Teenager with social skills problems??

[Wendi]

My 13 year old dear son is a quirky kid. His official diagnoses are OCD, language disorder (mostly expressive but some receptive as well), sensory integration dysfunction, and probably ADHD. Whew! He's also "inflexible-explosive". He's extremely bright and creative, too.

One of the big challenges right now (among several) is that he just doesn't read people and social settings well. He behaves immaturely, takes normal joking around too far, doesn't know when to settle down. This is worse in a situation that's more loose and informal.

For example, he's in a homeschool drama program. He has trouble with being inattentive, silly, too rough or rambunctious, etc. The teacher is concerned because of the disruptions and also because she sees some of the other kids have basically "given up" on him. They're not mean, but definitely not interested in being friends with him, and probably avoid him. He does have one very good friend there (they get together outside class as well), and a few other kids who he seems to get along well with, they like him, etc.

The problem is that it's a drama class. Everyone's not sitting at a desk listening to a teacher. They're up and active, and not everyone is onstage at the same time. So the ones who are not onstage are talking, goofing around a bit, etc. The problem is that everyone else reads the social cues, pays attention, and figures out how much goofing around is okay, when it's important to quiet down, how to pay attention and know when you need to be onstage, etc. Noah doesn't figure these things out.

So when I tell him he's goofing around too much, for example, he says, "Everyone goofs around. The teachers don't mind!" He doesn't see that HIS goofing around is excessive, too loud, too frequent, etc.

He does this in small group situations with his friends, too, sometimes. Just kind of crosses the line into too immature, silly, annoying, etc. Everyone else is joking around, so he doesn't realize the difference in his behavior. He does have some good friends who occasionally tell him to "chill" or comment when he's being too immature. Self-control is a problem for him, too.

Is there a book that will help me explain these kinds of things to him? And how do we "work on" self-control?

Wendi

[Laurie4b]

Social skills training is hard for a mom of a teenaged son to do. Having mom tell him x,y, z can be easily discounted.

A couple things that pop to mind:

Have the teacher talk with him about sometimes he goes a little too far with the goofing around. It will be important not to shame him, but for her to be matter of fact about it. Having a prearranged signal from the teacher might help. If she pulls on her ear, for instance, that is a signal to him that he's going too far with goofing around, being too loud, etc. It's a nonverbal cue to "chill."

I'm wondering (this is totally thinking out loud) if you could set him the goal of always making sure that there is always someone else being louder and that he is not the last to quit. It might be that you need to break it down into observation: who was the loudest today? Who was the next loudest? Who was the last to quit goofing around? Who was the first to quit goofing around? etc. Could you videotape a practice? Then he could see himself on tape and see others' reactions. After he sees the range and who is doing what, perhaps then he could cue into a specific goal of keeping his behavior within the outer boundaries set by another (kinda "out there") kid, or he could cue off another kid in the group who seems to hit the social cues flawlessly: When Jonathan quits goofing, you quit, too.

[Greta Lea]

It all worked. Now, my son has a HUGE desire to be social (got a good dose of my personality) and this desire makes him actually take social direction from almost anyone very well. His friends have always been helpful too, but it's also because he's very receptive to them saying, "Hey, chill dude. You're too hyper right now."

When he was your son's age and younger, he responded VERY well when the person in charge and even sometimes when friends would very quietly say, "Settle" and move their hand in a downward soothing kinda movement.

[MomofC&A]

I have an older son who has some of those traits but not the ADHD. I have heard of groups of older teens for social skills issues. I know the local autism society has referrals for that sort of thing even though the teen may not have autism. They just seem to be the ones who are more informed on that sort of issue. We have not tried the groups yet but I know they are out there if we need them. We are just trying to get a more accurate diagnosis at this time and we'll proceed from there. Good luck!

[Wendi]

Social skills training is hard for a mom of a teenaged son to do. Having mom tell him x,y, z can be easily discounted.

A couple things that pop to mind:

Have the teacher talk with him about sometimes he goes a little too far with the goofing around. It will be important not to shame him, but for her to be matter of fact about it. Having a prearranged signal from the teacher might help. If she pulls on her ear, for instance, that is a signal to him that he's going too far with goofing around, being too loud, etc. It's a nonverbal cue to "chill."

I'm wondering (this is totally thinking out loud) if you could set him the goal of always making sure that there is always someone else being louder and that he is not the last to quit. It might be that you need to break it down into observation: who was the loudest today? Who was the next loudest? Who was the last to quit goofing around? Who was the first to quit goofing around? etc. Could you videotape a practice? Then he could see himself on tape and see others' reactions. After he sees the range and who is doing what, perhaps then he could cue into a specific goal of keeping his behavior within the outer boundaries set by another (kinda "out there") kid, or he could cue off another kid in the group who seems to hit the social cues flawlessly: When Jonathan quits goofing, you quit, too.

Yes, part of the problem is that it's ME telling him. Maybe giving him a more specific instruction would help. His good friend there has very good social skills. I will tell ds, "Watch Sean and model yourself after him. If he's quiet, you be quiet." And maybe your idea about having him try to notice other kids' behavior more, and compare himself to them, will help. I'm not positive he can be accurate, but it might get him a bit more aware of what other people are doing.

He's actually going to have to skip a semester of drama, at the suggestion of the directors. But he is in other similar situations. Sometimes I wish there was a DVD curriculum, where we could watch kids interacting, and pause to discuss their behavior. Ds is just terrible at monitoring himself, or reading the situation. It's very frustrating for me, as I've been talking to him about these things for a long time.

Also, he used to go to a counselor, and I'm thinking it's time to go back. She may have some more suggestions, too.

Wendi

[Misty]

You just described Asperger's Syndrome.. Is there a reason why he does not have this diagnosis?

[Misty]

BTW, one of my Aspie daughters is exactly like your son.. She will be 13 this year.. Extremely bright and creative.. She is diagnosed with OCD, ADHD (inattentive, non-hyper), sensory processing disorder, and "Asperger traits".. She is extremely impulsive, loud, with excessive goofing off.. She has no clue that she is too loud and talks too much. She is EXTREMELY creative and also a voracious reader.

I bet they would hit it off!!:lol:

[Wendi]

BTW, one of my Aspie daughters is exactly like your son.. She will be 13 this year.. Extremely bright and creative.. She is diagnosed with OCD, ADHD (inattentive, non-hyper), sensory processing disorder, and "Asperger traits".. She is extremely impulsive, loud, with excessive goofing off.. She has no clue that she is too loud and talks too much. She is EXTREMELY creative and also a voracious reader.

I bet they would hit it off!!:lol:

When he was tested, the neuropsychologist said he definitely doesn't have Asperger syndrome. But we do see Aspie traits in him; I guess he just doesn't qualify for the diagnosis. He is obsessive, goes on and on about his interest and has a hard time socializing with anyone who doesn't share his interest (currently, it's anime/manga/anything Japanese). Hence, the girls at church "hate him", but he has friends at co-op who also love anime/manga/anything Japanese.

Socially it's just hard. It's little things, too. Like when I am trying to order a latte or pay for a purchase, he will be next to me, yammering on about some anime thing or some funny video on youtube. I will have to tell him, hey, does this look like a good time to chat with me? I'm busy! He does this kind of thing A LOT.

He's hyper and impulsive. He doesn't pick up on cues that he's boring someone, or being too loud, or annoying them. Then when you get aggravated at him, he overreacts.

The problem is, there's also manipulation and rebelliousness to deal with. How to figure out what's "special needs" and what's "disobedience/sin" is soo hard!

Is your child inflexible-explosive? Does she have meltdowns? Ds was doing so much better in that area for awhile, but now is worse. I suspect hormones!

Wendi

[Misty]

when I am trying to order a latte or pay for a purchase, he will be next to me, yammering on about some anime thing or some funny video on youtube. I will have to tell him, hey, does this look like a good time to chat with me? I'm busy! He does this kind of thing A LOT.

He's hyper and impulsive. He doesn't pick up on cues that he's boring someone, or being too loud, or annoying them. Then when you get aggravated at him, he overreacts.

Is your child inflexible-explosive? Does she have meltdowns? Ds was doing so much better in that area for awhile, but now is worse. I suspect hormones!

YES! This is exactly my daughter. She is extremely inflexible.. She will even refuse to eat her sandwich if I buy the wrong brand of bread.. She is extremely rigid and her emotions are BIG.. She is very impulsive.. constantly doing strange, off-the-wall things (loudly) to get a laugh and she does everything without thinking first. She talks way too much about her current topic of interest (YouTube videos or a favorite website or book series).. My favorite is when I'm trying to cook 5 things at once and she comes up and starts rambling on about some pet that she has on some website or some YouTube video and I have absolutely no idea what she's saying and I'm trying to read a recipe and stir something and flip something and she's rambling on and on.. I just want to explode!! It's like "Hello??.. how about a little help instead of obsessing over virtual pets 24/7!!!"

Anyway, she doesn't have an Asperger's diagnosis either, but she has so many traits of it and many of the co-morbids (OCD, ADD, dysgraphia, motor tics, hyperlexia, etc) and she even has synesthesia.. The psychologist thought she did okay socially and didn't "walk funny" (his words) so he didn't think she had enough for a full Asperger's diagnosis (which may be true).. But her two sisters are diagnosed with Asperger's and she acts more Aspie than them sometimes (she even still flaps her hands!)..

Anyway, yes, very similar kids...:)

[8FillTheHeart]

Our 18 yos was misdiagnosed for yrs. I call him my alphabet soup child......ADHD, OCD, ODD, high anxiety, bipolar.....those were just a few of his labels over the yrs. The only one that is accurate is the one we didn't receive until he was almost 17, Aspergers. His pediatrician and I had both felt that was the correct diagnosis back at age 12. We just couldn't get any therapists to agree. I finally insisted on full battery testing (I never knew it could be so hard to get something beyond superficial surveys done!!) and that is what finally he was diagnosed as. It is so funny b/c when they brought us in to discuss the results they acted like they were preparing us for bad news and I burst out laughing b/c I had already known it for over 5 yrs!

My ds was exactly what you describe at 13 even down to the manga fascination. Unfortunately, the yrs from there to now were very unpleasant b/c our ds became violent during adolescence. Now that his hormones aren't swinging, he isn't raging any more and he is returning to his old silly, tender-hearted behaviors. But, what was silly and tenderhearted at 11 or 12 is inappropriate at 18.

We finally had an appt this week with a counselor that we have been on the waiting list to see for over 9 mos. He was recommended to us by the parents in the "Parents of adult autisitics" support group. I am SOOOOOO glad that we listened and waited and waited and waited. He is just that good. For the first time in several yrs I am really hopeful that we have someone that is going to help our ds develop the skills he needs.

All that to say......contact the local autism society and get therapist recommendations for the specific needs you want addressed.

[Laurie4b]

Sometimes I wish there was a DVD curriculum, where we could watch kids interacting, and pause to discuss their behavior.


That sounds like a great idea--maybe you could create one!

[Misty]

That sounds like a great idea--maybe you could create one!

What about Model Me Kids videos? http://www.modelmekids.com/

[Laurie4b]

Wow, Wendi! Those look really good. I might get a set for our church. Have you tried them?

[Misty]

I assume you meant me (Misty, not Wendi.. LOL) .. No, I haven't tried them, but I'm dying to!! I've heard good things.

[Laurie4b]

oops. Yes, I meant you! Of course since I can't get my own kids' names straight, it's no wonder I mess up on a message board.

[Momto2Ns]

What about Model Me Kids videos? http://www.modelmekids.com/

Those look cool Misty! I've never seen them before. Maybe we can all buy one and pass them around :D

[Wendi]

Those look cool Misty! I've never seen them before. Maybe we can all buy one and pass them around :D

I ordered the Conversation Cues one. I'll let you know how we like it. I didn't order the teacher's guide and workbook, because they were more expensive than the DVD! And I figured they would be more helpful in a group setting.

My ds loves to do improv in drama class, so we will hopefully do some role playing along with the video.

Wendi

[Laurie4b]

Oh please post as soon as you've seen the DVD. I saw the price of the tm, etc. too was more. I wondered if the dvd is just "scenes." I guess adults watching could figure out what was being taught, but wondered about that aspect!

[heart'sjoy]

We've been using conversation cues for about 6 mos now with 8 yr old who wasn't picking up social skills since he was a toddler.

The videos are short scenarios of teens/preteens modeling the wrong way to interact socially, discussing what they did that was didn't work, then modeling the correct behavior.

ex: cue: bored

three kids talking, one doing too much and not catching the nonverbal rollingeyes, looking away. Then the cue is discussed and what to watch for. Then they replay the scenario with the correct behavior.

Watching a video 3-4 times hasn't miraculously changed my ds behavior. I didn't expect it to. We have however picked two of the cues to work on.
Bored cue was one. I remind ds before entering group situations: remember cues. We're gaining ground gradually. The best part is ds is taking ownership of his need to learn about social cues. He'll say, " I used cues, I could tell I needed to wait to talk."

[Wendi]

We've been using conversation cues for about 6 mos now with 8 yr old who wasn't picking up social skills since he was a toddler.


I just received the DVD in the mail, and watched a bit this morning. I think it will be helpful to have specifics to discuss with my ds, as well as pointing out how kids look to others. (That seems to be the main issue with my ds; he has no idea how his behavior affects others, or the judgments they make about him based on his behavior.)

I am wondering if the TM and workbook would really help. Obviously, we can watch the DVD and talk about the scenarios, and I can remind him when he's going into a social situation to watch the cues. But I wonder...the TM and workbook are a little pricey. Do you wish you'd bought them? Or with one-on-one instruction are they not necessary?

Wendi

[heart'sjoy]

I'm not sure I really looked at the teacher's manual or workbook. The DVD's just seemed the right amount for ds/8.

I am looking at buying some workbooks in social skills training from social thinking. http://www.socialthinking.com/featured-products/featured-products/129-superflex-a-superhero-social-thinking-curriculum-package.html?flypage=flypage.tpl

There's a lot of material on the above sight, but what I'm looking at right now are the three comic books: You are a Social Detective, Superflex Takes on Rock Brain and the Team of Unthinkables, and Superflex Takes on Glassman and the Team of Unthinkables (http://socialthinking.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=208&category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=102).

The socialthinking.com was a previous suggestion when I did a search on asperger's and ASD. Thanks to all who take the time to share resources.

[Lisaroe]

Hi- I too have a child that has too many labels and the behaviors that go along with them. But I can honestly tell you that now that he is 17- I really enjoy being around him. Though he still misses social cues. (Thank-God he has a really nice boss- who works with him on appropriate behaviors in the work place.)
We tried the Asperger's support group here but found that he really didn't fit in- I think he was too hyper and talkative at time that we tried. He has calmed down a lot since he started High School Courses and has a plan as too what he wants to be when he grows up. :) He is very creative and smart too.
However, some of the Groups refered written resources were very helpful. Tough Kid by Susan Sheridan and Social Skills Training by Jed Baker are very good.
Something my friends remind me of routinely is:
Would you rather have your child have a lot of superficial aquaintance friends or a few really good friends that will stick by your child even letting him know when he is out of line.
I hope this helps-Lisa

[4PeasInMyPod]

When he was tested, the neuropsychologist said he definitely doesn't have Asperger syndrome. But we do see Aspie traits in him; I guess he just doesn't qualify for the diagnosis. He is obsessive, goes on and on about his interest and has a hard time socializing with anyone who doesn't share his interest (currently, it's anime/manga/anything Japanese). Hence, the girls at church "hate him", but he has friends at co-op who also love anime/manga/anything Japanese.

Socially it's just hard. It's little things, too. Like when I am trying to order a latte or pay for a purchase, he will be next to me, yammering on about some anime thing or some funny video on youtube. I will have to tell him, hey, does this look like a good time to chat with me? I'm busy! He does this kind of thing A LOT.

He's hyper and impulsive. He doesn't pick up on cues that he's boring someone, or being too loud, or annoying them. Then when you get aggravated at him, he overreacts.

The problem is, there's also manipulation and rebelliousness to deal with. How to figure out what's "special needs" and what's "disobedience/sin" is soo hard!

Is your child inflexible-explosive? Does she have meltdowns? Ds was doing so much better in that area for awhile, but now is worse. I suspect hormones!

Wendi

I could have written these exact words about my 13 yr old son who is an aspie. If you can, try to get an second opinion.

[Wendi]

Well, I'm glad this post popped up again, as it reminded me to update y'all.

My ds was diagnosed with Asperger's a couple of weeks ago. I have signed him up for a social skills group at the center where we got the diagnosis. He's also going to be seeing a counselor on a regular basis.

We're still trying to work out medication which may help with his anxiety and difficult focusing on his work.

I just got this book (http://www.socialthinking.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=185&category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=102), and it looks good, except for some of the stuff about boy/girl relationships. But I think it will be helpful.

Wendi