Intellectual conversation at college?

[Gwen in VA]

I'm sorry -- I am posting a lot with all kinds of college questions. I pray these are either amusing or helping folks!

My question -- did you have any "intellectually-stimulating conversations" at college?

Never?
Rarely?
Infrequently?
Frequently?

I would set this up as a poll, but that is WAY beyond my computing ability! (Don't ask -- yes, I'm an engineer. Yes, I should probably have stayed a liberal arts person!)

My answer -- rarely. I went to Smith College and then MIT, and I have to say that I had them rarely. Our average dinner-table conversation is MUCH more "intellectual" than almost any conversations I had at college!

[Kimber]

I went to Lamar in TX in engineering. And we had tons of intellectual conversations. It's one of the things I miss most about college. I'm surrounded by people now who only want to discuss day to day living.

I think everyone in our area tries so hard to be politically correct, they don't want to offend anyone. But the consequence of that, is that no one really talks about anything.

In our family we have lots of liberals from various countries and ethnic backgrounds. One of my favorite activities is to bring up Rush Limbaugh in a conversation with them. Not because I believe anything he says, but because it gets them all riled up. Ahh, the simple pleasures of life. ;)

[Margaret in CO]

Yes, I did, but remember, this was Boulder in the early 70's... :D

I know my dd has, at Hillsdale--in fact this was a frustration of hers with a close friend--that he HADN'T had those conversations about big ideas. And he's not having many now, as a chem major in WV. Hillsdale's motto is: Ideas have consequences.

My second dd has had a LOT of those conversations--she takes whole classes in them in ethics and leadership at USNA.

[mcconnellboys]

I would have said "frequently" back then, but in retrospect, I would agree that the conversations I had with friends this past weekend at conference, for example, are *way* more intellectual.

But don't you think that's a maturity issue? For our age and mental maturity at the time we were in college, we *were* having intellectual conversations, which I would now liken to a Nouveau wine, LOL. Our conversations now *seem* more like a fine Port, but I'm hopeful that they will continue to mature into something even better as time goes on......

Never stop learning.......

Regena

[FloridaLisa]

In undergrad, my only intellectual conversations occurred in our Bible studies. These were student-directed Bible studies I had with friends. In law school, I recall more intellectual conversations between classes, during study sessions -- though there were plenty of shallow conversations as well!

Interesting question,
Lisa

[Hilary]

I went to Brown as an undergraduate, and I don't remember ANY intellectual conversations. My roommate and I tended to discuss which guys were cute and how we could manage to sit at the same table with them the next time we went to the dining hall :) FWIW, she ended up marrying one of those cute guys and now they have a DD who's a Rhodes scholar, so maybe all that maneuvering bore fruit in the next generation :)

I went to Harvard graduate school (in city planning) and I don't remember any intellectual conversation there either. But I was married and living off-campus in the Boston suburbs, so I probably didn't have as much interaction with my fellow students as I could have.

I grew up with very intellectual conversations at the dinner table ... much of it over my head, but at least it made me realize that there was a world beyond boys, clothes, and dieting ... my three main obsessions at the time.

How do you define "intellectual" though? I still struggle with that. I know I'm intelligent and very well-educated, but I've never thought of myself as an intellectual. I tend to zone out in conversations about abstract subjects (so why did I marry someone with a PhD in philosophy???) and can someone who regularly reads People magazine, whose favorite TV shows are "Biggest Loser," "Intervention," and "Jon & Kate" and whose favorite internet hangout is a board devoted to fitness really be termed an "intellectual"?

[Kareni]

I'd say, "Yes, fairly frequently." However, these conversations usually took place out of rather than in the classroom. Think of midnight discussions of the nature of God, truth, etc., when one really should have been doing homework for a class, writing a paper, or studying for a test.

Regards,
Kareni

[Gwen in VA]

Actually Kareni, I meant to be asking about non-classroom conversations. Sorry I wasn't clearer!

That is a hoot that you are married to a Ph.D. in philosophy and don't enjoy abstract conversations. :)

My son toys with getting a ph.D. in philosophy, though his first love is government (theoretical, of course.)

I don't want to actually definite what I mean by 'intellectual" -- I guess I figure that any conversation not dealing with the trivial or mundane might count. Our dinner conversations will go WAY down in intellectual content after ds leaves for college!

[Nan in Mass]

At my first college, my roommate tried to have this sort of conversation with me, but she was coming from a different perspective and just discovering things I'd taken for granted since I was about 6, and I was just discovering the things she'd taken for granted since she was 6, and it didn't work very well. With my own friends, I did, but they were engineering/art sort of intellectual, not history/literature/politics sort of intellectual.

At my second college, I was with my boyfriend/husband, and we had tons, but that was because we were so close. Again, they tended to be science/engineering/art/family oriented, with whatever music/philosophy/anthropology we were absorbing from our electives thrown in, not history/literature, although when I took Greek, we did a fair bit of mulling over the ancients. Our backgrounds were pretty much identical, so the conversations could go far with only a few words. I did have conversations with other people, too, but they tended to be about our mutual computer classes. Computers are a fruitful sorce of intellectual conversation, since they are baby brains. We discussed the scifi we were reading for fun, too.

-Nan

My sister went to a LAC and had lots of conversations on the history/literature/politics side.

[Virginia Dawn]

I think a lot depends on the teachers, the class size, and subject. My ds is attending community college right now and he has very stimulating conversations in many of his classes.

I'm also taking a class with the cc and the teacher talks through the whole thing, barely pausing. At the end of class he says, "Anyquestions?Good." then starts packing up his things.

[Virginia Dawn]

I guess I should have read through the whole thread. I very rarely have found anyone anywhere willing to have deep intellectual conversations outside a learning situation.

[Jane in NC]

For our age and mental maturity at the time we were in college, we *were* having intellectual conversations, which I would now liken to a Nouveau wine, LOL. Our conversations now *seem* more like a fine Port, but I'm hopeful that they will continue to mature into something even better as time goes on......

Regena

Love the analogy, Regena, although I feel that I have a considerable distance to travel before reaching the Port stage.

Initially I thought, "Yes, I often had intellectual conversations," but I suppose that they were often intellectually driven conversations of discovery. There I was, the math major, but I sought out English majors to discuss novels and poetry, as well as art majors who were really my favorite people in undergrad.

Grad school was another kettle of fish. I was most fortunate to be in a community of interesting thinkers. We had frequent potlucks with low budget, sort of gourmet foods, homemade beer, and terrific conversations on world events, literature, religion.

I must say though that I have always sought out interesting people with whom to have interesting conversations. (Why else would I be hanging around here?) The first group in undergrad that I fell in with were less than intellectual. Finding a new crowd took some work, but I am not shy.

Here in my own community I have also worked hard to find interesting people. What has disappointed me, though, is my attempt to have some intellectual theological discussion at my church. I would love to read Augustine or John Wesley's sermons with a group. Reading groups at my church tend toward the more popular selections which don't always appeal to me. Every time I mention City of God, the response is "What?"

At least I can assign The Faerie Queen to my son which we hope will lead to interesting discussion.

Jane

[GraceinMD]

Here in my own community I have also worked hard to find interesting people. What has disappointed me, though, is my attempt to have some intellectual theological discussion at my church. I would love to read Augustine or John Wesley's sermons with a group. Reading groups at my church tend toward the more popular selections which don't always appeal to me.

Jane, were you the one who was working on starting a Salon? (I can't find the old posts/emails about this.) I think it would be a great idea, and if you ARE the one I talked to about this on the old boards - how did it go?

Anyway, I think I did have "intellectual" discussions in college, but, as another poster said, maturity levels being what they were, I might not consider those same conversations "intellectual" now. I do recall HATING chitchat conversations, and would routinely ask people (e.g., at cast parties) questions such as, "What do you think about gun control?" (OK, weird, I know!) I developed a number of deep friendships from conversation started like that, though!

Now, many years later, dh and I are in a local group - a Salon - that was initially conceived of as a means of having those late-night college conversations about "big issues." We pretty much disagree with everyone in this group (it's about 40 folks), but it IS more stimulating, intellectually, than just chitchatting with people.

I've also wanted to start a salon for folks with similar faith, but not necessarily with similar beliefs - in our case, a "Christian salon," where we could discuss just those books and ideas that you mention.

[GraceinMD]

go out to a movie with my db and dsil! A. will MAKE you discuss the movie, even if it's 1 a.m. (I know this from seeing Apocalypse Now with him, and just saying, "I want to go to sleep! Please, can't we go home?" Unfortunately, it's hard (for me) to have those in-depth discussions with lots of kids around - I should have enjoyed the good old days!

[Jane in NC]

Jane, were you the one who was working on starting a Salon?


No, but my husband and I discussed the Salon concept before. We wondered if these things prove to be too forced. Apparently not from your report.

An idea that my son and I have been recently discussing is the need for civil conversation among those who disagree. It seems that even teens argue their point by repeating themselves in a louder voice, injecting their fingers into someone else's personal space. So much of the emotional invective that one hears could be avoided with civil conversation.

Dreaming on,
Jane

[mcconnellboys]

I'm right there with ya. I never felt I could really join in on group discussions much at my church. No one ever much understood what the heck I was talking about, LOL......I've been looking at the beginnings of the church for a few years now and I couldn't talk about that at *all*.....

Regena

[JFS in IL]

at University of Dallas (as did his kid bro and sis I betcha!) and his older brother did at St. John's. My in-law's dinner table conversation gets quite esoteric at times. I hoped I spelled that correctly, me and all my piddly California undergraduate colleges! Dude!

[Plaid Dad]

Frequently as an undergrad, but less frequently as a grad student. My graduate program was so focused on getting us ready for the academic job market that we had no time to shoot the breeze about big ideas. Sad, eh?

[Laura K (NC)]

That used to be a lot of fun. I went to a really small liberal arts college in Alabama as a music major. This was an unusual school in that most of the students were very conservative and Christian, yet there was a group of drama majors and a few music majors who were quite liberal and unusual and not religious at all.

We used to hang out in the lobby... there was a future preacher, at least three homosexuals (two were flaming, and this was my first realization that people could be homosexuals), two cheerleader-type vocal major divas (who honestly didn't hang out with us losers much), one angst-ridden intellectual who used to write his music theory notes in Russian to make it more interesting, and a few other young men and women. Since it was such a small university we often had professors who would stop by to chat. One of my favorite arguments was with a music professor, Dr. Pritchett, about whether pop music could be objectively as "good" as classical music.

We would hang out every day. We would post thought-provoking quotes on the bulletin board. Our liberal-arts degrees were such that we had many different classes to draw our ideas from... philosophy, economics, education, politics, literature, and our music classes.

I was a naive child until I had this opportunity to express my ideas and be exposed to, and sometimes influenced by, other ideas. I left this very safe proving ground after a few years to go to a huge state university. It was at the big university that I couldn't find such an outlet. It was at this big university that I lost my religion, my values, and my drive for learning.:crying: I think part of that was that there I was merely a passive student, the teachers were remote and authoritarian, and the only reason to learn was to get the heck out of college. Maybe I was just burned out and the university had nothing to do with it, but I believe I would have fared better if I had been able to talk through all this new assault of information.

[Hannah C.]

I have had serious conversations with other freshmen, but they're not usually that intellectual. They have been, but that's not really a usual thing.

However, I have one friend who's a senior and knows some grad students. I've had numerous intellectual conversations with the friend and several with some of the grad students. One of the grad students is more than willing to help explain things like philosophy (Plato's Republic) and Milton, which is a huge blessing as they're not always the most comprehensive of books....

[Michelle in MO]

rarely connected with anyone there. There were a few intellectual conversations I had, but I honestly think that the most stimulating intellectual conversations I've had have been with my husband! We love to discuss politics, religion, etc., and do so frequently.

[Stacy in NJ]

I had alot of conversations that at the time I considered "intellectual". I cringe now to think of them. Intellectual is relative.

[EKS]

All the time.

[Gwen in VA]

EKS --

Wow! All the time! Were you at a small LAC?

I guess I'm frustrated by my son's reluctance to go to a prestigious LAC because he feels there will be few "intellectual' conversations (based on obviously very little experience). Instead, he feels he will find more at a 18,000-student state U.

[Cadam]

Frequently. Usually with one or two floor-mates at a time. Mostly in the middle of the night. We got into great discussions about philosophy, religion, all kinds of wonderful things.

[Valerie(TX)]

I went to a bible college for two years as a music ed major (had only planned to be there one year, but loved it so much I stayed for two) then transferred to a LAC to finish a biochem degree in three more years.

While, in general, there was a much more intellectual atmosphere at Wheaton--by which I mean a willingness to really examine and ponder life's questions and to make deeply-considered choices in life--in reality, for my situation, finding the time to have those conversations at W was nigh unto impossible.

Because I crammed a boichemistry major (nearly a double major) into three years, I rarely had time to breathe. The ability to have really good conversations came in my last 3 semesters as I became part of a small family group of about 6 students. Because we ate most of our meals together, that gave us more time talk. Beyond that, we were all studying, living in the labs, doing research and all the intense pre-med track stuff, so there wasn't much time for deep discussions. The classes that prompted the best discussions were not the general philosophy and ethics classes but my allied healthcare class (discussing third world issues, ethics of medicine, access, etc.), anthropology, and art survey. :)

Here's what I would sum up for Gwen's son--

-I believe the LAC would be a fantastic place for intellectual conversations. My experience being at and around the 4-yr. university that ds is attending (dual credit this year, freshman in the fall) is that the overwhelming focus of the university is job preparation, the work world, career readiness, internships, corporate partnerships. Yuck. I wish all college students had time to think and to explore before the full-time work world is thrust upon them.

-To some extent, the availability of folks to have conversations is influenced by where they live. How many of the students at the LAC and at the large univ. will reside on/near campus? A campus made up mostly of commuters students won't have nearly the oportunities.

-He will hold the key to finding whatever he wants by taking time, seeking out people, put himself in the right frame of mind. It is up to him. He can probably seek it out at either place.

HTH


P.S. Is there any way he could travel to the university and to the LAC before the end of the semester and simply hang out on each campus, attend several classes, shadow a student, and bunk in the most likely dorm for a couple of days?

[Gwen in VA]

Valerie -- Thank you so much for pointing out that's to some extent the burden is on ds for seeking out people and opportunities.

Thanks for the words of wisdom!

[Eliana]

My question -- did you have any "intellectually-stimulating conversations" at college?


Almost constantly. Since it was a discussion-based Great Books school, I guess that makes sense.... but impassioned intellectual conversations sprang out of *everything*. Although St John's is a very small school, I think it was more a matter of intellectual atmosphere than the size of the school.

[Valerie(TX)]

;)

[CleoQc]

I was an engineering student, so apart from discussing the technical aspects of successful and less successful pranks, there was little intellectual conversations.

But some great pranks! :lol:

How does one fill a room with stuff/junk so much that the door to the room (that needs to be pushed in) can no longer open? And no one should be left inside the room. You need to get out, and get the junk to fall in so the open space behind the door can be completely filled. :lol: