6th grade in the fall, abilities all over the place

[Dulcimeramy]

Please tell me if this is all going to be OK. :001_huh:

Jonas is going to turn 12 in June. He's had some struggles in the past year or two, so I decided to just start over with different curriculum in an attempt to reach him academically.

I landed on this:

Elson Reader, book 5
Horizons math, grade 4
Sonlight science 4
Sonlight Core 7 (he'd done cores 1 through 6)
Write Shop (with his older brother; this is going very well)

Well, it worked. He's challenged, happy, learning, and succeeding, instead of being frustrated and confused. His language arts skills are well above average, but in math and science he is a year and a half behind grade level.

Will this be OK? I know the homeschool mantra is to let them go at their own pace, but his big brother's "own pace" is three to five grades ahead. Being a year or two behind is new for us.

Looking back, I realize that Jonas has been a year or two behind since he was little, in everything but reading and writing. I figured he'd catch up, but he has kept at the same pace. It feels like an issue now because he's supposed to be finishing elementary work and moving on.

[scrapbookbuzz]

One of the biggest challenges for us moms, I believe, is in comparisons. We compare ourselves to other moms, our families to other families, our kids to other kids (even our own!). This path will only lead to frustration. If the changes you have made have helped your child to be more successful, and happier, academically, then those are changes that needed to be made. Just because older brother is ahead does not mean that the younger sibling needs to be, or even can be, keeping up with that pace. This is where the flexibility of homeschooling comes in.

Don't feel you need to 'keep advancing' him just because traditional grade guidelines deem it so. Those 'metric/guidelines' are for kids who, most of them, don't have any special needs. You and I have a child (or children) that requires some extra time. And, honestly, with such a wide variety of ages of people in college now, he most likely will 'fit in' when he gets there. Right now, focus on what YOU, as his mom, know what he needs. And always remember, you're not alone!

HTH!

[Laurie4b]

Do you know why Jonas is a year and a half behind? That seems very important to me. If there is a particular disability and you know what it is, you can be working to remediate it. In most cases, disabilities can be remediated with specifically applied strategies. Have you had an evaluation done?

Which *strategies* you use is a different issue entirely from what grade level your child is working on. The strategies (not curricula) you use should be helping them close the gap with their peers, and for most disabilities there are strategies that have research-support that they will do that. I think it is wise to advance your child step-by-step, *while* keeping an eye on which step their peers are on.

There are children who just need to "go at their own pace;" however, as someone who has spent a number of years remediating other people's kids and a couple of my own with special needs, I don't believe that that should be the default. I believe the default should be a plan to have them caught up to their peers by x date (hopefully by high school) . Only if an evaluation and a parent's sense of things showed this couldn't be done would I be comfortable recommending that.

I have one ds who had mild dyslexia. The reading part is remediated. The written language probably as close as he's going to get. He's in high school and really doesn't require accomodations on standardized testing, though his dyslexia still shows in his spelling. Other ds has multiple disabilities as well as some areas of giftedness. In my mind's eye, there is a curve where I'm working to have him working equivalent to his peers by high school. He is not equivalent to his peers now, but we're closing the gap. (In other words, he needs to progress more than a year's worth of skill level at a time. That doesn't mean work through more than one writing book, etc. per year; it means increase his skill over that year. Hope that makes sense. )

If an evaluation plus your own sense of your child tells you that he just won't be able to make it without another couple years of extended high school, that's one thing. But a child with uneven academic development usually can be brought up to grade level, but that's much more likely after assessment, choosing a plan of attack, and evaluating that particular plan for how well it works.

[Dulcimeramy]

One of the biggest challenges for us moms, I believe, is in comparisons. We compare ourselves to other moms, our families to other families, our kids to other kids (even our own!). This path will only lead to frustration. If the changes you have made have helped your child to be more successful, and happier, academically, then those are changes that needed to be made. Just because older brother is ahead does not mean that the younger sibling needs to be, or even can be, keeping up with that pace. This is where the flexibility of homeschooling comes in.

Don't feel you need to 'keep advancing' him just because traditional grade guidelines deem it so. Those 'metric/guidelines' are for kids who, most of them, don't have any special needs. You and I have a child (or children) that requires some extra time. And, honestly, with such a wide variety of ages of people in college now, he most likely will 'fit in' when he gets there. Right now, focus on what YOU, as his mom, know what he needs. And always remember, you're not alone!

HTH!

It does help! Thank you very much for this.

Do you know why Jonas is a year and a half behind? That seems very important to me. If there is a particular disability and you know what it is, you can be working to remediate it. In most cases, disabilities can be remediated with specifically applied strategies. Have you had an evaluation done?

Which *strategies* you use is a different issue entirely from what grade level your child is working on. The strategies (not curricula) you use should be helping them close the gap with their peers, and for most disabilities there are strategies that have research-support that they will do that. I think it is wise to advance your child step-by-step, *while* keeping an eye on which step their peers are on.

There are children who just need to "go at their own pace;" however, as someone who has spent a number of years remediating other people's kids and a couple of my own with special needs, I don't believe that that should be the default. I believe the default should be a plan to have them caught up to their peers by x date (hopefully by high school) . Only if an evaluation and a parent's sense of things showed this couldn't be done would I be comfortable recommending that.

I have one ds who had mild dyslexia. The reading part is remediated. The written language probably as close as he's going to get. He's in high school and really doesn't require accomodations on standardized testing, though his dyslexia still shows in his spelling. Other ds has multiple disabilities as well as some areas of giftedness. In my mind's eye, there is a curve where I'm working to have him working equivalent to his peers by high school. He is not equivalent to his peers now, but we're closing the gap. (In other words, he needs to progress more than a year's worth of skill level at a time. That doesn't mean work through more than one writing book, etc. per year; it means increase his skill over that year. Hope that makes sense. )

If an evaluation plus your own sense of your child tells you that he just won't be able to make it without another couple years of extended high school, that's one thing. But a child with uneven academic development usually can be brought up to grade level, but that's much more likely after assessment, choosing a plan of attack, and evaluating that particular plan for how well it works.

I've been looking through his old portfolios and his baby book. He has been consistently two years behind...always. He said his first word at 3, potty-trained at almost 5, began learning to read at 7 (all his brothers learned at 4-5), etc.

He was diagnosed with celiac disease at 8 years old. Until then he had a working diagnosis of ADHD and possibly Asperger's or something else on the autism spectrum. We were in the process of having him evaluated when we learned he had celiac disease, and the GF diet instantly made such a huge difference that he just didn't ping anything on the radar anymore.

The doctor said to have him evaluated further if there was trouble down the road, possibly at puberty (which is where we are now).

My gut tells me that he just started late, and will finish late. He's only been seriously learning for four years now, since the change in diet, and he's covered 1st to 4th grade in that time.

He can't successfully do two lessons in a day. I've tried to combine lessons and trim out some of the review, but that doesn't work. He needs every bit of each lesson, but then he does well on his work and on tests.

He always does learn the material. I can't think of any time in any subject when I was not able to get through to him. He's always made A's and B's in everything...as long as its 1.5 to 2 years behind grade level.

He's happy and thriving, and blossoming socially since he began tae kwon do. He is active and healthy and pursues his hobbies with passion and achievement.

I welcome your thoughts on this information, Laurie!

[Shari]

Which *strategies* you use is a different issue entirely from what grade level your child is working on. The strategies (not curricula) you use should be helping them close the gap with their peers, and for most disabilities. There are strategies that have research-support that they will do that. I think it is wise to advance your child step-by-step, *while* keeping an eye on which step their peers are on.

There are children who just need to "go at their own pace;" however, as someone who has spent a number of years remediating other people's kids and a couple of my own with special needs, I don't believe that that should be the default. I believe the default should be a plan to have them caught up to their peers by x date (hopefully by high school) . Only if an evaluation and a parent's sense of things showed this couldn't be done would I be comfortable recommending that.

I have one ds who had mild dyslexia. The reading part is remediated. The written language probably as close as he's going to get. He's in high school and really doesn't require accomodations on standardized testing, though his dyslexia still shows in his spelling. Other ds has multiple disabilities as well as some areas of giftedness. In my mind's eye, there is a curve where I'm working to have him working equivalent to his peers by high school. He is not equivalent to his peers now, but we're closing the gap. (In other words, he needs to progress more than a year's worth of skill level at a time. That doesn't mean work through more than one writing book, etc. per year; it means increase his skill over that year. Hope that makes sense. )

If an evaluation plus your own sense of your child tells you that he just won't be able to make it without another couple years of extended high school, that's one thing. But a child with uneven academic development usually can be brought up to grade level, but that's much more likely after assessment, choosing a plan of attack, and evaluating that particular plan for how well it works.

Laurie --

Your post intrigues me. So, what do you consider a "working equivalent" for a learning disabled student? If a student has been remediated, but still struggles with reading and/or spelling ... is that acceptable? Because it's really NOT equivalent. Do you expect a high schooler struggling with dyslexia to have the same workload and requirements as one who is not LD?

Not being snarky, I promise. I have a dyslexic ds (just now entering 5th), and I am very concerned about getting him 'up to speed' by the time he leaves my home. I've even begun to question what is fair to expect of him. While I do not want to tolerate laziness, I am not sure how hard to push either.

[Carol in Cal.]

And it also sounds like he can't do two lessons in one day.

My inclination would be to do a lesson every day, but 6-7 days per week, and through the summer as well, to get him back on track. If you school year round, curricula that have a lot of review early in each book would enable you to skip some of those lessons that assume that you have not schooled through the summer. I would think that you could do 3 years of math work in two years, and then he would be a respectable 1 year behind going into 8th grade.

Something I have considered (although I ended up not doing it) is two years of 8th grade. The range of skills and academics in 8th grade is really huge, and since a lot of people these days are holding their children back in kindergarten, the age range in 8th is broad as well. Is that something that you could consider?

For math, in CA, the new norm is Algebra 1 in 8th grade. However, it is clear to me from this board that there are lots of children who take Algebra 1 in 9th. I would recommend trying for 8th, but falling back to 9th if necessary. And I would recommend setting your plans to reach one of those two goals, and being pretty determined about converging there.

My inclination would be not to worry about science too much at this level. Familiarity with the sciences is helpful, but real science study doesn't have to start until high school. I would recommend using the old WTM books--How Science Works, etc. and doing experiments. I used those for grades 5 and 6 for the most part, and then switched to Science Explorer, but I think you could stick with the 'How' books and do just fine. But I would not prioritize science very high right now. I would try to get him on grade level in math before 9th grade, and to maintain his superior language arts skills. Then if you can fit science in, that would be great. One other thing to consider if he is good at language arts is doing Science Roots from Vocabulary Vine. That would be excellent prep for Biology in high school

[EKS]

Laurie --

Your post intrigues me. So, what do you consider a "working equivalent" for a learning disabled student? If a student has been remediated, but still struggles with reading and/or spelling ... is that acceptable? Because it's really NOT equivalent. Do you expect a high schooler struggling with dyslexia to have the same workload and requirements as one who is not LD?

Not being snarky, I promise. I have a dyslexic ds (just now entering 5th), and I am very concerned about getting him 'up to speed' by the time he leaves my home. I've even begun to question what is fair to expect of him. While I do not want to tolerate laziness, I am not sure how hard to push either.

Not Laurie4b, but I'll jump in anyway.

My son is 13yo and officially entering high school next fall. Over the years he has been diagnosed (in order of diagnosis) with being "just slow", ADHD, Asperger's (later undiagnosed), sensory processing disorder, auditory processing disorder, visual issues, dyslexia, and, finally, giftedness. To me, the giftedness means that I not only needed to facilitate his getting caught up to his grade level peers, but that my ultimate goal was to get him caught up to his potential.

Lots of professionals have recommended that he be given a reduced workload because of his issues. I completely disagree with this idea. This is a child who needs *more* practice, not less. While requiring a kid like my son to do less might make a teacher's life easier in a classroom situation, it has the potential to do devastating damage to a child in the end by making him more behind than he was to begin with.

I choose materials and teaching methods that give as much bang for my "output buck" as possible. For example, I would rather have my son use his limited output energy writing an essay or report than filling in worksheets, so we do the worksheets orally, or skip them entirely but then he writes a multi-paragraph piece on the larger topic at hand.

It takes him longer to do his work that it would if he didn't have dyslexia and ADHD, sometimes quite a bit longer. But when he tells me that he "can't" do something because he has dyslexia, I just tell him that having dyslexia means that he has to work harder in certain areas.

He uses a computer for all written work and that has helped immensely by bypassing spelling and handwriting issues. He has a 504 plan on file with the school district allowing its use as well as extended time on tests. Even though he uses the spellchecker in his daily work, we still are working on spelling. He also has to do certain things by hand, like math problems and science tests.

I think that careful allocation of "output energy" is one way to help these kids move ahead more quickly. But if at all possible, by the time they reach high school they should be doing high school level work (input and output) at a high school level pace. Not everything will be remediated perfectly, but if I had to choose one thing to focus on getting fully remediated (meaning it's not a struggle), it would be reading.

[Dulcimeramy]

And it also sounds like he can't do two lessons in one day.

My inclination would be to do a lesson every day, but 6-7 days per week, and through the summer as well, to get him back on track. If you school year round, curricula that have a lot of review early in each book would enable you to skip some of those lessons that assume that you have not schooled through the summer. I would think that you could do 3 years of math work in two years, and then he would be a respectable 1 year behind going into 8th grade.

Something I have considered (although I ended up not doing it) is two years of 8th grade. The range of skills and academics in 8th grade is really huge, and since a lot of people these days are holding their children back in kindergarten, the age range in 8th is broad as well. Is that something that you could consider?

For math, in CA, the new norm is Algebra 1 in 8th grade. However, it is clear to me from this board that there are lots of children who take Algebra 1 in 9th. I would recommend trying for 8th, but falling back to 9th if necessary. And I would recommend setting your plans to reach one of those two goals, and being pretty determined about converging there.

My inclination would be not to worry about science too much at this level. Familiarity with the sciences is helpful, but real science study doesn't have to start until high school. I would recommend using the old WTM books--How Science Works, etc. and doing experiments. I used those for grades 5 and 6 for the most part, and then switched to Science Explorer, but I think you could stick with the 'How' books and do just fine. But I would not prioritize science very high right now. I would try to get him on grade level in math before 9th grade, and to maintain his superior language arts skills. Then if you can fit science in, that would be great. One other thing to consider if he is good at language arts is doing Science Roots from Vocabulary Vine. That would be excellent prep for Biology in high school

Thank you! This is very helpful. I am pretty sure I can:

1. Do math and science 6-7 days a week, year round. (His new-found interest in science is motivating him to learn more math)

2. Plan for two years for 8th grade.

3. Keep up his language skills.

Not Laurie4b, but I'll jump in anyway.

My son is 13yo and officially entering high school next fall. Over the years he has been diagnosed (in order of diagnosis) with being "just slow", ADHD, Asperger's (later undiagnosed), sensory processing disorder, auditory processing disorder, visual issues, dyslexia, and, finally, giftedness. To me, the giftedness means that I not only needed to facilitate his getting caught up to his grade level peers, but that my ultimate goal was to get him caught up to his potential.

Lots of professionals have recommended that he be given a reduced workload because of his issues. I completely disagree with this idea. This is a child who needs *more* practice, not less. While requiring a kid like my son to do less might make a teacher's life easier in a classroom situation, it has the potential to do devastating damage to a child in the end by making him more behind than he was to begin with.

I choose materials and teaching methods that give as much bang for my "output buck" as possible. For example, I would rather have my son use his limited output energy writing an essay or report than filling in worksheets, so we do the worksheets orally, or skip them entirely but then he writes a multi-paragraph piece on the larger topic at hand.

It takes him longer to do his work that it would if he didn't have dyslexia and ADHD, sometimes quite a bit longer. But when he tells me that he "can't" do something because he has dyslexia, I just tell him that having dyslexia means that he has to work harder in certain areas.

He uses a computer for all written work and that has helped immensely by bypassing spelling and handwriting issues. He has a 504 plan on file with the school district allowing its use as well as extended time on tests. Even though he uses the spellchecker in his daily work, we still are working on spelling. He also has to do certain things by hand, like math problems and science tests.

I think that careful allocation of "output energy" is one way to help these kids move ahead more quickly. But if at all possible, by the time they reach high school they should be doing high school level work (input and output) at a high school level pace. Not everything will be remediated perfectly, but if I had to choose one thing to focus on getting fully remediated (meaning it's not a struggle), it would be reading.

This is what I'm learning. I'm learning that its probably not a matter of doing the same curric. that older ds does, at a slower rate. Success comes when I find something that wasn't so intense to begin with, that still gets the job done. And then give him more time to get through the less-intense material.

I need to read this board more :001_smile: I've appreciated this thread so much.

[Momto2Ns]

Thank you! This is very helpful. I am pretty sure I can:

1. Do math and science 6-7 days a week, year round. (His new-found interest in science is motivating him to learn more math)

2. Plan for two years for 8th grade.

3. Keep up his language skills.



This is what I'm learning. I'm learning that its probably not a matter of doing the same curric. that older ds does, at a slower rate. Success comes when I find something that wasn't so intense to begin with, that still gets the job done. And then give him more time to get through the less-intense material.

I need to read this board more :001_smile: I've appreciated this thread so much.

I wouldn't worry too much about the science. There is really no set level for what science must be learned at any particular grade. If it is motivating him to do more math - I'd use that:D. But otherwise, I would focus mostly on catching him up in math. The year-round approach sounds like a great plan.

Looking ahead and saying, if he isn't ready for high school in all subjects, we'll do an extra year in 8th grade is also a good plan.

I think you are fine to continue working at his level and his pace. That is all he can do. Use the great ideas you've been given to maximize that pace, then find peace in it.

[Stacy in NJ]

I think you are fine to continue working at his level and his pace. That is all he can do. Use the great ideas you've been given to maximize that pace, then find peace in it.

I completely agree with this. I think sometimes parent use the "move at their own pace" idea to justifiy not challenging their child. Teaching an LD student can be such hard work. But I also think the "must move faster to catch up with peers" idea is equally unhelpful. Not every weakness can be remediated. But there are always strengths, interests, and room to grow.

Find the right groove. :D It sounds like you are already doing that.

[Dulcimeramy]

I wouldn't worry too much about the science. There is really no set level for what science must be learned at any particular grade. If it is motivating him to do more math - I'd use that:D. But otherwise, I would focus mostly on catching him up in math. The year-round approach sounds like a great plan.

Looking ahead and saying, if he isn't ready for high school in all subjects, we'll do an extra year in 8th grade is also a good plan.

I think you are fine to continue working at his level and his pace. That is all he can do. Use the great ideas you've been given to maximize that pace, then find peace in it.

I completely agree with this. I think sometimes parent use the "move at their own pace" idea to justifiy not challenging their child. Teaching an LD student can be such hard work. But I also think the "must move faster to catch up with peers" idea is equally unhelpful. Not every weakness can be remediated. But there are always strengths, interests, and room to grow.

Find the right groove. :D It sounds like you are already doing that.

Thank you both so much.

[Cadam]

I would be doing math 6 days a week year-round, but other than that I think it will be fine. If you get the math up to speed he should be ready for High School level work on time.

[Laurie4b]

Laurie --

Your post intrigues me. So, what do you consider a "working equivalent" for a learning disabled student? If a student has been remediated, but still struggles with reading and/or spelling ... is that acceptable? Because it's really NOT equivalent. Do you expect a high schooler struggling with dyslexia to have the same workload and requirements as one who is not LD?

Not being snarky, I promise. I have a dyslexic ds (just now entering 5th), and I am very concerned about getting him 'up to speed' by the time he leaves my home. I've even begun to question what is fair to expect of him. While I do not want to tolerate laziness, I am not sure how hard to push either.


Yes, I think many (most?) kids with dyslexia can handle the workload their peers do. It may take them longer to do the same amount of work; in some cases, they may need audio materials. To me "remediated" means that they are at least on grade level, and better yet, are on a level commensurate with their IQ. The most common residual effects of dyslexia are a slower reading speed and spelling issues. One of my kids with dyslexia was remediated in reading after a course of Phonograhix tutoring and REWARDS secondary. (he jumped 4 grade levels on reading comprehension after this) The other needed Wilson tutoring, REWARDS secondary, and REWARDS plus. ( I used REWARDS plus because he didn't have the same jump in reading comprehension as older brother. He needed more time to solidy the gains.) He is reading more and more for pleasure. The second one has other LD's as well: dysgraphia, a "not otherwise specified" one having to do with visual processing, and ADHD. The dysgraphia is harder, but we're coming along on it. He's in 7th now. If he's not where he needs to be by high school, I'll get him some Ginger software (or whatever is available by then) and I think he'll be fine. It is like pulling teeth, but I pull.

I can't speak to your particular child; one would need to look at the total evaluation to figure where his particular trajectory will be. Right now, LD diagnosis generally depends on the achievement being 15 points lower than IQ. However, I think that many kids, once remediated, close that gap enough so that they no longer qualify as LD, even though they still have some brain differences, but that's A-ok.

But for my kids, and many others I know, there was no need to lower the bar of ultimate expectations. It has meant to go step-by-step along the way, carefully evaluating what he can do at the moment. It's meant making accomodations so that he doesn't fall behind on the one hand, while remediating so that he ultimately will need as few accomodations as possible on the other hand. My eye is always on closing that gap for the future. Right now, I'm guessing, it will interesect by 9th grade for the younger ds. The older one is doing quite well. I'd say he had closed the gap somewhere around 7th grade.

I think it's helpful for kids with dyslexia to know of the many successful people who have had dyslexia and have achieved quite highly. In fact, dyslexic individuals are over-represented among entrepreneurs, for instance. I tell my younger one (who struggles more) that kids who have something that they overcome as kids end up being stronger adults than do kids for whom everything was easy. That's true, and it gives them a hope for the future--that they won't always be the one who is "behind" but that someday, they'll be "ahead" in an important way.

[Laurie4b]

Not Laurie4b, but I'll jump in anyway.

To me, the giftedness means that I not only needed to facilitate his getting caught up to his grade level peers, but that my ultimate goal was to get him caught up to his potential.

I choose materials and teaching methods that give as much bang for my "output buck" as possible. For example, I would rather have my son use his limited output energy writing an essay or report than filling in worksheets, so we do the worksheets orally, or skip them entirely but then he writes a multi-paragraph piece on the larger topic at hand.

It takes him longer to do his work that it would if he didn't have dyslexia and ADHD, sometimes quite a bit longer. But when he tells me that he "can't" do something because he has dyslexia, I just tell him that having dyslexia means that he has to work harder in certain areas.

He uses a computer for all written work and that has helped immensely by bypassing spelling and handwriting issues. He has a 504 plan on file with the school district allowing its use as well as extended time on tests. Even though he uses the spellchecker in his daily work, we still are working on spelling. He also has to do certain things by hand, like math problems and science tests.

I think that careful allocation of "output energy" is one way to help these kids move ahead more quickly. But if at all possible, by the time they reach high school they should be doing high school level work (input and output) at a high school level pace. Not everything will be remediated perfectly, but if I had to choose one thing to focus on getting fully remediated (meaning it's not a struggle), it would be reading.


This is very similar to what we do. I am shooting for "working at his potential." We do a lot of stuff orally, like grammar. He has to work math by hand. He does his written work on a computer. He is required to write at a similar level to his peers, but right now, we extend a report or such over a period of days. Whatever we can't remediate, we will find a work-around for, but not until I believe that we've come as far as we can come.

For instance, years ago, I could see that the amount of time it would have taken to remediate handwriting was not going to pay off. We switched to keyboarding and working on writing numbers correctly because software to do math on a keyboard looked to be a pain. I have not given up on spelling, though I am keeping in mind that a program like Ginger may well be in his future. I don't want to give that to him now because I want to continue to work with developing him. If we need to, we'll use Ginger. If we need something further, we'll do voice-activated software. Between actual academic remediation and work-arounds, I intend for him to be able to work to his potential.