How would you feel

[emzhengjiu]

My daughters play with a group neighborhood children ranging in age from 5 to 12. Most of the kids play appropriately. But two brothers, 10 and 5, are rough. The 10 yo boy has hit my 7 yo daughter several times over the past few months when he gets annoyed with her. I've talked directly with him and twice now with his parents. This last time, his mother lost control. Her view is "children will be children" and her sons should be able to defend themselves. My view is a 10 yo should not hit a 7 yo and I'll go farther and say a older boy shouldn't be hitting a girl. This same boy has hit a 6 yo girl as well. Her mom spoke with the parents but had a similar response. I actually like the parents and even the boys when they act properly. On another note, I don't won't my girls to learn it's acceptable for a boy (man) to hit a girl (woman). When I was growing up in ancient times boys were taught not to hit girls! Am I overreacting or am I way too Old Fashioned? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

[strider]

My daughters play with a group neighborhood children ranging in age from 5 to 12. Most of the kids play appropriately. But two brothers, 10 and 5, are rough. The 10 yo boy has hit my 7 yo daughter several times over the past few months when he gets annoyed with her. I've talked directly with him and twice now with his parents. This last time, his mother lost control. Her view is "children will be children" and her sons should be able to defend themselves. My view is a 10 yo should not hit a 7 yo and I'll go farther and say a older boy shouldn't be hitting a girl. This same boy has hit a 6 yo girl as well. Her mom spoke with the parents but had a similar response. I actually like the parents and even the boys when they act properly. On another note, I don't won't my girls to learn it's acceptable for a boy (man) to hit a girl (woman). When I was growing up in ancient times boys were taught not to hit girls! Am I overreacting or am I way too Old Fashioned? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

I would NEVER EVER put up with a boy hitting a girl. NEVER EVER. I also would NOT tolerate, EVER, an older child hitting a younger child. The fact that it is an older boy hitting a littler girl makes it even worse.

I would view it differently if it was between boys of around the same age. I would still see it as something needing training, but I would not react in the same way.

I am pretty laid-back, generally. I don't mind when boys get covered in mud or when kids climb trees or all kinds of elaborate, messy play. Generally, I think kids can negotiate their own battles. When I intervene, it is usually to coach them to resolution rather than take charge.

BUT in the situation you are describing, I would not hesitate to put on my psycho-mommy mean face and use my psycho-mommy super-authoritative voice and promise this boy that all happiness will be sucked from his existence if he dares ever EVER to lay hand on a little girl or any girl in my vicinity. Period.

[j.griff]

Honestly it depends on the situation. What was your dd doing to this boy that annoyed him to the extent that he hit her? I wonder because of the moms assertion that her ds's have a right to "defend" themselves.
I would NOT make a big deal about the sex thing- a BOY hit my GIRL! It's wrong for people to hit each other. Period. No reason to be sexist about it. I mean, what if you had a younger boy and it was an older girl who was hitting your DS? Would you still be angry about it? I would just keep an eye out, explain that HITTING is not an acceptable way of solving problems. If they can't work it out, let an adult know what the problem is (ie your dd is bugging the boy).

[Jill, OK]

...tell your kids that they are, without exception, to get up and come home when they've been hit.

I'm old-school, too, about boys hitting girls (although I'd discipline my boys or my girls for hitting anyone of either gender). I'm also generally of the 'let kids work it out, themselves' strain...but hitting is a different matter. I wouldn't leave it up to my kids, either, because kids can be so desperate for fun that they decide to take a little abuse. I'd just say, "Our rule is, if someone hits you, pack up yourself (and any siblings with you) and come home".

If the kids really like your kids, they'll modify their behavior after a couple of times of getting left. And if not, well...have you really lost that much? (It might be up to the kids, themselves, if their mom isn't going to step in).


JMO.

[Colleen]

nt

[Karen sn]

I wish I could link you to VirginiaDawn's post where I wrote my experience with boys hitting my dd.
To make a long story short - I would tell the boy that if he hits my dd again I will kick his ass.
Obviously this kid's mom is an IDIOT.
Even if your dd was a pesty brat - a boy should learn to walk away or tell an adult - NEVER should a boy hitting a girl be tolerated.

[Mrs Mungo]

BUT in the situation you are describing, I would not hesitate to put on my psycho-mommy mean face and use my psycho-mommy super-authoritative voice and promise this boy that all happiness will be sucked from his existence if he dares ever EVER to lay hand on a little girl or any girl in my vicinity. Period.

Honestly, this would have been my reaction in the past. However, I have seen a set of parents take a father to court for this *exact* thing, claiming he threatened their son. It made a real division in my mini-homeschooling community when it happened. :(

[Jill, OK]

...when I say 'after a couple times of being left', I mean I'd only let it happen a couple of times, and then I'd probably say, 'That's enough', if they don't get it and change.

10 years old seems big to be doing that sort of thing, especially when you're talking about a much smaller child.

[emzhengjiu]

I agree that hitting is wrong regardless but I don't believe boys should learn to hit girls because in general they grow up to be stronger and can do a lot of damage. In my case, I don't think I'm being sexist but am recognizing a legitimate difference between boys and girls - men and women. According to some of the other children who were playing at the same time, my dd didn't hit him but was acting silly. But even if she hit him, I would expect an older child to be developing some self-control and not hit a younger child back. To answer your question, I would not want an older girl hitting a younger child either, boy or girl. Great idea to have my children leave immediately if hitting starts.

Judy

[strider]

I agree that hitting is wrong regardless but I don't believe boys should learn to hit girls because in general they grow up to be stronger and can do a lot of damage. In my case, I don't think I'm being sexist but am recognizing a legitimate difference between boys and girls - men and women.

To answer your question, I would not want an older girl hitting a younger child either, boy or girl. Great idea to have my children leave immediately if hitting starts.

Judy

Well said-- I agree.

[Jill, OK]

...I would certainly teach my kids that self-control is the best response, if they're hit...but I'd warn them about hitting other people first in the same way that my grandmother warned me; "Expect to get hit back".

What she said specifically was, "Don't hit a man unless you're prepared for a man to hit you back", but I'm modifying it, lol.

I would hope that any boy of mine would take the John Wayne path if he's smacked by a girl...but I'd absolutely tell my girls not to expect John Wayne behavior if they crack a boy. Reaping what you sow and all that.

All that said...I'll repeat; I don't advocate hitting or taking getting hit by either gender.

[Danestress]

I agree that hitting is wrong regardless but I don't believe boys should learn to hit girls because in general they grow up to be stronger and can do a lot of damage. In my case, I don't think I'm being sexist but am recognizing a legitimate difference between boys and girls - men and women. According to some of the other children who were playing at the same time, my dd didn't hit him but was acting silly. But even if she hit him, I would expect an older child to be developing some self-control and not hit a younger child back. To answer your question, I would not want an older girl hitting a younger child either, boy or girl. Great idea to have my children leave immediately if hitting starts.

Judy


I guess I think maybe, then, the older kids need a nice way to tell you younger kids to go away when they are being silly and annoying. I would be MOST upset if my ten year old boy hit a girl. NOT okay. But I also totally sympathize with how annoying a seven year old girl might seem to a boy that age, and I think he should probably figure out a way to tell the other boys his age "okay, let's take off and do a boy things for a while" or otherwise seperate out the younger kids or the boys. A boy this age probably isn't going to ask for adult help with someone being annoying. They like to feel like they can solve their own problems. I think boys may be more reluctant than girls to appeal to adult authority.

Honestly, if my daughter regularly acted in a way that provoked that, I probably would encourage more playing in places where I could directly supervise. I think seven is sort of young to be off playing with 10 and 12 year olds anyway. Maybe you should encourage the girls in her age group to play more together and just reduce the liklihood of her being off playing with them unsupervised.

[emzhengjiu]

Actually my daughters play next to my apartment, literally. The group of children all tend to play together in the same general area. No other child including those who are older than she have had problems with her. And no other child has hit her. Also as I think I mentioned he's hit another girl as well. It's difficult to segregate the kids under these circumstances unless they invite their friends inside. My 7 yo doesn't deliberately play with the older boys.

[Twinmom]

I've got four boys (one not in my siggy, as he's 26!) and we teach them that it is a man's job to protect women and children, even if that man is a mere 6 yr old! They are never, EVER, to hit a female for ANY reason, they are to be chivalrous, etc. As a result, my boys...even the 5 year olds!...open doors for ladies, let them go first, don't hit girls, etc. This doesn't always stop the inter-sibling fights, but it helps. DD sometimes tries to take advantage of our rule for the boys, and I basically tell her what Jill's grandma told her...if you are going to whack your brothers, remember that it won't be long before they are much bigger and stronger than you and you won't like what they dish out!

I mention our rules because I do not think it is acceptable under any circumstance for the 10 year old to be hitting your DD. Obviously, he is not being taught in this way. My boys usually puff up their little chests and start being little men when they are reminded of their "duty" to take care of the girls...maybe a talk from you along these lines will help (I'm assuming here that you've also told DD not to tease/provoke/hit, etc). If it doesn't work, keep your DD away from them and tell them the reason why. If they aren't going to mind their manners and act like gentlemen, DD won't be hanging out with them.

[JFS in IL]

I would sent a MAN over to tell the parents and the boys that "Your boy is not to lay a hand on my daughter!" or words to that affect. They may pay more attention to the dad telling them it is unacceptable. Esp. since he could comment on how he was taught never to hit a girl when he was a boy, or words to that effect. Affect? I get mixed up.

And - get your dd's some martial arts/self-defense training.

[emzhengjiu]

Well, if I had one (a man that is) I would send him over but it's just my girls and me. But now that I think about it my next door neighbor is on great terms with her ex. He's helped me out a couple of times as well with simple car repairs. He's also "old fashioned" about men protecting women and would likely be willing to talk to the boy's dad. Thanks for a great idea!!

[RoughCollie]

If the same thing happened here, my DH would be over there in a flash. No reason for self-defense, he'd say, and he would call the police.

[Joanne]

Actually my daughters play next to my apartment, literally. The group of children all tend to play together in the same general area. No other child including those who are older than she have had problems with her. And no other child has hit her. Also as I think I mentioned he's hit another girl as well. It's difficult to segregate the kids under these circumstances unless they invite their friends inside. My 7 yo doesn't deliberately play with the older boys.

{{hugs}} Don't feel defensive. Both of the neighborhoods I've lived in with kids were age inclusive neighborhoods where all the kids play in groups, from early school age through tween. I get it.

This 10 year old sounds like boy without enough coaching as to where to *appropriately* direct his boy energy. I am not of the "kids will be kids" camp or let them work it out. I remember being left to work things out. We were simply a bunch of under informed, socially immature, impulse driven kids.

What the 10 year old needs is a new plan for when he gets annoyed and a higher standard. Since his parents aren't willing to do that or see the need for it, you'll need to protect your little girl by giving him "one chance" before you separate the kids for safe play.

I wish I had a different answer for you.

[Danestress]

Actually my daughters play next to my apartment, literally. The group of children all tend to play together in the same general area. No other child including those who are older than she have had problems with her. And no other child has hit her. Also as I think I mentioned he's hit another girl as well. It's difficult to segregate the kids under these circumstances unless they invite their friends inside. My 7 yo doesn't deliberately play with the older boys.

Well, I certainly didn't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with your daughter if she did deliberately play with boys. I really like my church and my homeschool group *because* kids play in a mix of ages and genders.

Anyway, I agree that this boy should not be hitting and if it's a pattern, I would certainly be alarmed. But I doubt you can convince the parents of that - some parents just are always going to feel defensive about their children and believe their actions, no matter how bad, are somehow justifiable. I think in the end if the parents won't control their son, all you can really do is keep your daughter away from him or keep yourself in the midst of the group of kids. Which really really stinks, but I am not sure what else you can do. I really hate conflict and wouldn't want to escalate this between neighbors unless I thought that some good would come of it. Which I just doubt.

[j.griff]

I agree that hitting is wrong regardless but I don't believe boys should learn to hit girls because in general they grow up to be stronger and can do a lot of damage. In my case, I don't think I'm being sexist but am recognizing a legitimate difference between boys and girls - men and women. According to some of the other children who were playing at the same time, my dd didn't hit him but was acting silly. But even if she hit him, I would expect an older child to be developing some self-control and not hit a younger child back. To answer your question, I would not want an older girl hitting a younger child either, boy or girl. Great idea to have my children leave immediately if hitting starts.

Judy

IMO, there's a huge leap from a boy hitting a girl to a man beating his wife. And, IMO- IF a woman takes a swipe at a man, she needs to be prepared for him to react in defense or anger.

You are expecting this older child to be "developing" some self-control- KEY syllable is ING. He obvioiusly hasn't mastered such self control yet.

Since there seems to be a small "pattern" of this one child hitting others, I would have a talk with him- "If you hit my child again, you will NOT be allowed to play with my dc." I've actually had to do something similar before, and it wasn't fun but it stopped the problem behavior of the other child.