Advice for redundant language arts curriculm?

[Margaret]

Next year I am thinking of using Writting with ease1, FLL3, Writing Tales1, HWT, and maybe CLE for my 3rd grader for language arts. We also did prima latina this year. Does this seem a bit too much of the same thing to anyone? Which program should I cut/add to have everything he needs?

Thanks, Margaret

[Stacy in NJ]

I think that Writing with Ease and Writing Tales are probably redundent. You'll probably also find the FLL and WWE overlap a bit, but Peacehill Press as some information about this on their website. Do you have a spelling program?

[jg_puppy]

Are you planning on using CLE language arts or CLE reading? I am trying to decide between the same programs that you are. The only difference is that I am thinking about using Simply Spelling and a different handwriting.

We are planning on working through the summer using some lanugage arts books that I found on google books and will see where we are at the beginning of the fall. Right now, but dd is not ready for WT1 so that helps me to not worry about that one for now. I think FLL3 and WWE are both going to have copywork and dictation and you wouldn't have to do both. I have been thinking that the most of what is in FLL3 will be covered in other things we are doing except diagramming. I am still trying to figure out if I need that in 3rd or if it would be better to wait until 4th. My dd will be a younger 3rd grader so I think we could go either way. Not sure if this helps at all, but I wanted you to know that you are not alone.

Jan

[Sue G in PA]

w/ the exception of CLE. My plan for my 3rd grader (he is an older 3rd grader...late Oct. bday) is this: FLL3 and WT1 (starting as soon as our books arrive). He will be doing AAS Level 1 & 2 (possible just 2 if 1 is too easy since he is a good speller already) combined with Simply Spelling for the dictation. We are also starting LLATL (Yellow book, 3rd grade) this week. I love how it's all combined and so we're doing a trial run of it from now through the summer. Many would consider this overkill, but dh and I both agree that LA is very important. We haven't done formal grammar up until this point (only dabbled in FLL 1/2 until he got super bored AND he didn't retain much anyway!), so FLL3 combined w/ the grammar in WT1 and LLATL will be good for him. I'm going to look at WWE at a conference in July b/c I'm considering it for my 2nd grader. If I buy it, I might use some of the exercises for my 3rd grader as well. BUT, LLATL does have copywork and dictation as does FLL3. So...we'll see. I'd go for it and just see how it works for your 3rd grader. You might find that WWE and FLL3 is redundant. SWB actually recommends skipping the copywork/dictation, etc. in FLL if you are using WWE. HTH.

[Margaret]

Thankyou Stacy, jg, and Sue for responding.

In answer to your questions, I am using sequential spelling for my ds. He will also be an older 3rd grader (June birthday) and unless I'm convinced of something better:001_smile:will buy it again for next year.

I've flirted with using LLATL, but having not seen that, or even WT1, CLE Reading, or WWE, it is difficult to know exactly what I am getting us into. From spending hours on the boards here, these seem to be the products that people rave about, and the websites look equally good.

We have not done a reading or writting program up till now, just copywork, dictation that I choose and FLL 1/2. It seemed, from the little I've read that SWB didn't really advocate any more than copy work and dicatation in the early elementary years. But I am open to other opinions

I was wondering if any of you knew if there was a CD of songs that went along with FLL that would help the kids memorize all the grammar definitions?

I agree that language arts is extremely important, I am afraid though if I give him too much of it, I will burn him out. So I want to eliminate the books that are the least necessary (and that will help me stay in budget)

Why would you use LLATL as well as WT1? They seem the same to me.

I'm sorry I don't know what AAS Level 1 and 2 is....another curriculm to explore for me???:001_smile::tongue_smilie: Thanks for taking the time to give me your advice and input, I'm still trying to figure it all out. Margaret

[Sue G in PA]

Why use LLATL and WT1? Well, b/c I love them both! :tongue_smilie: I, too, don't want to burn my dc out, but he does so very little NOW that adding these won't be burn-out. WT1 covers some grammar and writing. LLATL covers copywork, basic grammar, literature (4 books are read and studies), spelling although not a FULL program and in level 3...cursive is taught. BUT, ds will skip the cursive since he already uses A Reason for Handwriting and is learning it already.

AAS is All About Spelling. It teaches spelling from a phonetic/rules-based perspective. Big difference btwn this program and other rules-based programs, from what I can see, is that it not only teaches the rules and has the dc memorize them but it teacher *why* as well. For ex/ WHY do we double the consonants before adding ing or ed to a word? KWIM? For my struggling speller (ds9), he NEEDS a program like this. Some kids just don't. I might decide mid-way NOT to use one or more of those programs I mentioned. For right now, ds8 loves LLATL (only takes 15 min. each day!). Haven't ordered FLL 3 Student yet, so I don't know. Haven't started WT1 yet either, so don't know how that'll go either. I could easily wait a year for that b/c it is recommended for 3rd or 4th. We'll play it by ear!

[Margaret]

Sue G have you ever considered CLE for developing reading skills, kind of like you are for LLATL? Do you know if they are comparable? I am not a proponet of CLE reading, I've never seen it. I am just trying to find a reading curriculm that will teach elements of style well. I sort of thought that was WT1.

I wish there was a reading curriculm out there that selected 1 book from each chapter of the SOTW, and taught style from those books.

[TracyR]

From what I hear , we haven't tried it yet but CLE has an excellent writing program . Just because its made by Mennonites doesn't mean its simple by anymeans . CLE's reading does teach the elements of reading . But its not combined with their LA which is a seperate program in itself as well . I've heard wonderful things about the stories how wholesome they are and how well put together the who program in itself is put together . There is a CLE group and you can see samples and ask more questions there of those who use CLE Reading as well as a CLE representative that can give you more detailed info on their reading program . But I have read it can get intense in the upper grades .

As for WT1 its a writing program that includes grammar , and some spelling . As far as how much grammar you want is up to you . To me WT1 has plenty in it for a 3rd grader , but if your using it for a 4th grader you may want to beef it up with a seperate grammar program . If your child struggles with spelling you will want to add a traditional spelling program as WT's focuses only on the words they misspell in the writing of their rough drafts . For us its not an issue . I have a seperate spelling program already .
If anyone is interested I've been posting daily of our works with Writing Tales 1 on our homeschool blog .

To the orignial poster to me WWE and WT1 would be too much of the same thing . I would chose one over the other . I'm not familar with FLL3 so can't comment on that .

[Sue G in PA]

it uses little "snippets" of whole books to teach elements of style. Correct me if I am wrong! This is not my preferred way of teaching this. I much prefer the whole book approach that DITHOR uses for this. LLATL does have whole book studies, but uses passages from other good literature for copywork/dictation and perhaps a bit of spelling. I'm not sure what else b/c we haven't gotten that far yet!

I love WT so far. I have gotten the WT2 set and am starting ds9 on it tomorrow! Like I said, we're playing it by ear. If it all gets to be too much...I'll end up dropping one program or another.

[Margaret]

thanks again for all the input, and just in case Tracy, I don't think any of us called CLE simple, maybe you are responding to a different thread or misread someone? I'd be curious to hear back from everyone in a few months to know who likes WWE, WT1 , or other programs the best. -since many of them are new.

[jg_puppy]

it uses little "snippets" of whole books to teach elements of style. Correct me if I am wrong!


I have not used CLE, but it is something that I am considering using at some point. I thought CLE used mainly short stories. Is there a good place to find out the answer to this, because I agree using a snippet of a book wouldn’t be my preferred method either?

Jan

[MIch elle]

it uses little "snippets" of whole books to teach elements of style. Correct me if I am wrong! This is not my preferred way of teaching this.

No "snippets" in CLE reading; if there are some it's the exception.

CLE reading is a reader/5 workbooks for grades 4-8 and uses short stories and poetry. Those short stories are written as short stories from the authors such as Leo Tolstoy, Pearl S.Buck, Ernest Thompson Seton, O.Henry and many others (gr. 8 authors).

CLE reading 3 is a reader and 10 workbooks;here's what's included:

SUNRISE READING 300 – Doors to Discovery
301
Vocabulary words; the glossary
Scanning for details
Honesty; “Walking honestly”
Cause and effect
Analyzing a character’s feelings
Homographs; synonyms; homophones
Oral reading with good expression
Fact and opinion; inferring answers
Figures of speech
Creatures that “sing” in the night
Reading orally to show emotions
Categorizing words; sequencing
words
Why some creatures are nocturnal
-ous, -ive, -ance, and -ence words
Predicting the results of actions
Bible figures of speech
Pronouns and antecedents
Why carelessness is wrong
Another title for a story
Soft answers for given situations
Anachronisms and inconsistencies
Scanning to verify statements
306
Using a simple map
Vocabulary words
Story setting
How God answers prayer
Categories and sequencing
Ways of communicating
A story character’s motives
The most important thing
Explaining inconsistencies
God’s provision and protection
Translating a verse into other “languages”
The preciousness of the Bible
Dictionary or glossary parts
Homographs
Another title for a story
Rhyming words in poetry
Antecedents of pronouns
302
Vocabulary words
Causes of various effects
Homophones
Categorizing words
Oral reading skills
Loving your enemies
Rewording phrases
Pronouns and antecedents
Making inferences
Thanking God for seeds
Alphabetizing by third letters
Comparing and contrasting two things
Probable or improbable
Friendliness to strangers
Figures of speech
Interpreting poetry; rhyming words
The results of laziness
The main idea
Scanning for specific paragraphs
Causes of various effects
Diligence in work
Meanings of Bible phrases
Putting stories in their time frame
God can do the “impossible”
307
Vocabulary words; context clues
Working with simple maps
Identifying nonfiction stories
Descriptive language in poetry
Man’s life is a vapor
Scanning for words
Analyzing a character’s feelings
Choosing more interesting words
Fact and opinion
Rewriting sentences
What a character could have done
Another title for a story; story order
Alphabetizing by fourth letters
Antonyms; synonyms; homophones;
homographs
Prompt, unquestioning obedience
Observing and recording sounds
Using the five senses
The braille alphabet
Working with poems; figures of speech
Ways to help a blind person
Pronouns and their antecedents
Noisy words (onomatopoeia)
Perseverance; steadfastness
303
Vocabulary words
Alphabetizing by third letters
Meaning changed by accented
syllable
Rules for oral reading
Matching dialogue to speaker
Placing a story in its time frame
Figures of speech
Analyzing story characters’ feelings
Doing as you please does not bring
happiness
Sequencing story events
Categorizing words
Scanning for words
Alphabetizing by fourth letters
Guide words
“Heaping coals of fire”
Fact and opinion
Identifying rhyming lines in poetry
Using homographs correctly
Fiction and nonfiction
Thankfulness
A different title for the story
Rewriting sentences
308
Vocabulary words
Categorizing words
Ways God blesses everyone alike
Working with maps
Important details in a story
God’s care of His creatures
How Indian life was different
Interpreting story sentences
Comparing then and now
Why we should not boast
Describing story characters’ actions
Family, authority, or other relationships
Word associations (analogies)
Making predictions
Ways to show love to a stranger
“Foreign-sounding” English
Probable, improbable, or impossible
Antonyms; synonyms; homophones
More interesting words
Table of contents
A story character’s motives
Only Jesus can heal
304
Vocabulary work; context clues
Using a simple map
Words with prefixes, suffixes, or none
Important or unimportant
Reading poetry correctly
Animals men use for work
Labeling land features on a sketch
Using guide words
An unusual poem
Scanning for information
Making inferences
The more interesting synonym
Working with poetry
A Biblical figure of speech
Fact and opinion
Story setting and order of events
Categories and sequences
The greatness of God
Homographs, homophones; synonyms
Possible or impossible
How a character overcame fear
Table of contents
Antecedents of pronouns
309
Vocabulary words; context clues
Word associations (analogies)
The need for rules and laws
Animals used for working or as pets
Putting a story in its time frame
Possible or impossible
Onomatopoeia; and its pronunciation
Putting story events in order
Matching words to pictures
Homographs; homophones; synonyms; antonyms
Morse code
Making inferences and predictions
Scanning for adjectives
Comparing a story and poem
Ways to help others
The basis for judging a statement
Working with poetry
How a busybody suffers
Summarizing a story lesson
Evil surmising
Figures of speech
Categorizing and sequencing words
The main idea of a poem
305
Making predictions
Scanning for words
Reading orally to show emotion
Important details in a story
Logical suppositions
Causes of given events
Story setting and order
Pararaph main idea
A different title for a story
What idols cannot do
Family relationships of characters
Using homographs correctly
Probable or improbable
Analogous words
Accented syllables
Predicting what will happen
Alphabetizing by third letters
Contrasting God and idols
Fact and opinion
How to prove a fact
Analyzing characters’ feelings
Listening and taking notes
310
Using a globe
Determining relative wealthiness
Poverty in Haiti
Ways to help the poor
Descriptive adjectives
Figures of speech
Making inferences
Working with poetry
Figures of speech in a poem
Soft answers for given situations
Categorizing words and phrases
Palindromes
Applying verses to situations
Wise or unwise actions
Describing a character’s feelings
Comparing two poems
Hard things God can help us do
Synonyms
Scanning for names and phrases
Working with a map
Rewriting sentences
The reason for a character’s action
A true friend
Listening and taking notes

I highly recommend CLE reading!

HTH,

[OhElizabeth]

Margaret, I would definitely prune that list. The WWE3 workbook will not be out, so getting WWE itself would just be a useful reference for you (for YOU). WT1 is fine, and yes it will cover some basic literary elements. I think it's much more important to focus on basic writing skills at this age, so I'd let that be enough. I assume you're doing some read alouds together during the day and discussing things as well. Have him read aloud to you occasionally just to check that he's doing well in that department. So I'd skip the CLE. FLL3 will be fine. Handwriting is important, so I'd continue that. So from your list: WT1, FLL3, and HWT would be a good, thorough LA course. If you get WWE to read for yourself, just pull little ideas from it for occasional writing assignments. Don't overload him.

[MIch elle]

I have not used CLE, but it is something that I am considering using at some point. I thought CLE used mainly short stories. Is there a good place to find out the answer to this, because I agree using a snippet of a book wouldn’t be my preferred method either?

Jan

The CLE yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/christianlightfamilies/)has samples in the photos section and the complete scope & sequence in the files section of the group.

I highly recommend CLE reading!

[TracyR]

Yes . I have not heard of any snipets in reading . I've only seen whole stories and like one other poster said if there is a snipet its rare .
The CLE yahoo group is the best place to get your answers . The ladies there can answer your questions you have and there is a CLE representative there as well . Also the higher the grade they also have literature written by Edgar Allen Poe , William Wadsworth Longfellow , Robert Louis Stevenson , Robert Frost and more .

To the other poster. When I said " simple " I meant alot of families mistake CLE Reading to be "simple" because its written by Mennonite publishers . That it caters to those who are of the Mennonite Faith and that they don't include the same literature in their reading programs that we wouldn't see in the other curriculums that are written by other publishers .
CLE amazingly enough is MUCH different from Rod and Staff , and their reading program includes ALOT more and is alot more involved . Not just giving you snipets of stories , not getting into good literature . That just isn't so with this particular curriculum . Unlike Rod and Staff , I'm comparing CLE to R&S because they are both written from Mennonite publishers is that R&S truely caters to Mennonite families . Most donot go past the 8th grade , therefore R&S for the most part goes to 8th grade . CLE is opposite . Their curriculum goes from PreK-12 th grade with the mind that your child could chose to go to college therefore preparing them for college should they chose to go .

As for Writing Tales 1 , we can't be happier . It is brought a love of writing out for my daughter's that I have been trying with other curriculums for quite some time . Its enjoyable for me to teach because it doesn't talk over my head , its easy to use . Its pretty much open and teach . That part I like for me . I have 4 children , a 10 yr old and 8yr old , a 4 yr old that goes to preschool 3 times a week and she likes to do school when she gets home , and a very on the go toddler that is almost 2 . I don't have time to have to study what I have to teach .
What my girls like about it : They love the stories , there is just the right amount of work in there for them . The program includes hands on games to play to 'cement' those grammar facts they learn in the book . I'm not sure what else they like about it , , they just REALLY like it ! :>) And I've used Calvert writing , Abeka , Bob Jones , and Rod and Staff and none of it has drawn out the love for writing that this program has for some reason . Maybe because its not overwhelming . I don't know . But I do know I'm absolutely thrilled with this program .
I can't comment about WWE yet , nor FLL .