Need help interpreting WISC-IV scores and how to best help my DD10

[Sandi_NC]

Hi all,

I need some help in interpreting my dd's test scores and what this all might mean. I took her for a psychoeducational evaluation a few weeks ago because we suspected she had some learning challenges/disabilities. She has always been homeschooled but has always struggled in one way or another. When she was 3 or 4 yrs old, we had her evaluated and she participated in a pre-k therapy program where she received speech, OT and PT. There was concern back then that she might have CAPD but it was never officially diagnosed. Fast forward several years (and a move from FL to NC) and here we are.

These are her WISC-IV scores:

Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) - 85 Low Avg
Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) - 90 Avg
Working Memory Index (WMI) - 83 Low Avg
Processing Speed Index (PSI) - 112 High Avg
Full Scale IQ - 88 Low Avg

Within her PSI, she did much better on the Symbol Search (SS = 14), than she did on the Coding (SS=10) Her ability to process visual material quickly is an ability she performs well as compared to her verbal and nonverbal reasoning ability.

Her general cognitive ability is in the low average range, her general verbal comprehension abilities were in the low average range and her general perceptual reasoning abilities were in the average range.

(I have all her subtest scores if those would be helpful)

Then she took the Woodcock Johnson ~ I have those scores but the only thing I can make sense out of are the grade equivalents. She does well in math, but was determined to have significant learning disabilities in reading comprehension and writing expression. She was borderline for a disability in basic reading skills (13 pts, with 15 pts being the cutoff)

He said she was borderline ADHD (Predominantly Inattentive) with 6 of 9 markers, but also borderline ADHD (Hyperactive/Impulsive) with 6 of 9 markers but thinks that her inattentiveness is more or less related to her learning difficulties and if we can figure out how to better help her, things might settle down.

She was also given the Intergrated Visual and Auditory Performance Test. Her Full Scale Response Control Quotient was 83 which is considered mildly impaired. Her Full Scale Attention Quotient was 105 which is average. Her Combined Sustained Attn. Scale was 108, which is average.

He recommended I look into a 'whole word approach' or Linda Mood Bell. Just as we were leaving he basically said to try doing the complete opposite of whatever I had been doing and see if that works. :confused:

Is there some way to interpret her scores so that I can understand *where* exactly she needs help? (other than *everywhere* LOL)

Thanks so much!
Sandi

[KarenAnne]

It's strange -- and distressing -- that you walked away with so little helpfulness about a specific course of action and a clear understanding of what all the subscores mean. My daughter's neuropsychological evaluation included a full two hours of post-test discussion with me, going through item by item, plus nearly 20 pages of written explanation and a detailed plan for the future. it was invaluable.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of useful information from people here, but I wonder if you could also take the results to someone else, either a psychologist or a tutor who specializes in working with LD kids, and have them go through it with you? I'd say go back to the person who administered the test, but I have this sinking feeling it wouldn't be all that helpful given what you write about your discussions so far... that would be an option too, though. Did your understanding of the evaluation include post-test discussion and advice? If it did, say that need has not yet been met fully and ask for more specifics. The details and implications of full evaluation are an awful lot to take in in one go.

[Sandi_NC]

Hi Karen,

I think I wasn't given as much because I'm a homeschooler ~ that is just my impression. He commented to me that "If I had her in public school they would have tested her for LD's long ago and she would be set up in special classes and have an IEP in place." His only advice was to do the opposite of what I was doing and network within my hs'ing circle for help with curriculum questions. I was not at all impressed.

We met for about 30 mins after all her testing was completed (after having to go back for a 2nd visit because they "forgot" to give her a copmuter type test the first time - not related to the WISC or WCJ). He showed me her scores, said that he believes she has severe LD's in reading comp. and writing expression but borderline ADHD and he would send me my report within a week. I received a 5 pg report yesterday with her results and that was it.

I am trying to find someone locally who can help me ~ I live in a small town and we don't have a Dr. locally who handles this type of stuff. I traveled to another town for her testing and to meet with this Dr.

I'm very discouraged but I know there are answers out there ~ I figured it will just take me a little longer to find them! LOL

[KarenAnne]

So was this person somebody connected with the school district? Or independent? If it was a school district person, I'd go on to find someone in private practice or connected with a children's hospital. Ask your pediatrician for recommendations -- get several, so you can talk to them before getting into anything further and avoid getting someone who treats you as shabbily as this first person seems to have done. Some people -- I've run into several of them associated with school districts, but I'm sure there are also others out there in private practice too -- think parents know nothing, understand nothing, and have no business doing what "experts" should take care of (i.e. education). You just have to write them off, unfortunately. In my opinion, this person was very unprofessional to let his opinions of homeschooling interfere with his professional obligation to make sure you understood your daughter's results and their implications, and to also make sure you had suggestions about how to best help her. That he did not, that he indirectly punished your daughter and you by his response, is just downright pathetic.

[Laurie4b]

Hi all,

I need some help in interpreting my dd's test scores and what this all might mean. I took her for a psychoeducational evaluation a few weeks ago because we suspected she had some learning challenges/disabilities. She has always been homeschooled but has always struggled in one way or another. When she was 3 or 4 yrs old, we had her evaluated and she participated in a pre-k therapy program where she received speech, OT and PT. There was concern back then that she might have CAPD but it was never officially diagnosed. Fast forward several years (and a move from FL to NC) and here we are.

These are her WISC-IV scores:

Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) - 85 Low Avg
Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) - 90 Avg
Working Memory Index (WMI) - 83 Low Avg
Processing Speed Index (PSI) - 112 High Avg
Full Scale IQ - 88 Low Avg

Within her PSI, she did much better on the Symbol Search (SS = 14), than she did on the Coding (SS=10) Her ability to process visual material quickly is an ability she performs well as compared to her verbal and nonverbal reasoning ability.

Her general cognitive ability is in the low average range, her general verbal comprehension abilities were in the low average range and her general perceptual reasoning abilities were in the average range.

(I have all her subtest scores if those would be helpful)

Then she took the Woodcock Johnson ~ I have those scores but the only thing I can make sense out of are the grade equivalents. She does well in math, but was determined to have significant learning disabilities in reading comprehension and writing expression. She was borderline for a disability in basic reading skills (13 pts, with 15 pts being the cutoff) So the standard score for her broad reading was 75?

He said she was borderline ADHD (Predominantly Inattentive) with 6 of 9 markers, but also borderline ADHD (Hyperactive/Impulsive) with 6 of 9 markers but thinks that her inattentiveness is more or less related to her learning difficulties and if we can figure out how to better help her, things might settle down. Working memory and processing speed are typically lower than other scores in ADD. It's curious to me that the processing speed is her highest score. It indicates that she is good combining visual input with motor output and that she can remember visual stimuli

She was also given the Intergrated Visual and Auditory Performance Test. Her Full Scale Response Control Quotient was 83 which is considered mildly impaired. Her Full Scale Attention Quotient was 105 which is average. Her Combined Sustained Attn. Scale was 108, which is average. Not familiar with these.

He recommended I look into a 'whole word approach' or Linda Mood Bell. Just as we were leaving he basically said to try doing the complete opposite of whatever I had been doing and see if that works. :confused:

Is there some way to interpret her scores so that I can understand *where* exactly she needs help? (other than *everywhere* LOL)

Thanks so much!
Sandi

If you could PM me the standard scores for the Woodcock Johnson and the subtest scores, that would be helpful.

In general (without seeing those first), an IQ score in the 80's is indicative of a person needing repetition and review to move forward. It can seem like you're wasting time and not getting ahead, but you're really not; if you move forward without the repetition and review, you can arrive at the place where she's forgotten everything and you have to start over. So my starting advice would be to either create that kind of repetition and review yourself or look for that in curricula you choose. (Rod and Staff, for instance, has good built in repetition and review in math. )

Also, it's likely that the more concrete you can make something, the better she will grasp it. Whenever possible (math, science, social studies) let her first experience with a new concept be hands on, and her later experiences incorporate concrete visual representation. Take that into account, too, in choosing curricula.

I can say more once I see where the subtest scores broke down. How old is she? How social is she? What does she like to do for fun? What do you think her strengths are?

[Sandi_NC]

if you move forward without the repetition and review, you can arrive at the place where she's forgotten everything and you have to start over.

THAT is definitely Anna. Maybe she is not getting enough review and repetition, though I feel that is often *all* that we do - review and repeat. She is also very head strong in that she will get tired of repeating something and start jumping ahead (with or without me LOL) and then it's like she hits a brick wall and nothing makes sense to her anymore so we go back to the beginning.


I can say more once I see where the subtest scores broke down. How old is she? How social is she? What does she like to do for fun? What do you think her strengths are?

I will PM you with her scores ~ thank you *so* much for that offer. She is newly 10 (March b-day) ~ she was adopted from overseas when she was 10 months old. In many regards she has always been delayed and learning in any way or form has always been a struggle for her.

For fun she likes to play outside with our chickens. LOL She likes to play with her stuffed animals and will spend time in her room creating her own little plays or activities - often with her brother or sister. Sometimes she will go through spurts where she will take a notebook and doodle or write down all the words that she can remember and draw pictures to match them. If she is not doing that, she spends the rest of her time trying to annoy and pick on her siblings to get attention.

For her strengths ~ she is persistent. She will keep at something until she figures it out even if she never figures it out the "correct" way. And she *wants* to learn. That is definitely a strength. :001_smile: She will volunteer to help out wherever it's needed - and will even do a job that is someone else's responsibility (like feed the cats even though it's her sister's job).

I hope that helps!

[Donna A.]

So my starting advice would be to either create that kind of repetition and review yourself or look for that in curricula you choose. (Rod and Staff, for instance, has good built in repetition and review in math. )

Also, it's likely that the more concrete you can make something, the better she will grasp it. Whenever possible (math, science, social studies) let her first experience with a new concept be hands on, and her later experiences incorporate concrete visual representation. Take that into account, too, in choosing curricula.


This sounds just like what works for my 7yod who's been diagnosed with Apraxia. While her speech has greatly improved thanks to a wonderful therapist at the children's hospital, it took a LOT of time. But she still has the same areas of weakness in the language arts (and even some behavior issues) that Sandi's dd has, so I'm watching this thread for advice to Sandi because I think what works for her dd might work for mine. I read once on an Apraxia loop or website that the Linda Mood Bell method works for Apraxics, so that definitely caught my attention, too. When I've experimented with different phonics programs, I've noticed that my girls seems to "get" the word pattern approach better than the word ladder approach. Based on that, Laurie (or anyone reading), what phonics/LA might be a good choice?

I don't mean to hijack the thread... I just think that Sandi and I have some similar problems, and therefore, could use some similar methods of resolution.

Oh, and my dd seems to grasp math concepts just fine. No problems there. I've used both Singapore and Saxon with her in math, though I've looked at R&S and have thought that would be a great choice, too. I think the combination hands-on and visual aspect of Singapore, and the repetition of Saxon have been a great mix.

Leap Frog videos for learning her letter sounds (finally, after several years of working on that!) and Signing Time videos both worked really well.

Continuing to :bigear:

[Laurie4b]

One thing that I think is critical with students with significant learning differences is to spend at least as much time developing their strengths than remediating their weaknesses. We tend to focus on weaknesses, and those do need to be remediated, but what will lead to their success in life is their strengths.

It's great that dd is persistent & wants to learn because those relate to work ethic in a way that will hold her in good stead! It appears from her processing scores that she is also relatively fast. Make sure that you introduce her to skills that are not academic in nature. Can she get really good at a housekeeping task? An organizing task? A yard work task? Can she assume all the pet care in your home and offer pet care to others as a job? Work on developing her skills at interacting with young children (too young to babysit, but you could offer to babysit with her and help her learn those skills if you don't have younger children.) Any of those types of tasks could lead to satisfying career goals. Keep looking for those and exposing her to things outside of academic achievement alone.

Also, I would try to develop her visual spatial skills. Her score on picture concepts plus her processing scores indicate that that set of skills might be developed into a further strength for her. Brainware Safari is a computer software program that develops these scores plus working memory (which she needs.) You can check with HOmeschool Buyers Coop to see whether they are still offering it for $50 or so. It is a one-time use license, so when she's finished, she's finished. Many games develop these skills as well: Rush Hour, Set, Chess, Checkers. I would have her do one thing per day to develop these skills which often don't show up in traditional academics.

In her reading, the Word Attack score is her highest and is commensurate with her verbal IQ, which is what you're looking for. Word Attack measures phonics skills by having kids pronounce nonsense words. So good job! It is somewhat higher than Your approach, which I assume has been phonetically based, has worked on that. I think some use of whole word instruction is probably a good idea. You will want to aim at her being able to read in a practical way to get around in the world. I have not used Linda Bell Mood, but if it uses visual cues of any type, that would probably work well for her. Linda Bell Mood is research based. I would pursue that information and make a decision from there.

What reading programs have you tried? I would stay away from rule-based instruction because she doesn't "get" concepts as well as concrete. You can still use something like Barton or Wilson, but rely on the repetition rather than the "rule" to carry the day. The multi-sensory nature of OG based programs should be a positive. But again, I'd check into Linda Bell Mood.

Read to her, lots and lots. Connect what you are reading to something concrete that she has experienced, etc.

Her highest math score was on math word problems (Applied problems). When given a real life situation (and most of these have a visual cue on the Woodcock Johnson), she is scoring in the average range--well above what she scores when just given abstract numbers on paper to perform addition, etc. (Computation). Again, this underscores the importance of having her learn in hands on ways, followed by visual, followed by abstract in math, science, etc. You can probably alleviate her objection to "too much review" by incorporating about 10 min. of review at the beginning of each lesson, using a variety of presentations (hands on, visual, abstract) and that will keep it feeling fresh.

For spelling, I would try the overteaching method I've used. It's been recently reposted on this board.

For writing, try both dictation (you can incorporate this into the spelling) and writing from pictures.

[Sandi_NC]

One thing that I think is critical with students with significant learning differences is to spend at least as much time developing their strengths than remediating their weaknesses. We tend to focus on weaknesses, and those do need to be remediated, but what will lead to their success in life is their strengths.

Thank you so much for the reminder! It's true that because she struggles so much, that I tend to hyper-focus on those areas because I want her to succeed and do better! But then I forget that there is this whole life of hers outside that small square of hs'ing.



Can she get really good at a housekeeping task? An organizing task? A yard work task? Can she assume all the pet care in your home and offer pet care to others as a job? Work on developing her skills at interacting with young children (too young to babysit, but you could offer to babysit with her and help her learn those skills if you don't have younger children.) Any of those types of tasks could lead to satisfying career goals. Keep looking for those and exposing her to things outside of academic achievement alone.


Anna loves to do stuff outside ~ and she pretty much takes care of all our chickens by herself. There are definitely more things she can do around here ... and she would love it. I just never think of those things! She loves to cook and that would be an area to absolutely explore with her.

In her reading, the Word Attack score is her highest and is commensurate with her verbal IQ, which is what you're looking for. Word Attack measures phonics skills by having kids pronounce nonsense words. So good job! It is somewhat higher than Your approach, which I assume has been phonetically based, has worked on that. I think some use of whole word instruction is probably a good idea.


That is good to know!

Yes, most of what I've done with her was originally phonetic based ~ we've tried a little bit of everything over the years. Right now she is working through ETC bk 3 and she *loves* that. I have Linda Mood Bell on my list of things to start researching this afternoon, along with other stuff. Right now I'm not really using anything specific because I don't know what to use. So we work through ETC together and then I have her read a book to me and we just work through the words as we come to them.



Again, this underscores the importance of having her learn in hands on ways, followed by visual, followed by abstract in math, science, etc. You can probably alleviate her objection to "too much review" by incorporating about 10 min. of review at the beginning of each lesson, using a variety of presentations (hands on, visual, abstract) and that will keep it feeling fresh.


This makes a lot of sense ~ thank you! She has spent time working through R&S and Horizons for math but I can already see where there are other programs that will be better suited to her.

I will also research the spelling/overteaching method you mentioned.

I've got my list going and I'm sure I will come up with more questions. ;)

Thank you again for all the help!

[Sandi_NC]

So would something like WWE and FLL work for her?

Or any other recommendations? I'm going to be overhauling her entire school, starting now since we school year round. She'll continue to do ETC because she loves it and considers it "fun" ~ but everything else will be a clean slate.

[Laurie4b]

FLL might be good because it's so orally based. I looked at WWE, but didn't choose it for my kids. They were older than it was written for, but it also wasn't quite what we were looking for.

I really think something very step-by-step is in order and think for her needs, it would be best to create it yourself as long as you are consistent each day. Dictation helps her with spelling, capitalization, and punctuation without having to think of the content. You can dictate different sentences each day until she gets a certain "rule" down pat. For helping her generate writing, I would really try the pictures because of the way her WISC scores are. Find some interesting pictures of people doing things. First, talk with her about the picture. Then write down what she says. Then dictate the sentence to her. Later, you can try with her doing it herself. Once she can write a simple sentence about the picture, have her add details. "The girl and boy are playing with the ball" moves to "Lily and Joshua are playing ball outside." Or "Lily said, "Good throw, Jonathan." You can also teach dialog as she plays with her stuffed animals. You could have her act out a story with them while you dictate. Then you dictate back the dialog. (or a piece of it--to teach use of quotations, etc.) Have her cook something and then for a writing assignment, have her write the steps, etc. If you do your own writing, you can more easily tie it to concrete things. That's what she's going to need.

[Laurie4b]

Yes, most of what I've done with her was originally phonetic based ~ we've tried a little bit of everything over the years. Right now she is working through ETC bk 3 and she *loves* that. I have Linda Mood Bell on my list of things to start researching this afternoon, along with other stuff. Right now I'm not really using anything specific because I don't know what to use. So we work through ETC together and then I have her read a book to me and we just work through the words as we come to them.



I would stick with ETC until you decide to switch to something else. The one thing I would warn against is trying a little bit of everything. Do your research, then pick something and stick with that method exactly for at least 6 months. Test her to see if she's gained, and if she has, stick with it. You can also do two methods simultaneously (like some whole words stuff plus a more structured phonics method.)