Phonics for a child who is already reading well?

[LemonPie]

Hi all
I'm new here, new to HSing and I hope this is the right forum for this question. :D

My daughter will be 5 in June and is reading well. I'd guess at about a 3rd grade level. My first grade son (who will be HSed this coming fall) informed me that his teacher is going to pull the 4th grade readers out for him next week when he's back from Spring Break, and my daughter is reading nearly as well as he is. That's my 'yardstick', LOL.

She taught herself to read. We did all the typical stuff--read a lot, sang the alphabet, talked about the sounds letters make, etc. Several weeks ago she spontaneously began sounding things out and reading and has since progressed with it at warp speed.

I'm trying to decide if I should do a phonics program with her. She seems to have an innate sense about phonics as it is. . . For example, she automatically uses the long vowel sound when there is a silent 'e' on the end of a word, even though we've never formally taught her that and I don't know that she could even verbalize to me why she does that. Or she realizes that the 'gh' in 'night' is silent and transfers that to other words with similar format.

So is it worth it to go over the 'rules' with her? Will it help her with future reading/spelling? And if so, any program recommendations?

[dansamy]

I think it's worth it. When I was a child, I entered school in first grade reading on a 5th/6th grade level. Phonics were taught and I think it strengthened my reading skills even further. I intend to remediate my own children in phonics next year even though they all read above grade level. (They were not taught phonics, but some other goofy nonsense the school thinks was appropriate.)

[tracymirko]

My dd just turned 5yo, and we were doing phonics in the fall. I felt that it was just busy work for her, because her reading level was soaring way past what she was doing with phonics. So we turned our efforts toward phonics from a spelling perspective. I was really surprised to see that spelling and reading were such separate skills. She spells quite well for her age, but it is so much harder than reading. For her, it is an enjoyable challenge, we will continue to do it.

We are using Spelling Workout, but if I were to do it over again, I would look for a spelling program that was less writing intensive.

Tracy

[Gratia271]

All of mine read spontaneously at young ages. I went through Phonics Pathways with them anyway, and it took practically no time because they too had an innate sense about it. I also read quite early, and I still recall being "taught" phonics at my private kindergarten.

[Misty]

My daughter began reading spontaneously (without phonics instruction) at age 3.. She was reading meaty chapter books by age 5. By age 7 she was at the junior high level for reading level, reading comprehension, and spelling (according to testing).

I never did do phonics with her. She also has never had a spelling lesson.. She sort of has a photographic memory for words. She recently won a spelling bee and is a whiz at Scrabble and anything word-related. She is 12 now and is still an obsessive reader at the adult level and she also writes books/novels obsessively. I have never seen her misspell a word or struggle to sound out a word.

I do not regret not ever doing phonics or spelling with her. She is extremely advanced in this area and our time is better spent on other subjects.

Hope this helps.

[KarenAnne]

My daughter was reading before it occurred to me to start phonics with her. We went through the alphabet, focusing on lower case letters through games. While she enjoyed the activities and games a lot, I am certain I didn't teach her anything whatever. She was adamantly uninterested in doing further phonics work, so I stopped.

Only later, when she had terrible difficulty with the physical act of writing and spelling, did we do anything at all resembling more phonics work, and that was very brief as she made it clear she was not a phonetic speller.

[Kalah]

I regret not doing a phonics program with my spontaneous reader. He was reading at a 4th grade level by 4 so I figured he didn't need phonics training. Well....his spelling is terrible. I'm using Phonics Pathways with my younger son (who is on track with learning how to read) and glad he's getting those spelling rules at the same time.

[mlktwins]

My 4 year old is a spontaneous reader -- he's reading at a 4th grade level. I'm still planning to do phonics with him for K next year using OPGTR and ETC. I'm expecting him to move through it very quickly, but I don't want him to miss anything along the way.

Mendy

[Amber in AUS]

My DD is an excellent reader and we are using AAS to teach all of the phonics rules. We tried ETC it wasn't a hit. I do think it is important to teach phonics even if the child is reading well.

[Staceyshoe]

My son is very early reader who was self-taught also. He reads using a combination of phonetics and sight reading. His spelling is approximately 5 grade levels below his reading level, and I am planning to use AAS as a way to teach phonics because I do think it will be helpful for him to know the rules. He needs structure to learn and will often try to figure out the "rules" for why something works the way it does. Since he's never been taught phonics, I think that framework will be helpful for him given his learning style. Because his reading is so advanced, I don't think he would tolerate a phonics program geared toward reading, so AAS is a nice fit for us.

[LemonPie]

What is AAS? I don't see it in the 'abbreviation sticky'.

[Misty]

What is AAS? I don't see it in the 'abbreviation sticky'.

All About Spelling http://www.all-about-spelling.com

[LemonPie]

Thank you!

[Dinsfamily]

I have a 6yo reading at a 4th grade level and a 3yo at about a 2nd grade level. I've been using Spell to Write and Read with my oldest this year. It has been great to teach him the rules through spelling so he hasn't getting bored in the reading department. It's a great way to go for an early reader because I feel like he's getting a complete picture without doing work that's too easy. I'm also adding Sonlight readers (plus extra library books) separate from our spelling program.

I plan on doing the same thing with my 3yo when he's 5. I'll let him progress naturally in his reading while focusing on writing and spelling.

[skaterbabs]

Dot taught herself to read at 3 1/2 using starfall.com and Between the Lions. I bought OPG last year intending on making certain she had a firm grasp of phonics, just in case she'd missed anything. It was an utter failure - she was offended at the thought of being taught how to read. "I already KNOW how to read, Mommy!" We started CLE LA this year and they present the phonics rules as SPELLING. She's done very well with that approach.

[rowan25]

Dot taught herself to read at 3 1/2 using starfall.com and Between the Lions. I bought OPG last year intending on making certain she had a firm grasp of phonics, just in case she'd missed anything. It was an utter failure - she was offended at the thought of being taught how to read. "I already KNOW how to read, Mommy!" We started CLE LA this year and they present the phonics rules as SPELLING. She's done very well with that approach.
That may just be the approach I need with mine! Thank you!!!

[StartingOver]

I am on my second early reader, and thinking I might have a 3rd soon. I do phonics anyway, I think it is important. With my son we are doing OPGTR, and will do AAS afterwards. I have the same plans for my daughter.

[TracyP]

I'll add another vote for AAS. I am using it with my 4yo. It makes me confident that he won't have gaps and I can see that it makes him *think* about the sounds. AAS can also be done almost completely with tiles so you don't HAVE TO do any writing if that is an issue.

[priscilla]

I definitely would not skip phonics at all IMHO. It is essential for spelling and for advanced reading IMO.



My son is an advanced reader and has been since Kindergarten. I did phonics with him (and continue to) and used it in way to re-enforce spelling too:)

[Jewel]

I am still teaching phonic skills to my 6dd (almost 7) even though she is reading The Hobbit to me. She hates it though when I slow her down if she has misread a new word. She is reading the book well yet it has proven to be a challenge (which is good) and one she is proud of. I am not sure how long she will continue to read from it. She's on page 40 or so.

[MovingMomma]

Count me as another vote for AAS! We used Phonics Pathways, but just couldn't keep going when her reading ability took off.

[crazyforlatin]

My almost 5-year old also is reading chapter books, like Chronicles of Narnia. I used Alpha-Phonics when she was 3, but after reading through this forum, I'm planning to continue teaching her phonics with All About Spelling, which I only heard about through this forum. However, which level should I buy? Do I start from Level 1? And, I would be curious to know why AAS was chosen over Spelling Power and Spelling Workout or why it wasn't. And I would like to know why we shouldn't skip spelling and move straight to vocabulary.

[Donna]

Whether or not to do phonics instruction depends on the child. I did phonics instruction with my oldest to teach him to read and he is my worst speller. I remember hating phonics when I was in the primary grades in school because it seemed like the most boring thing to do since I was already reading well. My dd began reading fluently at around a 3rd grade level at 3.5yo without instruction. I never did phonics with her. We read together all the time for the next couple years and I'd ask her questions on what she had read.

When she was 6yo she began doing Spelling Power which has word lists based on phonics rules. She tested into what they call 3rd grade for the spelling lists, quickly worked through that level and the next, then stopped for the next 6 months. This year (7yo) she tested into their 7th grade level. She is a natural speller and seems to have a photographic memory for words so once she's seen it spelled, I have never seen her spell a word incorrectly. I tend to do the spelling program with her through 2 levels then leave it for other things the rest of the year and that works well for her. Spelling is not an area of need.

As far as reading, last year at 6yo, I had a reading specialist assess her. Her decoding skills were above a 12th grade level and reading comprehension at a 7th grade level. She is great at retelling what she just read but the questions she missed were those requiring inferencing skills and life experience (comparing or requiring a broader knowledge base). So, I focus on her higher level thinking skills when she is reading. ("Suppose the Wolf's an Octopus" type questions)

[Nan in Mass]

We waited until my son was writing and then did Spelling Workout for spelling, which covers phonics. It must have worked because he could read Latin without knowing the words ahead of time.

[tracymirko]

I would be curious to know why AAS was chosen over Spelling Power and Spelling Workout or why it wasn't. And I would like to know why we shouldn't skip spelling and move straight to vocabulary.

My 5yo is just finishing SWO Level A. I would not recommend it for one so young, because it is very writing intenstive. We started to do it orally, but this is not the best way to handle the lessons. Another reason that I don't like SWO is that it focuses more on writing than on spelling (at least at this level). Each lesson is 4 pages long. The first page is reading. The second page is mostly tracing the words. The last page focuses on editing--finding spelling, capitalization and punctuation errors--and asks the child to write sentences using their spelling words. Consequently, that leaves just one page of four that is really devoted to spelling.

Since dd is doing well on her spelling tests, I am not going to change programs until we complete what we have here already. I will look into Spelling Power, since that program only works on words that the child cannot already spell. AAS also sounds like a good program.

As for spelling vs. phonics and vocabulary, realize that these are all separate skills. A natural reader will not necessarily be a natural speller. I think at 5yo, the child should be studying phonics in some way. I chose to do spelling with my dd, because her reading was so far ahead of what we were doing with phonics. So I opted for a phonics-based spelling curriculum instead. Vocabulary, I think can be done at any age, as long as you make your study age-appropriate. I don't think that a young child needs to be bogged down in a formal program. When we do vocabulary, we read a book and pick out words dd doesn't know. After a while, she began to do this on her own. We post those words on a bulletin board, and we practice using them in real life.

Tracy

[Old Dominion Heather]

I did get my son to do the last half of Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading and I am so glad I did. It helped him get past the chapter book hump when he was ready for reading on that level. He was fine with Magic Tree House type books at 5, but after we did the phonics program, he was reading anything he wanted; Milne, Lewis, Tolkien, etc...

[crazyforlatin]

My 5yo is just finishing SWO Level A. I would not recommend it for one so young, because it is very writing intenstive. We started to do it orally, but this is not the best way to handle the lessons. Another reason that I don't like SWO is that it focuses more on writing than on spelling (at least at this level). Each lesson is 4 pages long. The first page is reading. The second page is mostly tracing the words. The last page focuses on editing--finding spelling, capitalization and punctuation errors--and asks the child to write sentences using their spelling words. Consequently, that leaves just one page of four that is really devoted to spelling.

Tracy

Thanks for letting us know that SWO is writing intensive. That's something to consider since some kids have advanced reading level that may not match their handwriting level, like my daughter.

Does anyone know whether AAS is writing intensive?

[MovingMomma]

Does anyone know whether AAS is writing intensive?

While you don't have to write at all to use AAS (your DC could use the tiles in lieu of writing), DD does not find the amount of writing suggested to be overwhelming. I usually only have her write 5 of the 10 sentences per lesson, though.

[crazyforlatin]

While you don't have to write at all to use AAS (your DC could use the tiles in lieu of writing), DD does not find the amount of writing suggested to be overwhelming. I usually only have her write 5 of the 10 sentences per lesson, though.

May I ask if you looked into other spelling programs and why you chose AAS?

[papillon]

Two of my kids taught themselves to read at age four. One was PS'd and exposed to phonics instruction. She didn't need it, and, frankly, she didn't like it. She had already taught herself how to decode words she was unfamiliar with, and she felt that having to learn formal phonics at that point was holding her back and a complete waste of her time. She was a natural speller, too. My other early reader was HS'd, and we never did phonics. It would have been busywork for him. He's a natural speller, too, and both kids have an incredible memory for words. If they see it or hear it once, it's locked in. I have another child, however, who didn't read fluently until age seven, and, while his spelling is coming along, it does not come naturally to him at all, and we're doing phonics to reinforce not only his reading but also his spelling. So, I guess what I'm saying is...it really depends on the child. Some need it, some don't. You know them better than anyone else. Good luck!