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View Full Version : Math rant and a prayer request!


Michelle in MO
04-11-2008, 07:21 PM
OK, this might be a little long, so please bear with me. BTW, the two topics in the subject line are related! :)

I went to our investment representative to put $$ in our IRA's for 2007--taxes, you know. We talked about changes in our families, and I mentioned that we may be enrolling the girls in school next year, but were undecided about where, exactly. (The reason behind this possibility is that my husband had heart trouble in the fall, and he and I both feel I should go back to school to get my master's degree. He's doing well now--:)--but we also feel we should be wise.)

Anyway, I told him that I get up at 4:15 to 4:30 every morning to listen to the girls' math lessons on DVD's, plus I review the lessons in the book and generally get prepared for the day. His jaw dropped open and he was utterly amazed! Then he proceeded to tell me that his daughters, who attend public school, have virtually NO textbooks! When he has to help them with math or other subjects in the evening for homework, he'll ask them, "Where's your book so I can look at it?" and they'll tell him, "We don't have any textbook." So, he has to get on the internet to help them with their homework. I told him, "Well, if we enroll our girls in school, I'm saving their books."

Now, someone please tell me how on earth our public school system, which in our area averages probably $7500-$8000 per student in income received from the government through taxes, cannot afford textbooks for their students!

:eek:

Let me tell you another story: About 10 years ago, when our daughters were little and in a local private preschool, I was told by the preschool teacher that she had received a phone call from a church member who was also a teacher at one of the local elementary schools. This fellow church member told her, "Don't tell anyone I told you this, but if you come to XYZ Elementary School, there's a whole dumpster full of readers that you can get for free, and they're brand new." Apparently the elementary school teachers decided that they didn't like the brand new readers the district had ordered, so they threw them away and ordered new readers!

:thumbdown:


So---how can THIS school district not afford math textbooks for their students! What we have is a situation where, more and more, students are NOT being required to READ their textbooks and are relying almost completely on the lectures. Thank God they're getting THAT, at least! However, they're not learning how to read a textbook, how to struggle with difficult math or science or more difficult literature!!!!!!!

My oldest took the PSAT in the fall and really did fairly well, although this is only her sophomore year and this wouldn't count towards National Merit anything. But next year---perhaps. We'll have to see how she does. Nevertheless, I'm convinced that one of the reason why she did as well as she did is because, as INEPT as I feel MANY times as a homeschooling mother, she still has to READ the books! We may not use as rigorous of a science program as some do (we use Apologia) or math. We do use Omnibus, which I believe is pretty rigorous---but all this reading of the Larson Geometry text or the Lial's Introductory Algebra Text (yes, they watch the DVD's BUT they read the text too!) and Herodotus, Plutarch's Lives, The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Dante's Inferno, The Canterbury Tales, The Confessions of St. Augustine, Shakespeare---etc.----they have to read and think about what they're reading in order to understand it!

There are many weaknesses in what we do. We need a foreign language (we finished Latin in the fall), my girls need to write more fluently, etc. However, somehow I'm getting the feeling that my weaknesses and lack may still be more than the public school!

:rant:


To be sure, there are still quite a few students who graduate from there who go on to good schools---MIT for the valedictorian of a couple of years ago, for instance. Their "honors" program is really the community college classes that are done at the high school, and it sounds like the history teacher does an excellent job of challenging the kids in American history and Western Civilization. There is an English teacher who----SHOCK!----MAKES the kids read The Scarlet Letter and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and other American literature.

Back to the second part of my subject line: the prayer request. I wish we had better options where we live. We live in a small town of about 15,000 people south of St. Louis. My husband is self-employed, and we can't really move and drag clients around with us, plus he's only about 5-10 years from retirement. We believe it's the right decision for me to look at going back to school, and I already feel stressed enough with homeschooling that I'm not sure if I could add on any graduate-level work on top of what I'm already doing. Plus, our homeschooling group is virtually non-existent, and my girls are sometimes very sad and lonely, not having very many friends. My oldest doesn't have any friends her age, other than another homeschooled friend who lives in St. Louis whom she talks to on the phone occasionally. I'm frustrated by our choices, or lack thereof. There is a very good Catholic high school about 45 minutes north of us; otherwise, the closest classical Christian school is a good 1-1/4 hours' drive away from us. Like I said, our local p.s. may be fine, if I can steer the middle daughter towards the honor classes.

Please, if you think of us and our family, please pray for us, for God to give us wisdom on what we should do. I'm obviously not excited about the local p.s. and I'm very uncertain as to what we should do. Please be praying for us over the next few months as we try to make the best decision for our families.

Perry
04-11-2008, 07:27 PM
I wouldn't assume that the district can't afford textbooks. Several of the popular "Fuzzy math" curricula don't have textbooks by design. And they are very expensive.

Maybe you could email your district and ask what curriculum they use for math. Then you can research it online. There is lots of information at mathematicallycorrect.com or NYCHOLD.com

Jane in NC
04-11-2008, 07:36 PM
In recent weeks I have been helping a young lady from the local public school with her Algebra II. Apparently there is one (yes, one) certified math teacher at the school who spends her days making the rounds of classes taught by non-certified teachers. My young lady friend says that she comes once a week to check up on the class. Young friend has been coming to me when she cannot figure out the book. She has a book, but not a teacher. The person assigned to the class really doesn't know what she is doing.

So much for sending our children to public schools where they will have the benefit of "real" (i.e. certified) teachers.

Secondly, young lady friend tells me that she will take AP Bio in the fall and that will most likely be an independent study which is exactly what my son has been doing this year.

I know there are good and even great public schools out there. They are just not near me!!!

Can your arrange for your girls to do some courses via dual enrollment and some at home via CD or the Internet? This may be another option.

Big hugs,
Jane

Michelle in AL
04-11-2008, 07:38 PM
:grouphug: I know how you feel! I've had to work for my husband quite a bit this yr and I wondered if we'd be able to continue hs'ing, because I can't work and be a good teacher. That issue is resolved for now though.

I also have a dd that has no close friends. She and her younger sister (21 months) apart do share a couple close friends, but they are younger than her, and not all her own. She still chooses to homeschool though.

A couple of thoughts. Is there a good private school close to where you'll go to college? Even if your hours didn't coordinate, you could hang out in the town and study until their school day was complete. But, if it's a long drive that means you all will be getting up very early everyday.

Can your husband get disability insurance? We're self employed and pay $168/month for disability that will pay $10,000/month if he were to be disabled. We got it through our professional association. Not sure if that would apply to you. My husband has heart problems too and still was insurable (not severly though).

I'm sure you've probably thought of all these things though.
My prayers are with you,
Michelle in AL

Michelle in AL
04-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Like Jane said, I would also consider Omnibus online classes, but that won't solve your daughter's loneliness.

I always think though that some kids, even when in school have only one or no close friends.

Michelle in AL

Karin
04-11-2008, 08:51 PM
If you go to school you won't be able to devote as much time to teaching, but I'd also consider something like Omnibus and perhaps dual enrollment. You won't be in classes full time, will you? Perhaps you and your girls could do your studying at the same times. If they do go to ps, you are wise to keep the books. Just a thought. The schools in our town aren't the greatest, either.

Michelle in MO
04-12-2008, 05:53 AM
Thank you Jane, Perry, Michelle in AL, and Karin for responding!

I really do think our school district can afford textbooks for math, for instance, but chooses not to. Maybe some of these curricula can be both expensive and effective, but I guess I'm more of a traditionalist. I think students should both listen to a lecture and be made to read through the material, study it, and understand it. Plus, the textbook is a big help to parents if they have to help their children with homework. I hope I can find this discussion, and I think it was on the general board, but it was a spin-off on this topic of strictly internet learning and comparing it to the Luddites or neo-Luddites (which term I'd better look up before I display my total ignorance). In other words, is it really healthy for our kids to learn only from the internet and other computer-related sources?

As far as a possible disability claim, my husband's health now is actually very good. He's lost weight and is exercising daily, but his health scare in the fall made us both realize that we're in a vulnerable position. When we couple that with the lack of a homeschooling group, enrolling them in a school somewhere seems like a reasonable option, while I go back to school. Even if they're enrolled in school somewhere, I don't think I could handle a full load of classes. So---we're leaning towards enrollment, but we haven't completely discounted continuing homeschooling, either. Yes, I would travel---within a reasonable distance. I had actually really wanted to enroll at least my oldest in the Catholic high school 45 minutes north of us, but then there was the question: what would we do with the other two? And, next year my oldest will be in 11th grade---would any private school accept her at that late date?

Well, I just did a search on the General Boards and couldn't find the discussion that I was thinking of. Perhaps it only took place between me, myself, and I! At any rate, I do really believe that students should be required to read their textbooks and read more difficult books. There should be a little "sweat" involved in learning. Even though I'm not a gifted math teacher, I do make my girls think first about the difficulties they're having before giving them the answer. I try to help them think through the problem and see if they can see what they're doing wrong or not understanding. I feel that if schools go in the direction of the lectures doing all the teaching, they're setting the kids up for eventual failure.

Enough of my soapbox. I know we need to pray as a family and try to discern the right direction and decisions that we should make. If a couple of my girls end up at the local p.s., I'm definitely keeping all their books! :)

Susan in IL
04-12-2008, 08:37 AM
My ds had the no textbook math scenario in 6th grade. It was awful and part of the reason we started hsing. He is NOT an auditory learner and there was nothing for him (or us) to go back to when he had homework. The teachers would send worksheets home and often times, there were mistakes on them so the child could never get the correct answer. They were so totally confused. I finally sent a really nasty note to the teacher who then sent a note home to all students apologizing. I felt sorry for those kids who did not have parents that could help them.

Karin
04-12-2008, 09:21 PM
Jim Trelease in his book about reading aloud to children, cited a study that shows that people retain less when they read something on the internet than when they read it printed in a book. It's been a few years since I had that book, but I thought it was very interesting.

Eliana
04-13-2008, 01:00 AM
Oh, what a hard set of choices! May G-d grant you the insight to find the best path through this for your family.

((Michelle))

FWIW: My mother was either in school or working while she was homeschooling my siblings through middle and high school. She wished she could have managed without doing so, but it worked pretty well over all. She would have liked to have shared more in everything they were doing, but they managed to do a lot together and my siblings both still got a stellar education. ...but I know it wouldn't work for everyone.

Good luck, sweetie!

Michelle in MO
04-13-2008, 06:17 AM
Karin, I agree with Jim Trelease. Was this in The Read-Aloud Handbook? I've always had an "inner resistance" to students relying strictly on printed material that is strictly on the internet. Whatever happened to reading a book? To me, it's critical to be able to actually hold the book in my lap, reading sections over and over again, highlighting certain sections, underlining others, making notes in the margin with a pencil, etc.

To me, it's unconscionable that school districts would try to trend more and more away from textbooks, and to be sure, that's going to be one of the first questions I ask the teachers about. There have been several excellent points brought up in this discussion already against this trend: 1) this puts the visual learner at a great disadvantage---he can't remember what the teacher has lectured about, so he/she goes home and can't do his/her homework very well; 2) Mom and Dad can't help him/her either, because they have no textbook to refer back to; 3) students don't learn how to read and re-read material until they understand it, thus working at it until they make it their "own"; they become reliant strictly upon the teacher. This puts them at a great advantage in college, depending upon where they go to school. They might have as many as 250-1,000 students in a classroom! Yes, I had a couple of classes like that at the University of Minnesota! Thank goodness I had textbooks!

The downward spiral in education continues . . . .

Karin
04-13-2008, 09:39 PM
Karin, I agree with Jim Trelease. Was this in The Read-Aloud Handbook? I've always had an "inner resistance" to students relying strictly on printed material that is strictly on the internet. Whatever happened to reading a book? To me, it's critical to be able to actually hold the book in my lap, reading sections over and over again, highlighting certain sections, underlining others, making notes in the margin with a pencil, etc.
. .

Yes, but I couldn't remember the title. I agree with you on this. When dd was in ps for K-2, I refused to grant permission for her to go on the internet for this reason. Plus I had to sign that I would be responsible for whatever she did on it even though I wasn't there to supervise (she was 6!) My kids still don't use the internet, although someday they'll learn how.

Martha in NM
04-14-2008, 04:03 PM
I have a friend whose children are enrolled in classes through The Potter's School and feel that it added something valuable that had been missing for them.

Wishing you the best whatever decision you make,
Martha