Opinions on Greek programs

[Gratia271]

I would like to get people's opinions on what some of the best Greek programs are for HS level work. What are your thoughts about Athenaze? Have any of you used it to teach yourself Greek?

[Ester Maria]

I cannot not argue for Athenaze when I see what kinds of materials exist on the market :), though I admit I disagree with Athenaze in some specific points (the typical issues of what's introduced when and which concepts I thought should be studied together and are not, so from my point of view Athenaze "overcomplicates" some things). I did use it, though, when combining my curriculum for the girls.

In short, go for it. My personal disagreement with it in some specifics doesn't mean it's not one of the better options out there.

[Gratia271]

Are there any other curricula you think more highly of or any other recommendations you could make?

Thanks!

[Quad Shot Academy]

I have never heard of Athenaze, but it did not get very good reviews on Amazon. My son is working through Hey Andrew (http://rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1271598737-100844&subject=15&category=5067) (4th grade and above start with book 3) and I will probably move him on to Mounce (http://www.amazon.com/Basics-Biblical-Grammar-William-Mounce/dp/0310250870/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271598497&sr=1-1) once he is done with that. I also have Elementary Greek (http://rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1271598737-100844&subject=15&category=5076), but it is too teacher intensive for me at the moment.

[Gratia271]

Thanks! I will check out Mounce. I have heard that Elementary Greek is quite teacher intensive.

[USDGAL]

Any suggestion out there for attic? The more the better, I would like o start looking though curriculum and we would prefer not o do Koine Greek. Ds would like to be able o read some books in their original Greek. have heard Homeric is too hard to start with but that Attic would be a good choice. Still trying to learn more.

Thanks.

Danielle

[Ester Maria]

Are there any other curricula you think more highly of or any other recommendations you could make?

Thanks!
Actually, anglophone-market wise, probably not. As with most of the things, I like making my own mix, but I've been thinking about your thread this morning and I had Athenaze next to me and speedily went through it trying to picture what would it be like if I used only that, whether I'd find it a good program for Greek, and I actually would (though I would certainly supplement it with an additional grammar + dictionary, as any language). :) It's a good program overall, they go to texts quite soon, but gradually, and grammar is very clear. Do you have it, or have you previewed it already?

@ USDGAL, and everyone else to whom it might be of interest - unless your goals are to learn specifically Koine for the sake of reading the NT in the orignal, learn 5th century BCE Attic Greek, that's the "standard Greek" (in lack of better expression) and the one from which you can easily build up later. Ionic, Homeric language, etc., can be approached without additional grammar study after Attic, and the differences aren't nearly as big as you might think, just learn the principles of grammar very well. Koine comes the easiest, anyone who studied Attic can read NT without any additional Greek study. At my school we used to read NT when we needed a break :D, and we studied Attic, NT was always famous for being the kind of Greek you can read prima vista (which was usually not the case with other texts, at least not in the first 4-5 years of studying).

I seriously recommend this site (http://www.pi-schools.gr/lessons/hellenic/) for anyone who speaks or can read passively Modern Greek. Lots of excellent resources for the Ancient one. If nothing else, even if you don't speak Modern, if you know Ancient, you can at least see if you could use the texts (that's what I do with some textbooks written in languages which I technically don't speak, or which the girls don't - if they have excellent choice of texts, commented or not, I add those to my own mix :lol:).

[Gratia271]

I have only previewed it.

[abbeyej]

You might appreciate these two threads from the Curriculum board...
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170508
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170535

I'm surprised to hear that some think Elementary Greek is teacher intensive. The text book is written directly to the student, and there's a workbook to be done. I suppose it might require teacher involvement at the very youngest age ranges, but for later elementary and middle, it should be pretty independent.

That said, if you're looking for a high school level program, I would probably go with Athenaze.

This year I had two (gifted) 6th graders work through all three levels of EG (possible because they have a strong Latin background already) in preparation for beginning Athenaze next fall. I'm not sure yet if we'll try to finish the complete first book or not next year... I may go more slowly and have them alternate with reading directly from the New Testament, which is a little easier, but still good practice.

[Gratia271]

Thanks, Abbey. I am looking for HS level. I think we are going to try Athenaze.

[Gratia271]

Actually, anglophone-market wise, probably not. As with most of the things, I like making my own mix, but I've been thinking about your thread this morning and I had Athenaze next to me and speedily went through it trying to picture what would it be like if I used only that, whether I'd find it a good program for Greek, and I actually would (though I would certainly supplement it with an additional grammar + dictionary, as any language). :) It's a good program overall, they go to texts quite soon, but gradually, and grammar is very clear. Do you have it, or have you previewed it already?I seriously recommend this site (http://www.pi-schools.gr/lessons/hellenic/) for anyone who speaks or can read passively Modern Greek. Lots of excellent resources for the Ancient one. If nothing else, even if you don't speak Modern, if you know Ancient, you can at least see if you could use the texts (that's what I do with some textbooks written in languages which I technically don't speak, or which the girls don't - if they have excellent choice of texts, commented or not, I add those to my own mix :lol:).

Which additional grammar and dictionary items would you recommend? In addition, what is the most efficient way to learn the alphabet?

[Gratia271]

:bigear:

[allearia]

I'd also love to hear! :bigear:

[Ester Maria]

I'm tempted to say "any". :D

Well, while not exactly "any", at the beginning and intermediate stages of learning any language the only thing that matters is that you have A grammar and A dictionary (rather than some specific THE grammar and THE dictionary ;)). Which course you use matters, but a grammar and a dictionary are a bit secondary until you've done all of the formal language study (once you go to texts, dictionary becomes crucial). It's really less important whether it's Oxford or Collins when you start, and it's often better not to use the "big" dictionaries (and then get frustrated and lost in them with all the lengthy explanations) as you've only started to study the language, but something smaller and more practical (of course, don't go to the other extreme and buy those waste-of-money "pocket dictionaries", try to find something of a medium size). Grammar needs to be thorough, in sense of covering all of it (with tables), but relatively simple and as straightforward as possible (typical grammars used in beginning courses in universities are good, try not to get something awfully complex and detailed as it will confuse you more than help you - Smyth is a good example, EXCELLENT grammar, but not for beginners). It's also useful to get mementos, and Greek verb tables (I think they published some book with all irregular verbs and all of their forms in all tenses) would be awesome to have next to you.

A few tips though.
DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, TRANSLITERATE Greek. It's one of those bad habits that it's better not to ever get in the first place. When learning to read, have next to you the alphabet, but do not write in Latin script over or next to the words in Greek how they would be transliterated. Also, use materials which DO NOT do it, i.e. who literally do it in first few pages and then nothing. Use dictionaries without it.
Learn alphabet by heart because you'll want to find quickly words in dictionary.
DO NOT buy any specific books only for the alphabet - those are WASTE OF MONEY. We learned alphabet in the school the way that the professor wrote it on blackboard (Greek letter, the name of it, Latin equivalent) and said "This is what you need to learn by heart for the next lesson." There should be NO drama over learning the alphabet and NO dragging the process of learning the alphabet onto weeks. Learn by heart, practice, practice. You'll mistake and need to "cheat" by watching at the alphabet sheet at the beginning a lot, but within a week or two, you should be comfortable with it, and within a few months you should be able to SKIM the script (skim quickly for information). That's why it's of utmost importance NOT to learn the alphabet through transliteration of any kind, and NOT to drag that process the way that those expensive waste-of-money books make you drag it.

Learn the diacritics and the rules of them RIGHT AWAY. As you master the alphabet, learn the quantities of syllables and rules of accentuation in Greek. If you don't learn it well right away, it'll complicate your life. When learning new words, from the very beginning, learn to write them in the full form (accented & with other diacritics if needed). ALWAYS write the full forms, and words written without all the diacritics properly are ZERO points on vocab/spelling/ANY tests (they count as misspelling, even if it's only about the type of accent or iota subscriptum).

Same thing for rules of contraction of vowels - the FIRST time you meet those, learn them ALL right away, it'll make your life a lot easier. Don't learn specific conjugations for -aw, -ow, -ew, just know the easy rules of contraction (which vowels when met with which "merge" and how).
Learn the verbs tithemi, hiemi, histemi, didomi IN ALL FORMS as you learn each tense of regular verbs. You NEED these four, and they tend to be problematic. Learn them very well.

I'll add more if I think of more. :)