Spinoff from Quality or quanity of read-alouds?: The nature of twaddle...

[nmoira]

OK, let me preface by saying I'm not arguing against exposing children to quality literature. However, there are many books considered to be classic children's lit that I consider twaddle. The most obvious example to me are the Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy books. These aren't terribly well written, are cloying, and are full of grating dialog. I'm also turned off by the obvious marketing of Raggedy Ann dolls (Raggedy is taken away so exact copies can be made).

So what is twaddle?

[Jenny in Atl]

I think everyone has their own definition of what is good and not so good lit. Little Bear always drove me nuts, and I usually love Maurice Sendak, though most of the bks are no longer written by him. I always use bk lists as a guide and the spiral off to find vocabulary rich titles that my girls will enjoy. It's so much easier these days to find all kinds of children's bks with online libraries, bk groups, and such.

[nestof3]

I despise reading A.A. Milne, but my 8 year old memorizes his books.

I also don't like any books that are repetitive. I think "readers" could be somewhat simple but not say the same thing over and over again.

[Peela]

I think it is subjective. I guess books which uplift in some way, enrich, and use good language....are not twaddle...but it is going to vary form person to person. And non twaddle books are not all going to be classics, just as some classics may be considered twaddle by some individuals.
I was brought up on a steady diet of Enid Blighton, and although I would say I was enriched by that, I might now consider some of her books twaddle.

[JESSICAinMD]

From my experience, the books based on cartoon characters have been twaddle. My children love Dora the Explorer but I can't read the books. They don't learn anything from them and it seems a waste of time to read them.

[Plaid Dad]

Here's my twaddle checklist:


inane plots
insipid characters
poor vocabulary
simplistic syntax


In illustrated books, pictures that are cartoony would fall into the "twaddle" category. That includes picture books based on animated TV shows (no matter how "educational") and most especially anything cross-marketed with other products - dolls, toys, videos.

I agree that the Raggedy Ann books are twaddly - at least the sequels. They revolve around chase scenes and junk food, making them the literary equivalent of a Saturday morning cartoon. I'm always wary of a series that grows very long: even if the books start out fine, market pressures can force authors into churning out drivel by the end. That's not always the case, but it's something to watch out for.

In short, twaddle is “dumbed down” intellectually, morally, and aesthetically. Of course there will be differences of opinion on individual books, but it's actually pretty easy to spot twaddle once you've been exposed to the good stuff.

I treat twaddle like junk food - a little won't kill you, but you shouldn't make a habit of it. A steady diet of it will ruin both your health and your palate.

[melissel]

Great thread. I've been pondering the nature of twaddle myself these days, now that my 2.5-year-old is able to enjoy books with a simple plot. She's zeroing in on her older sister's princess books, but I keep hiding them, LOL!

[ThelmaLou]

My kids read a steady diet of quality literature, but they're attracted to twaddle too. They have a hunger for comic strips and comic books. I don't know where it came from, because we don't keep that kind of thing around the house and I don't indulge their interest.

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine introduced me to a series of comic books that have really satisfied my boys' appetites in this area without making me feel like they were completely wasting their time. It's called Tintin by Herge. For any of you reading this thread, I highly recommend these books. My oldest four sons, ages 12, 11, 9, and 7 have spent hours reading these adventures. They have the comic book appearance, but not the mind-numbing content that's typical with most comic books. You an get them in paperback or you can get them in hardback with three adventures per book. There are multiple volumes. Here's a description better than the one I can give:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tintin

[Trivium Academy]

Here's my twaddle checklist:

inane plots
insipid characters
poor vocabulary
simplistic syntax
In illustrated books, pictures that are cartoony would fall into the "twaddle" category. That includes picture books based on animated TV shows (no matter how "educational") and most especially anything cross-marketed with other products - dolls, toys, videos.

I agree that the Raggedy Ann books are twaddly - at least the sequels. They revolve around chase scenes and junk food, making them the literary equivalent of a Saturday morning cartoon. I'm always wary of a series that grows very long: even if the books start out fine, market pressures can force authors into churning out drivel by the end. That's not always the case, but it's something to watch out for.

In short, twaddle is “dumbed down” intellectually, morally, and aesthetically. Of course there will be differences of opinion on individual books, but it's actually pretty easy to spot twaddle once you've been exposed to the good stuff.

I treat twaddle like junk food - a little won't kill you, but you shouldn't make a habit of it. A steady diet of it will ruin both your health and your palate.

:iagree: For non-fiction books, I look for passionate authors, although I prefer a narrative style of writing, accuracy without a lot of fluff is preferred. I do not like comic books or stylized books, or anything that looks like eye candy. Mike Venezia's books are ruined for me by the little comics in his books (IMO) because they are often disrespectful in their comments. I look for edifying books, books that are worth reading to my children and providing for them to read. Characters that my children can learn from and I wouldn't mind them mimicking.

I think Magic Tree House and Magic School Bus are twaddle but I still allow my children to read them. They are a very small part of the literary diet my children are given.

[sadiegirl]

This is my take on selecting readers for my boys. I had a 2nd grade boy that was reading poorly from my perspective as an avid reader. He followed my first son who was and still is a quick reader. I started out picking books for them and he complained about reading CONSTANTLY. One day we were browsing books at bookstore and he found a Bailey Street Dogs series(I think that was the series name) and he read the first book in like 2 days! Asked for more and more. So, I put aside what I thought he should be reading and let him go. Now, fast forward to now...he is in 5th grade and we keep a reading journal where he decorates a title page for the book he is reading and after he reads his book, he reviews it and picks another book. Just finished Tucket's Travels and is going on his 8th book for the year. Looking back to my school years, I hated reading what the school teachers thought were good books for me. I LOVE reading now and I want that to continue with my boys. My oldest son who is a lover of hunting and fishing...we subscribe to all types of hunting l and outdoor magazines which he devours. So, teach them to love to read and they will find good books. One last thing,
I do read a lot of reviews on Amazon and they always get books as gifts. I keep a running wish list and have a good supply for them to choose from...so I am essentially picking but they have a choice as well. sorry for such a long response but I feel so strongly about what reading can offer to all!

[MichelleWI]

Can I add


anything Disney-basedto Plaid Dad's list, please? :glare:

[frogpond1]

My little ones loved the originals.

Right now my 6 year old is in love with Edith Nesbit. We consume her books with a passion here.

[Trivium Academy]

How about just "commercial" based? Let's not forget Nickelodeon, the Cartoon Network and yes, even PBS.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Here's my twaddle checklist:


inane plots
insipid characters
poor vocabulary
simplistic syntax


In illustrated books, pictures that are cartoony would fall into the "twaddle" category. That includes picture books based on animated TV shows (no matter how "educational") and most especially anything cross-marketed with other products - dolls, toys, videos.

I agree that the Raggedy Ann books are twaddly - at least the sequels. They revolve around chase scenes and junk food, making them the literary equivalent of a Saturday morning cartoon. I'm always wary of a series that grows very long: even if the books start out fine, market pressures can force authors into churning out drivel by the end. That's not always the case, but it's something to watch out for.

In short, twaddle is “dumbed down” intellectually, morally, and aesthetically. Of course there will be differences of opinion on individual books, but it's actually pretty easy to spot twaddle once you've been exposed to the good stuff.

I treat twaddle like junk food - a little won't kill you, but you shouldn't make a habit of it. A steady diet of it will ruin both your health and your palate.

I don't mind a little "junk food", my 11 year old devoured The Sister's Grimm, but the reason she enjoyed them so much was because she has been raised on a steady diet of Grimm's, Anderson's, Aesop's, and other classics. So she was intimately familiar with every character and reference the books made. She delighted in them becuase of her familiarity with the "good stuff". kwim?

[melissel]

I don't mind a little "junk food", my 11 year old devoured The Sister's Grimm, but the reason she enjoyed them so much was because she has been raised on a steady diet of Grimm's, Anderson's, Aesop's, and other classics. So she was intimately familiar with every character and reference the books made. She delighted in them becuase of her familiarity with the "good stuff". kwim?

Wow, see, and I don't view the Sisters Grimm as "junk food" at all! I think the characters and the plot and mystery are well drawn, and there are points made about tolerance and not making assumptions about people, and about strong family bonds. I wouldn't put books like this on the same level as Disney junk and books based on TV characters.

I guess this is where the gray area begins. We could probably all agree that Disney and Pokemon books are "junk food," but beyond that, it gets questionable. Although, I wouldn't be sad if I never heard, "That is SOOOO punk rock!" (a la Daphne Grimm) again :smilielol5:

[Victoria]

I've changed my mind completely about twaddle. I used to be of the ilk of only quality literature. Then one day my hate-to-read son discovered mythology comic books. I am embarassed to admit the time I spent beating myself up over the books. Then he discovered Magic Tree House and my 7 year old dd started reading Disney's Fairy books--definite twaddle. My husband thought they were fine; I did not. But now, I have to admit, he was right. I think for most kids they are a good thing, actually. They started their interest in reading and they've graduated from twaddle for the most part. My 9 year old is reading Treasure Island on his own and my just turned 8 year old is reading Story Girl by Lucy Maud Montgomery. Oh, they still read twaddle. We went out this week and bought #39 in the Magic Tree House series. They both finished it by that night and they went back to reading their classics. I consider it the same as me reading a magazine. I am reading Miss Majoribanks but the second a magazine comes in the mail, I put the book down, breeze through the magazine, and then pick up my classic again. No harm. No foul.

Also the mytholgy comics have given my son such a passion for mythology. Since his comic days, he has read every single mythology book the library has and then some. Last year I took him to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC and he actually had a little group of people following him around from statue to statue because he could tell them which god the statue represented and what story was being told. Oh, how I gave myself pats on the back for my twaddle allowance. LOL The only thing I draw the line at is bad attitudes. If the children are fighting and calling each other names, I won't let them read the books (*cough* *cough* Spiderwick), which really rules out most twaddle. ;)

[nmoira]

My kids read a steady diet of quality literature, but they're attracted to twaddle too. They have a hunger for comic strips and comic books. I don't know where it came from, because we don't keep that kind of thing around the house and I don't indulge their interest.My best friend devours more literature in a month than I do in a year, because she reads so quickly, yet she'll unwind from work with a romance novel. DD will plough through some great books at home and then read every Berenstain Bears book (my younger calls them "'Stain bears' and I don't bother to correct her :) ) she can find at the library or the bookstore. I don't buy much in the way of junk or twaddle, and I'm not asked to, so I don't mind. Sometimes mindless is a good thing, as long as it's not the only thing.

It's called Tintin by Herge. For any of you reading this thread, I highly recommend these books.We love Tintin and Asterix. Asterix is particularly fun because DD is rewarded for having finished Ancients; we have even a printout of annotations so she can pick up the things she missed. I'm looking forward to one of the girls wanting to learn French so we can get the original DVD's (and that's the only way they'll even see it). We don't shy away from graphic novels, though everything is pre-read first. Bone by Jeff Smith is a very good series I'd recommend.

[nmoira]

I don't mind a little "junk food", my 11 year old devoured The Sister's Grimm, but the reason she enjoyed them so much was because she has been raised on a steady diet of Grimm's, Anderson's, Aesop's, and other classics. So she was intimately familiar with every character and reference the books made. She delighted in them becuase of her familiarity with the "good stuff". kwim?I don't know that I'd call them junk, but they're certainly rewarding in the way that Jasper Fforde is rewarding for well read adults. We also have a number of mythological adaptations and modern takes: The Fire Thief, Percy Jackson, etc.

[nmoira]

I've changed my mind completely about twaddle. I used to be of the ilk of only quality literature. Then one day my hate-to-read son discovered mythology comic books.Were they the manga style Greek and Roman Mythology booksby Oh? We actually bought these for DD because they did were so faithful to the mythology. She was an early reader and they were her first introduction to Greek mythology.

I am embarassed to admit the time I spent beating myself up over the books. Then he discovered Magic Tree House and my 7 year old dd started reading Disney's Fairy books--definite twaddle.I agree that MTH has its place as a children's early reader. Though I'll admit I cannot understand why people read them aloud.

[nmoira]

Can I add
anything Disney-basedto Plaid Dad's list, please? :glare::iagree: I'm so proud that my oldest was 5 before she referred to Mickey as anything other than the "big black rat." Granted, I live in a crunchy neighborhood in which "sheltering" doesn't take much work.