Do you think college admissions departments care about curriculum publishers?

[Beth in SW WA]

Would Apologia & BJU, for instance, have the same 'wow' factor as mainstream secular materials?

Also, will TT Geometry look as impressive as Prentice Hall or Houghton Mifflin?

How about Latin In The Christian Trivium vs. Wheelocks?

OR do they not care?

Thanks!!

[periwinkle]

did not ask for publishers or course descriptions.

They saw Algebra II or Biology (with lab) on the transcript, and that was that.

[Gwen in VA]

I hate to say this, but contact the school, or ask here about specific colleges and see what other folks' experiences have been with those colleges.

All the schools my son applied to REQUIRED course descriptions. Our course descriptions did include the textbooks, so when my ds applied, the textbooks we used were part of his appication package.

[Jane in NC]

The local CC never raises an eyebrow, but, interestingly, the regional university that is growing in student quality did in fact question a friend whose child used Alpha Omega. To me their request was reasonable: have the student take a number of SAT subject tests to ensure that he was on pare with students who used known curricula. The parents were outraged and felt that the school was unfairly demanding more of their child than other applicants. I presume that a transcript and SAT did not present the entire picture to their admissions staff.

It does seem common for some schools to ask for subject tests not only from homeschoolers but also kids from "unknown" (small/rural) school districts.

Jane

[Charon]

The local CC never raises an eyebrow, but, interestingly, the regional university that is growing in student quality did in fact question a friend whose child used Alpha Omega. To me their request was reasonable: have the student take a number of SAT subject tests to ensure that he was on pare with students who used known curricula. The parents were outraged and felt that the school was unfairly demanding more of their child than other applicants. I presume that a transcript and SAT did not present the entire picture to their admissions staff.

It does seem common for some schools to ask for subject tests not only from homeschoolers but also kids from "unknown" (small/rural) school districts.

Jane


Well, what's kind of dumb about that is that the parents could have said anything. Is it just their policy to make all homeschoolers take subject area tests? It's just kind of lame any way you look at it, though, because high schools could really be doing virtually anything, for that matter. You certainly cannot rely on one (even if it is really super low) universal standard coming out of thousands of high schools in the state. You just have to accept them or not based on an IQ test (aka the SAT) and then place them specifically into your program with your own placement tests. If you have a super bright student, it really doesn't matter if they lack education beyond basic SAT-type stuff. You pretty much have to structure your courses that way anyway. For instance, I took freshman Latin, History, Chemistry and Physics in college. None of these assumed any particular prior knowledge. (Technically speaking, I placed into second semester Latin, but based on that, I seriously doubt the first semester assumed anything.) About the only things that do really assume actual knowledge are English and Math, and the former only because they didn't teach me any grammar and just expected me to write essays straight away. (I don't know if that even counts -- I guess if it does, then maybe history has that same "prerequisite". Come to think of it, they all expect you to be able to read....?)

At any rate, I'm just sayin'... if you let high schoolers in from more than a few high schools without checking, then I don't see why you wouldn't let just anyone in that makes a good score on the SAT proper. In fact, just imagine the absurdity of "I see here you made an 800 on the math portion of the SAT and placed into our second semester calculus, according to the placement test we gave you. But, we were a little concerned about the fact that you used Teaching Textbooks, so we're asking you to take the SAT math subject test...."

[kathleen]

None of the schools to which my older son applied, nor the ones to which my younger son will apply ask for the names of textbooks used. I would think that even if a college wanted a course description that the textbook name doesn't need to be mentioned (unless they ask for it specifically). Of course, I don't think there is anything wrong with Apologia or BJU materials, so I wouldn't hesitate to name them if asked.

[HollyinNNV]

And on a similar note as Charon, it is absurd to think that ANY admissions officer would have knowledge of every secular/public school used textbook out there. In fact, if you mentioned Smarr Literature by Hewitt, would they even know that it is used primarily by homeschoolers? Would they know the difference between Holt Biology and Campbell Biology? Give me a break!

[Beth in SW WA]

Again, referring to UofW, this is what got me on this credit/curriculum kick this past week:


Required Documents

Homeschooled applicants must present a homeschool transcript that includes course titles of each subject studied, duration of study, a short description of content, and grade or assessment of performance. Preferably, courses completed at home would adhere to a nationally recognized homeschooled curriculum.


I wonder what they consider "nationally recognized" and HOW do they know what is or what isn't?

And awhile back folks here were concerned that the University of CA system wasn't accepting BJU for some history and/or science high school courses (PLEASE forgive me if I don't have my facts straight).

Thanks, gang, for your responses.

[Karin]

Well, what's kind of dumb about that is that the parents could have said anything. Is it just their policy to make all homeschoolers take subject area tests?
At any rate, I'm just sayin'... if you let high schoolers in from more than a few high schools without checking, then I don't see why you wouldn't let just anyone in that makes a good score on the SAT proper. In fact, just imagine the absurdity of "I see here you made an 800 on the math portion of the SAT and placed into our second semester calculus, according to the placement test we gave you. But, we were a little concerned about the fact that you used Teaching Textbooks, so we're asking you to take the SAT math subject test...."

I agree (just quoted part) but having just read Homeschooling Highschool, which lists a number of universities and what they require from homeschoolers, there are some that specifically require SAT II tests for homeschoolers. Not that that's strictly logical, but I don't think that logic prevails in our society so am not surprised, and am guessing they find it better to make one rule for all homeschoolers. Perhaps to them, homeschoolers are more of an unknown. And at least one college spokesperson cited in the book pointed out that what they saw was that homeschoolers tend to score in a certain SAT range far more consistenty than kids from public schools and, now we're getting into my interpretation of the rest of what they said, they don't trust that so they look for more.

[periwinkle]

I wonder what they consider "nationally recognized" and HOW do they know what is or what isn't?

Good question.:001_huh:

I would be inclined to call and ask them.

[Denise in NE]

Every school is going to have a different policy. It's best to be informed about every possible post-secondary institution under consideration. For example...

http://admissions.unl.edu/requirements/homeschool.asp

Denise in NE

P.S. The GED part cracks me up. Why would we voluntarily do that!!!???!!!

[Jane in NC]

It's just kind of lame any way you look at it, though, because high schools could really be doing virtually anything, for that matter. You certainly cannot rely on one (even if it is really super low) universal standard coming out of thousands of high schools in the state.
...

At any rate, I'm just sayin'... if you let high schoolers in from more than a few high schools without checking, then I don't see why you wouldn't let just anyone in that makes a good score on the SAT proper. In fact, just imagine the absurdity of "I see here you made an 800 on the math portion of the SAT and placed into our second semester calculus, according to the placement test we gave you. But, we were a little concerned about the fact that you used Teaching Textbooks, so we're asking you to take the SAT math subject test...."

Not sure what the formula is these days, but in past times schools the UNC system considered an applicant on the basis of SAT, high school transcript, and extra curriculars/recommendations (roughly one third each). I have known homeschool applicants who were accepted on the basis of their SAT and homeschool transcript without any difficulty. But many students have less than stellar SATs yet they are accepted into one of the lesser branches of the UNC system (not necessarily Chapel Hill). If one's SAT score is on the lower end of the spectrum, how does the university judge?

The lesser UNC schools often attract a greater population from their geographic regions where the local high schools are known entities. Not working in admissions, I don't know how they would rate a student from a rural NC mountain school when compared to our rural coastal schools, let alone students from out of state schools. The more competitive universities which attract students nationally and internationally often state the need for SAT subject tests as equalizers. School systems do all sorts of goofy things with transcripts, particularly with grade point averages. They become rather meaningless. Hence the importance of the interview either on site or with the local contact. (I have a friend who is the local interviewer for an Ivy League school. He says that after a few minutes with an applicant it is abundantly clear which students use consultants and which schools have talented advisors on staff.)

Personally I am not in favor of admissions based solely on an SAT or ACT score. There is more to a student than performance on one of these tests. Nor am I suggesting that using more multiple choice tests (SAT subject) should be the standard. If a transcript is typical, if SAT scores are say on the lower end of acceptable, if extracurriculars and recommendations are nothing special, what does a college do?

Seems to me that part of the problem is that so many kids are gaming the system or trying to. How do or how should the admissions people see through the malarkey?

Jane

[Rebecca in VA]

in a negative way or a positive way? If a student has rehearsed with a college admissions coaching service, would that better his chances or make him seem too "packaged?" I've read about those services and, while we have no intentions of using one (my son plans to go to Patrick Henry College, which is just five miles down the road), I'm curious about the kinds of results they produce.

[Virginia Dawn]

I never had to give any college course descriptions or curriculum descriptions. Ds took the SAT once with no subject tests, I just turned in a transcript, description of extracurricular activities, and references. I did have to fill out a "secondary school report" for all the colleges. It asked for our grading scale and the relative difficulty level of my son's curriculum. I think what made all that acceptable, without further elaboration on my part, was the fact that my son was full-time dual-enrolled in the community college his senior year and made straight A's in relevant subjects.

This was for 5 colleges, 2 of them very selective. He was accepted at all of them

[Jane in NC]

in a negative way or a positive way? If a student has rehearsed with a college admissions coaching service, would that better his chances or make him seem too "packaged?"

We have not discussed the whole coaching business, but he did say that schools like his alma mater see a number of students who are stellar on paper but almost disinterested in person. It is not that he expects a kid to have his future perfectly planned but he would like to know why the student has applied to his university. It appears, sometimes, that a student has applied only because his parents told him to or because grandpa attended the school.

One of these days I'll ask him about coaching services and report back.

Jane

[Virginia Dawn]

By the way, I think dual-enrollment in college courses during high school is the way to go, especially if you don't want to worry about SAT subject tests or AP classes. Colleges look very favorably at kids who can make the grade in a "higher education setting."

[Jane in NC]

By the way, I think dual-enrollment in college courses during high school is the way to go, especially if you don't want to worry about SAT subject tests or AP classes. Colleges look very favorably at kids who can make the grade in a "higher education setting."

Hi Virginia,

I was going to append my question to your post, but created a new thread instead. Did your student apply to out of state colleges? I am curious how out of state schools view courses from another state's CC. CC is a lot easier than dealing with AP test scheduling with my local public school system. (Growl, growl.)

Thank you,
Jane

[HollyinNNV]

In fact, if you mentioned Smarr Literature by Hewitt,

Or:lol:if you mentioned Smarr by Hewitt, would they know that those are two different publishers?:D
Oops,
Holly

[Katia]

I don't think the text you use makes a whole lot of difference to the colleges. Use what works for the child.

My dd just applied to (and was accepted at) five colleges in 4 different states. Two were state universities, two were private liberal arts colleges and one was a music conservatory.

All five colleges wanted ACT scores (dd's were above average but not what I would call terrific) and an Academic Portfolio which listed: Course Title, dates course was taken, texts used in course including title of text, author and/or publisher, and a course description.

Dd used Alpha Omega for several history courses, Apologia for science courses, and Teaching Textbooks for math courses. There was never and issue with these texts: she was accepted into all the colleges.

Also, her transcript and academic portfolio, when reviewed by the state U in Indiana, was considered to be not only equal to but above the Indiana State Honors Diploma and she was admitted into their Honors College.

From our experiences, I would say you are fine to use whatever text works for your child.

[Lori L]

We didn't have any colleges care what curriculum we used with our graduate... of course our son was a National Merit Scholar and had high test scores on the SAT and ACT so they were all just recruiting him. I wouldn't have hesitated to list what curriculum we used.

[Beth in SW WA]

We have a branch of Washington State University here in Vancouver. Here is their admissions policy regarding homeschool students. Does this look typical of most colleges? Thanks!



Admissions
Policy for Home-Based Schooling
Admissions

Washington State University welcomes students who have received some or all of their high school education through home-based instruction. If you are a home-schooled student, you must complete the following to apply for admission to Washington State University Vancouver:
Required Documents:

* A completed application for freshman admission and the required application fee.
* Official transcripts from either the Scholastic Achievement Test (SAT) or the American College Test (ACT).
* Official transcripts from all high schools and colleges attended (private or public).
* Choose one of the following requirements:

Send your official transcripts from the General Education Development (GED) exam.
OR
Supply an academic resume that provides documentation of all subjects studied. Please review our high school core requirements (listed below).

You will need to document in detail how your home-based instruction fulfills these requirements:

* 4 years of English
* 3 years of College preparatory math (algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2 as minimums)
* 3 years of social science
* 2 years of science (1 of must be a lab science)
* 2 years of the same foreign language, Native American language, or American Sign Language
* 1 year of fine/visual/performing arts, or an additional year of one of the above core areas

For each course, please include a detailed description as well as the title, author, and copyright date (or ISBN) of each textbook used.

[Janet in WA]

I wonder what they consider "nationally recognized" and HOW do they know what is or what isn't?I think they're blowing smoke here. I don't think they do know. But they're hoping we know and will use a "nationally recognized homeschooled curriculum" -- whatever that is. Our course descriptions did include texts and other resources used, and BJU, Apologia and Saxon were among the usual suspects. Must have been good enough.

[Nan in Mass]

It looks like the ones I've looked at, but I'm no expert.

[Lori L]

I have heard of parents including information like the detailed description requested by Washington State with their students application. Some schools can also ask for SAT subject tests, etc., or require a GED too. It is their prerogative to ask for whatever documentation they feel is necessary or has been determined by their policies (or the state for state schools). None of the universities my son was interested in attending required anything like this. If they had, I would not have hesitated to provide the information. If we had felt that they were asking for an excessive amount of documentation (or a GED) that school would have been out of the running for my son. If you want to attend a certain college you need to be willing to jump through whatever hoops they have. It's up to you to decide if you feel the hoops are excessive.

[Janet in WA]

We have a branch of Washington State University here in Vancouver. Here is their admissions policy regarding homeschool students. Does this look typical of most colleges? Thanks!



Admissions
Policy for Home-Based Schooling
Admissions

Washington State University welcomes students who have received some or all of their high school education through home-based instruction. If you are a home-schooled student, you must complete the following to apply for admission to Washington State University Vancouver:
Required Documents:

* A completed application for freshman admission and the required application fee.
* Official transcripts from either the Scholastic Achievement Test (SAT) or the American College Test (ACT).
* Official transcripts from all high schools and colleges attended (private or public).
* Choose one of the following requirements:

Send your official transcripts from the General Education Development (GED) exam.
OR
Supply an academic resume that provides documentation of all subjects studied. Please review our high school core requirements (listed below).

You will need to document in detail how your home-based instruction fulfills these requirements:

* 4 years of English
* 3 years of College preparatory math (algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2 as minimums)
* 3 years of social science
* 2 years of science (1 of must be a lab science)
* 2 years of the same foreign language, Native American language, or American Sign Language
* 1 year of fine/visual/performing arts, or an additional year of one of the above core areas

For each course, please include a detailed description as well as the title, author, and copyright date (or ISBN) of each textbook used.

You know, I could swear that this is more than was required of homeschooled applicants when our youngest son applied to WSU a little over 3 years ago. I don't think the "You will need to document in detail how your home-based instruction fulfills these requirements" thing existed then. I did supply all of that stuff, but I don't recall their actually saying they required it. I just checked the admissions requirements at WSU's main campus website. They're stated a little differently (including no mention of textbook info):

Policy for home-based schooling.

Washington State University welcomes students who have received some or all of their high school education through home-based instruction. If you are a home-schooled student, you must complete the following to apply for admission to Washington State University:
Required Documents:

A completed application for freshman admission and the required application fee.
Official transcripts from either the Scholastic Achievement Test (SAT) or the American College Test (ACT).
Official transcripts from all high schools and colleges attended (private or public).
Choose one of the following requirements:
Send your official transcripts from the General Education Development (GED) exam,
OR
Supply an academic resume that provides documentation of all subjects studied, including the signature of the parent or guardian responsible for the student's curriculum.
High school core requirements

Please review our high school core requirements below. You will need to document in detail how your home-based instruction fulfills these requirements:


English—four years, including at least three of composition and literature
Mathematics—one year each of algebra 1, geometry, and advanced algebra; an additional (senior) year is recommended
Science—two years, including one year of lab science (biology, chemistry, or physics)
Foreign language—2 years of a single foreign language,
Native American language, or American Sign Language
Social Science—three years, including at least one year of history
Arts—one year in fine, visual, or performing arts or an additional year of the courses listed above