Potter's School English 1 vs Write at Home 7th

[Handmaiden]

(x-post from K-8th board)

I'm looking for an online writing class for my ds who will be 7th in the fall. He is a reluctant writer (math/science guy) still learning basic structure, and is a bit sloppy on grammar and punctuation. He's got potential, I think, just needs some handholding.

We've done IEW in the past, and he is currently going through MCT materials and is in the Write at Home's 6th grade class. I have mixed feelings about this class. He is learning and I don't hear complaints, but it doesn't seem to require a lot from him. He gets one assignment a week, on which he typically spends 15-20 minutes a day.

I am debating whether to progress to Write at Home's 7th grade but wonder if it will be too light. I have heard good things about Potter's School upper level writing classes but not English 1. I'm wondering about the level of rigor of this class; will it challenge him in a good way or will it be too hard?

Does anyone have feedback on one or both of these classes?

TIA!!

[kpacademy]

I have a high school son in Potters School English 3 right now. He also did Write at Home several years ago. I don't remember if it was 6th grade or 7th grade. I much prefer the Potters School Class. It combines grammar and writing and has a literature component. I would assume that English 1 is the same.

I prefer actually having an online live class to just receiving comments from a writing coach. Live online instruction gives the student an opportunity to ask questions and join in the discussion.

The English 3 at Potters School has a very thorough grammar component with diagramming. I grade the grammar and diagramming worksheets and upload the scores. I do edit my son's papers but am continually amazed by the comments the teacher makes -- things I did not pick up when I was editing the paper.

My 7th grade son is currently in Veritas Press' Grammar and Writing III. They are using Shurley Grammar 7 and IEW. The online class is 1 1/2 hours twice each week.

Let me know if I can answer any further questions.

[Handmaiden]

Thanks Karen, this is very helpful! I didn't think about the live class component; that's a good point.

How encouraging are the PS teachers? Being that writing is not his best subject, I want to be sure that he gets constructive yet gentle feedback. I don't want him to get discouraged, but I do want him to be challenged.

[kpacademy]

My son is a 10th grader taking English 3 at Potters school -- I think 10th is the last grade they recommend for that class. He's more math/sciency so I just wanted to be sure that he had a good grasp of grammar. But I like the fact that the class includes the literature and writing.

I will say that compared to other classes he has had, I do think the Potters School class is quite challenging. He's hanging on to an A in there by his chinny, chin chin!

He has yet to make an A on a writing assignment. He makes mid to high B's. I would say that the teacher is gentle in her comments. She has a grading rubic so he knows what she is looking for in his writing.

She usually includes with each writing assignment an example of a similar paper which I think helps my son have some idea of what is expected.

I just pulled up his last paper: He didn't underline the title, put something in italics that should have been in quotes, had a subject/verb agreement error, an unclear topic sentence in one paragraph, and way too many be verbs plus a few other things! Those be verbs kill his grade every paper - only 2 allowed per paragraph. He made an 87. However, she doesn't include only errors in her comments. She has commented on the topic sentences that she likes or wording that she likes. The grading rubic includes voice, word choice, fluency, presentation, conventions with how many points each area is worth.

The teacher has always been available via email when I have had questions about something. I will probably put my rising 8th grader in one of their high school grammar classes when he hits high school.

Now, I have not actually sat in on one of the classes so I can't say for sure how much instruction is occuring, but he doesn't seem to struggle with the grammar worksheets that I grade each week. He's not the type of kid to just study on his own for the sake of knowledge so she must be covering what he needs to know to do the weekly assignments. lol

[Heather in AL]

My dd is in the W@H 7th grade comp class now, and I suspect it's similar to what your ds is doing in the 6th grade class.

My dd only spends about 15-20 minutes *the day the assignment is due* on her writing and consistently scores 5s and a 4 here and there. The exception to that is when she had a report that required a little research to make an outline. That took about 30 minutes.

Several of the assignments have been very vague. The most vague one is the one she is working on now--- create a pirate map--- there was nothing given on where one should start, how to write it, etc, so after the first draft was given back, there were questions she was supposed to address in her edits, but to her (and ME!) it all made perfect sense, and if I had her paper, I would be able to locate the treasure. Another assignment was something like 'it was a dark and stormy night' and the student had to finish the story. So, she cut and pasted the 'starting info' and continued her story. Her coach spent the next two edits *correcting the intro's information*, which was given right in the assignment. :confused: We didn't get that at all.

Despite the way my post might sound, I'm not unhappy with W@H.I have been VERY happy with the writing coach's feedback; I have two kids in the year-long classes and the feedback/critiquing from both coaches has really made both kids think harder about what they write. They just don't write that much during the year. I won't be using their year-long courses any more, as they aren't what we are looking for/need at this point. YMMV.

[Laura in CA]

How encouraging are the PS teachers? Being that writing is not his best subject, I want to be sure that he gets constructive yet gentle feedback. I don't want him to get discouraged, but I do want him to be challenged.

My two sons are in Potter's English 2 right now, after taking Writer's Workshop and English 1. I would say the teachers bend over backwards to be gentle and encouraging. There are always a number of boys in each class who really don't like writing, and the teachers seem to know that and just work to have them improve, even if they will never be writing at the level of some of the other kids in the class. Like Karen says, they are rigorous about format & grading, but the comments have always been professional and polite. We are *very* happy with all of the courses we've taken with Potter's.

The children are also assigned partners within the class, and have to give their partners feedback on the papers they write. The teachers stress the need for the kids' comments to be polite and positive. No negative feedback is allowed. At first the whole partner business seemed like an unnecessary complication (emailing back and forth, compatibility between Macs & PCs, etc.), but recently one of my sons commented that giving feedback to a fellow student had taught him several things, including how to analyze writing (easier at first with someone else's writing), and how to give constructive criticism. Potter's calls it being "ESP" (encouraging, specific, and polite), and my 13-year-old son just told me that he thought that knowing how to give ESP feedback would help him for the rest of his life ;-)

Also, the teachers we've had (three so far) have, for the most part, paired boys with other boys, which my sons greatly preferred ;-)

My sons did receive harsh criticism on papers they wrote for a tutor in town, which totally deflated them, and it was then that they really appreciated the value of Potter's emphasis on politeness.

I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

~Laura

[sunnyca]

Laura,
What Potter's English teachers have you had? My dd is in English 1 right now and I am interested to know about English 2 instructors.

[Psalm 34:3]

We have had Mrs. Frederick (Eng 1 and Eng2) and Mrs. Massie (Eng 1). I would say they both teach well and give very helpful, but gentle feedback. I would be very happy with either of them for a teacher in the future. I know that Mrs. Frederick pairs boys with boys, and I am pretty sure that Mrs. Massie did the same.

I too have been highly impressed by the teacher comments, how they are extremely positive but include comments I would not think of. The one 90 minute class per week works well for us and the instruction is very solid. The live class has also allowed them to do presentations to their classmates in real time. I would estimate that the Eng1 work load is ~ an hour a day, possibly more during the 2 units with novels.

Speaking of my teachers, both my dds love Mr. Lemon (they've had Physical Science, Biology and Asia Survey.) He also teaches a Junior High World History class that my dd was interested in, but did not fit in her schedule. Good luck as you choose classes.

Good luck ~ Debbie

[Laura in CA]

We've had

Mrs Ives -- Writer's Workshop (she was wonderful)
Mrs Neuman -- English 1 (also wonderful, and we even got to meet her when we were in Phoenix)
Miss Shearon -- English 2 (the boys *really* like her teaching style)

In fact, one of my sons just asked me if he could have Miss Shearon next year for English 3. (He noticed that she also teaches English 3.) It surprised me -- this is the first time he's asked for a certain teacher (part of that is his maturing and realizing how the whole 'school' thing works!). Miss Shearon has what I would call a 'jocular' style which works particularly well, I think, with junior-high boys.

And we've heard great things about Mr Lemon! We ended up taking a class with someone else because of scheduling issues, but apparently he's very funny and very good.

~Laura

[Handmaiden]

Thanks so much, everyone, for the helpful feedback! I'm really excited to look further into the Potter's class after reading about your experiences!

I did think of a couple more questions. First, is it difficult to get a good grade (A or B) in their classes, particularly for a reluctant writer?

Also, we are currently using MCT for Language Arts (Town level grammar, vocab, poetry, writing) and I do like its approach. I was hoping to continue using MCT, but it sounds like Potter's takes quite a bit of time. Would it be overkill to use both? Is grammar taught as a separate subject or is it incorporated into the writing assignments?

Thank you, again!

[sunnyca]

Thank you for the teacher feedback. We've had three instructors and only one that we would choose again; it helps to know there are many other great ones to choose from.

Handmaiden, my dd is in English 1 now and it is heavy on the grammar. First semester was intense but I think they received parent feedback and have toned it down a bit this second semester. Students receive in class instruction, have a PPT to go through during the week with at least 2 practice assignments and sentence diagramming. The sentences are not easy and used to be 10 -12 but last week there were only 5 and this week none at all. Maybe next year will not be as busy; we were told that they were trying a new grammar approach this year so they'll fine tune for next year. Long story short, I would not do more grammar :)

The feedback has not been as great for us as I see others have received. It has also been very slow in coming which has been a discouragement to my used-to-be-eager writer :( Most papers took 17-25 days to be returned with comments. The teacher teaches many sections and just cannot manage to do it quicker and the quantity of feedback is probably more sparse than what seems like others are getting. She is nice enough but I would look for someone who does not have a big load.

My dd is hanging on to her A but does not enjoy the class even though she does not mind writing. My ds has had a great teacher this year and I think Potter's has a great program so we will probably continue. I don't mean to discourage you... :)