Spin off topic: Why the increase (my perception) of picky eaters?

[Joanne]

It's my perception that there are more picky eaters than there used to be.

I can also say that with the dozens of clients I've had over the years in my care, nearly 100% of the picky eaters among them were picky at least to some degree due to their parents.

However, I also think there is an increase in sensory, spectrum and other disorders that affect food issues. This, IMO, is multi caused just as the disorders themselves: toxic living (over-vaccines, chemicals, etc)

The last thing, related to the first? The development of "kid food". I truly believe that "kid food" deadens the palate, fuels unhealthy craving and sets the more prone up for a limited palate. Culprits: mac-n-chz, pizza, nuggets, burgers, hot dogs, grilled cheese.

[nestof3]

Because parents are becoming child-centered, and people in general are spoiled. Eating used to be about survival.

I was talking to a lady the other day (a friend). I was sharing how I make soup from leftovers. She said, "No one will eat soup in my house." I said something like, "Well, I make it, it's up to them whether they want to eat it." Then she revealed, "My husband won't eat soup." She had previously disclosed that he rarely eats vegetables and won't eat salad. It might also be interesting to note that he is also obese.

I cannot help but think of Pilippians 3:19 when I think of how picky people are about food now: "whos god is their belly."

I admit I have given in far too much to my children's pickiness. It doesn't help having grandparents near by who spoil the dickens out of them. I am seriously trying to put an end to the picky eater fleshly syndrome.

I am convinced, when people are hungry enough, they will eat. It never hurt a child to go a few meals without food.

[chiguirre]

I have 2 non-picky eaters, NT dd and HFA ds. My MFA ds is a picky eater, but he'll only eat half the list of kid foods. His back up foods are pasta with pesto sauce and plain tortilla chips. He will occasionally go a day or two without eating much of anything. It's never done him any harm. All three of my kids are thin and tall for their age, so I've never gotten too worried about their diets.

[Janna]

I have no idea the reason, and to be honest, I haven't seen an increase in picky eaters; it seems about the same as it I've known it in my limited sphere.

But, for arguments sake, and say there is an actual increase, I'm wondering if it is from more food related allergies? Maybe even undiagnosed? Or lactose problems? In Kristine in IN post, which you're stemming off of, her friend's child has celiac's disease. That's automatically going to make one picky, you know?

I think there could also be argument for parents being more lax in discipline and being more child centered as was mentioned above, but I don't know to what extent or percentage. I'd hate to think it's mainly that though...

[CookieMonster]

is availability of food.

You can get any food you crave or desire, whether white and bland, crunchy and bland, sour, soft, hard, spicy, and all of it cooked just to your liking, very easily. If you don't like what you have, you can get what you do like.

That is the number one reason, in my view. A parent whose kid prefers hard, bland food can find many easy to fix meals that fit the bill. Pick a different preference, and the outcome is the same.

All other valid reasons would be naught if there were fewer affordable alternative choices in the supermarkets. Really.

The second reason is our distance from food as consumers. In a very short amount of time (just the past few decades) consumers have been drastically removed from their source of food in complete ways. This results in kids growing up not realizing where their steak and chicken really come from, or what entails raising their plate of vegetables. Not only do they never grow it, they've never even seen it grown. And you can forget about canning. They don't even know what that is. And their moms prepare food with them out of the room, not helping. And in a restaurant the food is cooked somewhere out of sight.

The result is kids who don't have a relationship with their food. They don't really know what it is, where it came from, or why it looks and tastes the way it does.

[Rebecca in VA]

Every one of the kid foods you mentioned is extremely high in sodium. High-sodium foods cause cravings for more sodium and (in an effort to balance things out) sugar.

Try serving low-salt (or even no-salt, LOL) chicken nuggets or macaroni and cheese as an experiment and see what happens.

[amy g.]

I was the Queen of picky eaters as a child.

I loved salad, but couldn't stand salad dressing. My mother would serve me a bowl before dressing the salad, but I was out of luck when it came to having seconds.

I got in a major power struggle with my first grade teacher, because she wanted to force every child to eat all of their food every day. I quit eating at all. My mother finally convinced the principal that "It's best to just not make an issue of food."

Then there was the time I ate only oranges for a month. My mom still wasn't ruffled. As long as I took my multi vitamin, I could eat what I wanted. I branched out to oranges, carrots, and cheddar cheese. I don't know how long I only ate monochromatic meals.

I didn't have the option to only eat waffles, or hot dogs, or mac and cheese, like so many kids I know today because we only kept whole natural foods in the house, so my eating obsessions slowly died out.

I have to admit that as an adult, I have sat right down on the floor, and cried my eyes out because my take out order was wrong, but that was years ago, I promise.

I think that my mother's refusal to cater to me, and refusal to fight about it really saved me. I did have sensory issues and a learning disability, so I don't think I was just being spoiled.

I have really tried to mold my children's taste, starting with making their baby food so they would not become accustomed to bland mush. They have never had sugar cereal or T.V dinners or happy meals. They never asked for them, because I didn't let them watch any programing with commercials.

I'm happy with how well all of them eat, even my one with Asperger's and my two vegetarians.

Of course, we have to deal with the reversal, and try not to be rude guests. When we go to birthday parties, they just can't stomach the processed kid food. They just don't take a plate at all. If the hostess comments on it, they say that they ate on the way to the party.

[True Blue]

I was a picky eater, too. Certain foods and textures would cause me to gag and vomit. I'd get spanked if I did it but I still did it. I'd spend hours at the table with a huge bowl of peas in front of me. People who have never experienced eating issues think kids are spoiled that are picky. I know otherwise.

[Margaret in CO]

My 12yo ds commented today, "Yeah know mom, if people are picky, it might be that they have too many choices!" :D

[Valerie(TX)]

Nest of 3

Quote

Because parents are becoming child-centered, and people in general are spoiled. Eating used to be about survival.

I cannot help but think of Pilippians 3:19 when I think of how picky people are about food now: "whos god is their belly."

I admit I have given in far too much to my children's pickiness. It doesn't help having grandparents near by who spoil the dickens out of them. I am seriously trying to put an end to the picky eater fleshly syndrome.

I am convinced, when people are hungry enough, they will eat. It never hurt a child to go a few meals without food."

You said exactly what I was thinking but you phrased in a much more eloquent and succint way.

[MicheleB]

I was a picky eater, too. Certain foods and textures would cause me to gag and vomit. I'd get spanked if I did it but I still did it. I'd spend hours at the table with a huge bowl of peas in front of me. People who have never experienced eating issues think kids are spoiled that are picky. I know otherwise.
ITA!!!! :iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

I was a picky eater, too. Certain foods and textures would cause me to gag and vomit. I'd get spanked if I did it but I still did it. I'd spend hours at the table with a huge bowl of peas in front of me. People who have never experienced eating issues think kids are spoiled that are picky. I know otherwise.

I can't eat anything like mushrooms or mussels...nothing with that spongy texture *shudders* but I'm not picky eater generally speaking (at least *I* don't think I am).

People I think of as "picky" are people who won't even *try* something they've never been exposed to before.

[Karen sn]

When dd was a toddler I gave her choices, "Would you like an apple or a carrot?" She had a choice - I controlled the content. I have heard parents offer an apple or cookie....DUH.
My dd eats what is served. Always has - and eats well.
I don't cater to her, we keep it simple.
Drives me nuts that people put soda in bottles and sippy cups.

And don't get me started on these crappy sugar red dye cereals and then parents who wonder why their kids are moody, hyper, and sick.

[Jenny in Florida]

Here's the thing, though. I've never given my kids a lot of grief about it, because I remember exactly how helpless and desperate it made me when I was a child and some adult tried to force me to eat something I found disgusting. I don't intend to blow my own horn, here, but now that I'm an adult and raising two exceptionally bright kids and have done some research about traits of gifted children, I also recognize that high intelligence often goes hand in hand with high sensitivities--to flavor, to texture, to smell . . . So, forcing a kid who truly has a very real physical reaction against a certain kind of food to eat it is really torture. And I was one of those kids, and I still struggle with resentment about the way my sensitivities were handled. (Not the food thing. I more or less got a pass on that one, but other things like fear of the dark and sensitivity to noise and such.)

And, truly, I've branched out a lot as an adult. There are still certain foods I won't touch, oddly enough, often the ones about which my parents made the biggest deal trying to get me to eat. (Mushrooms. Blecch.) But I do really well and have for years.

And my daughter, whom I used to refer to as the "world champion picky eater" is, at age 13, trying new things and even asking for recipes so she can learn to cook.

My son has always been less picky, but he, too, adds things to his repetoire fairly regularly.

My husband used to get really irritable about this issue, but then I pointed out to him that, as an adult, he always has the option of selecting his own meals. There are certain things he won't touch (macaroni and cheese, any kind of fish or shellfish, for example), and he would simply choose not to eat if I served those for dinner. I think children deserve the same right.

Now, I don't (generally) cook separate meals for them. I tend to make meals that are "modular," meaning they are made up of components that can be combined in various ways to suit everyone's taste. So, when I make black bean burritos for the adults, the kids may eat any of the components they choose: rice, corn, beans, tortillas, salsa, etc. And they are always free to round out any meal with a serving of fruit and a glass of soy milk. They're both extremely healthy and not traumatized by repeated battles over the dinner table.

I guess I could have just titled this "In Defense of Picky Eaters" and been done with it, huh?

Seriously, I've just never understood why this is such a big thing for people. It seems like so many folks treat it as a character or disciplnary issue, but for me, as long as the kids are healthy and what they are eating is reasonbly good stuff, it's really just a social thing. I figure they'll get over it if and when it starts to interfere with their life in some meaningful way.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Is there really an increase? My younger sister was so picky that she was malnourished enough to have her hair fall out with every brushing. The doc had to prescribe special vitamins until she expanded her repetiore. And my mother was no pushover. I can remember going to bed hungry on many a night because I didn't like the dinner she made (and dear old mom made some pretty disgusting stuff - liver and onions used to make me gag.) And I wasn't the picky one. I actually ate the overcooked mushy veggies she served.

I remember many kids at school who were very picky.

[StacyWithFourRugrats]

Here's the thing, though. I've never given my kids a lot of grief about it, because I remember exactly how helpless and desperate it made me when I was a child and some adult tried to force me to eat something I found disgusting. I don't intend to blow my own horn, here, but now that I'm an adult and raising two exceptionally bright kids and have done some research about traits of gifted children, I also recognize that high intelligence often goes hand in hand with high sensitivities--to flavor, to texture, to smell . . . So, forcing a kid who truly has a very real physical reaction against a certain kind of food to eat it is really torture. And I was one of those kids, and I still struggle with resentment about the way my sensitivities were handled. (Not the food thing. I more or less got a pass on that one, but other things like fear of the dark and sensitivity to noise and such.)

And, truly, I've branched out a lot as an adult. There are still certain foods I won't touch, oddly enough, often the ones about which my parents made the biggest deal trying to get me to eat. (Mushrooms. Blecch.) But I do really well and have for years.

And my daughter, whom I used to refer to as the "world champion picky eater" is, at age 13, trying new things and even asking for recipes so she can learn to cook.

My son has always been less picky, but he, too, adds things to his repetoire fairly regularly.

My husband used to get really irritable about this issue, but then I pointed out to him that, as an adult, he always has the option of selecting his own meals. There are certain things he won't touch (macaroni and cheese, any kind of fish or shellfish, for example), and he would simply choose not to eat if I served those for dinner. I think children deserve the same right.

Now, I don't (generally) cook separate meals for them. I tend to make meals that are "modular," meaning they are made up of components that can be combined in various ways to suit everyone's taste. So, when I make black bean burritos for the adults, the kids may eat any of the components they choose: rice, corn, beans, tortillas, salsa, etc. And they are always free to round out any meal with a serving of fruit and a glass of soy milk. They're both extremely healthy and not traumatized by repeated battles over the dinner table.

I guess I could have just titled this "In Defense of Picky Eaters" and been done with it, huh?

Seriously, I've just never understood why this is such a big thing for people. It seems like so many folks treat it as a character or disciplnary issue, but for me, as long as the kids are healthy and what they are eating is reasonbly good stuff, it's really just a social thing. I figure they'll get over it if and when it starts to interfere with their life in some meaningful way.

:iagree:

Very well said! I understand how my ds is (who is slightly gifted like I was) and I do not make it an issue. I will serve different meals for him, but it is always something easy like PB&J, grilled cheese, chicken nuggets/fries (tho that is not too often) or just the one cereal he likes. I don't cater to him any more than that nor do I plan my menu around him. If I did, we wouldn't get to eat anything very interesting! He understands he will not get something fancy and is happy with his pb&j sandwiches (he seems to live off of these...but the jam is fruit, the bread is wheat and grains and the pb is protein...he just needs the dang veggies!...we are working on that).

I have faith that he will get better, if not completely over his picky issues. I did. Tho mushrooms...eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. FUNGUS! :lol:

[Janet in WA]

It's my perception that there are more picky eaters than there used to be.I wonder if there really are more picky eaters or if it's like so many things in our society -- we're just more aware of them because we're in the "information age" where no aspect of human nature escapes the spotlight -- or the Dr. Phil show.

[GothicGyrl]

The last thing, related to the first? The development of "kid food". I truly believe that "kid food" deadens the palate, fuels unhealthy craving and sets the more prone up for a limited palate. Culprits: mac-n-chz, pizza, nuggets, burgers, hot dogs, grilled cheese.

Joanne, I am usually spot on with you and most of the things you said, but this statement has me nodding both ways--I agree that there is the advent of "kid" food that does deaden the palate and such, but I disagree with what you listed as being the culprits.

I truly believe it's now a matter of coveinence over anything else. People are soooooooooooo busy these days, no one has any spare time to even think of turning on a stove and besides, McD's is on the way, let's just stop and get Jr. whatever he wants.

I might get slammed for this next statement because I don't have children who have any disorders of any kind, but I do disagree with you on the whole "vaccine over doing" thing. I'll give you the "toxic living" part--it's all conveinence now, but I won't be so quick to blame vaccines, hormones in food, etc. I'm not saying they aren't at least in a minor way, to blame, but I don't believe they are the whole problem.

No, I fully believe it is all about conveinence. It's just too much trouble to be bothered with cooking anymore, people are too busy (as are kids), and manufacturers took note of this by making an increase in "boxed" dinners.

I never fed my kids baby food out of jars, they had real food from the earliest I could get them to eat. Heck, my oldest--at 6 months old--used to LOVE eating Herring in Sour Cream right out the jar, with her father!! I never denied my kids any food either, I never said "well this book says wait until a certain age to feed it to them".. no way--if they wanted it and were hungry, they got it. This led to a 1 year old eating raw veggies and dip freely, fish, and anything else I put on her plate. Her little sister is a bit more discerning, but they basically eat just about anything I cook.

Like someone said, child-centric, true spoilage, and conveinence. That's what it's all about today.

[Old Dominion Heather]

So, forcing a kid who truly has a very real physical reaction against a certain kind of food to eat it is really torture.

Yeah, but...

I differentiate between allergy/textural issues and true "pickyness". We are a family full of food issues. I am allergic to chicken/turkey and eggs... I have a cousin with full-blown Galactosemia which involves no lactose, ever, his whole life, can't ever have it. So we have to read labels, and deal... this means gracefully choosing things on the table that don't have chicken/eggs, and for my cousin, not eating at peoples' houses unless he can read the packaging. He takes his own food when we eat out.

See, then there are people whose kids only eat chicken nuggets. ONLY. CHICKEN. NUGGETS.

And that is just wrong.

[Jenny in Atl]

I've always wondered if kids living in the Amazon or the Outback, were picky eaters. Like, "Mom, not fried grubs again!"

Just wondered...

[StacyWithFourRugrats]

I've always wondered if kids living in the Amazon or the Outback, were picky eaters. Like, "Mom, not fried grubs again!"

Just wondered...

:lol:

I kinda wonder that a bit myself. Hehe

[Janet in WA]

Yeah, but...

I differentiate between allergy/textural issues and true "pickyness". We are a family full of food issues. I am allergic to chicken/turkey and eggs... I have a cousin with full-blown Galactosemia which involves no lactose, ever, his whole life, can't ever have it. So we have to read labels, and deal... this means gracefully choosing things on the table that don't have chicken/eggs, and for my cousin, not eating at peoples' houses unless he can read the packaging. He takes his own food when we eat out.

See, then there are people whose kids only eat chicken nuggets. ONLY. CHICKEN. NUGGETS.

And that is just wrong.How do you differentiate between allergy/textural issues and "true pickiness"? How do you make that judgment call? There's a good chance that a child will eat only chicken nuggets because of issues that you may not recognize.

Dh, with "sensory issues" explained that phenomenon to me.
When you are a child and have had enough bad experiences "trying" foods that people think you should "try", you become afraid to try anything. You pick things you KNOW are safe (and, yes, some children may resort to one safe food, like chicken nuggets) and you cling to that. You decide that you may not be able to control much else in your little world, but by golly, you WILL control what goes into your mouth.

[True Blue]

Some are wondering if "pickiness" or food issues aren't hereditary or genetic. I wish I knew. I know that no one ever, EVER planned food around me or gave me junk. I've outgrown all my pickiness but its taken years. I still cannot eat peas but I think that's it.

My picky kids are already years ahead of where I was as a child and are quickly outgrowing it. Thank goodness! I was concerned that my "don't make food a battle" mantra was going to backfire on me. But its working its magic before my eyes. :)

[snickelfritz]

My husband used to get really irritable about this issue, but then I pointed out to him that, as an adult, he always has the option of selecting his own meals. There are certain things he won't touch (macaroni and cheese, any kind of fish or shellfish, for example), and he would simply choose not to eat if I served those for dinner. I think children deserve the same right.

I don't cook foods that I don't like. I don't cook foods that dh doesn't like.


Now, I don't (generally) cook separate meals for them. I tend to make meals that are "modular," meaning they are made up of components that can be combined in various ways to suit everyone's taste. So, when I make black bean burritos for the adults, the kids may eat any of the components they choose: rice, corn, beans, tortillas, salsa, etc. And they are always free to round out any meal with a serving of fruit and a glass of soy milk. They're both extremely healthy and not traumatized by repeated battles over the dinner table.

Could have been my example. They'll have buttered noodles when we do spaghetti and tortillas and cheese when we have bean burritos.

[Cindyg]

I can't believe no one in this thread has mentioned autism.

Whatever it is that is causing more kids to be autistic -- that's the same thing that's causing more kids to be picky eaters. The two are related.

And for those of you who think picky eating is caused by some sort of child-centered style of parenting, or even because there is an abundance of food, that's because you don't have a kid like this.

My son has cried and prayed and wished that he weren't so orally sensitive. But he is. I could give you dozens of examples of times where my son noticed a slight ingredient change.

OK, here's one example: When he was about 4, he used to eat maple ham from the deli at my grocery store. Then one day, he couldn't eat it any more. I swore to him it wasn't different, that I got it at the same place as usual. It tasted exactly the same to me. But not to him. The next time I was at the store, I asked the deli guy if there was a change in the maple ham. He had to call the distributor to find out. Sure enough -- it was from a different source. Supposed to be exactly the same though. My son knew the difference. This isn't caused by child-centered parenting or being spoiled.

If you are super sensitive, textures and flavors that are tolerable to others will overwhelm you.

We've spent a small fortune on occupational therapy to help DS with this. It has caused no end of tears and frustration at our house. It's not anywhere as simple as parenting style. I really believe that kids who are like this in other cultures -- cultures who can't afford to work around it -- I believe those kids die of hunger or failure to thrive. I really do. I believe that's why you don't see this in other cultures, other times. Those kids died.

So, when we figure out what's causing autism, all the peanut allergies, ADHD, OCD, Aspergers, and all the rest of it, we'll also know what's causing these picky eaters.

[nestof3]

What's funny to me is that for the most part (I know there are a few rare examples) almost every child likes soda, ice cream, sugar cereal, chicken nuggets, cake, cookies, etc.

Again -- I know someone out there does not like the above mentioned, but I know FAR more people who have all of these "issues" with vegetables or lentils or oatmeal.

You're right, I cannot vouch for food allergies, autistic children and so forth.

BUT for the most part, I guarantee you that for MOST children, give them nothing to eat for two days and see if they decide to eat that "issue" food. As I said in my post, it's not just an issue with children being picky, it's everyone. We only see it more in children because adults are the ones in control of the cooking. I find the picker the adult is, the more they allow it in their children. There are a couple of foods that caused a serious gag response in my kids, and I did not require them to finish it, but for the most part, they'd just rather eat what they like the best. I see just as many adults like this.

On a small scale, I see this in my kids. They end up gobbling down some detestable food during the 5 minutes before bedtime -- the same food they whined about during dinner!

People also grow accustomed to the food they grow up around. Introducing ethnic food when one has been surrounded by "American" food can cause problems as well. For peet's sake, people eat dragonflies as delicacies in other nations!

[Barb F. PA in AZ]

Seriously, I've just never understood why this is such a big thing for people. It seems like so many folks treat it as a character or disciplnary issue, but for me, as long as the kids are healthy and what they are eating is reasonbly good stuff, it's really just a social thing. I figure they'll get over it if and when it starts to interfere with their life in some meaningful way.

Your kids eat black beans and salsa, fruit and soy milk. To me, that's not a picky eater...just a choosy one. When I think "picky eater" I think of the little girl who came over to play the other day. She said she was hungry, but when offered food replied, "I don't eat cheese...no I don't like fruit...um, do you have peanut butter? No, I don't like jelly. What's this brown bread? Do you have white?" Or my nephew who eats nothing for breakfast but cheerios with chocolate soy on it, and pushes aside his chicken and vegetables and asks for seconds and thirds of rolls and rice.

I think we need to define our terms.

Barb

[nestof3]

Oh -- and I think the most hilarious statements were made by my MIL and one of my husband's customers.

One said: I cannot drink water -- it doesn't agree with me.

The other said: I just don't like to drink water (spoken by the Splenda queen).

[Barb F. PA in AZ]

How do you differentiate between allergy/textural issues and "true pickiness"? How do you make that judgment call? There's a good chance that a child will eat only chicken nuggets because of issues that you may not recognize.

Dh, with "sensory issues" explained that phenomenon to me.
When you are a child and have had enough bad experiences "trying" foods that people think you should "try", you become afraid to try anything. You pick things you KNOW are safe (and, yes, some children may resort to one safe food, like chicken nuggets) and you cling to that. You decide that you may not be able to control much else in your little world, but by golly, you WILL control what goes into your mouth.

Nah, I don't buy it as an explanation for the chicken nuggets. I had multiple sensory issues as a child, since outgrown. I kept a military plate...no food could touch another. Couldn't do slimy or chewy or stringy. Leftovers smelled rotten 24 hours later. But nuggets just weren't on the menu. If there are no nuggets in the house (or Lucky Charms or hot dogs), then the child is forced to choose from acceptable options and will eventually branch out (as a poster above described...I'm sorry, I've forgotten who!). An adult's health is a product of his childhood diet. I think it's dead wrong to allow a child to build a body on chicken nuggets.

Barb

[StacyWithFourRugrats]

What's funny to me is that for the most part (I know there are a few rare examples) almost every child likes soda, ice cream, sugar cereal, chicken nuggets, cake, cookies, etc.

Again -- I know someone out there does not like the above mentioned, but I know FAR more people who have all of these "issues" with vegetables or lentils or oatmeal.

You're right, I cannot vouch for food allergies, autistic children and so forth.

BUT for the most part, I guarantee you that for MOST children, give them nothing to eat for two days and see if they decide to eat that "issue" food. As I said in my post, it's not just an issue with children being picky, it's everyone. We only see it more in children because adults are the ones in control of the cooking. I find the picker the adult is, the more they allow it in their children. There are a couple of foods that caused a serious gag response in my kids, and I did not require them to finish it, but for the most part, they'd just rather eat what they like the best. I see just as many adults like this.

On a small scale, I see this in my kids. They end up gobbling down some detestable food during the 5 minutes before bedtime -- the same food they whined about during dinner!

People also grow accustomed to the food they grow up around. Introducing ethnic food when one has been surrounded by "American" food can cause problems as well. For peet's sake, people eat dragonflies as delicacies in other nations!

I once sat with my picky eater ALL DAY LONG trying to get him to eat a hot dog. He could NOT do it. He just literally freaked out over and over. After all, all children were supposed to like hot dogs right? I have never, ever done that to my child again. It is paramount to torture in my mind and if you had ever witnessed it, you would not be judging others so. So please do not sit here and lecture other people on how it is "their pickiness" that is causing their children to be picky. He is NOT autistic, he does NOT have food allergies, he is NOT as Aspie child or "so forth". You can not stick him with one of your labels, which you then apparently put in the "MOST" category. He is just a sensitive child who has a fear of some foods.

I have been enlightened tonight on many things. The prejudice and "holier than thou" attitude of some posters. I have written a number of posts tonight that I ended up deleting because I just didn't think it was worth it. And this post is probably a bit harsh and for that, I do sincerely apologize. It is late and I have been reading too many posts attacking my child, myself, my apparently incorrect parenting styles and how my dh and myself handle our child and his food issues. You would not appreciate this same done to you so please, out of respect for others, do not do it in person or on a message board.

I have also been pleasantly enlightened on some of the suggestions and thoughts on picky eaters. While the thought may have flittered through my mind connecting my son's sensitivities and his borderline OCD tendencies, I never really put 2 and 2 together with my son's food issues. Whether they are connected, I do not know. But it is an interesting thought. None of it however changes the way we treat food in our house. They eat healthy, even if it is PB&J more often than I might like. Food will never been worth fighting over in our house (unless it is the way they play with it...why do they insist of treating their food like legos!:lol:)

I have never been able to understand why people insist on knowing more about how people raise their children than the parents and why children are the way they are. And I truly do not expect to see that attitude much on a homeschooling board. After all, most of us have been subjected to the attitude that someone knows our children better than their parents right? Is this the case of the bully bullies others cuz they were bullied before?

Again, I will say I apologize if this comes out harsh, but some of the posts (and this is not fully directed at the quoted poster) have been truly harsh to others on this subject and the fighting woman in me burst forth! (kinda like on Alien, but without all the yucky green stuff :tongue_smilie:)

[Whisperlily]

Jumping in halfway, as I haven't read all the responses here... Musing about the difference between a child who is spoiled/picky and one who is dealing with issues... Mine is usually very sweet about things she won't eat, even declaring some of them yummy! As opposed to those peeking in cupboards scanning the goods for "tasties" ;)

I'm a mom of sensory food issue kids, and food allergy kids... (oddly enough, the 2 who have allergies don't have sensory issues and vice versa.)

I know my sensory eater is picky about the food she will and won't eat. It's kinda funny, and you *know* there's something wrong with a child who refuses all the things nestof3 mentioned above. She'll drink only water or milk. She refuses any kind of juice or sweetened drink. She takes a sip, says yummm! and hands it back refusing any more... begging for water. LOL

She also is the child who was so excited to tell us that they'd given her a cookie in Sunday School. Sure enough, there was the cookie, with one tiny half-bite missing... still gripped in her little 3 year old hand. She refused to eat it. But she was SO happy to get one!

She hates chocolate milk, hates it! Give her plain and she's fine.

She refuses most processed foods... She hates french fries and has refused them all her life. She doesn't like chips, or typical junk food. She won't eat bread or crackers.

She also refuses fruit of any kind, sadly.

We're working very hard to get her to eat. This morning we had a big breakthrough and she ate 1/2 bowl of oatmeal. *cheer* She'll eat cubed chicken (and yes, chicken nuggets) and she'll usually try other meats.

She's not a typical kid-food picky eater... so in this case, it's pretty easy to see it's not convenience or kid-foods that have created the problem. ;)

[Janet in WA]

Nah, I don't buy it as an explanation for the chicken nuggets. I had multiple sensory issues as a child, since outgrown. I kept a military plate...no food could touch another. Couldn't do slimy or chewy or stringy. Leftovers smelled rotten 24 hours later. But nuggets just weren't on the menu. If there are no nuggets in the house (or Lucky Charms or hot dogs), then the child is forced to choose from acceptable options and will eventually branch out (as a poster above described...I'm sorry, I've forgotten who!). An adult's health is a product of his childhood diet. I think it's dead wrong to allow a child to build a body on chicken nuggets.

BarbWell, my comments weren't literally about chicken nuggets -- or any junk food. They were about a child's choosing to eat just one food, which could just as well include one that you'd consider an "acceptable option".

[Elaine]

I once sat with my picky eater ALL DAY LONG trying to get him to eat a hot dog. He could NOT do it. He just literally freaked out over and over. After all, all children were supposed to like hot dogs right? I have never, ever done that to my child again. It is paramount to torture in my mind and if you had ever witnessed it, you would not be judging others so. So please do not sit here and lecture other people on how it is "their pickiness" that is causing their children to be picky. He is NOT autistic, he does NOT have food allergies, he is NOT as Aspie child or "so forth". You can not stick him with one of your labels, which you then apparently put in the "MOST" category. He is just a sensitive child who has a fear of some foods.

I have been enlightened tonight on many things. The prejudice and "holier than thou" attitude of some posters. I have written a number of posts tonight that I ended up deleting because I just didn't think it was worth it. And this post is probably a bit harsh and for that, I do sincerely apologize. It is late and I have been reading too many posts attacking my child, myself, my apparently incorrect parenting styles and how my dh and myself handle our child and his food issues. You would not appreciate this same done to you so please, out of respect for others, do not do it in person or on a message board.

I have also been pleasantly enlightened on some of the suggestions and thoughts on picky eaters. While the thought may have flittered through my mind connecting my son's sensitivities and his borderline OCD tendencies, I never really put 2 and 2 together with my son's food issues. Whether they are connected, I do not know. But it is an interesting thought. None of it however changes the way we treat food in our house. They eat healthy, even if it is PB&J more often than I might like. Food will never been worth fighting over in our house (unless it is the way they play with it...why do they insist of treating their food like legos!:lol:)

I have never been able to understand why people insist on knowing more about how people raise their children than the parents and why children are the way they are. And I truly do not expect to see that attitude much on a homeschooling board. After all, most of us have been subjected to the attitude that someone knows our children better than their parents right? Is this the case of the bully bullies others cuz they were bullied before?

Again, I will say I apologize if this comes out harsh, but some of the posts (and this is not fully directed at the quoted poster) have been truly harsh to others on this subject and the fighting woman in me burst forth! (kinda like on Alien, but without all the yucky green stuff :tongue_smilie:)

((Stacy)):001_smile:

[nestof3]

Stacy,

Perhaps he watched a video on how they make hotdogs? That could cause anyone to stop eating them. :lol:

I did not advocate sitting with a child all day long forcing him to eat something. I don't do that myself. They get their plate of food that I dish out for lunch or dinner, when they are done, they are excused and the plate stays on the table. Most of the time they go back and finish their least favorite item. There have been times they didn't.

Like I also said, if they have a gag response, I let them know it's okay not to finish it.

But, I stand by what I said that MOST picky eaters could truly be less picky. Like the man I mentioned: no soups, practically no vegetables, no salads.

I am thinking a lot about this and asking a lot of questions though. I'd like to know how common "picky eaters" are in less wealthy nations. I cannot imagine 500 years ago women making all of these different foods because of sensory issues, brilliance or compulsive tendencies. Having all of these choices is a rather new thing when you think about it. I think these are valid questions to ask. I also think it's valid to find out what foods a child truly gag on and which foods are just not preferences.

[Rosie_0801]

It could just be the stage of life I'm in at the moment, (my daughter will be one next week) but I think it all starts from their first food. It could also be that I'm food obsessed, but I really think that horrible baby rice stuff prevents a person from developing the joy of real food. When I was in hospital (daughter with me) the nurse had a go at me for feeding my daughter tinned apricot. I personally hate tinned apricot, but we both like it more than we liked the rice stuff they served her. It resembles wall paper paste more than food, in my very opinionated opinion.
:)
Rosie

[Whisperlily]

I am thinking a lot about this and asking a lot of questions though. I'd like to know how common "picky eaters" are in less wealthy nations. I cannot imagine 500 years ago women making all of these different foods because of sensory issues, brilliance or compulsive tendencies. Having all of these choices is a rather new thing when you think about it. I think these are valid questions to ask. I also think it's valid to find out what foods a child truly gag on and which foods are just not preferences.

In the case of my daughter... she will, and IS learning to eat foods she has a sensory aversion to. It's a process, and I have to sit down and work with her and help her process the sensation/texture of certain foods. There ARE ways of helping them. Thinking of times past, I'm sure a child who was stuck on a developmental eating stage (like my daughter) would have a parent concerned. Instead of choosing another food from the same developmental stage (ie. what the child will eat) They probably spent quite a bit of time TEACHING the child how to eat those particular foods.

I don't know if it's something we/they even thought about. Most parents do these things instinctively. If a child is stuck where they eat foods that are soft/manipulative such as pizza, chicken nuggets, hot dogs, french fries, etc.... the parents today have plenty of options to "round out" the diet. Hard manipulatives such as apple pieces, carrots, lettuce, most vegetables, etc. which aren't soft or don't "melt" slightly and have to be fully manipulated in the mouth are often foods which kids take longer to develop the ability and desire to handle.

Some mothers now, and in the past have instinctively taken the time to work with a child. Just one bite... chew it up, see how it feels in your mouth? Can you taste it? You WORK to get your child to eat good foods. For some it's a MUCH harder process... but the NEED has been taken away, and the TIME parents have to even think about these things is gone... Many/most kids pick it up on their own. Some need a lot of attention to the sensory aspect in order to wire their brain to accept the texture in their mouths.

Maybe it does come down to too many choices? Or lack of understanding about child development?

[Barb F. PA in AZ]

Well, my comments weren't literally about chicken nuggets -- or any junk food. They were about a child's choosing to eat just one food, which could just as well include one that you'd consider an "acceptable option".

You mean like something edible? That's fine by me. I can work with that. I'm just so exasperated by kids who come to my house and refuse to eat because I don't have any highly processed, salted, flavorless food product on hand. Said kids are overweight, tire easily, and have a hard time climbing, running or playing because they are overfed and malnutritioned. Why don't we just hand them cigarettes and get it over with quicker?

I misunderstood your comments because they seemed to be in defense of literally, the nugget. I understand choosy kids...honestly I do. I serve whatever I'm going to serve and never force anyone to eat it. My oldest went through a phase as a little one where she would eat nothing but white or tan food. Pasta with butter, white rice, yogurt, bananas, chicken legs broiled and skinned, pb sandwiches, dry cheerios, milk. Not the best diet, but not hot dogs and french fries. A lot of this had to do with her spending a lot of time at my mom's house where they bent over backward to cater to her sensitivities. Maybe they felt guilty for forcing liver, brussels sprouts, and squash casserole on me as a child :tongue_smilie: But over time she grew out of it and is now a total foodie.

I think there is a wide range of food issues in children. To a certain extent, it's ingrained in our DNA to reject odd or strong tastes because back when everything was caught or gathered something with a strong or off taste could kill you. Those of us who are overly sensitive come from a long line of survivors. But I feel like it's our job as parents to control the pantry and refuse to buy the garbage simply because it's easier. It's very similar to controlling their literature or video choices...it's our job to gently open our kids minds and appetites as they grow.

I think those of us reacting strongly to this thread are coming from two different camps...the one whose children are simply choosy or controlling over their foods and the one whose friends or relatives let the kids set the menu simply because it's easier and give no thought to the long term ramifications of that decision. And I think the two camps are talking past one another :)

Barb

[Katia]

My dd will be 16yo next month, and she STILL struggles with the overactive gag reflex. I'm so sick of "people" saying she is "picky" or worse, "spoiled".

Have we left her with a plate of healthy food and told to eat it or starve? Yes. Does it work? No. She will starve. She lost 45 pounds in one month when she was 11yo because dh decided to make this an issue. She simply can. not. eat. most foods. Dr. made dh let her eat what she could. She would have died.

She will not eat any fruit, vegetable or meat. Period. No McD at all. When we go to McD we order a "cheeseburger, plain, with the meat on the side". That translates to a cheese sandwich!

No potato chips, no Doritos, no sodas, no nuggets. She will eat chocolate, a very few cookies, and she likes cake with frosting but doesn't see that often in this house!

Her breakfast is a glass of milk or grape or apple juice. Sometimes she will fix toast with peanut-butter on it to go with the drink. Most times not.

Lunch is a PBJ (only 100% fruit spread), natural PB and whole-wheat bread. A slice of Longhorn or Colby-Jack cheese. Sometimes a handful of raisins.

Supper......a repeat of lunch. Or sometimes a cheese pizza but only if there is a thin crust. No meat. She will eat Shells and Cheese but not Mac and Cheese, but no spaghetti and no meat in the pasta.

She snacks on whole wheat crackers or peanut-butter. She carries a bottle of water around all day, refilling as necessary and drinks water constantly.

Believe me, any variation at all from this and it all comes up. Not pretty. And she is mortified.

Last week at her Bright Lights meeting a girl had a birthday and brought fruit cups with whipped cream on top. DD can not eat whipped cream, so she tried to dig out the fruit under the cream and she managed to get some of the fruit down without gagging, but she simply couldn't stomach the little bottles of Kool-Aid, so she slipped it back (unopened) into the cooler when no one was looking.

You would think dd would be very slim, but she is actually a bit on the chunky side. Add to that very, very large, pendulous booKs, and she looks huge. What a mess for a teen girl.

And then to be told she is "picky", or that she is "spoiled". What rot. Obviously people that think that way don't have to deal with these issues. How sad that they feel the need to judge.

[Janna]

It seems that most of these posts are about children being picky eaters. But I've gotta tell ya, that I've been frustrated over the years in the way adults eat.

We haven't lived here for too long - about 5 years. So we've made sure we've invited people over for dinners and whatnot to get to know them better. We are also leaders of a small group at our church now, and so we frequently host our group.

While no one has ever told me they didn't like what I've prepared for dinner or snacks, I don't usually get rave reviews either. However, I have noticed people going ga-ga over recipes others have made that are completely processed. Pizza made from canned biscuit dough or desserts made with whipped "topping". I know I'm not a bad cook, I just think that people aren't used to the taste of real food anymore. And I get teased frequently for making my own whipped cream (which is funny because I am constantly telling them how fast and easy it is!) or making anything, really, that didn't come in a box first.

It has become frustrating at times to try to prepare a meal or snacks for people when I'm not sure what they're going to like or not. Or, knowing that what they are going to like is what I refuse to buy. But I've found myself preparing things for them with that stuff anyway, because it's worth making someone else comfortable, esp. when they are guests in my home. But golly, it throws me sometimes when I make something from scratch that's not processed and has a plethora of flavor (fresh herbs and other seasonings) and it gets passed over in favor of a crockpot full of mini wieners or something, LOL.

My point is, it's not limited to children. Adults can be just as picky.

[Liz CA]

Because parents are becoming child-centered, and people in general are spoiled. Eating used to be about survival.


I am convinced, when people are hungry enough, they will eat. It never hurt a child to go a few meals without food.

...during WWII, in Europe, my grandmother and her friend stole heads of cabbage from fields to feed their children. I heard this story a hundred times while grandma was alive (she was always very upset that she had to steal to feed her kids) but I never heard that the kids didn't like the cabbage.

[Colleen]

It is late and I have been reading too many posts attacking my child, myself, my apparently incorrect parenting styles and how my dh and myself handle our child and his food issues. You would not appreciate this same done to you so please, out of respect for others, do not do it in person or on a message board.

(((Stacy))), may I gently suggest that when you start to feel personally attacked by messages here, you walk away from the computer? I am sorry, truly, that you've been hurt be this thread. Sometimes we are in a place wherein we take the comments shared on this board far too personally. We may hear a grain of truth where we don't wish to hear it. We may hear judgment and feel an inability to properly explain or defend ourselves. Either way, I think we have to come here with an awareness that people have a right to discuss the subject at hand ~ and yes, sometimes the discussion will feel "judgmental" to us, when we disagree with the crux of someone's argument. But rest assured no one is attacking or lecturing anyone else.

Regarding this particular conversation, I honestly do not feel nestof3 or anyone else is passing judgment. They are sharing their opinions in response to Joann's question. It isn't a matter of insisting they know better than you how to raise your children. The reality is, people have opinions on issues. I think we're capable of sharing and reading those opinions without constantly couching them in qualifiers. And since you have experience that some here don't, it's good for you to share that here so all of us can see different angles of the subject.

Btw, why was it important to you to have a child eat a hot dog? I admittedly can't fathom sitting with a child all day long trying to get him to eat something ~ particularly a hot dog.;) Or was it just that you couldn't understand his refusal and wanted to make him eat it...?

[Colleen]

I do think the ease with which we can obtain a variety of foods allows us all to be pickier in a variety of ways.

[Colleen]

I'm sorry this conversation has been hurtful to some people. I wish that weren't the case because as a "foodie", I find the subject fascinating.

But, I stand by what I said that MOST picky eaters could truly be less picky.

I agree. For that matter, all of us ~ even those who don't consider ourselves "picky" eaters could be less picky. As someone else noted, the simple fact that we have a myriad of foods at our immediate disposal ~ that degree of selection allows us to be "picky", though perhaps not in the sense we're discussing here.

I'd like to know how common "picky eaters" are in less wealthy nations....Having all of these choices is a rather new thing when you think about it. I think these are valid questions to ask.

Yes, they're interesting questions.

[Mrs Mungo]

What if we were to turn this situation around? What if this were an adult we were talking about?

I have friends who won't eat pork-mainly due to some influence from books or tv shows but some for religious reasons. Are they just being "picky"? Would they eat it if they were starving? Probably but does that mean we should force it on them to make them less picky?

I stated already that I don't like mushrooms or mussels because of the spongy texture, I find it icky. Would I be able to eat them if I were on a desert island with nothing to eat except mushrooms and mussels? I'm sure I would but I probably wouldn't enjoy it. Does this mean my hubby should cook them up and make me sit until I eat them all up?

Yes, we are a society that caters to people. We are a society that is spoiled. We are a culture that *generally* doesn't want for our basic needs. Those things are true. However, they are as *much* true for adults as they are for children.

Is there a single adult here who would eat *anything* handed to them under any circumstances? I certainly couldn't do it when we lived in Germany. When I was in the hospital after one of my births I was given this stuff they make that is essentially clear, flavorless gelatin with chunks of processed meat. :ack2:

We had one friend who has had to eat some very strange things in the name of being diplomatic with leaders in other countries and has excused himself to vomit it up in the bathroom afterward. That story is even worse wen you know he will happily eat bugs or any number of things I sure wouldn't eat.

Much of what we eat is influenced by our culture. People in some countries would think you *insane* for eating milk that's been sitting around so long it's hard and moldy. I think some of the things people eat in other countries are insane...or at least icky and don't taste very good.

Our first food, our culture, our experiences, the popular (and unpopular) foods in our homes growing up, our biology (some people really do taste more than others), all sorts of things play a factor. I *do* think some adults are *really* unadventurous in their eating. At a party I've seen adults pass over things like dolmas (made by my Turkish friend, wow, so tasty!) just because they've never had them and think it sounds gross. BUT just because I think they are unadventurous for even *trying* some foods there are foods *I* would never eat so how can I judge?

[Colleen]

I have friends who won't eat pork-mainly due to some influence from books or tv shows but some for religious reasons. Are they just being "picky"?

No, not in my opinion. I seriously doubt when Joann posed this question she was referring to people who have a select few foods they intentionally choose to avoid.

I stated already that I don't like mushrooms or mussels because of the spongy texture, I find it icky. Would I be able to eat them if I were on a desert island with nothing to eat except mushrooms and mussels? I'm sure I would but I probably wouldn't enjoy it. Does this mean my hubby should cook them up and make me sit until I eat them all up?

Again, you're referring here to two food products. I think it's a major stretch to categorize that as being picky.

Yes, we are a society that caters to people. We are a society that is spoiled. We are a culture that *generally* doesn't want for our basic needs. Those things are true. However, they are as *much* true for adults as they are for children.

Right. Several of us have mentioned that.:)

Is there a single adult here who would eat *anything* handed to them under any circumstances?

I doubt it. You're describing two ends of the spectrum.

[Snickerdoodle]

One of my children is the orally sensitive, overactive gag reflex, would rather starve than eat, multiple food allergy type.

It is a tough row to hoe and I wouldn't wish these kind of food issues on anyone.

[Snickerdoodle]

Is there a single adult here who would eat *anything* handed to them under any circumstances?

I think my husband would fit this bill.

[Mrs Mungo]

I doubt it. You're describing two ends of the spectrum.

Oh, I agree that I'm describing the other end of the spectrum there. Absolutely.

It's late for me (not early!) so let me try one more time.

I will agree that there are children who a) are allowed to be picky instead of eating healthy food or b) are not exposed to enough different foods which results in picky behavior.

We had a friend once who was a doctor whose daughter ate five things and they were things like: hot dogs, mac and cheese, grilled cheese sandwich, etc.

I have friends who don't cook at *all* and over half of their meals come from fast food joints. I've had people tell me they don't cook because they are "restaurant people." I have taught grown women (just out of mom's house and thrust into the life of a military wife) to make scrambled eggs and how to brown hamburger meat.

My kids are not particularly picky although there are things they won't eat. My eldest insists she doesn't like spinach or onions but she will eat them *in* things like lasagna. My middle daughter hates iceberg or romaine lettuce and will have nothing to do with it but will eat spinach, cooked or raw. My son mostly desires anything that previously had legs. He's a regular little caveman but he will eat most veggies if grudgingly at times.

My youngest sister's daughter? Is one of the pickiest children I've ever seen. She's *really* picky. She looks *horrified* (seriously, that's the only word for it) if you offer her something she's not sure she'll like. On the other hand you have my middle sister's daughter-she will lick her plate clean, ask for thirds and rave that it's the most delicious thing, ever.

My uncle insists he's a vegetarian but the truth is, he's just extremely picky and likes to use vegetarianism as an excuse to cover it up and he's an adult. The things I've actually seen him eat over the years include: bread, McDonald's french fries, a cheese enchilada, cheez-its and Dr Pepper.

Yes, some kids are spoiled. Yes, some parents don't cook. However, there are kids who (for whatever reason) don't like very many things and I don't think it's fair to make broad generalizations about the kids or their parents. I'm not saying *you* did this, but I think some people have in this thread.

[Joanne]

can't believe no one in this thread has mentioned autism.

Um, I did. In the OP. One of the reasons I think there is an increase in picky eaters is spectrum disorders.

Whatever it is that is causing more kids to be autistic -- that's the same thing that's causing more kids to be picky eaters. The two are related.

They *can* be related. Pickiness is certainly present in non special need children.

And for those of you who think picky eating is caused by some sort of child-centered style of parenting, or even because there is an abundance of food, that's because you don't have a kid like this.

That's not true. I have seen, in what is pretty broad experience with kids for several meals and snacks a day that child centered parenting IS one of the causes of picky eating.

[Kate in Arabia]

I don't know about anyone else, but I can distinctly remember as a child being forced to eat things I didn't like, being pushed to clean my plate, etc. etc., and I feel like I have such issues with food.. I wonder if in my case this food-and-kids battle is simply a pendulum swing away from things I grew up with?

I almost never push my kids to clean their plates, and beyond requiring that they taste everything, I never force them to eat anything either. They must be polite, and if they choose to eat something else it must be on their own steam (Cheerios, or fruit, or leftovers they can heat up on their own, etc. -- NOT cookies, chips, etc.).

[Danestress]

I am not picky and neither are my children.

But I have a level of compassion for this because I think about what it was like to be in the first trimester of pregnancy. So many foods seemed so gross. I could eat rice crispies. I could eat two bites of baked potato. Either of those was likely to come back up again, but I could choke them down.

Water seems horrifying. It actually just was so gross. I drank sprite (forced it down) and chewed on the occasional Pedialite Bar. I'm not sure why I didn't become dehydrated. I did loose 9 pounds the first trimester.

Anyway, pregnancy is temporary, but it does seem that there are foods that many women crave and foods that few women crave when they are severly morning sick. Most my friends that were in real, day long misery (morning had nothing to do with it for me and for others!) couldn't touch most vegetables. I loved vegetables and they were the mainstay of my then vegetarian diet. But they went out the window. I am kind of a thirsty person and drink a fair amount of water. Couldn't touch the stuff. Many women CAN eat ice cream, though. Crackers. Toasted white bread.

I guess I wonder if we are biologically designed for that, and maybe when we see children who want cake and cookies and won't eat a vegetable, it's not a susprirse to mother nature..... I wonder if those pickinesses in the sensory intensive child is somehow a manifestation of a miswiring of some kind of biological plan.

[amy g.]

I agree with Kate. As a result of my how picky I was growing up, I have adopted the stance, "we don't make anyone eat food that they don't like."

I do have a daughter with Asperger's, so I know how frustrating that can be. The only control I have put on my kids is what we buy. They can eat or not eat anything that is in the house, because we do not buy anything I don't want them to eat.

For me, this has allowed me to not have power struggles with them, but also not have them consume a diet of exclusively processed junk food.

[nestof3]

I'm not saying *you* did this, but I think some people have in this thread.

Yes, I am the one that did. I am now aware that there are children with extremely sensitive gag reflexes, that there are children who have sensory issues that make it impossible for them to eat certain foods, that autistic chidren can have sensititivty issues as well,

but for everyone I know who is a picky eater, I am 100% certain this is not the case. For these people it's all about what tastes the best, and that generally excludes vegetables. These people are unhealthy and apathetic about their health.

What I have noticed in this thread is many people who think that MOST of the pickiness is due to child-centered parenting and the battle to get children to enjoy healthy non-sweet foods when there are so many unhealthy choices will admit that there are some cases of severe food issues for certain health reasons (thank you for enlightening us)

BUT

I have only heard from perhaps one person who can say "Yes, my child cannot help his pickiness because of a compulsive disorder, autism, etc" but also post that there are many children who are just simply spoiled.

Why is that?

[Rhonda in TX]

He has sensory issues and one of the things it affects is food. A doctor once told me that some of these kids will need to be exposed to a food 50 times before they will like it.

We always insist DS try what we make. Sometimes he will like it once he starts eating it. If a food makes him gag, I do not force the issue. We just try again another day.

I was a very picky eater as a child. I thought I hated all vegetables. Then I discovered steamed veggies. Yum!! For me, it's all about the texture. Some foods literally make me gag.

[Jenny in Florida]

Actually, neither of my kids will eat the black beans. My daughter loves anything with chickpeas (hummus, various Indian-inspired foods, falafel), but won't touch most other beans with a 10-foot pole. And my son never met a legume he likes beyond the soy beans forming the basis of his soy milk.

But, yes, they are picky. Each of them has a relatively small number of things they will eat, and in combination with the ethical vegan stance, it makes it tough to feed them away from home.

They are getting better, though. And we learned a long time ago to simply de-emphasize food as a factor in social gatherings.

And, as I said, they are getting better as they get older.

[Tammyla]

Is there really an increase? My younger sister was so picky that she was malnourished enough to have her hair fall out with every brushing. The doc had to prescribe special vitamins until she expanded her repetiore. And my mother was no pushover. I can remember going to bed hungry on many a night because I didn't like the dinner she made (and dear old mom made some pretty disgusting stuff - liver and onions used to make me gag.) And I wasn't the picky one. I actually ate the overcooked mushy veggies she served.

I remember many kids at school who were very picky.


Oh, shudder. Liver & onions. :iagree: I'd rather not eat for a week. I think kids have always been picky or sensitive. People just talk it about it now.

[Jenny in Florida]

What's funny to me is that for the most part (I know there are a few rare examples) almost every child likes soda, ice cream, sugar cereal, chicken nuggets, cake, cookies, etc.

Again -- I know someone out there does not like the above mentioned, but I know FAR more people who have all of these "issues" with vegetables or lentils or oatmeal.

You're right, I cannot vouch for food allergies, autistic children and so forth.

BUT for the most part, I guarantee you that for MOST children, give them nothing to eat for two days and see if they decide to eat that "issue" food.

Well, you're right: Not only does my daughter not like most of the foods you mentioned (specifically, she will go thirsty rather than drink soda of any kind, never liked most cereals, and thinks most cookies and cakes and all frostings are "too sweet"), but most of those typical "kid foods" aren't even available in our house.

I made my own baby food from scratch for both kids. When my daughter was teeny, her favorite food was lima beans.

We're vegans and keep very little refined sugar in our home.

One of the few processed foods my kids ate a lot of when they were younger was canned lentil soup, and they have both eaten oatmeal (the real kind that you cook in a pot) an average of three days a week since they started eating solid foods.

Nonetheless, they are picky.

And, although I would never consider starving a child into submission for two days, I can tell you that they are also both incredibly strong-willed. And if I chose to make eating a specific food a battle, I might eventually win, but the damage done to our relationship--not to mention the health of the child--would be unacceptable to me.

Again, our rule is that we never force or require any child to eat or drink something he or she truly cannot stomach. I do, however, require them to eat a reasonably balanced variety chosen from among the range of healthy things I do keep on hand that they like.

[Just Me]

I haven't read every post, but do feel the need to chime in. I don't know if there are more picky eaters, as I was one as a child, and I knew others. I think maybe now kids are even "more" picky though.

My two oldest kids were once staying with some friends. They were 2 and 3 years old. The husband in the family cooked chicken and rice. All the kids sat down and cleaned their plates, except for my oldest son. He just sat quietly at the table, after trying the food. The other dad said, "PJ, you can't get up until you have eaten all of that food." Oldest ds said, "ok", and proceeded to sit there for 2 hours. He didn't get upset, didn't cry, didn't ask to get down, and didn't eat!! Finally, the dad gave up and let him down to play. My dd then proceeded to clean his plate for him! :001_smile: That dad commented on how resolute our ds was. I think that it is hard to understand the child's feelings if you haven't had a picky eater yourself.

When I was a kid, I only liked cheese pizza. My oldest ds only likes cheese pizza with no sauce. And, unlike others, he doesn't choose the "kid friendly, bad for you foods"

For example, he doesn't like soda, red meat, or most chicken nuggets. The only vegetable he can eat is cooked carrots. If I fix a supper he doesn't like, he has to make his own. He almost always chooses yogurt, fruit, and cheese, or a peanut butter sandwich. Sometimes he has a bowl of Raisin Bran with milk.

So, all said, he may be "picky", but he probably eats better than I do in a day! :001_huh: Oh, and my other two kids will eat things that I would never touch!!

[Just Me]

Oh, yeah, and FWIW - It drive my in-laws NUTS that he is a picky eater. My fil used to make the rudest comments about it, and my mil still praises our younger son for "how well he eats" in front of oldest ds! UGH!! :sneaky2:

[Pamela H in Texas]

coming in late. I think there are a number of reasons but I really think the biggest is poor parenting which seems to be at epidemic levels.

[StacyWithFourRugrats]

just wish I could really get one of those! :lol:

Yes, perhaps I am being a bit overly sensitive. Perhaps I am taking things to personally. And yes, people are entitled to their opinions. But let's just substitute another topic in place of "picky eaters" to see why I expected a little less judgement (and yes, some are being judgemental) from this board.

Put homeschooled children in place of picky eaters.

Someone comes onto this board stating they are really tired of hearing people say "You homeschool? But what about your children being socialized?? MOST homeschooled children I know are rude and seem to be unable to interact with other kids."

We have all heard these types of comments and can imagine a lot of different variations, but the person you are speaking to just can not get past the idea that your children are not like MOST of the homeschoolers (and yes, I am emphasizing "most" in all caps because when something online is in all caps it is shouting or putting an emphasis on a certain word to make it stand out)

If someone came to this board (and they have in the past I am sure) saying they were tired of hearing comments such as these, we would all then tell them that they were not being sensitive and that the people they speak to are just being judgemental and over-generalizing. We have all experienced it so we can understand.

Sooooo, my point (I think I have some somewhere, it is early and well, coffee and all that jazz), I was a bit disappointed that the same people who despise people who over-generalize and judge homeschooling families turn around and do the same to the group of families in the world with "picky eaters", for whatever reason.

Just because you believe all the families you know with picky eaters are this way because their parents may over-indulge their children or allow bad food habits, does not mean that MOST picky eaters are this way for the same reason. Statistically speaking, it is not a good sampling of the population for broad statements to be made.

So I guess what I am saying, and what "gets my goat" (where DID that phrase come from anyways?) is that I just wish the "dislike" of generalization and judgemental attitude in reference to homeschooling would carry over to other topics. Sure, you have the right to your opinion. Heck, the world would be pretty darn boring if we all thought the same. But please do not continue to tell me that MOST children are one way because this is what YOU have seen. That is not an opinion. This is the appearance of statistics wrapped around your opinion.

Now I need to go mow the dang yard. Already spring time. I really wish we would buy a riding lawn mower. How my world would be sooooooooooo much easier. Where is the lawn mower fairy when ya need one :lol:

[one l michele]

because of food allergies, oral allergy syndrome, and/or sensitivities. I have a geographical tongue and OAS. I probably have other sensitivities as well. The same is true with my children. I find it hard to figure out if they are simply being picky, or if there is a reason they don't want to eat that food, maybe they just don't feel right when eating it and don't know how to describe it or why?

[nestof3]

Stacy,

Will you forgive me for hurting your feelings? I understand what you are saying in your last post. I just wanted to clear up that I agree there are children and adults with very unique problems that go against the norm in every way. I am more aware of that now.

I do know in my cases that the pickiness is just a matter of holding out for something better, preference and even racism (yes, my father-in-law will not eat ethnic food b/c for the most part, he is racist). I think the thread started with "why the rise?" And I do think there is a rise. I am sure there have always been people with gag reflex issues and such, but there has been a rise with all sorts of things. Consider children who insist their parents buy a certain brand of shoes or clothes.

My brother and I were rather indulged people growing up. My brother refused to wear anything that wasn't namebrand! He refused to put his clean clothes away. He refused to clean his room. He was allowed to control everything, and I see my parents doing this all over again to my boys. This one will only drink from the red cup, the other has to have the green cup. This one will only have raspberry jelly, this one strawberry. Now, I do often make their sandwiches with their favorite jelly. I let them choose their breakfast cereal (from the healthy choices I buy), and I often ask them if they want milk of juice. I'm not a food control freak or anything.

A friend of ours once told the story of his daughter who was picky. The grandfather was getting a slice of cheese for her. A corner broke off and the father (the one telling the story) said, "You'll have to give her another slice." The grandfather asked why. The father said, "She won't eat a food if it is broken." Thankfully, the grandfather said "rubish" and gave it to her anyway. From then on, her parents realized they allowed the children to be so picky by indulging them.

[nestof3]

Someone comes onto this board stating they are really tired of hearing people say "You homeschool? But what about your children being socialized?? MOST homeschooled children I know are rude and seem to be unable to interact with other kids."


I take these comments with a grain of salt because if you confront these people (as I have) you find out many of them don't know any homeschooled children or they only know one or two. Not exactly a decent sampling in my opinion.

Most of these comments, I have also found, come from people whose children are equally rude.

[Doran]

What if there were limited or no choices? Did our ancestors sit at the table and refuse to eat what was there before them? If we knew that whatever food was offered was the ONLY food we'd get to eat that day, or the next day, or the one after that, would we turn it down? Sure, we'd be tired of it. But, really...???

I know this comes off as flying in the face of all those who deal with sensory issues, gag reflex problems, allergies, and things of that nature. But, I earnestly wonder how we managed as a people when we had fewer (no) options. Maybe some of the kids back then who "failed to thrive" had sensory issues which caused them to eat poorly, and we just didn't understand that at the time.

I'm not denying the reality of certain issues and disorders. But, I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that a great deal of the pickiness we see today is product of our food culture.

Cookie Monster said it first! I totally agree. Has anyone ever done a controlled study on this topic? I'd really love to see the results of that.

Doran



is availability of food.

You can get any food you crave or desire, whether white and bland, crunchy and bland, sour, soft, hard, spicy, and all of it cooked just to your liking, very easily. If you don't like what you have, you can get what you do like.

That is the number one reason, in my view. A parent whose kid prefers hard, bland food can find many easy to fix meals that fit the bill. Pick a different preference, and the outcome is the same.

All other valid reasons would be naught if there were fewer affordable alternative choices in the supermarkets. Really.

The second reason is our distance from food as consumers. In a very short amount of time (just the past few decades) consumers have been drastically removed from their source of food in complete ways. This results in kids growing up not realizing where their steak and chicken really come from, or what entails raising their plate of vegetables. Not only do they never grow it, they've never even seen it grown. And you can forget about canning. They don't even know what that is. And their moms prepare food with them out of the room, not helping. And in a restaurant the food is cooked somewhere out of sight.

The result is kids who don't have a relationship with their food. They don't really know what it is, where it came from, or why it looks and tastes the way it does.

[Cindyg]

Why would a mom spend all day trying to get a kid to eat a hotdog? Well, I can't say why Stacy did, but I can sympathize with this. Mom knows hotdogs taste good. Mom knows all kids love hotdogs. Mom reasons that if her kid would just TRY a hotdog, he, too, would find it good. Then he would have another food in is very limited food repertoire. (It is very hard to feed these children!) Plus, if he could TRY the hotdog and, therefore, LIKE the hotdog, he would have a good food experience with would make him more open to trying another food, he would learn to trust mom with food choices, and he would be one food closer to eating like a normal kid.

I know someone above said that all kids like junkfood. No kid refuses junkfood. (And that's evidence that picky eating equates with being spoiled.) Not true. We've had to do this with pudding, frosting, Jello, canned fruit, cotton candy, pizza, yes hotdogs! Dozens and dozens of foods. You might think it would be a blessing if your child didn't like junkfood. It's not. It's a blessing if your child choses healthy food. But it's not a blessing when your child CAN'T eat food that children all over America are served and enjoy. It's very embarrasing for a 10YO to, for instance, go to a pizza party, be very hungry, but not be able to tolerate anything served. It can reduce a 10YO to tears, which is further embarrassing.

It's oral sensitivity. It's a genuine condition. These kids need help and their parents deserve MEDALS, not criticism.

[Jenny in Atl]

What if there were limited or no choices? Did our ancestors sit at the table and refuse to eat what was there before them? If we knew that whatever food was offered was the ONLY food we'd get to eat that day, or the next day, or the one after that, would we turn it down? Sure, we'd be tired of it. But, really...???

I know this comes off as flying in the face of all those who deal with sensory issues, gag reflex problems, allergies, and things of that nature. But, I earnestly wonder how we managed as a people when we had fewer (no) options. Maybe some of the kids back then who "failed to thrive" had sensory issues which caused them to eat poorly, and we just didn't understand that at the time.

I'm not denying the reality of certain issues and disorders. But, I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that a great deal of the pickiness we see today is product of our food culture.

Cookie Monster said it first! I totally agree. Has anyone ever done a controlled study on this topic? I'd really love to see the results of that.

Doran

I too wonder if these problems have increased due to our abundance of choice. Our food has also changed so much, genetic manipulation, importing foods which were not "native" to a certain area's diet, the chemicals in our soil, etc

Maybe a limited diet of foods our ancestors eat over generations, was really the best for us, and not the ability to eat everything and anything we want?

[Jackie in AR]

is availability of food.

You can get any food you crave or desire, whether white and bland, crunchy and bland, sour, soft, hard, spicy, and all of it cooked just to your liking, very easily. If you don't like what you have, you can get what you do like.

That is the number one reason, in my view. A parent whose kid prefers hard, bland food can find many easy to fix meals that fit the bill. Pick a different preference, and the outcome is the same.

All other valid reasons would be naught if there were fewer affordable alternative choices in the supermarkets. Really.

The second reason is our distance from food as consumers. In a very short amount of time (just the past few decades) consumers have been drastically removed from their source of food in complete ways. This results in kids growing up not realizing where their steak and chicken really come from, or what entails raising their plate of vegetables. Not only do they never grow it, they've never even seen it grown. And you can forget about canning. They don't even know what that is. And their moms prepare food with them out of the room, not helping. And in a restaurant the food is cooked somewhere out of sight.

The result is kids who don't have a relationship with their food. They don't really know what it is, where it came from, or why it looks and tastes the way it does.

Great points. Aren't we all picky about something?

Take homeschooling curriculum. All of us are pickier than homeschoolers from 10 or 15 years ago simply because of the wealth of materials available. And we don't have to drag ourselves to a convention or a book store to purchase it; we can sit in our pj's, view samples, and purchase in the comfort of our own homes.

And there isn't always something wrong with being picky.

[Rebecca in VA]

One of my friends has a child with Down Syndrome, and we've discussed this. Her son is the pickiest eater ever. He insists on pizza day in, day out. My friend (who does not want to indulge picky behavior) has tried to starve him out, but it never works. This boy would rather starve to death than eat something he doesn't want.

The doctor has told my friend that back in the old days, many DS children *did* starve themselves to death, or die of malnutrition. And yes, they *were* considered failure-to-thrive children.

Perhaps that's nature's way of dealing with finickiness? Sort of a survival of the fittest scenario? And maybe nowadays, since we can and do indulge finicky appetites with all sorts of foods, these children are staying alive.

[Doran]

One of my friends has a child with Down Syndrome, and we've discussed this. Her son is the pickiest eater ever. He insists on pizza day in, day out. My friend (who does not want to indulge picky behavior) has tried to starve him out, but it never works. This boy would rather starve to death than eat something he doesn't want.

The doctor has told my friend that back in the old days, many DS children *did* starve themselves to death, or die of malnutrition. And yes, they *were* considered failure-to-thrive children.

Perhaps that's nature's way of dealing with finickiness? Sort of a survival of the fittest scenario? And maybe nowadays, since we can and do indulge finicky appetites with all sorts of foods, these children are staying alive.


While I don't deny that what the doctor told your friend is accurate, I'd also be curious to know where he has read or learned about this. It fascinates me, really. I also feel great sympathy for the parents of these children. It has to be so hard for everyone, particulary because of just what we've seen here in this thread...the fact that it's hard for the bystander to know when picky is a choice and when it is hard wired, kwim?

I'm also thinking that "back in the day", it wouldn't have been pizza the DS child would want every day. So, then...what?...salt cured beef? Or, potatoes? Turnips? I wonder.

We could take that "survival of the fittest" argument into many different discussions - ones that would probably get even more heated than something like a picky eaters thread. But, basically, yes -- I think there was a time when people with difficulties like eating "disorders" (for lack of a better term in my head just now) would not have lived long, and their treatment would have been far worse than what happens now.

Doran

[Janet in WA]

What I have noticed in this thread is many people who think that MOST of the pickiness is due to child-centered parenting and the battle to get children to enjoy healthy non-sweet foods when there are so many unhealthy choices will admit that there are some cases of severe food issues for certain health reasons (thank you for enlightening us)

BUT

I have only heard from perhaps one person who can say "Yes, my child cannot help his pickiness because of a compulsive disorder, autism, etc" but also post that there are many children who are just simply spoiled.

Why is that?Well, maybe we haven't answered it in so many words, but we have stated it over and over, both here and in the "other" thread from which this one spun off. What we've been saying is that because of our experiences with our "picky" children, we've become more tolerant and less judgmental. We don't tend to label others' children as "spoiled" or say they are our "pet peeves". That's why you haven't heard us say that -- we don't say that, and wish others didn't either.

[Amy in NH]

I was a picky eater, but it was a sensory issue for me (of course there wasn't any understanding of this back in the '70s). I wouldn't eat certain textures, and didn't like my food touching (combination of textures). I also couldn't stand itchy fabrics or tags in my clothes, and had dermatological allergies.

I think the perception of more picky eaters comes from parents catering to their picky kids, and from wives catering to their picky husbands.

[Joanne]

Aren't we all picky about something?

There is a difference between food preferences and pickyness. And there are degrees of picky.

[Margaret in CO]

"Some mothers now, and in the past have instinctively taken the time to work with a child. Just one bite... chew it up, see how it feels in your mouth? Can you taste it? You WORK to get your child to eat good foods."

Not any moms *I* knew growing up! Mine included! The rules were: no nasty comments, you tried everything on your plate, and if you chose not to eat what was there, well, you were going to be hungry before the next meal came around! And we didn't have snacks. I remember vividly once a week, we were allowed to split one pop between three children and we each got a handful of potato chips. I can remember three times ordering pizza growing up!

[lovemyboys]

The last thing, related to the first? The development of "kid food". I truly believe that "kid food" deadens the palate, fuels unhealthy craving and sets the more prone up for a limited palate. Culprits: mac-n-chz, pizza, nuggets, burgers, hot dogs, grilled cheese.

This is so true! Offering children such a limited, catered-to diet, especially when in public, of fried, breaded and high-sodium, high-sugar foods really has changed the way children eat! Restaurants used to have a limited menu of children's options that were just milder and smaller portions than the main menu.

When I was about 12, I remember begging to order a nice chicken dish from the "adult" menu only to discover that it had been prepared with white wine. :tongue_smilie:


Various food allergies and sensitivities have been around in our family and friends for years, including one ds who is particular about certain foods and has an amazingly keen ability to taste and smell foods. But this ds ate a tremendous variety when he was little, everything from tofu to avocado, vegetables, melons, meats, fish, he tried most anything.

Somewhere before the age of 5, he developed a couple foods he didn't care for and I was pregnant and got lazy, honestly. He went from this fabulous eater down to two basic food (though broad) groups so quickly. I know that if I'd tried a bit harder, offered more variety, worked to keep introducing and make sure I kept his old favorites around, he wouldn't have gotten so limited.

So I think, certainly in my case, and perhaps in others, that our concern for keeping our dc healthy and eating, coupled with busy lifestyles and a more kid-centered culture can really contribute to catering to a child's appetite much more than is necessary, desirable or healthy for that child. We're still working our way back to a more strongly balanced diet here.

Again, all of this is a moot point where serious food allergies, health concerns and serious sensitivities are the case.

[KristineIN]

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. It's interesting how people perceive food differently. I think sometimes food has to do with how it's prepared too. I grew up on a farm with lots of fresh fruits & vegetables, beef. My grandma was a really good cook and I learned a lot from her. She rarely followed recipes. Now some stuff, she made, I just did not care for. Her zucchini casserole was one of them. Dh was raised that you ate what was on your plate, if you didn't, you got it for breakfast the next morning. There are a few things that he will not eat now, but the main one is egg plant, he really doesn't care of olives or lima beans either. His mom was an ok cook, but they eat very bland food. (I season things well with spices and I cringe when we are eating a bowl of vegetable soup and everyone is saying how good it is, but I have to add saltine crackers because it has no flavor. (the veg. soup that his parents fix) My children like to try different things, always have, don't really turn their nose up at things. Dd doesn't care for fried/scrambled eggs, but loves egg salad & Deviled eggs. I think I cook a pretty good variety of things and we try different things fairly often. My children haven't bee "forced" to eat things, but are expected to try everything on their plate. Usually if I don't like it, they aren't going to like it, but there's very few things that I don't care for. They will even tell me, mom this needs more garlic, or needs more flavor.

Kristine

[lovemyboys]

but they eat very bland food.

I think I cook a pretty good variety of things and we try different things fairly often. My children haven't bee "forced" to eat things, but are expected to try everything on their plate. Usually if I don't like it, they aren't going to like it, but there's very few things that I don't care for. They will even tell me, mom this needs more garlic, or needs more flavor.


That's one thing that's been really interesting for me with ds. He actually loves very spicy food and has a wonderfully keen sense of spices and herbs. I can't sneak too much into a dish he's familiar with because he can really taste the ingredients, you know like a thin layer of refried beans under the meat in the taco.

But he will go through periods when a particular food doesn't appeal to him or he switches from eating pears whole to preferring to eat them peeled and with a fork.

So I go with the flow. Our rule is that you try it, a decent sized bite, of what's on your plate. I won't force dc to finish their plates or gag down something they clearly dislike.

I guess my goal here is for them to be able to behave around people without a lot of drama or insults for the cook (me or someone else). And I do remind them of the wonderful foods they've discovered like salmon -- but wouldn't know unless they'd tasted them.:D

Like I said before, I'm working to correct overindulging them when they were younger. If I get lazy and don't offer enough vegetables, they're just as happy with the mac and cheese, kwim? So I can't blame it all on their being too picky or having issues. And I'm definitely in the camp of sending along food if it's my dc who may not eat what's offered.