modern language + an ancient one?

[Britomart]

Hi! I think this is my first post to the bilingual board, though I've been lurking for awhile. :)

I have a rising first-grader, and this past year I've been introducing her to Spanish. We've been reading picture books and singing songs and having tea in Spanish ("Quieres un dulce rojo o azul?") and writing short stories in Spanish and that sort of thing. (Btw, please forgive my lack of accent marks, upside down question marks, etc - I don't know the keystrokes for them.)

But next year I'm starting her on "El Espanol Facil", so while it's still going to be fairly easy, friendly stuff, we'll be doing Spanish more formally.

Okay, so coming closer to my question . . . I don't want to start an extra language next year (K to 1st is a big enough jump as it is!), but I'm considering doing Latin also at some point in the not-too-distant future. In my mind, the two languages would be taught a little differently, because I primarily want her to be able to speak and understand (aurally) Spanish, whereas I want her to be able to read and write Latin. Does that make sense? I want her to be able to speak, hear, read and write in both, but since Spanish is still a living language, it's most important to me that she knows it well orally and aurally, whereas Latin is a dead language and it's most important to me that she be able to read and write it.

Is it crazy to try to do two languages at once? I know some people do (and I've read about folks on this board who do - you're inspiring!), but I admit that it does seem a little overwhelming.

Is it hard to do two languages that are as similar as Latin and Spanish, and to keep them straight? Or does the similarity make it easier?

Will the difference in emphasis (spoken vs. written) make it easier to teach two?

Or should I just stick to helping my kids learn Spanish really, really well?


I guess I'm still really in the thinking-about-it stage, and I'd just appreciate any input from folks who have btdt. Thanks!

[lionfamily1999]

It hasn't been a problem for us :D

Ds started with Latin in 2nd. We added in Greek and then I caught him self-teaching French with his sister's workbook, so we threw that in too.

Ester Maria is the person to talk to, she convinced me he'd be alright ;)

[Ester Maria]

(Btw, please forgive my lack of accent marks, upside down question marks, etc - I don't know the keystrokes for them.)
If you're using Windows, go to Control Panel -> Regional and Language Options -> Languages -> Details.

There, you can add another keyboard, and switch keyboards with Alt+Shift. I do it all the time, it spares you a LOT of nerves of inserting special characters and alike, you just need to adjust to some minor differences (because what you enter in another keyboard is not necessarily what's WRITTEN on your keyboard, so it might take a while to adjust, but for Latin-script languages, the differences are minimal, and you can google your new keyboards to see what they're like and which keys are different).

Sorry for the digression, I thought you might find it useful. :)
In my mind, the two languages would be taught a little differently, because I primarily want her to be able to speak and understand (aurally) Spanish, whereas I want her to be able to read and write Latin. Does that make sense? I want her to be able to speak, hear, read and write in both, but since Spanish is still a living language, it's most important to me that she knows it well orally and aurally, whereas Latin is a dead language and it's most important to me that she be able to read and write it.
Actually, I would not suggest you to take this approach to Spanish - I believe that it's somewhat a shame to end up with only a conversational component of the language, if you can be literate. In order to develop a literacy in the second language, you need to read a lot and practice written expression as well. While I fully realize that for practical life and immediate reaction she will need a good grasp of spoken Spanish, I really encourage you to try to develop literacy in Spanish in addition to that, particularly if you speak it yourself well, because then she'll profit the most from being bilingual (and being able to use the language in academic context later too). :) It's not going to overburden her; in fact, you will find that her knowledge of the spoken language and her comfort with the language are greater if she reads regularly as well.

With Latin I agree, a solid reading knowledge is a reasonable goal.
Is it crazy to try to do two languages at once? I know some people do (and I've read about folks on this board who do - you're inspiring!), but I admit that it does seem a little overwhelming.
If in any decent classical school in Europe they study both classical languages (Latin AND Greek) and two to three modern languages at the same time, with at least one of the modern languages being taught at the level of reading the original literary classics in high school period as well, I don't see any reason why your daughter couldn't handle "only" two languages at the same time. :)

In fact, I never quite understood the anglophones' fuss about studying multiple languages at the same time. In most of the non-anglophone world I find it to be a norm rather than an exception. It really is not a big deal and your daughter will be fine.
Is it hard to do two languages that are as similar as Latin and Spanish, and to keep them straight? Or does the similarity make it easier?
No, on the contrary, a decent grounding in Latin can only aid her Spanish. She might mix a word or two sometimes, or say something in language X when studying language Y, but if you don't make it an issue and get upset over it (and thus transfer your uneasiness onto her and get her "blocked"), it won't be an issue in the long run. Take it easy, relax, she'll be fine.
Will the difference in emphasis (spoken vs. written) make it easier to teach two?
No, it won't. Aim for literacy in Spanish as opposed to only conversational component, and make it an equal priority. You can keep Latin passive - which is in fact a good idea - but you don't have to give up on literacy in Spanish for the sake of literacy in Latin; it's not "either A either B" situation.
Or should I just stick to helping my kids learn Spanish really, really well?
And the best way to do it is to include Latin. ;)

[Britomart]

Thank you, first for the Windows help. ¡Muchas gracias! That's just very cool. I had no idea it was so easy.

Thank you also for all of this advice. I think you've helped put my head on straighter.

I do want my children to be able to read and write Spanish as well, but I suppose that since I read Spanish better than I speak it (and sort of wish the opposite were true), I felt like I needed to concentrate on my kids' verbal skills more. I guess I assumed that because the reading came easily to me, it would come easily to them. But now I see that's sort of a silly assumption. :) Also, what you said makes me realize that since I'm the one teaching them, I can work on both at the same time; it's not like they'll be doing the same high school courses I did.

(I spoke Spanish when I was a toddler because we lived in Mexico for awhile, but then I didn't speak it again until I took it in high school. And given the nature of those classes, I ended up reading it better than I could speak it. Now I'm doing my best to improve my verbal Spanish using Pimsileur cds, singing along to Shakira and having conversations whenever I get the chance. I'm working on reading it and writing it too, by reading novels in Spanish and working through a verb workbook in order to remember all the conjugations I've forgotten. I'm hoping by the end of summer to be at a place where I feel comfortable having one meal a day with the kids just in Spanish. I want to make sure I'm speaking properly since they'll be copying me, you know?)

:)
If in any decent classical school in Europe they study both classical languages (Latin AND Greek) and two to three modern languages at the same time, with at least one of the modern languages being taught at the level of reading the original literary classics in high school period as well, I don't see any reason why your daughter couldn't handle "only" two languages at the same time. :)

In fact, I never quite understood the anglophones' fuss about studying multiple languages at the same time. In most of the non-anglophone world I find it to be a norm rather than an exception. It really is not a big deal and your daughter will be fine.

No, on the contrary, a decent grounding in Latin can only aid her Spanish. She might mix a word or two sometimes, or say something in language X when studying language Y, but if you don't make it an issue and get upset over it (and thus transfer your uneasiness onto her and get her "blocked"), it won't be an issue in the long run. Take it easy, relax, she'll be fine.


Thank you for all the reassurance. I actually attended K-3 in Canada, and all of us took French as a matter of course. So when I decided to homeschool, I knew I wanted to include a foreign language, because I've always had that in my mind as an international standard for education. In fact, it was one (of many) reasons I did decide to homeschool. It seemed bizarre to me that my five-year-old could go to school for seven hours at the local public school, and there wouldn't be room in all that time for a bit of foreign language instruction! (Or music, or religion . . .)

But it's hard to step out into unknown territory, and I've lived in the States long enough now that I feel odd having it as a standard for my kids that they will learn one foreign language, let alone two, you know?

:) I am motivated though - and not just for my kids. I want to be fluent in Spanish. I'm amazed at how much I've remembered and how much I've learned just this past year, as I've prepared to teach my daughter. I'm happy that everytime I heard someone speaking it, I understand a little more. I'm not where I want to be yet, but I've been surprised at how quickly I've been able to see progress.

And you're right . . . as I study, I find myself understanding things I hear because what I hear is a word I just read last night. Or I understand something I read because it's a word I ran across in my workbook. Or I understand something I read because it was in the song I just listened to. Reading and writing and listening and speaking really reinforce the learning. You're right; I don't want to deprive my kids of that strength.

Thank you very much for helping me think through this a little more. I guess I need to look at Latin curricula!

[dmmetler]

We started Spanish pretty much from birth, and recently started Song School Latin because my 5 yr old decided she wanted to learn Latin. It hasn't been a problem, and, in fact, it seems to have given her much more of an interest in WHY Spanish and English work as they do.

Like you, we've been doing Spanish informally, although we do have a United Streaming subscription and watch some of the videos on there, and I have the Complete Book of Spanish 1-3. For DD, it's more handwriting practice and learning to spell words than learning vocabulary or syntax at this point, but I don't think she's ready for a higher level curriculum yet.

[Laura Corin]

I'd leave it a while to get Spanish well bedded in before adding in another language. We do a modern language first, followed by Latin (Hobbes also chose to play with Ancient Greek) then another modern language. We don't drop languages - just add more in. We don't start Latin until about age nine - there's still plenty of time to be reading ancient texts in the original language before high school.

FWIW, two foreign languages is normal in good schools in the UK. I'm not saying that the teaching/retention is brilliant, but it's not too outlandish an idea. The school which the boys will be attending from August has ten year olds learning Latin, French and Spanish.

Laura

[londynb05]

I've learned that it is okay to learn two languages at the same time as long as they were not similar to each other to avoid confusion. Some people love's challenges while learning and when bombarded with lots of information they tend to learn fast.

As for me, I'm happy learning the language using L-lingo, it has the basic lessons you need to really kick-start learning fascinating Asian languages. I had fun learning the lessons and they are way better than some premium software that I’ve heard about. :001_smile:

[Nan in Mass]

I second going for literacy in Spanish. I have found that unless your child is able to read books, it is hard for them to aquire more sophisticated vocabulary. My verbal skills are not good in French; I can have a conversation but I can't discuss anything complicated. Because of this, it is difficult for my son to expand his vocabulary past the go-brush-your-teeth stage. Actually, I am delighted that he can even do that much, when I managed to go through four years of high school French without even getting that far (grrrr), but it is so easy to aquire vocabulary reading that it seems like it would be a waste not to do so. The ability to write is more difficult, but the reading is pretty easy, especially if you start early and then keep reading age-appropriate books over the years. The mistake I made was to let that lapse. Now I have a 16yo who is reading at a 6th grade level. That is a problem, because 6th grade books are, for the most part, boring to him.

-Nan

[USDGAL]

I agree, it is possible. All my dc are spoken to in Spanish and English from birth. They are first taught to read English. At the end of First grade they learn to read and write in Spanish. In third grade Latin starts. I have had no problems as of yet. My oldest will begin High school Spanish texts this year (6th) and Wheelocks Latin in 7th. Ds would also like to start ancient Greek, but I have not decided when.

Good luck and have fun on your journey.

Danielle

[Britomart]

Thanks for all the help! I feel like I'm in good company as I begin our attempt to escape monolingualism!