Where does EPGY LAW 5 go? and MCT?

[Jill]

My ds, 8yo, has completed the 4th level in EPGY. The program has started him into level 5. When I realized this, I added MCT's Building Language and Rummy Roots on alternate days to slow it down a bit as his handwriting and output aren't really up to a 5th grade level, kwim?
I am wondering where level 5 goes in terms of writing and grammar. Does the prog start requiring any input in terms of original writing/typing? (I'm worried I'm missing something from EPGY but am not finding more when I login) Can I rely on it for the full grammar ed? Or shall I expand as I am thinking below?

The last month or so, I have been running ds back through HWOTs printing book 2 as a refresher (especially b, d, p and g!) but having him do more writing per day than last fall. For book reports, narrations or essay questions, yes, he still narrates things to me, I write them down, and he copies them. But I have noticed he can write better sentences when asked to create them on his own as part of his handwriting/vocab/spelling work so I'm thinking he is ready for a bit more workbook grammar work.

So of course I am looking at MCT again though I have looked at WWE and some other writing curric's I've found out about on the boards here - yet, MCT seems to be a good fit. Maybe not a great fit but better than the others. Sentence Island we've used and now Building Languages but should I pick up one of the Practice books? Island or Town? EPGY has started working on Paragraphs and topics with him. He is in level 5 in the strands below:

Strand 1: Parts of Speech

Strand 2: Sentence Structure

Strand 3: Sentence Composition

Strand 4: Paragraphs





And I have been comparing the samples from Practice Island and Practice Town and so help me I have no idea which to do because there's only one sample of each. EPGY hasn't done complete sentence analysis yet like MCT but has worked on more parts than are included in the Practice Island example. Recommends? And do either of these books require original output or do they just stick to analysis?

And if I pick up Music for the Hemispheres can I get by with just the Teacher's Manual as I could have with SI and BL?

Can you tell that I am trying to broaden out a bit for him?

As always, I appreciate your thoughts - they are always so helpful for me! - Jill

[RanchGirl]

I am wondering where level 5 goes in terms of writing and grammar. Does the prog start requiring any input in terms of original writing/typing?

One of my sons is using EPGY's LAW program. He finished level 5 and as far as I know, there was not anything that could be considered original writing. There is some sentence composition as far as moving words around on the screen to form proper sentences, pick the best topic sentence for this paragraph, etc. But there isn't any sort of writing a paper and having a teacher review it. EPGY has a separate RAW course that I believe is meant to cover the writing and literature portion of a full Language Arts program. There is a description of it on this page: http://epgy.stanford.edu/district/courses.html

My son also uses Classical Writing for spelling/writing and a bit of grammar. In my opinion, the full MCT program would be overkill on grammar since there is quite a bit already covered in LAW. But, as with everything, it depends on what works best for your child (mine really likes LAW and couldn't stand MCT when we looked at it). If MCT has a writing program, I am not familiar with it and couldn't offer an opinion there.

[Jill]

My son also uses Classical Writing for spelling/writing and a bit of grammar. In my opinion, the full MCT program would be overkill on grammar since there is quite a bit already covered in LAW. But, as with everything, it depends on what works best for your child (mine really likes LAW and couldn't stand MCT when we looked at it). If MCT has a writing program, I am not familiar with it and couldn't offer an opinion there.
I think that's a good point about the overkill particularly in light of the LAW not venturing into writing yet.
gah! it's just so tough cause I read through descriptions and see sample pages and never see anything that fits my ds's very out-of-synch-handwriting-stamina to grammar-ability ratio!
I just looked at Classical Writing again. I like some of it but looks fairly grammar intensive also and maybe even too much handwriting at this point? Do you winnow it back at all so you aren't duplicating too much of what is covered in LAW?

[RanchGirl]

EPGY's LAW is perfect for kids who aren't at the same grade level in handwriting! You might be fine with just that and good literature and discussing the literature, having him tell you the story and asking what he would change. Plus you are already doing some MCT aren't you? Personally, I would wait to add a writing component once he is further along in his handwriting skills unless he is asking for one.

I've been modifying CW. The grammar seems just right and we do some of the weekly writing projects as just dictation/narrative; some as written stories. He loves to read but hates to compose any original writing so this is working great for him. He is slowly starting to put more creative twists on his stories. I have IEW, Lightning Literature, and the Grammar-Land book for him to try out next year so we'll see how that goes. Other than LAW, my intention is to go fairly light on grammar until middle school (unless I see that he really needs more before then).

My younger guy isn't doing either CW or LAW, just reading a lot and the Critical Thinking Co Language Smarts workbooks, plus a handwriting program. That's been perfect for him. He'll probably start LAW next year or the year after.

There are so many options, I would just do the things your child is really into at this point and if anything is torture, put that away for now. There's plenty of time for that later! :)

By the way, is your son interested in learning to type? My kids are looooving Dance Mat Typing (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/). They still do their handwriting program but they do DMT in their spare time for fun. I would love for them to learn to type so they can type their own papers instead of me doing it for them!

[Jill]

EPGY's LAW is perfect for kids who aren't at the same grade level in handwriting! You might be fine with just that and good literature and discussing the literature, having him tell you the story and asking what he would change. Plus you are already doing some MCT aren't you? Personally, I would wait to add a writing component once he is further along in his handwriting skills unless he is asking for one.

Well, yes, LAW is great for the out of synch part. I agree. That's the same reason we're doing it. But ds enjoys the MCT "Building Language" book and the writing exercises therein so I guess I'm looking for more of the same. Similes and short poems seem just about right for him but particularly at the behest of the BL book. So if some of the other MCT books on his level had more of those little exercises.... I should go back to Grammar Island (that's the one we have, NOT Sentence Island... my brain!) and see if I missed something as I didn't have him doing little exercises like that when we went through it.


There are so many options, I would just do the things your child is really into at this point and if anything is torture, put that away for now. There's plenty of time for that later! :)Too true. I'm also considering the HWOT cursive for no other reason than just to keep the hand muscles going and practicing. Also, have decided that I can work on this decision through the summer and design our writing program - whatever it may be - with the intent to start next fall.

By the way, is your son interested in learning to type? My kids are looooving Dance Mat Typing (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/). They still do their handwriting program but they do DMT in their spare time for fun. I would love for them to learn to type so they can type their own papers instead of me doing it for them!I like DanceMatTyping. But he would actually rather do handwriting, even though it's a struggle sometimes, rather than a typing prog.