any practical vocabulary to understand anything I would read to her. Should I just keep working on vocabulary and grammar for Russian as a foreign language and introduce any literature when she will actually understand it by herself , or should I also introduce some reading and explain her the meaning? I am not giving a hope that she still may learn it enough to be very fluent. Any ideas? What would you do in my case? Thanks, ladies, Lena

My son reads Hebrew but doesn't understand it yet. He is 6.

[CleoQc]

Does it make sense to read a lot in second language if we have just started to learn it?

I can only speak for myself and my family. I read to my kids in English way before they could understand it. I read a sentence, then translated it. And we read each book many times. I eventually got to a point where I could read a page (we're talking picture books, here, not chapter books) and translate at the end of each page. I would pinpoint some word, and ask my child for the translation.

The kids didn't like it much, but eventually they realized they were understanding more and more. And one day they each chose to read chapter books in their second language. That happened around the age of 9, if memory serves me right. My daughter turned 10 a month ago, and she's now reading the Warriors books (that series about feral cats) They're pretty big books, especially in a second language!

[affseofl2654]

Excellent plan. ;)

Of course you could.
It's called "supplements". :tongue_smilie:
So you'll have anglophone materials, big deal. You'll "supplement" those with Russian materials. Being that Russian materials are harder and better, it should be a joke to breeze through the anglophone ones just to get the terms down. In effetti, it's going to be bilingual homeschooling, but in practice it might well end up mostly-Russian. And you'll log about it in English, cover English language arts properly (not ESL, but English as a first language), and make sure she knows in English all she has studied in Russian and thus has the minimum knowledge required in the areas needed.

It's a LOT easier than it actually sounds (ask me how I know, but we're responsibile to a foreign power for our education :D, so we're a bit of a different boat).

Continue to insist on it. They grow out of it if you're adamant. You'd have to, though, somehow connect her with other kids who speak Russian, or get her travel to Russia a bit.

Sure, "supplement" your materials. In the end who cares whether you're actually supplementing Russian by English or English by Russian. The bottomline is that the RESULTS are no worse than those of an average anglophone child. With Russian school materials, the chances for that are minimal. More things will transfer than you imagine.

Also, insist on Russian NOW. It'll be more difficult when the child is older / high school, if they plan to study in the US. Now it's the perfect time to get down both languages properly.
We are a German speaking household and homeschool to a large part in English. The kids actually went to public school for several years, so they were in an English speaking environment for 7-8 hours a day, leaving German as family language outside of school only.
Nevertheless, this has been sufficient for both children to be fluent speakers in German without an accent, to read German well and to write some (albeit with spelling problems).
If we had homeschooled form the beginning and had taken time (and discipline) to systematically teach German spelling and grammar, they would be proficient in writing as well.
So in my experience, it should be no problem fulfilling the state requirements and parallel to it having a strong Russian education. they can't mandate more than six hours - and that leaves the same amount of time and more for Russian. (Kids learn the language even when it is not "school" time and you just talk and play)

We have no german community either, they are only exposed to it at home.
I mostly read to my children in German, but began reading English to, and with, them when they entered school, in order to help them to learn to read.