A petition for Germany - needs 50,000 sigs

[Joan in Geneva]

Hi Everyone,

This is a complicated petition site on the German parliament website.

You have to actually register - but it is on the German parliament site, not a private site. This petition is by a serious German homeschooler.

Here is the site which explains how to do it with German and English...there are some funny socialization articles too - esp part 1 & 3...

It does not tell you the petition number which is 11617 which you have to find after you finally are given access.

I don't know if this will happen to you, but for me, at first it said that it did not recognize my password, and then I had to click on something with passwort or something like that and then they sent me a link in my email account and actually gave me a new user name "Nutzer....". Maybe it is actually their way of checking that it is a real new person.

Here is Matthias's explanation (http://educatinggermany.7doves.com/2010/05/05/epetitionen) of how to get registered so you can sign. There is a link on this page for the "Deutscher Bundestag". They need the sigs by 16th June. Feel free to take this and send it around.

I found it fairly tricky and would be happy to help anyone who is having trouble....

Thank you for the German homeschoolers,
Joan

[asta]

Not to be a wet rag, but...

Germany is a Republic. Each state within it makes their own laws regarding the education of children, and it varies from state to state. While it is true that home schooling is not legal in any state within Germany, the link you provided "to the German government" is, quite frankly, ludicrous. It would be like a Croatian writing a petition to the United States Federal Government for Maryland to have the same requirements as Texas.

While I understand that the homeschooling community in the United States and other "right to home educate" states and nations is very passionate about wanting everyone to have the same rights they do, online petitions signed by foreign nationals is not the way to go about it (IMO).

Nations have specific reasons for operating in the manner in which they do, whether other nations agree with them or not. As hard as it may be to do so, it is necessary to step out of one's own shoes and into the shoes of the other nation/culture to see if what is being proposed is still "such a great idea" for the overall longterm goals of that nation.

What tends to be forgotten amidst the fracas of HSLDLA bringing a family to the US and other such stories is that Germany is a socialist state. Social Democracies depend on a certain level of indoctrination. I don't mean that with an "evil" connotation. All socialist systems do, or they will fail. And it is extremely hard to keep a baseline of social indoctrination without compulsory schooling. Germany offers many schooling options, which most people do not realize (different types of public, private and parochial), but it is not in the home. They also offer the right to emigrate.

HTH


asta


ETA - I just realized it was you, Joan, who wrote this post. I don't mean to sound patronizing. I just had a bad day with the "it's legal to HS in Germany as long as you hide" crowd.

[Joan in Geneva]

ETA - I just realized it was you, Joan, who wrote this post. I don't mean to sound patronizing. I just had a bad day with the "it's legal to HS in Germany as long as you hide" crowd.

Asta, what does that mean? the crowd is in the US or in Germany? (I could take that as there not being any point since they can do it or at least we can do it if we hide)...

I guess you understand that I do take their policies personally as we are being affected in Switzerland by the mentality and my children are Swiss citizens...

But isn't France more socialist than Germany and they allow homeschooling? (I was under that impression but could be wrong.. Maybe I just hear more French news than German).

Joan

[asta]

Asta, what does that mean? the crowd is in the US or in Germany? (I could take that as there not being any point since they can do it or at least we can do it if we hide)...

I read homeschooling group websites catering to ex-pats, and people considering work in Germany. It just ticks me off. It would be like me coming to a Swiss canton and whispering out the side of my mouth "oh, of course you can buy property here w/o citizenship or a full visa..." No, you can't. It's against the law (unless things have changed recently).

I guess you understand that I do take their policies personally as we are being affected in Switzerland by the mentality and my children are Swiss citizens...

I can respect that. But I also see that Switzerland has a very different history than does Germany. And a very different present.

But isn't France more socialist than Germany and they allow homeschooling? (I was under that impression but could be wrong.. Maybe I just hear more French news than German).

Joan

Again, different past. I think Germany is trying very hard to keep a rein on their society so that it doesn't fall too far either right or left. Even having a socialist system, they keep a pretty evenly keeled political spectrum overall. Their biggest challenge right now is their economic system, as they have an aging population and almost a negative growth rate for non-immigrants. This wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the fact that their medical system was only built to "work" up to the point of palliative care. At that point, the "social safety net" of the churches take over for members of their congregations. Well, the largest immigrant influx is Muslim, and their mosques have not set up such a system.

Germany is very afraid of going the way of Greece. The unions have a stranglehold (30 hour work weeks, 4 weeks vacation, etc.), and the currency is devaluing. If they cannot, at the very least, keep the children from splintering off into factions (as has happened in the banlieus of Paris - where the rioting and burning of cars has occurred), they will be lost. Keeping a firm hold on the school system is the manner in which they have chosen to do this.

Whether I or anyone else sees this as right or wrong, it beats the alternative of what happened the last time Germany had a bunch of people who felt demoralized and had a devalued currency.

Eh, I better stop yammering.

Stay neutral. It's a better place.


a


ps: France is a whole other discussion

[Joan in Geneva]

Asta, I find your "yammering" interesting. It doesn't bother me.


But I also see that Switzerland has a very different history than does Germany. And a very different present.

Yes, but they are supposed to be working towards a common future, n'est-ce pas? ...where all Europeans have the freedom to circulate, live and work in different countries? Why do foreigners have to become German in Germany but Germans don't have to become English in England?

About the banlieus...I've heard some stories about schools in Germany becoming somewhat similar in low standards and conditions to those in France (though not as bad)...but I don't think that has anything to do with homeschooling or not (I mean that they are not as bad yet)....and all those immigrants in France are certainly not homeschooling. Don't they have a different relationship with the "natives" than the ones in Germany?

I just don't think that the iron fist of fear (where the whole society is put under lock and key) is the best response to terrorism. It might well squash out the people who have a better answer. Then where will Germany be?

Switzerland is not quite neutral after being pushed around by "you know who" due to someone being arrested due to domestic violence of a servant...they outlawed minarets.

I am asking some German connections about the vote by outsiders - and the impact...sometimes foreign interest can bring something to someone's attention that might get lost otherwise...

Joan

[Immanuel Wolf]

Hallo,

I am from the German organization "Bundesverband Natürlich Lernen! e.V. BVNL" an nationwide assoziation for natural learning. (www.bvnl.de) We have some Members who practice Unschooling in Germany.

The Petition is not for the Government. Its for the Parliament ("Bundestag", i think, its an little different.

Its correct, laws to education are in Germany the decision from the federal states.

But we need at first the attention from society of Germany. Much people don't know that thinks like "Homeschooling" are possible. They just haven't thought about it.

The Petition is helpful to get that attention.

All people can sign the Petition. How old they are, in witch country they live, or born is anyway. And.... its need just 5 minutes ;-)

[Joan in Geneva]

Thank you for the correction Immanuel. There is so much I don't know about Germany yet.

But I do hope that more people will sign the petition....

All the best,
Joan