I think my friend may need help, but . . . WWYD

[Kris]

A neighbor and I were very good friends before her husband died. Her husband was my husband's best friend -- they were like brothers, and the four of us were very close.

While he was alive, he kept the problems with their adult kids under control. The kids wanted to live with them and be taken care of (no jobs, no responsibilities -- just live there with *their* kids). They both told me they moved down here to put some distance between themselves and the kids, who lived 500 miles or so away. There have been constant issues with driving tickets, drugs, bad checks -- they've both spent time in prison.

There were constant problems between the two of them because Mom would send money to the kids for bail money, phone bills and what not, and then my friends couldn't pay their own bills (she's retired and he was on disability after the wind blew him off a house he was working on -- he was pretty messed up.)

He died suddenly and unexpectedly three years ago yesterday -- neither of them was over 50. It was a shock to all of us.

The kids came down for the funeral -- and never left. They stayed because they "had to take care of Mom." (If there's one woman I know who doesn't need taking care of, it's her.) There aren't too many good jobs around here, but they did get some here and there, but didn't keep them very long, usually getting fired for showing up late or not showing up at all.

The son brought a girlfriend that he fought with all the time. She ended up getting pregnant and had the baby here, then went home to Mom after a fight. He went after her and stayed there for awhile until getting arrested (again) for drugs. He was constantly getting busted for driving without a license. This is a small town and they all new he didn't have one, so as soon as they saw him, they pulled him over. I often wondered if he ever actually made enough to pay those tickets, let alone contribute to the household.

The daughter brought her boyfriend and her two kids.

One of my friends "rules" was no dogs in the house, but that soon went by the wayside and now they have so many dogs I can't keep up. They keep picking up dogs and the yard is full of them -- and they aren't friendly, either.

She used to come down here almost every day to complain about how things were at home. After about a year of that, I couldn't listen to it anymore. I tried to be a "good friend" and let her vent and complain. But we never got to talk about anything else anymore and about five or ten minutes after she got here, the phone would ring with someone looking for her -- come home now. I know she was coming down to get away from the chaos for awhile, but it just followed her down here. They'd either phone or just show up, and then any chance of just dishing was out the window.

She was complaining about it one day when I just said, "Well, you're the only one who can do anything about it." I know that's not what she wanted to hear -- actually, she didn't want to hear anything. I know that. She just wanted to vent. So she didn't come down to visit anymore.

I tried to go up to visit her a few times, but gave up. You had to run the gauntlet of dogs just to get into the house, and then you couldn't have a conversation with her with all the fighting and screaming and her kids and grandkids constantly interrupting the conversation. So I didn't go up to visit anymore.

We used to go places and go shopping together, but I quit doing that. It would have been nice to share the gas and have the company, since "town" is a 75 mile or so round trip, but she never seemed to bring her money with her and I couldn't afford groceries for both of us. And I found out pretty quickly that she didn't pay back what I did loan her, so it was easier just not to go.

Besides that, she always wanted to bring her granddaughter with her (she's about 13 now). And everything revolves around her -- she insists on it. The way she talks to my friend sets my teeth on edge. She doesn't ask, she demands, and whines and screams, so she gets what she wants because they're trying to keep her quiet.

She'll yell "GET OFF THE COMPUTER NOW! I WANT IT!" -- "I DON'T WANT TO EAT THAT! FIX ME SOMETHING ELSE!" and my friend will just smile and say, "Okay!" in her sweet little voice.

The granddaughter literally runs the house.

And before anyone jumps in with "maybe the child has hidden issues" -- she doesn't. The grandson does -- he has all kinds of issues -- so many I can't even remember all of them. He comes down here almost every day (they are homeschooling now, too) and he manages just fine for the most part. And even though he has ADHD and I don't know what else, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if one of his biggest problems is that his sister always "wins" over him and he's just kind of taking up space up there. My friend makes no secret of the fact that the granddaughter is her favorite. They all know it.

The granddaughter has been spoiled just like the kids were.

Okay --

So a month or so ago the daughter and her boyfriend had a big fight and he left. He went back home to *his* mother -- she drove down to pick him up. I guess they worked things out on the phone, and about two weeks ago she went up to get him. I don't know what's going on, but she hasn't come back.

They only had one car, so my friend's been up there, as far as I can tell, all this time with no car.

I'm wanting to call her and see if she needs anything -- like a run to the store. But I'm hesitating because of the money issues and I'm afraid the grandkids would insist on coming with us. I've done this before and it's chaos in the car, in the store, anywhere we go. Aside from the social issues, I just can't drive with a circus in the back seat.

There's a slim chance the girl wouldn't want to go, as she's tried to pull her tricks on me and it hasn't worked.

I could say, "I'll take you, but not the kids" but I wouldn't want to hear that, either. I mean, love me, love my kids -- I get that.

So -- what would you do?

[Josie]

I would pray for her. I would tell her I love her. I would have a nice and calm conversation with her about her situation. I would let her know that I am their for her. Then I would put the ball in her court because, like you said, she is the only one who can change this. Oh, I would then pray some more.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

but, she is an enabler. It's so hard to not be able to put down healthy boundaries, I've been there. It's freeing when you know that it's okay to not be everyone's doormat and that it's healthier for others for you to say no and learn to live in boundaries.

The only thing I can see you being able to do is just what you've been doing. Be there for her. She isn't obviously ready or able to make the tough choices.

As far as helping her out with groceries, you can call her and tell her that you are going to the store, you would be glad to come up to her house and pick up a list and her money and get her groceries and other things for her and run them by after you return. You can help her, but you need to maintain those boundaries for yourself and, financially, for your family as well.

Good luck. This is a tough situation.

[Soph the vet]

Your friend needs to set some serious boundaries with her kids. I have a fifty year old sister who still drives my mom crazy with financial issues so I have observed a little of what you are dealing with. It is actually the more compassionate thing to do to say to the kids "I love you so much that I cannot possibly allow you to go on taking advantage of me and my generosity any longer" and then set strict boundaries on when they can visit, how much she can help them or not, how the grandkids are to address her, etc. etc. She's not going to be around forever to clean up their messes KWIM. Hindsight is 20/20 I realize and they should've been given more discipline and responsibilities as kids. It is much harder to change an adult. My mom has had to totally remove herself from my sister's life at times but it has helped both of them to grow and become less co-dependent. I would tell your friend that you will be there for her and that you would appreciate to see her without the kids or grandkids. A real friend will understand if you sit down and have a heart to heart with her. She may not even be aware of how crazy her situation is.

[elegantlion]

It sounds like she never had time to mourn the loss of her husband. She may feel like part of her ended and she is just "stuck" with the rements that she can't hold together.

I wouldn't give up on her, you may the only sane part of her life left. I would talk to her and ask if she is happy that way, then leave it at that. Although she is enabling she also sounds just lost.

Just my .02, YMMV

[Kris]

Thank you for the feedback, ladies. As it turns out, she must have received my "vibes" because she called me yesterday needing a ride to the bank/post office. She said they "stocked up" before the daughter left, so she didn't need a trip to the grocery store.

She looks awful. I can't believe how much weight she's lost and how much she's aged just since the last time I saw her. She's so depressed, she can hardly sit up. She's obviously simply overwhelmed (we've had a lot of bad weather here the last two months and our houses are showing their defects). The granddaughter spent the trip complaining about how hard things are for her with my friend constantly apologizing to her.

It was only an hour, so I managed to keep my thoughts to myself, though I did ask her how much weight she's lost. She said, "Oh, have I?" There's not much of her left -- mind or body. If they called me tomorrow to tell me she's had a heart attack, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Cadam]

Any chance a very frank conversation along the lines of "I miss you, the real you and what would your dh think of this?" might light a fire under her at least long enough to get those kids out of her house?

You know, if my dh's best friend sat me down and told me he was concerned for me, that he wanted to help and what he thought my dh would want from him in a situation like this; I would listen. If she won't listen to you maybe she will listen to your dh. He was her husband's best friend and there is something to that.

[Kris]

Hi, Christina -- Unfortunately, we've both tried to do that and failed miserably. She just nodded and said, "I know" but nothing changed. She really has rose colored glasses on when it comes to her kids and grandkids and while, in general, I think blood is thicker than water, there comes a time when you have to put your foot down when you're being taken advantage of.

Over the years, everything that the kids have done, according to her, has been someone else's fault. They aren't responsible for anything they do.

I don't think she's afraid of being alone -- at least she never was before. I've wondered about that a lot, but I really don't think that's it.

I know her adult children have really bad tempers and before her husband died I was a reluctant witness to many blow ups. One time, in particular, when she told her daughter "What you need to do is stay home and take care of your kids." They would go off for months at a time, leaving the grandkids with her. The daughter threw a total fit and my friend just shut down. So, frankly, I think it's just that she doesn't want them yelling at her.

After her husband died, his family jumped in to help her, but they've all given up, too. She needed a car, they brought her a car, her son took it out and trashed it and then totaled it. When she needed another car, she called her husband's brothers, but that well was dry. She complained to me that they wouldn't help her. She just doesn't "get" that other people aren't willing to indulge her kids like she does, I guess.

I know I've made this sound pretty bad, but believe me, I've left out a lot of details and it's even worse than it sounds here. It's been a never ending saga for the past three years. After seeing her yesterday, I'm literally sick. But she won't listen to us, or anyone else.