I need immediate outlining help!

[4pillars]

I just started my 11yo daughter and 12yo son with outlining the Kingfisher. My 12yo is doing ok with it. HOwever, my 11yo is in tears saying she can't do it. She is begging me just to write a summary of what she has learned in her own words... Would this be ok?? We are using SOTW alongside Kingfisher and adding in out own literature.

GIVE ME PERMISSION TO DROP OUTLINING hhhhheeeeelllllppppp

[Beth in Central TX]

I have recently changed my philosophy on outlining. I have my boys outline their ideas as they organize their own compositions, but they don't outline someone else's thoughts in a textbook anymore. Instead, they take notes from their history and science books. Here's a website to help: http://www.nwlg.org/pages/resources/knowitall/studyskills/notes4.htm

This change in perspective has worked very well for our homeschool.

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

What about letting your 11 yr old do a written summary and then learn to outline *that*, instead of outlining KF for now?

[Beth in SW WA]

We dropped KF outlining. It was busy-work for us. Time is too precious.
My current plan: Read, discuss, repeat :)

[4pillars]

Thanks for the ideas guys... I really think we will keep doing what we have been doing, which is read, read some more, research, investigate and then write a summary on what we have learned.

They are both in there still plugging away, trying to outline! My 11daughter is very stubborn and even though she says she can't do it... she will not step away from the table until she can do it. Can you say perfectionist???

I am soooooooo thankful for all of you guys... I have learned tons from everyone and cannot imagine homeschooling without my WTM forum friends.;):grouphug:

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks for the ideas guys... I really think we will keep doing what we have been doing, which is read, read some more, research, investigate and then write a summary on what we have learned.

They are both in there still plugging away, trying to outline! My 11daughter is very stubborn and even though she says she can't do it... she will not step away from the table until she can do it. Can you say perfectionist???

I am soooooooo thankful for all of you guys... I have learned tons from everyone and cannot imagine homeschooling without my WTM forum friends.;):grouphug:

One more idea here.....I have seen it discussed here many times that KF is rather difficult to outline - something about packing more than one main idea into a paragraph, which makes it difficult for the child to pick out the main idea. Maybe that's why your dd is having a tough time?

What I've seen some people here suggest is to outline SOTW or a section of a supplementary non-fiction history book instead. Still use KF as a spine (or additional reading with SOTW as a spine), but outline another book that supplements it. That way, the kids can get used to being able to pick out ONE main idea from a paragraph (look for this in books you choose) - then they are learning to analyze someone else's writing, so they can learn how paragraphs are put together for when they do their own longer writing later on.

hth

[Lenora in MD]

I use sotw for beginning outlining for my 11 yo and it works much better than kingfisher. The reading level is light for her, but it is just right for outlining.

[katilac]

My dd is finding the SOTW 4 outlining examples to be very helpful - - it starts off by giving an example outline of a chapter, then it gives the main points and the student fills in the sub-topics, and the student is gradually guided toward doing it independently.

I will say that I have always found outlining an encyclopedia, especially a youth encyclopedia, to be a rather bad choice to start with - - it is so close to outline form to begin with that I think many students find it difficult to see what they are supposed to do. The difference between an outline and a story or topic told in narrative form is much easier to explain.

You might also try teaching it the opposite way around (creating an outline to write from). Even though that's supposed to be the more difficult task, it makes the purpose of an outline much clearer to many students.

[Ravin]

The point of an outline is to use as a tool for either summarizing the main points in something, as in a form of note-taking, or else to organize one's thoughts before writing a composition.

Personally I've always detested formal outlining. I'll write a very rough outline when writing a paper at the college level; in high school when required to do an outline I'd usually write my paper first then make the outline from the paper.

For note-taking or summarizing information, I prefer to map my notes. I don't remember now where I learned this tool, but it just works better for me to put my main idea in the middle of the page, with secondary points offshooting from it.

Couldn't figure out how to insert the pic, so here's the link to where I put it on my blog: http://lifewithluthien.blogspot.com/

Sorry it's upside down. First attempt at using the scanner, etc.

[mcconnellboys]

I would not try outlining from Kingfisher. The text is just too compressed already to make it amenable to outlining, especially for beginners. I would choose some text - maybe SOTW, if you have it - that is written in a paragraph format and outline from that. Not even entire chapters, just smaller sections. And I'd start off with a single topic sentence per paragraph before moving into breaking it down into sub-topics.

The Remedia Press outlining books that SWB has recommended in the last year or so are also helpful to teach outlining.

Regena

[susie in tx]

I agree with the others that outlining KF can be tough. However, I think that there is great utility in learning how to outline. My 12 yo has had great difficulty in learning just which information to put in an outline. Likewise, she was having difficulty eliminating extraneous information. We've use the Remedia Publications outline book for further instruction with outlining and I think it's a tremendous resource.

[ArwenA]

I have recently changed my philosophy on outlining. I have my boys outline their ideas as they organize their own compositions, but they don't outline someone else's thoughts in a textbook anymore. Instead, they take notes from their history and science books. Here's a website to help: http://www.nwlg.org/pages/resources/knowitall/studyskills/notes4.htm

This change in perspective has worked very well for our homeschool.

This is what we do too. We read KF because we like it, but not for outlining. We like to express our own ideas.:)