How candid are you with your dc's teachers, and how is that working out for you?

[BabyBre]

Since day one in public school, I've made a huge effort to spend time in my dc's classrooms. I spend nearly two full days each week at the school, my intention being that I know what they're learning. There's hardly a day that goes by that I don't hear something in the classroom or elsewhere in the school that doesn't make me glad I'm there.

But after two and a half years of letting teachers send me to the copy room far too often, I've decided that my new approach will be much more candid. Instead of merely stating that I prefer working in the classroom, I'm going in next year with, "I'm here to listen. If I can be helpful at the same time, great!"

Anyone else take this much more honest and open approach? How's that working out for you as far as the treatment and/or attitude from your teachers? I'm curious because I'm also employed at the school part-time, so these people are also my coworkers.

[Elisa]

I would not admit to being there to spy. Especially since you also work there. But you could express an interest in doing something in the classroom. Or if you want to sit in the classroom without volunteering you could say you have a book to finish or some organizing or some other project to do.

[jcs]

I agree with Elisa, they would rather feel that you are there to help and assist them than watching them. Maybe you can say that you would rather work directly in the classroom and assist them with classroom duties. If other parents volunteer they can be sent to do copies, etc.

[LibrarianMom]

As a parent volunteer you are there to do grunt work for the teachers so they can do their job of teaching. I would be hesitant to be as candid as you are suggesting as you may find you become less than welcome in their classrooms.

[Carol in Cal.]

... they will think that you have a right to listen in their classroom.

The fact is, as parents, I believe that we have every right to be with our children all the time, but we can't necessarily enforce that right in the classroom with all those other children and the teacher also present. So you might lose the right to be in the classroom at all if you take that stance.

A more effective approach might be to identify some classroom helping skills that you would like to offer to the teacher--reading aloud to a small group, listening to one child read aloud, cutting out crafts for later, setting up science demonstrations and experiments, providing an art activity that correlates with their social studies lesson, organizing a game or two at recess, singing with the kids, that kind of thing. That way you can help the teacher IN THE CLASSROOM, where you want to be, more so than just hanging out and being available for copying and such. Really, it's a value proposition that you're putting forward if you word it like that, and the teacher is more likely to let you stay if you are making life easier for her than if you're neutral and possibly critical as just an observer.

[BabyBre]

Well, that's what I have been doing over the last two years, and my teachers have continually let me down. My dc are bright and academic challenges in the classroom have to be manufactured for them because they don't come from the curricula. I conference with their teachers, most of whom say they appreciate my involvement in my dc's education (and I'm sure they do because my kids aren't on their "qualified" list) and give the impression that I'm respected as their advocate. They always promise they can and will make sure the kids are challenged on a regular basis, but as the year progresses, this promise isn't always fullfilled. That's why I'm in the classroom. Not to run copies, but to be my children's advocate, which it's obvious they need.

I'm not too concerned with not being welcome in the classroom. I'm not disruptive, certainly not nasty or disrespectful to the teachers or anyone else. But I'm beginning to care less and less, as I watch this system fail even my very bright children, about tiptoeing around what's customary or typical. We're very fortunate this year to have two teachers who I feel truely do respect my role as my kids' first educator, but even they are not fullfilling their promises to challenge them. I understand they're charged with the very difficult task of ensuring that the full range of abilities in their classrooms meet standard, but does that mean the ones who can meet that standard and then some are doomed to sit idle six hours a day?

I've had mixed responses when I suggest unconventional ways to avoid this. For instance, my ds7 (in 1st grade last year) went to a 2nd grade classroom for math class at my suggestion. That worked great for both teachers, our principal, ds, and me. He's currently not in this arrangement this year (although I'm now considering it) because that 2nd grade teacher promised me she would keep his little math mind moving if she had him this year. She said she'd "love to see how far she could take him" (and I got teary eyed!). Maybe that's turned out to be too difficult, but I wouldn't know that if I hadn't made room in the back of the classroom to correct those spelling tests rather than heading to the volunteer workroom with the other moms.

My teachers know why I prefer to be in the classroom and it's usually not a problem for them. I'm very involved in my kids' education and there's nothing wrong with my wanting to know what my kids are being taught. In fact, I consider it my responsibility. I do state openly why I'm there, but so far I've never refused to do work that keeps me in the workroom, put work off during class time to take home later, or anything to that effect. I'm just wondering what kind of treatment others have received if they've been very upfront about being in the classroom. I'm getting the impression that many would expect hostile treatment. I have to say, if a teacher or administrator ever forcibly kept me out of the classroom, my kid would be coming with me!!

[kathkath]

As a parent volunteer you are there to do grunt work for the teachers so they can do their job of teaching. I would be hesitant to be as candid as you are suggesting as you may find you become less than welcome in their classrooms.

:iagree:

[kathkath]

Teachers do the best they have with what they have. Even the best of the best teachers can never be a private tutor. It's the same way with swim lessons. I expect one thing in a group swim lesson, and I expect another in a private lesson.

I loved teaching when I was a teacher, but this is part of the reason I would prefer not to go back if I don't need to.

[Sahamamama]

I'm getting the impression that many would expect hostile treatment.

We don't have ours in PS (too young, anyway), but from what I've heard my sister and others say, yes, I would expect hostile treatment if I openly stated that I was in the classroom to "observe." Now that I think about it, I don't like feeling this way, as it sounds so negative and oppositional. Truly, I respect the work that PS teachers do, but from what I've heard, I would not assume that I have "rights" as a parent that would (in reality) line up with my own expectations. IOW, you might want to check your "rights" first, then make your "declarations" later, based on your research. HTH. Good luck!

[BabyBre]

... they will think that you have a right to listen in their classroom.

The fact is, as parents, I believe that we have every right to be with our children all the time, but we can't necessarily enforce that right in the classroom with all those other children and the teacher also present. So you might lose the right to be in the classroom at all if you take that stance.

A more effective approach might be to identify some classroom helping skills that you would like to offer to the teacher--reading aloud to a small group, listening to one child read aloud, cutting out crafts for later, setting up science demonstrations and experiments, providing an art activity that correlates with their social studies lesson, organizing a game or two at recess, singing with the kids, that kind of thing. That way you can help the teacher IN THE CLASSROOM, where you want to be, more so than just hanging out and being available for copying and such. Really, it's a value proposition that you're putting forward if you word it like that, and the teacher is more likely to let you stay if you are making life easier for her than if you're neutral and possibly critical as just an observer.


Wow, I'm really shocked at the responses (not just yours, Carol, but I hadn't read it before my last post). I suppose I was in that place when we were new to educating, but as a 7-year homeschooler/afterschooler I haven't been in that "mercy of the public schools" state for quite a while. Maybe it comes from Washington's homeschool law (which I hear is quite liberal compared to other states) that has taught me that I am responsible for my kids' education by virtue of the fact that I have options (i.e. homeschool, public school, private school, alternative ed, online ed, part-time enrollment, etc.), combined with my experience in the public schools after having homeschooled my kids that's taught me that I CAN teach them as well or better than the public school system.

Since when do parent teachers throw the towel in on accountability with regard to education? And when will anyone hold the public schools accountable? I'm not ashamed to do it. If more parents would grow the kahunas to stand inside of our classrooms, maybe public education wouldn't be in such a sad state. Just because my kids go to a taxpayer funded school doesn't mean I'm freed of responsibility. I just need to gather different information now - I need to know that school, those teachers, and what my kids are being taught - in order to assess their education.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm getting the impression that many would expect hostile treatment. I have to say, if a teacher or administrator ever forcibly kept me out of the classroom, my kid would be coming with me!!

And it's always up to the teacher, as best as I can tell, whether parents are allowed, and whether a specific parent is allowed.

I have personal knowledge of a public school teacher who decided not to accept any parent help in the 4th grade classroom. A friend of mine who has always done that kind of volunteer work told him that at the beginning of the school year that she was available 1 day per week, and he said that he was not interested. I have personal knowledge of another public school teacher who told a specific parent that she was not welcome in her 5th grade DS's classroom, after that parent complained that her son was not being taught properly (I forget whether he was remedial or accelerated, but he was out of the mainstream, and the parent was always pushing for something out of the ordinary for him.) Now, this teacher was not being mean or vindictive--she has 27 other children to teach, at least two non-English home languages to deal with, and significant state standards to cover. Dealing with this one mom took her over the top with stress. She tried and tried and finally kicked her out.

So I know that teachers have a great deal of power in their classrooms, and parents are more likely to be able to participate if they appear to be helping rather than watching. It's not a question of whether they are hostile or not. It's just that they have power that we don't alway recognize until we come up against it.

[Carol in Cal.]

Since when do parent teachers throw the towel in on accountability with regard to education? And when will anyone hold the public schools accountable? I'm not ashamed to do it. If more parents would grow the kahunas to stand inside of our classrooms, maybe public education wouldn't be in such a sad state. Just because my kids go to a taxpayer funded school doesn't mean I'm freed of responsibility. I just need to gather different information now - I need to know that school, those teachers, and what my kids are being taught - in order to assess their education.

I'll bet you teach your kids better than anyone else does. I know that I do. And I think that schools should be accountable.

But, here's the difference.

I think that you should think about your objective and how best to accomplish it, and start from there. And to make sure that you can do that, you have to realize that teachers can assert specific powers IN THEIR OWN CLASSROOMS. So it's just prudent and strategic to take that into consideration when you're figuring out what to do. You can fight them on that, but by the time you win your child will be in another school. That doesn't mean you shouldn't fight, but it does mean that if it is crucial for your child that you be right there, there are better ways to accomplish that. If you want to establish the principle, and you know that your child will be just fine while you fight, that's another matter.

[dmmetler]

The problem with going in to observe (or even volunteering and surreptitiously observing) is that the federal FERPA laws pretty much say that no person without a need to know (parents, teachers in direct supervision of the child, administrators, and that's about it) is to be given access to a child's educational records unless the parent gives permission. Some schools have interpreted this down to the point of not publishing honor rolls, not posting graded papers, even 100% ones, and not allowing parent volunteers in the classroom if any work is going on that is being assessed-hearing a child answer an in-class question could be considered a violation should a parent want to push the issue. And courts have been grey as to whether volunteer paperwork is sufficient to protect the school or not, especially if special ed law falls into the mix on top of FERPA.

It can make it very hard for school personnel to walk the line between giving a parent their rights in their own child's education without violating the privacy laws.


Private schools aren't bound by this, but even then some private schools have similar policies, especially if they've got someone on the school board who does school law cases, and is therefore aware of everything that courts have deemed actionable when it happens in public schools.

I'm very glad I'm not actively teaching in public schools anymore.

[BabyBre]

Truly, I respect the work that PS teachers do, but from what I've heard, I would not assume that I have "rights" as a parent that would (in reality) line up with my own expectations. IOW, you might want to check your "rights" first, then make your "declarations" later, based on your research. HTH. Good luck!


OMG. The acceptance of the attitude that the government has rights to my child that supercede mine is shocking to me. I'm not a child abuser. I'm an involved parent, more of which the school district claims will be the answer to our 40% dropout rate.

Maybe I should have posted on the General board, rather than exclusively to afterschoolers. I'm looking for those parents who've had to fight the fight for their kids. (I thought I'd find them here, but maybe they're all full-time homeschoolers now! :lol:)

[Elisa]

I volunteer a couple of days a week and like you, I think my kids' education is more important than being liked by the teachers or the administration.

The thing is, if you tell the teachers that you are there to observe them, that puts them on the defensive. I think the teachers will not be as cooperative as they have been if you make them think they are being watched and evaluated. It is much better to have them on your side when you're advocating for special arrangements. And it sounds like you need to do that in math again. The curriculum and the teacher are probably just fine. I would approach it from the perspective that your child has taken a leap in math and the current approach is no longer working. Good luck!

[BabyBre]

I'll bet you teach your kids better than anyone else does. I know that I do. And I think that schools should be accountable.

But, here's the difference.

I think that you should think about your objective and how best to accomplish it, and start from there. And to make sure that you can do that, you have to realize that teachers can assert specific powers IN THEIR OWN CLASSROOMS. So it's just prudent and strategic to take that into consideration when you're figuring out what to do. You can fight them on that, but by the time you win your child will be in another school. That doesn't mean you shouldn't fight, but it does mean that if it is crucial for your child that you be right there, there are better ways to accomplish that. If you want to establish the principle, and you know that your child will be just fine while you fight, that's another matter.

I get what you're saying, Carol. (Thanks for not being put off by my responses.) But I just wouldn't allow my child to attend a classroom where I wasn't allowed in. We'd switch classrooms or schools or districts if necessary.

I have been strategic in that I volunteer in order to know what my kids are being taught. That's only taken me so far, however, and I'm considering being a little more blunt to see if I can get better results from my teachers. Their job is not just to teach remedial or average students. My kids are their students, too. They're not doing their jobs.

[msjones]

I haven't read all the replies yet, but will jump in here.

When I taught ps, I assumed that a primary reason parents were willing to come and help me was so they would know what was going on in my classroom. No problem. I had nothing to hide.

I may not have been overjoyed to be told in a suspicious way that a parent felt a need to keep an eye on me. But, it would depend entirely on how it was said.

My biggest gripe with parent volunteers was their gossiping to other parents about how my students performed in class. ("I can hardly believe how LOW poor little Susie is?! Today in class she couldn't read the word DOG!)" That went on a LOT, and was not fair to the kids at all. Yuck.

But a responsible, mature, motivated, interested, energetic adult who could keep her mouth shut about individual students outside of class was always welcome in my classroom.

[BabyBre]

I volunteer a couple of days a week and like you, I think my kids' education is more important than being liked by the teachers or the administration.

The thing is, if you tell the teachers that you are there to observe them, that puts them on the defensive. I think the teachers will not be as cooperative as they have been if you make them think they are being watched and evaluated. It is much better to have them on your side when you're advocating for special arrangements. And it sounds like you need to do that in math again. The curriculum and the teacher are probably just fine. I would approach it from the perspective that your child has taken a leap in math and the current approach is no longer working. Good luck!


Finally! I knew I couldn't be the only one! ;)

My teachers this year have been very welcoming, appreciative, and cooperative. My point being that my first year in ps, I got HORRIBLE results being proactive, but unassertive with the teacher. Last year, our second year, was better, as I was slightly more pushy and proactive. This year is the best yet, being even more assertive, alert, and involved, but still my teachers seem to have dropped the ball.

[BabyBre]

I haven't read all the replies yet, but will jump in here.

When I taught ps, I assumed that a primary reason parents were willing to come and help me was so they would know what was going on in my classroom. No problem. I had nothing to hide.

I may not have been overjoyed to be told in a suspicious way that a parent felt a need to keep an eye on me. But, it would depend entirely on how it was said.

My biggest gripe with parent volunteers was their gossiping to other parents about how my students performed in class. ("I can hardly believe how LOW poor little Susie is?! Today in class she couldn't read the word DOG!)" That went on a LOT, and was not fair to the kids at all. Yuck.

But a responsible, mature, motivated, interested, energetic adult who could keep her mouth shut about individual students outside of class was always welcome in my classroom.


Nice perspective. That's more of what I would expect from my teachers (and what I'm getting from the ones we have this year). Thanks, msjones!

[KarenAnne]

I'm actually amazed and pleased to hear how much access you have to your child's classroom in the first place. My sister, who has a child with a genetic mutation and has multiple special needs, including medical ones, was told flat out that she could not just come into the classroom to see what was going on, and if she did so, the school would call the police. And this was perfectly legal in our area.

Her child is now being homeschooled.

[BabyBre]

I'm actually amazed and pleased to hear how much access you have to your child's classroom in the first place. My sister, who has a child with a genetic mutation and has multiple special needs, including medical ones, was told flat out that she could not just come into the classroom to see what was going on, and if she did so, the school would call the police. And this was perfectly legal in our area.

Her child is now being homeschooled.


There is no little smiley that expresses my reaction to that, but this one comes close. :scared: Unbelievable. And kudos to her for pulling him out of that nightmare.

[MBM]

For the most part, I've been happy with my children's schools. (I hope it stays that way!) I did volunteer to help teach phonics one-on-one, was a young teacher's helper with literature and paperwork, and was the library lady which was great fun.

Volunteers had to sign something saying s/he would not *discuss* (gossip about) a child's progress. Most were sincerely trying to help the students, so as far as I know, it went well.

Good luck!

[msjones]

There is no little smiley that expresses my reaction to that, but this one comes close. :scared: Unbelievable. And kudos to her for pulling him out of that nightmare.

I'm always sorry to hear of parents not having easy access to classrooms, but I think some of it stems from privacy issues. I mentioned the gossiping-classroom-volunteer phenomena earlier and believe it's a real problem. Some moms come in to class and seem bound and determined to find a kid struggling more than her kid. Then, she likes to let everyone know so her kid seems a little smarter in the eyes of the other moms.

Like I said before...yuck.

[lmrich]

As a former classroom teacher - I would hate that. It would seem like you were looking/waiting for something bad to happen. I don't know you, so I can tell you that some parents (hopefully not you) are disruptive. I have had a parent wipe her little one's nose in class with the kid yelling in protest. A parent telling her little one that the answer she put down is not the one she should put down.

What is your point - if you don't trust what is going on there... why are you there? If you just want to know what is happening in the classroom to support the teacher at home with further activities, then ask the teacher for more updates.

I say volunteer away, but look at what your motive is... to help your child and the teacher or to find fault?

[mchel210]

My 3rd grade dd teacher is amazing. She wants to know everything I have used with my dd and has even gone out to purchase some materials to use in her class that we homeschooled with. I am thrilled. She allows my dd to use her abeka 4th grade math book and grades it along with her other work. My 1st grader's teacher isnt as talkative but she accepts if my dd does her work in a different format as long as it is more then she asked for! I like to push them to do a bit more then they expect from typical kids. I can get into her class on any day. (not true for public school...we had never been allowed in unless scheduled)

NOW>......my 8th grade in public school is another issue. I have a meeting today at 9am to discuss his issues. MY SONs Middle school teachers here dont seem to care...I stress...My sons teachers (I dont want to make a blanket statement). I have been asking to please let me know what they are working on and what I can do at home to keep my son who falls behind on task...but they refuse to call me...email me...or anything!!! I find this super frustrating.


I agree the teachers might feel you are overstepping in some grades...esp middle school...and they are not used to parents wanted to be involved in their child's education. I just dont get it. I am so happy my girls are in Private school and I can go in and talk to the teachers anytime! That is a huge plus. And yes...I agree...some parents are in the class demanding too much all the time! I have neighbors like that.

One teacher friend of mine stated she doesnt let parents in her K class any longer because she has heard tons of issues of parents coming in and making observations that are inaccurate and complaining to the principal...and then the teachers get in trouble for following rules the school set up for them...that parents might not understand. She just avoids it by not letting the parents in the class to begin with!

[Sahamamama]

OMG. The acceptance of the attitude that the government has rights to my child that supercede mine is shocking to me. I'm not a child abuser. I'm an involved parent, more of which the school district claims will be the answer to our 40% dropout rate.

No, it's not that they have rights to your children that supersede yours. It's that if they want to keep you OUT, then they WILL come up with a way to keep you OUT. You might want to find out what they can and cannot do to "bar" you from the classroom, should they decide they want to do that. When you know what the rules are, you'll know how hard to push. KWIM? And while I believe you have "rights" to your child, that might not necessarily mean you have "rights" to access your child's classroom, anytime, any day, without the teacher's permission. My only point is that you should check/know before you assume free access. There are other people's children in a classroom, too, not just your own.

FWIW, while I personally haven't had to "fight the good fight" for mine, my sister has (and is) for hers. She feels it's a losing battle, really. She's weary from the struggle. She has a son with an IEP, and the "child study team" met with her only once at the beginning of the school year -- in October, when they barely knew him. There were all these well-paid "experts" sitting there, but only one person -- my sister -- knew anything about her son. There has been NO contact from the CST since then, but only towards them in the form of my sister's advocacy for her son. She emails them (no phone calls these days, they don't give out phone numbers for teachers), but they don't email her back. She calls the school to request a meeting with a math teacher, and it becomes a Big Deal that they have to schedule two months in advance -- so the social worker can be there as a "witness to the meeting." All that for a meeting with a MATH TEACHER? And you have to WAIT TWO MONTHS to get in to see him? Really? Meanwhile, the kid is failing math.

With that as our family background, I really don't find the "They've Got You Over a Barrel" mindset so shocking. I think it's just being realistic. I sincerely hope your experience differs.

[BabyBre]

What is your point - if you don't trust what is going on there... why are you there? If you just want to know what is happening in the classroom to support the teacher at home with further activities, then ask the teacher for more updates.

I say volunteer away, but look at what your motive is... to help your child and the teacher or to find fault?

Good question. I'm there only to be my child's advocate, and am happy to help out while I do that. I know where my kids are academically and am there to make sure their time isn't being wasted as best I can. If I could have them home again, I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, they're in ps to stay.

In general, I don't trust what's going on there, but that's usually not a teacher issue, it's more of a general distrust of the establishment issue. And that's secondary, something I'm not terribly candid about (and don't plan to be) at my government school/place of employment!

This has turned into a very interesting thread for me. Thanks, everyone!

[BabyBre]

My 3rd grade dd teacher is amazing. She wants to know everything I have used with my dd and has even gone out to purchase some materials to use in her class that we homeschooled with. I am thrilled. She allows my dd to use her abeka 4th grade math book and grades it along with her other work. My 1st grader's teacher isnt as talkative but she accepts if my dd does her work in a different format as long as it is more then she asked for! I like to push them to do a bit more then they expect from typical kids. I can get into her class on any day. (not true for public school...we had never been allowed in unless scheduled)

NOW>......my 8th grade in public school is another issue. I have a meeting today at 9am to discuss his issues. MY SONs Middle school teachers here dont seem to care...I stress...My sons teachers (I dont want to make a blanket statement). I have been asking to please let me know what they are working on and what I can do at home to keep my son who falls behind on task...but they refuse to call me...email me...or anything!!! I find this super frustrating.


I agree the teachers might feel you are overstepping in some grades...esp middle school...and they are not used to parents wanted to be involved in their child's education. I just dont get it. I am so happy my girls are in Private school and I can go in and talk to the teachers anytime! That is a huge plus. And yes...I agree...some parents are in the class demanding too much all the time! I have neighbors like that.

One teacher friend of mine stated she doesnt let parents in her K class any longer because she has heard tons of issues of parents coming in and making observations that are inaccurate and complaining to the principal...and then the teachers get in trouble for following rules the school set up for them...that parents might not understand. She just avoids it by not letting the parents in the class to begin with!

That's just what my teachers this year are like. My 2nd grader's teacher asked if she could have a conference with me to see the work ds is doing at home. I was blown away! My 3rd grader's teacher is equally interested and cooperative, and I'm thrilled to death that ds will have her next year. They've both copied dc's Saxon worksheets for them to work on in class when their other work is done, and are even using them for the other advanced kids.

I do plan to be IN classrooms some in middle school. :ohmy: I know I'll get heavy resistance. That's why I'm thinking the best way to go about this now. I've heard about this particular school and am currently trying to formulate any plan possible to avoid going at all or seriously limiting dc's time there. The school's reputation for academics and social problems is terrible!


No, it's not that they have rights to your children that supersede yours. It's that if they want to keep you OUT, then they WILL come up with a way to keep you OUT. You might want to find out what they can and cannot do to "bar" you from the classroom, should they decide they want to do that. When you know what the rules are, you'll know how hard to push. KWIM? And while I believe you have "rights" to your child, that might not necessarily mean you have "rights" to access your child's classroom, anytime, any day, without the teacher's permission. My only point is that you should check/know before you assume free access. There are other people's children in a classroom, too, not just your own.

FWIW, while I personally haven't had to "fight the good fight" for mine, my sister has (and is) for hers. She feels it's a losing battle, really. She' weary from the struggle. She has a son with an IEP, and the "child study team" met with her only once at the beginning of the school year -- in October, when they barely knew him. There were all these well-paid "experts" sitting there, but only one person -- my sister -- knew anything about her son.
There has been NO contact from the CST since then, but only towards them in the form of my sister's advocacy for her son. She emails them (no phone calls these days, they don't give out phone numbers for teachers), but they don't email her back. She calls the school to request a meeting with a math teacher, and it becomes a Big Deal that they have to schedule two months in advance -- so the social worker can be there as a "witness to the meeting." All that for a meeting with a MATH TEACHER? And you have to WAIT TWO MONTHS to get in to see him? Really? Meanwhile, the kid is failing math.

With that as our family background, I really don't find the "They've Got You Over a Barrel" mindset so shocking. I think it's just being realistic. I sincerely hope your experience differs.

Thanks for that. More and more I'm realizing that we've got a pretty good little school, as far as public schools go. Our parental involvement is off the charts. On Tuesday mornings when I go to dd's 3rd grade room, there's an adult-student ratio of about 1:5! So, despite my experience vs. my expectations, I think the parental role is more respected here than it may be in other schools.

And while that is truely something to be thankful for, it's not going to stop me from insisting that my kids are actually being taught. The district will not advance them (not that I would really want that), so something must be done for these kids. I think gifted or advanced kids are the most neglected in the system.

Our gifted program begins in 3rd grade and dd's just been accepted, so at least there's that but it's only one day a week. That's a whole other world in that classroom! I learn something new about teaching bright kids every minute I'm in that room.

[Caroline]

I think you need to bring your children home. Your children are guaranteed a free and appropriate education based on the standards for your state. If you don't like that, then pull them out.

You talked about other parents not being able or willing to stand up to the system. Perhaps you need to confront whatever force is keeping your children in school against your will. You need to do exactly what you are saying other parents are not willing to do.

[EmilyK]

I haven't been as assertive as that, and truthfully I don't mind doing some photocopying. Most of my kids' teachers over the years have been sensitive to that issue and look for a balance. A lot of what I've done is in the back of the room -- prep, Friday folders etc and there's a lot of observing then. I really like working with the kids if I can. Our school has a pretty open door policy but I know it is unnerving for teachers to have people there just watching them, especially if they're projecting a judging vibe (not saying the OP is, but I saw one dad doing that and it was off-putting).
Most of my kids' teachers have asked at the beginning of the year what folks would like to do and try their best to accomodate what volunteers want. There are also field trips that constantly need chaperones and our librarian always needs help for example. I do love volunteering and this discussion has reminded me that I should do more! Some of most heartwarming experiences have been working with the kids.

That said, I'm at an all time low point of view about the schools. The teachers are generally fabulous but the mandate (from the feds? the public?) is to focus almost exclusively on the struggling kids without home support. I've gone from a huge champion of the public schools to being something else (not quite sure what yet) after years of seeing my kids' needs not met. So sometimes volunteering is uncomfortable because you know too much!

[Sahamamama]

It's not going to stop me from insisting that my kids are actually being taught. The district will not advance them (not that I would really want that), so something must be done for these kids. I think gifted or advanced kids are the most neglected in the system.

Our gifted program begins in 3rd grade and dd's just been accepted, so at least there's that but it's only one day a week. That's a whole other world in that classroom! I learn something new about teaching bright kids every minute I'm in that room.

:iagree:If you don't insist, who will? :grouphug: It's tough at both ends of the spectrum. I can see what my sister has dealt with (her son DOES have issues, some of which are general squirreliness and goofiness, but I'm an aunt, so I can say that). OTOH, I called the school concerning enrolling my daughter in K in the fall. She reads at a very high level, already is advanced for her age, and is just a great kid. I discussed this with the "Kindergarten Registrar" and she basically told me, "We don't really have a place for your daughter." :001_huh: I am not kidding.

I think, if she's doing this now, what will she be doing by September? And where will the school start her? With the sound for "b" and counting blocks? I hate to sound so stuck up, it's not that, really. But it IS frustrating to have a bright kid, isn't it?

Our system is the same in that G & T begins in 3rd grade. My nephew (the other one ;)) was in G & T all throughout elementary, and it was a pull-out program 1x/week -- extra group projects, basically, not really a higher level or faster pace throughout. Sigh.

I wish you well with your efforts and plans.

[BabyBre]

I think you need to bring your children home. Your children are guaranteed a free and appropriate education based on the standards for your state. If you don't like that, then pull them out.

You talked about other parents not being able or willing to stand up to the system. Perhaps you need to confront whatever force is keeping your children in school against your will. You need to do exactly what you are saying other parents are not willing to do.


I agree wholeheartedly! And, believe me, I have confronted that force - my dh. We fought the battle viciously from the day I chose to pull my oldest out of ps 7 years ago against dh's will to the day I finally agreed to compromise my principals for the sake of holding the family together. Please don't anyone suggest that I haven't taken this down to the last remaining thread. It's been absolutely agonizing for me.

So, given that situation, I am doing what I say other parents need to do - be as involved, aware, and active as possible. I no longer have the option of homeschooling exclusively, so I've had to shift my focus to what I DO and can have within my control. In our district, and across most of Washington state, our "free" education comes at the cost of quality. Our high school dropout rate is now 40% (that just increased from 33%), and our high school graduates have an 80% remediation rate. I can at least do my best to make sure my kids don't fall into those percentages.

I'm a public school parent now (as well as still a homeschooler), but I'm not taking it lying down! I'm going to be in the classroom and, at the least I'm going to protect my children and increase awareness about what I learn there. At the most, I'll be the next US Education Secretary! :patriot:

[Shay]

I'm going to be quite blunt in that it appears your may be a "helicopter parent."

I, too, am an afterschooler. I, too, volunteer in my children's school. So, in that regard we are similar. However, the main focus of my volunteering is not about whether or not the teacher/school/system is advancing my bright children. Truly, and perhaps sadly, I don't expect that. That individual advancing, custom-tailored to my children, is all on me.

I help with the low-performing children. These children need so much extra help that it often makes me just weep. My kids are truly "set."

I never sent mine to ps with any sort of idea that their education would be better than what I could provide at home, because that just couldn't happen (I know you aren't saying that, either). But, dh wanted that, and his decision is final. I could either accept that and work with it, or buck against it. Bucking against it would harm our marriage, which would harm our children. I don't believe it would really matter so much if they know Greek and Latin if our marriage was troubled. (NOT saying yours is, but I think *mine* would be if I was so opposed to my dh's decison).

Breann, I've spent hundreds of hours working with the low-performing kids. It seems as though you LOVE to teach, so perhaps you could volunteer to help the teachers out in this way? I realized when my youngest went to school that I *have* to teach or something is just missing. Could this be some of your angst? Could you perhaps feel that this has been taken from you since your kids entered school? I could be far, far, off~but wanted to throw it out there because it was my experience.

Many young kids don't make the sudden leap to conceptual math that our curriculum, Everyday Math, requires them to make and I love working with them concretely and try to incrementally move them on. There is real joy and value to providing this type service and I find much satisfaction with helping young children with their reading and math. This is something teachers really value and need. Yes, in doing so I see things wrong with the system as a whole (and it drives me insane), but I know I can make a difference in individual kid's lives by working with them. My kids also are proud I work with the students who need help, as some of them are their friends.

Now, going in to observe at middle school would NOT be something my ds (8th) would be too pleased with! I think the teachers would welcome it, as they should, but my kid would be HORRIFIED!

[Jan in SC]

I visit my son's first grade class once a week. I went more for kindergarten, but he had a more organized teacher and I was available to help. Honestly, I would think you are distracting to the other children. When someone walks into the classroom, everything stops. Even if it's just for a little while, it can be very disruptive to the day. I am happy to disrupt if I am there for the benefit of the class. (helping with math facts)-

Don't get me wrong, I frequently email, call and have meetings with the teacher. I'm in the class a great deal- I'm a room mom, but to go sit and watch, on a several times a week basis....it sounds obsessive.

I applaud your ambition, but I disagree with your solution.

All of my guys will be home after this school year!

[Sahamamama]

I help with the low-performing children. These children need so much extra help that it often makes me just weep. My kids are truly "set." I've spent hundreds of hours working with the low-performing kids. It seems as though you LOVE to teach, so perhaps you could volunteer to help the teachers out in this way?

I've done this, too, and it's wonderful to help a child who struggles with reading learn to read, or a child who struggles with writing learn to write.
OTOH, there is nothing wrong with making the choice to put your energies into your own children, with investing the energy of teaching into the other end of the spectrum, with helping bright children succeed. Just my two cents. No guilt, though, either way....

[Sahamamama]

I applaud your ambition, but I disagree with your solution. All of my guys will be home after this school year!

That's truly not a solution for everybody.

[Rosie_0801]

My kids are their students, too. They're not doing their jobs.

Your kids certainly are their students too, but it isn't surprising they are not doing their job, as you put it. Their job is bigger than they are.

Rosie

P.S I take it your dh had the pleasure of directly observing the mediocre education being provided?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know where in WA you are, but in our district (Renton) and the two adjoining it (Bellevue and Issaquah) parents are not allowed to volunteer in the classroom in middle school. I've been told the same by parents in the Seattle school district as well. These are parents who were very involved in the elementary grades and were available to volunteer. Of course I don't know someone in every single school in every single district. But I'd say you could at least make the assumption that it might not be welcomed or even allowed.

[Carol in Cal.]

Honestly, I would think you are distracting to the other children. When someone walks into the classroom, everything stops. Even if it's just for a little while, it can be very disruptive to the day.

The fact is, when kids are accustomed to parents being in the classroom, and when parents are trained properly not to be disruptive, and when there is a shared discipline technique and rules in place so that consistent discipline is practiced, parents do not disrupt the classroom. I have seen this; I know this for sure.

I do know exactly what you're talking about, and it's just another paradigm

It's the same as saying that one can't homeschool because helping with homework is so difficult. Homeschooling and helping with homework are two completely different things that sound deceptively similar.

With a current adult to child ratio of 1:5 in those classrooms, the parent participation being non-disruptive paradigm should dominate.

[Carol in Cal.]

Finally! I knew I couldn't be the only one! ;)

My teachers this year have been very welcoming, appreciative, and cooperative. My point being that my first year in ps, I got HORRIBLE results being proactive, but unassertive with the teacher. Last year, our second year, was better, as I was slightly more pushy and proactive. This year is the best yet, being even more assertive, alert, and involved, but still my teachers seem to have dropped the ball.

What math curriculum is used in your DD's classroom? Can you check the publisher's website for enrichment, accelerated, or problem solving workbooks that are intended to extend that curriculum? Many math curricula do have those available, and they are not all that expensive. Harcourt is one that I have bought from/recommended in a similar circumstance. You could procure these books and either afterschool your child with more advanced material that extends the work she is doing in class, or ask that she be allowed to work in them instead of the standard worksheets, after the teacher covers the same material. That way she would not be as bored in class, hopefully, and would be able to work at her level without 'working ahead' so much.

If what you want her to do is skip a grade in math, that's another story; but it doesn't seem like you're on a path like that.

[betty]

Your post gives me a real creepy feeling. I've taught in ps, I've homeschooled and now I teach part time and afterschool. I also volunteer.

My role as a volunteer is to make my child's teacher's job easier. So, I do all the crappy time consuming little jobs I can so he or she can spend more time planning exciting lessons that meet everyone's needs. There are 25 kiddos besides mine in the room. The teacher has to provide an appropriate education to each child and meet state requirements while doing so. The teacher does not (and cannot) maximize every child's potential. He or she may be able to provide sparks of enrichment here and there, but maximizing potential on a daily basis is not going to happen. The truth is enrichment is a parent's job, not the school's. The school provides basic instruction based state mandates and benchmarks.

It sounds like your goal is hover and demand regular changes in the classroom for your dc. So, the teacher is supposed to devote a significant chunk of time to adjusting things for you dc. I'd like to you honestly add up the time you take from the and figure out if it's humanly possible to devote that much individual time to each every child.

Honestly, from what you've written no one will be a good enough teacher.

The teacher needs to be permitted to design lessons that meet the dynamics of the class. That's not perfect. It's just what has to happen. Many people like a more individual approach so they home school or seek private schools with small class sizes.

Do you afterschool? What subjects? If you want more math, why don't you afterschoool math.

[MeganW]

Your post gives me a real creepy feeling. I've taught in ps, I've homeschooled and now I teach part time and afterschool. I also volunteer.

My role as a volunteer is to make my child's teacher's job easier. So, I do all the crappy time consuming little jobs I can so he or she can spend more time planning exciting lessons that meet everyone's needs. There are 25 kiddos besides mine in the room. The teacher has to provide an appropriate education to each child and meet state requirements while doing so. The teacher does not (and cannot) maximize every child's potential. He or she may be able to provide sparks of enrichment here and there, but maximizing potential on a daily basis is not going to happen. The truth is enrichment is a parent's job, not the school's. The school provides basic instruction based state mandates and benchmarks.

It sounds like your goal is hover and demand regular changes in the classroom for your dc. So, the teacher is supposed to devote a significant chunk of time to adjusting things for you dc. I'd like to you honestly add up the time you take from the and figure out if it's humanly possible to devote that much individual time to each every child.

Honestly, from what you've written no one will be a good enough teacher.

The teacher needs to be permitted to design lessons that meet the dynamics of the class. That's not perfect. It's just what has to happen. Many people like a more individual approach so they home school or seek private schools with small class sizes.

Do you afterschool? What subjects? If you want more math, why don't you afterschoool math.


I had the EXACT same vibe from reading her post. I volunteer one day a week in my kids' class, and my goal while I am there is to make the teacher's job easier. She knows it, and she has begun to plan things around my time there. She almost always gets an art project planned for me to do with 3/4 of the class while she works with a small group. A small group that wouldn't happen if I wasn't there to take over the rest of the class.

There are also 2 kids who consistently disrupt the class. I go and sit down RIGHT BESIDE the trouble-maker and enthusiastically participate in the songs, watch the book being read, do the silly dance with the class, etc., and give of course give the fish eye to the naughty child as necessary. Not disciplining the kids, but certainly helping the teacher to focus on providing a great lesson more than she is able to do when I am not there.

I think going in with an attitude of "I am willing to do whatever it takes to improve ALL the kids' educations" will get you a lot farther than the adversarial attitude you seem to be going in with.

I have found that after working hard to work WITH the teacher, she is SO willing to listen to my concerns (which I state as being about my kids, as opposed to about her) and provide extra support as I request. Being partners, instead of enemies, has really worked well in my situation.

[BabyBre]

I'm going to be quite blunt in that it appears your may be a "helicopter parent."

I, too, am an afterschooler. I, too, volunteer in my children's school. So, in that regard we are similar. However, the main focus of my volunteering is not about whether or not the teacher/school/system is advancing my bright children.



I understand internet posts can be hard to make accurate assessments from. Rest assured, I am not a helicopter. I merely want the 6 hours every day that my kids spend in school to be more than just social time plus busywork. That is the main focus of my volunteering so, you're right, we're different that way.


Honestly, I would think you are distracting to the other children. When someone walks into the classroom, everything stops. Even if it's just for a little while, it can be very disruptive to the day.


:lol: I did have to laugh when I read the suggestion that the kids are disrupted by parents in the classroom! Maybe it's our school's high rate of parental volunteers, but our kids are extremely used to seeing parents at school, in the classrooms, in the lunchroom, reading with kids in the halls, tutoring math in the back of the classroom. I know most of the names of our 300+ kids, and they know me, because I also work the lunch hour at the school. I think they may be more disrupted if they didn't see us for a while!



P.S I take it your dh had the pleasure of directly observing the mediocre education being provided?

Not often directly, but you better believe he hears every little bit that I can relay to him. He had briefly been suggesting that I consider working more hours until I told him what I heard in my 2nd grader's room last week. The student teacher, during a lesson about character where the kids were writing character traits of Abraham Lincoln on his stovepipe hat (which included that he was "tall" and "strong"), told the class that Lincoln had fought and died in the Civil War. :001_huh: My ds quietly said from the back of the room, "No. He was shot by John Wilkes Booth in a theater." Of course I couldn't be prouder, but THAT is why I want to be in the classroom! Dh is completely delighted that I continue to teach our kids at home and am an advocate for them at school. He says they have the "best of both worlds" this way.



My role as a volunteer is to make my child's teacher's job easier.

The teacher has to provide an appropriate education to each child and meet state requirements while doing so. The teacher does not (and cannot) maximize every child's potential. He or she may be able to provide sparks of enrichment here and there, but maximizing potential on a daily basis is not going to happen. The truth is enrichment is a parent's job, not the school's. The school provides basic instruction based state mandates and benchmarks.

It sounds like your goal is hover and demand regular changes in the classroom for your dc. So, the teacher is supposed to devote a significant chunk of time to adjusting things for you dc. I'd like to you honestly add up the time you take from the and figure out if it's humanly possible to devote that much individual time to each every child.

Honestly, from what you've written no one will be a good enough teacher.

Do you afterschool? What subjects? If you want more math, why don't you afterschoool math.

Please read my signature. You'll see that I not only afterschool math, but almost a full basic curriculum.

I completely reject that all public school teachers should to is teach to standard. That means that bright kids are intended to sit intellectually idle for 6 hours a day. That means that it's about mandates and politics, and not about the kids. My kids deserve just as much of their teacher's time as the strugglers, and I know for a fact that my teachers agree.


I volunteer one day a week in my kids' class, and my goal while I am there is to make the teacher's job easier. She knows it, and she has begun to plan things around my time there. She almost always gets an art project planned for me to do with 3/4 of the class while she works with a small group. A small group that wouldn't happen if I wasn't there to take over the rest of the class.

I think going in with an attitude of "I am willing to do whatever it takes to improve ALL the kids' educations" will get you a lot farther than the adversarial attitude you seem to be going in with.




There's a lot of judgement in the full version of this post. Like I said, it's hard to make accurate assessments via internet post.

It's wonderful you're working so closely with the kids. I also do that. My 2nd grade teacher divides the class and has me teach half their science lessons. My 3rd grade teacher has me pull individual kids and tutor in math concepts she feels are lacking in the curriculum (TERC Investigations, by the way. Many posters have asked.). I taught Allie her ABCs and 123s in kindergarten, and brought her reading level up a full grade level last year. I love getting to know the kids this way, I enjoy teaching, and it usually keeps me in the classroom. I don't know why it's being assumed that I refuse to help. In fact, I said that I was happy to help.

I think this thread has gone in the wrong direction in that it's being assumed that I enter my kids' classrooms every day with my arms crossed and a scowl on my face, ready to kick some public teacher butt! Come on, people. I'm a mom and a human being just like you. I don't march around being nasty and demanding to the people around me, do you? I'm not sure what in my original post suggested that that was my demeanor.

But I guess I can see that being candid will make me, ironically, misunderstood.

[Evergreen State Sue]

From one mom to another from Washington State I just have to say, "You Rock!" I get that you would really like to exclusively homeschool your children but you are respecting your dh's wishes. I get that you're not taking the easy way out and just sending them off to school to learn whatever, but are involved in their schooling. I get that you want the best for them and want to challenge their minds. I get that you care about the other kids in the classroom and help them along to shore up their weaknesses. Good job, Mom!

[BabyBre]

From one mom to another from Washington State I just have to say, "You Rock!" I get that you would really like to exclusively homeschool your children but you are respecting your dh's wishes. I get that you're not taking the easy way out and just sending them off to school to learn whatever, but are involved in their schooling. I get that you want the best for them and want to challenge their minds. I get that you care about the other kids in the classroom and help them along to shore up their weaknesses. Good job, Mom!

*sniff*sniff* Thanks so much, Sue!

[Jan in SC]

I'm a little confused. You are there to "listen" and you will help if you are not distracted from that job, but you don't cause distractions to young children by walking in and out of the room during a lesson??

I don't understand the boldness you are willing to express to an adult you are not related to in regard to your children and their need, yet you choose not to allow your children to homeschool because you've given that choice to another adult.

I see a lot of public school bashers here and I agree with some, but...I have never met a parent that doesn't want the child's day to be academically productive.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

*sniff*sniff* Thanks so much, Sue!

From the comments section of my fav math blog, "Kitchen Table Math"

"Cliff Mass of the University of Washington surveyed his Atmospheric Science 101 class at the University of Washington and found the following:

Consider these embarrassing statistics from the exam: The overall grade was 58%

43% did not know the formula for the area of a circle
86% could not do a simple algebra problem (problem 4b)
75% could not do a simple scientific notation problem (1e)
52% could not deal with a negative exponent (2 to the -2)
43% could not do simple long division problem with no remainder!
47% did not know what a cosine was.

Shocking does not begin to describe it. I recommend everyone go over the Seattle's "Where's the Math" website and take a look at the great stuff they've accumulated there as they have been involved in the lawsuit."

-K

[BabyBre]

I'm a little confused. You are there to "listen" and you will help if you are not distracted from that job, but you don't cause distractions to young children by walking in and out of the room during a lesson??

I don't understand the boldness you are willing to express to an adult you are not related to in regard to your children and their need, yet you choose not to allow your children to homeschool because you've given that choice to another adult.

I see a lot of public school bashers here and I agree with some, but...I have never met a parent that doesn't want the child's day to be academically productive.


If this is directed to me, the OP, you are indeed very confused. I strongly feel I shouldn't dignify this post and refrain from further comment, but I'll do my best here.

As I explained in my last post, no, our kids are not distracted by the comings and goings of the many adults at our school. On certain days, my dd's room has two parent volunteers, one support staff member (to lighten the teacher's load due to the number of "qualified" students in the class), a student teacher, and the teacher herself, plus MANY student pull-outs all day long for special ed, speech therapy, etc, all coming and going through the door as needed. This occurs in many of our classrooms. It's commonplace at our school.

As I explained in my last post, my children do still homeschool, and that "other adult" who has influenced their also attending public school is my amazing husband to whom I am committed for life, whom I chose to be the father of my children, and from whom I choose not to be divorced. But thanks for judging. The thought that I somehow owe more respect to the teacher I'll know for nine months and who isn't keeping the promises she made, than I do to my husband is assinine, but I am never disrespectful to my kids' teachers or anyone else. Are you? Being interested in what dc are learning is not disrespectful.

Your last statement has me completely flummoxed and reveals that you haven't read the entire thread. I'm not sure where you got that notion, but academic productivity is ALL I want.

Hope that clears things up.

[BabyBre]

From the comments section of my fav math blog, "Kitchen Table Math"

"Cliff Mass of the University of Washington surveyed his Atmospheric Science 101 class at the University of Washington and found the following:

Consider these embarrassing statistics from the exam: The overall grade was 58%

43% did not know the formula for the area of a circle
86% could not do a simple algebra problem (problem 4b)
75% could not do a simple scientific notation problem (1e)
52% could not deal with a negative exponent (2 to the -2)
43% could not do simple long division problem with no remainder!
47% did not know what a cosine was.

Shocking does not begin to describe it. I recommend everyone go over the Seattle's "Where's the Math" website and take a look at the great stuff they've accumulated there as they have been involved in the lawsuit."

-K


Thanks, K. I have seen that board and I have a friend who's very active in trying to improve math education here and at the state level.

I have certainly put very shocking information in front of dh over the course of our homeschool battle. He's one that's fixated on "normal". I'm not sure what it would take for him to feel that "normal" isn't necessarily a good thing! In our district, "normal" means that one of our three kids won't graduate. It doesn't help my arguement that dc still excell over their peers because I continue to homeschool, that our elementary school is quite good comparatively, or that dd's been accepted into the gifted program. With all that in place, how could they not be getting everything they need?

I may have come to better terms over the last 3 years with losing my kids, but that doesn't mean I'm doing it quietly. I see a problem in the schools and I'm going to do everything I can to avoid that becomming a problem for my kids, and maybe I can make an even bigger difference at the same time.

Thanks!

[Jan in SC]

Your last statement has me completely flummoxed and reveals that you haven't read the entire thread. I'm not sure where you got that notion, but academic productivity is ALL I want.

Hope that clears things up.


I'm sorry if my comments were offensive. I did not intend them that way! It is difficult to show disenting argument while showing pleasantness on a web forum. I mean no disrespect, I just don't understand your position.

My point about the above quote:- yes, this is what all ps parents I have ever met want. I just beg to differ with the way you acheive it.

I don't know your background with homeschool vs. public school. If you have a spouse that is very adament in a different direction than you, then I'm sorry. That must be extremely difficult. I can't grasp that situation. I truly don't understand it. We obviously deal with ostacles in different ways.


I do wish you well with your children's academic journey! As I mentioned in a previous post, I admire your ambition, I just don't agree with your methods.

[BabyBre]

I do wish you well with your children's academic journey! As I mentioned in a previous post, I admire your ambition, I just don't agree with your methods.


Fair enough! I'm curious, then, how would you go about trying to ensure that your bright kids continue to make progress in a classroom far below their ability level? I have promises from my teachers that they will give them additional work, pull them (along with the other advanced kids) aside when possible, insist they read appropriately challenging literature, etc, but at this point in the year it's not happening so much anymore. I know that, and I'm comfortable giving my teachers subtle reminders ("How is the advanced math group going?") because I have a relationship with them due to my being in the classroom so much.

How would you hold them accountable?

[Jan in SC]

My Internet is down now and I'm typing from my phone. I'll post back when it is up, later today.

[EmilyK]

Breann, I do admire your assertiveness and your more organized style of afterschooling, even though I might not be able to pull either one off.

I think I've been in the same position, with bright/TAG kids and a school system that is focused on the struggling kids with no home support. There are some amazing teachers at my kids' school, especially in the lower grades. But as the grades progress the focus increases on academic work that can be pretty boring if not challenging. (In the lower grades there's a lot of sweet, creative and openended stuff that anyone can enjoy.) Many teachers don't feel that they have the bandwidth to deal with challenging the advanced kids.

I pushed for years for the overall school to adopt ability grouping, since it is the easiest way for the teachers to implement differentiation. I (and other parents) would be very happy to volunteer or buy supplies for an upper math or reading group, etc. The administration is now bought in, but the individual teachers are extremely resistant. They don't like how it breaks out in terms of race, class etc. And we don't have any TAG pullouts any more.

So I'm kind of giving up. We're moving my oldest to private school next year. If that hadn't worked out we were going to move him to a gifted or academically focused magnet, since that seems the only place where there's appropriate instruction for advanced kids.

Sorry to hijack with such a long post, but it is good to connect with others in similar boats. I do feel afterschooling has helped a lot -- my older gets pretty depressed if he feels that there isn't any intellectual stimulation in his life. But we've tended to sort of unschool it -- since he has so much busywork, I hate to add more worksheets at least during the school year.

[Jan in SC]

Can you offer to run a book club for the students that read well? I handed my son's teacher Deconstructing Penguins and she started one herself. Can you send in math work for times when they are finished early? This would free you up from doing so much in the afternoon.

My son has a list of questions/research that he keeps at school. If he finishes more than a few minutes early, he is sent to library to "solve a problem," of his own interest and then he usually presents it to his class.

Don't be afraid to ask for specific teachers that will creatively encourage your child.

It will be very difficult to keep them challenged if they are far ahead. Do you have academic magnets, or charter schools? Is there a private school that groups by level, rather than age?

What math does your school use?

[Pippen]

I volunteer a couple of days a week and like you, I think my kids' education is more important than being liked by the teachers or the administration.

The thing is, if you tell the teachers that you are there to observe them, that puts them on the defensive.

I agree. I'd venture a guess that you will be told your help won't be needed. It not right away, then the first time you voice a concern. Our school implemented a reading program that heavily relied on parent volunteers. The three of us that I know of who expressed strong concerns about the program at different times were all suddenly not needed because the teacher was going to be able to handle it all.

[cougarmom4]

Since day one in public school, I've made a huge effort to spend time in my dc's classrooms. I spend nearly two full days each week at the school, my intention being that I know what they're learning. There's hardly a day that goes by that I don't hear something in the classroom or elsewhere in the school that doesn't make me glad I'm there.

But after two and a half years of letting teachers send me to the copy room far too often, I've decided that my new approach will be much more candid. Instead of merely stating that I prefer working in the classroom, I'm going in next year with, "I'm here to listen. If I can be helpful at the same time, great!"

Anyone else take this much more honest and open approach? How's that working out for you as far as the treatment and/or attitude from your teachers? I'm curious because I'm also employed at the school part-time, so these people are also my coworkers.

I have read the rest of the thread, but wanted to come back to comment on your original post.

First of all, we have a lot in common! I also have advanced kids who need more challenge, teachers who say they agree & want to do more, a desire to homeschool, AND a dh that is totally opposed. We tried homeschooling last year with our oldest--and it was great--but the need (dh...ds, too) to be 'normal' like everyone else won out. :glare: I am pretty happy with most of the curriculum at our younger kids' school (Saxon math, Shurley English, Core Knowledge history/science/art/literature/music) but I feel completely clueless at the junior high...seriously, the only way they want parental involvement is on the PTA...so you can bring refreshments to the dances.

So...I totally get where you are coming from. And I think you are doing an awesome job! I think it's great to be so involved in the classroom (especially as it sounds like your school encourages & appreciates this) and also think it's great to be so helpful to the teachers.

I can understand your frustration with being sent to the copy room or other such things, when what you'd really like to be doing is being in the classroom. Your original post asked for how others of us have handled this. I have also felt like it is better to be direct with the teachers, but haven't wanted to burn bridges or cause problems...yet, I need to get my points across & be involved.

Here's what I do: I say quite directly that I want to be IN the classroom...helping in any way she needs me to...but my reason is because I want to be watching my child & her interactions wtih classmates, her work habits, her behavior, etc. (Not that we have behavior problems)....But I just approach it from a different angle--not that I want to watch the TEACHER specifically (even though I do like to see her in action, but it's not my main goal)--but that I would like to be in the classroom to observe my daughter & her interactions. I offer to take a small group aside, teach whole-class, read storytime books, grade papers, cut things out, etc. But I'm pretty direct that I'd really prefer to be in the classroom while doing these things...just to get a feel for how things are going with my child. So far my teachers have understood and love to have my help. Our school also encourages parental involvement and we are welcome to come into the classroom at any time.

My reason isn't to be a 'helicopter' parent either. But there is something about being there & watching & knowing what is happening...observing as the year goes by and seeing how things work within the classroom. I personally love getting to know the other kids better, too.

Now, having said that, I can't imagine being there more than one morning a week plus special events (field trips, assemblies, parties, etc)...mostly because I have a dd2 that keeps me from doing so. But if I were to spend so much time there, I'd want to get paid! (As it sounds like you are doing!)

[Pippen]

Here's what I do: I say quite directly that I want to be IN the classroom...helping in any way she needs me to...but my reason is because I want to be watching my child & her interactions wtih classmates, her work habits, her behavior, etc. (Not that we have behavior problems)....But I just approach it from a different angle--not that I want to watch the TEACHER specifically (even though I do like to see her in action, but it's not my main goal)--but that I would like to be in the classroom to observe my daughter & her interactions. I offer to take a small group aside, teach whole-class, read storytime books, grade papers, cut things out, etc. But I'm pretty direct that I'd really prefer to be in the classroom while doing these things...just to get a feel for how things are going with my child. So far my teachers have understood and love to have my help. Our school also encourages parental involvement and we are welcome to come into the classroom at any time.

Teachers at our school really vary on how much parental involvement they want. I offered to help when one of my kids was in kindergarten and the teacher had me tutor several struggling students. When I saw what kinds of activities she wanted with them I would bring in some of my own games and our Geosafari and she was great with that. We've also had very capable teachers that didn't want any help beyond class parties and field trips.

I was also up front with the teachers that I preferred a more active role and specifically mentioned tutoring because I really liked doing it. It usually landed me outside the classroom door in a commons area instead, but that was good enough for me.

[Capt_Uhura]

I'm up to page 2 but wanted to chime in here. At my DS's would-be PS (we're full-time HSers after being full-fledged afterschoolers), it was commonly known that by 3rd grade, the school cuts the cord. In 3rd grade, you can't even walk the cupcakes to the classroom for a bday party, you have to leave them at the front door. Even this is teacher dependent. There are several K and 1st grade teachers which cut the cord at K and 1st and do not allow any parents in the classroom - not even for parties.

Interesting what I read about FERPA laws. My friend volunteered in the classroom and did reading assessments. So she knew the reading level of most of the kids in the class. She said she was uncomfortable knowing that other parents would know so much about her DD.

I volunteered in my son's classroom quite a bit doing science w/ them. I never said anything to anyone about any of the kids....not even anything positive. I had one mom point blank ask me about her DD and I told her how polite, and sweet her DD was (true) but that I wouldn't tell her anything negative...wasn't my place. She told me I had better tell her the negative stuff lol. I reiterated that it wasn't my place and I wanted to protect my being able to be in the classroom.

[BabyBre]

Can you offer to run a book club for the students that read well? I handed my son's teacher Deconstructing Penguins and she started one herself. Can you send in math work for times when they are finished early? This would free you up from doing so much in the afternoon.

My son has a list of questions/research that he keeps at school. If he finishes more than a few minutes early, he is sent to library to "solve a problem," of his own interest and then he usually presents it to his class.

Don't be afraid to ask for specific teachers that will creatively encourage your child.

It will be very difficult to keep them challenged if they are far ahead. Do you have academic magnets, or charter schools? Is there a private school that groups by level, rather than age?

What math does your school use?


The book club idea is one I hadn't thought of. That's an interesting idea.

I think the rest of the suggestions are already in place. Our school is very good about honoring parent requests for teachers, so I have been able to select my kids' teachers each year. I do feel I have the best ones in each grade this year.

The problem with dd (which we're discovering now that she's attending the gifted program) is that she's lost quite a bit of her self-motivation. She's content to read easy books in class and rarely gets out her Saxon worksheets to complete while she waits for the class to finish lessons. She's become very accustomed to things coming quickly and easily and her interest in focusing or initiating additional work has diminished significantly. In her gifted classroom, the work is challenging, the expectations are high, her classmates can compete with her. I'm SO thankful she has that.

Unfortunately, we don't have any charter or magnet schools, and dh refuses to pay for a private education when a public one is available.

[BabyBre]

I have read the rest of the thread, but wanted to come back to comment on your original post.

First of all, we have a lot in common! I also have advanced kids who need more challenge, teachers who say they agree & want to do more, a desire to homeschool, AND a dh that is totally opposed. We tried homeschooling last year with our oldest--and it was great--but the need (dh...ds, too) to be 'normal' like everyone else won out. :glare: I am pretty happy with most of the curriculum at our younger kids' school (Saxon math, Shurley English, Core Knowledge history/science/art/literature/music) but I feel completely clueless at the junior high...seriously, the only way they want parental involvement is on the PTA...so you can bring refreshments to the dances.

So...I totally get where you are coming from. And I think you are doing an awesome job! I think it's great to be so involved in the classroom (especially as it sounds like your school encourages & appreciates this) and also think it's great to be so helpful to the teachers.

I can understand your frustration with being sent to the copy room or other such things, when what you'd really like to be doing is being in the classroom. Your original post asked for how others of us have handled this. I have also felt like it is better to be direct with the teachers, but haven't wanted to burn bridges or cause problems...yet, I need to get my points across & be involved.

Here's what I do: I say quite directly that I want to be IN the classroom...helping in any way she needs me to...but my reason is because I want to be watching my child & her interactions wtih classmates, her work habits, her behavior, etc. (Not that we have behavior problems)....But I just approach it from a different angle--not that I want to watch the TEACHER specifically (even though I do like to see her in action, but it's not my main goal)--but that I would like to be in the classroom to observe my daughter & her interactions. I offer to take a small group aside, teach whole-class, read storytime books, grade papers, cut things out, etc. But I'm pretty direct that I'd really prefer to be in the classroom while doing these things...just to get a feel for how things are going with my child. So far my teachers have understood and love to have my help. Our school also encourages parental involvement and we are welcome to come into the classroom at any time.

My reason isn't to be a 'helicopter' parent either. But there is something about being there & watching & knowing what is happening...observing as the year goes by and seeing how things work within the classroom. I personally love getting to know the other kids better, too.

Now, having said that, I can't imagine being there more than one morning a week plus special events (field trips, assemblies, parties, etc)...mostly because I have a dd2 that keeps me from doing so. But if I were to spend so much time there, I'd want to get paid! (As it sounds like you are doing!)

Teachers at our school really vary on how much parental involvement they want. I offered to help when one of my kids was in kindergarten and the teacher had me tutor several struggling students. When I saw what kinds of activities she wanted with them I would bring in some of my own games and our Geosafari and she was great with that. We've also had very capable teachers that didn't want any help beyond class parties and field trips.

I was also up front with the teachers that I preferred a more active role and specifically mentioned tutoring because I really liked doing it. It usually landed me outside the classroom door in a commons area instead, but that was good enough for me.


Thanks, ladies! That's what I was looking for with this thread!

[Caroline]

Breann, I wanted to say that I understand your issues, and I know what it is like to try to get acceleration from a public school. I deal with it in many ways. Until middle school, my kids always had a math book in their bag. After doing the school math for review, they do their own math. In middle school, my oldest took 6,7, and 8th grade maths in two years. The he moved onto accelerated high school classes and will have 12 credits of calculus from Georgia Tech before graduating high school through distance learning. They study the same science/social studies as the rest of the kids, but they do the reading at a higher level. I provide some of the resources, and the teachers often have resources for them to use. Reading is done independently, so it isn't much of an issue. My nine year old sometimes reads the class the read aloud book. He also sometimes reads along with what the other kids read because he hasn't read every book in the world, and there are many interesting books below his current reading level that he missed.

I also think there needs to be changes in public education, so I became a certified teacher. I teach at an urban high school and am working with the local university on changing their teacher prep program. We have a five year multimillion dollar grant. We are completely overhauling the program, including bringing college classes into our schools.

Well, I am not sure what any of it has to do with your original post, but I thought you might like fellow moms in the trenches to reply. Good luck.

[BabyBre]

Breann, I wanted to say that I understand your issues, and I know what it is like to try to get acceleration from a public school. I deal with it in many ways. Until middle school, my kids always had a math book in their bag. After doing the school math for review, they do their own math. In middle school, my oldest took 6,7, and 8th grade maths in two years. The he moved onto accelerated high school classes and will have 12 credits of calculus from Georgia Tech before graduating high school through distance learning. They study the same science/social studies as the rest of the kids, but they do the reading at a higher level. I provide some of the resources, and the teachers often have resources for them to use. Reading is done independently, so it isn't much of an issue. My nine year old sometimes reads the class the read aloud book. He also sometimes reads along with what the other kids read because he hasn't read every book in the world, and there are many interesting books below his current reading level that he missed.

I also think there needs to be changes in public education, so I became a certified teacher. I teach at an urban high school and am working with the local university on changing their teacher prep program. We have a five year multimillion dollar grant. We are completely overhauling the program, including bringing college classes into our schools.

Well, I am not sure what any of it has to do with your original post, but I thought you might like fellow moms in the trenches to reply. Good luck.


Thank you, Caroline! I do want to hear from others in my situation (sometimes I feel like I need to), and especially about how you've become involved in the change. I've considered a career after homeschooling that has nothing to do with my college degree (Interior Design) which now sounds so unfulfulling and superficial. Hindsight's 20/20 I guess. I had no idea then that I would fall into homeschooling and become interested in education reform.

I've thought about getting "inside" by becomming a teacher and eventually working up the ladder in order to have more of an effect, but I honestly don't know if I could stomach the politics and beauracracy. All I know is that I'm able to do what I'm doing now - taking care of my own dc, having an impact on those kiddos I come in direct contact with through volunteering and working at the school, and creating awareness about what I see. If I had dh's support, I know I could do more, but it is what is.

Thanks for your post.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I haven't been on the boards in days, but I had to comment on this one. I feel exactly as you do about it being my responsibility to make sure my kids are getting the education they deserve. But after two years now of trying to make sure that happens at school, I've given up and am basically relegating the bulk of their education to afterschooling. I have not had much luck getting a warm reception from the teachers or principal when trying to advocate for my kids. Instead, I get the impression that they see me as annoying and that the less information they give me, the better it is for them. I also began to see them taking out their hostility toward me on my older son in particular. Not in a direct fashion that I can confront, but in more subtle ways. That wasn't worth it to me, so I just have to do what I can at home.

[BabyBre]

I haven't been on the boards in days, but I had to comment on this one. I feel exactly as you do about it being my responsibility to make sure my kids are getting the education they deserve. But after two years now of trying to make sure that happens at school, I've given up and am basically relegating the bulk of their education to afterschooling. I have not had much luck getting a warm reception from the teachers or principal when trying to advocate for my kids. Instead, I get the impression that they see me as annoying and that the less information they give me, the better it is for them. I also began to see them taking out their hostility toward me on my older son in particular. Not in a direct fashion that I can confront, but in more subtle ways. That wasn't worth it to me, so I just have to do what I can at home.

:( I'm so sorry. I thought my dd received that treatment from her teacher in 1st grade. She was on the verge of retirement and didn't exactly embrace my questioning her. She was also the worst we've had yet. I feel very lucky this year and can only hope to be so lucky as the years go on.

[Carol in Cal.]

I haven't been on the boards in days, but I had to comment on this one. I feel exactly as you do about it being my responsibility to make sure my kids are getting the education they deserve. But after two years now of trying to make sure that happens at school, I've given up and am basically relegating the bulk of their education to afterschooling. I have not had much luck getting a warm reception from the teachers or principal when trying to advocate for my kids. Instead, I get the impression that they see me as annoying and that the less information they give me, the better it is for them. I also began to see them taking out their hostility toward me on my older son in particular. Not in a direct fashion that I can confront, but in more subtle ways. That wasn't worth it to me, so I just have to do what I can at home.

That's the kind of thing that made me give the advice I did earlier in this thread. It does not pay to tick off the people who are watching over your child. It shouldn't matter, but often it does.

[BabyBre]

That's the kind of thing that made me give the advice I did earlier in this thread. It does not pay to tick off the people who are watching over your child. It shouldn't matter, but often it does.


I know. That's something I watch carefully for. Thankfully, I'm the one watching over them! No, I'm not there all the time, but I am as vigilant as possible and I teach them to think critically and recognize certain things (in a very indirect way, of course).

[Danestress]

"If you aren't in the restaurant kitchen supervising, how do you know that the food is prepared in a safe, sanitary matter?" Or, "If you don't watch your mechanic and supervise what he is doing, how do you know that you car is being properly repaired?" I actually don't know the answer to those questions. I guess on some level I am trusting - when I think about it, it's an amazing trust because if the car's not fixed properly, my children and I could perish.

I am a big believer in parental involvement. My older son was always in school - never homeschooled, and I always felt like teachers were happy to have volunteers. I did like to observe the class and see how things were going and of course I met with the teachers outside of class from time to time and talked about my child's individual needs and what was going well and what needed improvement (from his end and the teachers').

But if in a basic way, I didn't trust the teacher to do the best she could for all the students, I wouldn't leave my child there.

[Carol in Cal.]

"If you aren't in the restaurant kitchen supervising, how do you know that the food is prepared in a safe, sanitary matter?" Or, "If you don't watch your mechanic and supervise what he is doing, how do you know that you car is being properly repaired?" I actually don't know the answer to those questions. I guess on some level I am trusting - when I think about it, it's an amazing trust because if the car's not fixed properly, my children and I could perish.

I am a big believer in parental involvement. My older son was always in school - never homeschooled, and I always felt like teachers were happy to have volunteers. I did like to observe the class and see how things were going and of course I met with the teachers outside of class from time to time and talked about my child's individual needs and what was going well and what needed improvement (from his end and the teachers').

But if in a basic way, I didn't trust the teacher to do the best she could for all the students, I wouldn't leave my child there.

Well put!

[BabyBre]

"If you aren't in the restaurant kitchen supervising, how do you know that the food is prepared in a safe, sanitary matter?" Or, "If you don't watch your mechanic and supervise what he is doing, how do you know that you car is being properly repaired?" I actually don't know the answer to those questions. I guess on some level I am trusting - when I think about it, it's an amazing trust because if the car's not fixed properly, my children and I could perish.

I am a big believer in parental involvement. My older son was always in school - never homeschooled, and I always felt like teachers were happy to have volunteers. I did like to observe the class and see how things were going and of course I met with the teachers outside of class from time to time and talked about my child's individual needs and what was going well and what needed improvement (from his end and the teachers').

But if in a basic way, I didn't trust the teacher to do the best she could for all the students, I wouldn't leave my child there.


:iagree: My sentiments, exactly.

[tangomoon]

Would offering to do some enrichment activities with the children who aren't being challenged be something that you could do?

I know when I was teaching there were so many things that I wanted to be able to do, but there just wasn't enough time or energy to implement them all, resulting in some hard choices that unfortunately did result in some children not being challenged as much as they could have been in a different environment. Honestly, I probably fell into the category of your children's teachers, making promises at the beginning of the year that I was increasingly unable to keep as the year progressed. Chances are the teachers know that they're not keeping up, and are possibly quite frustrated about it.

[Smithie]

This is a lot, a LOT, of time and energy being expended by you to pacify your husband. Not to mention six hours/day, 180 days/year of your children's precious time. Plus all the afterschooling hours they would not have to put in if they were not spending their days in school.

I wouldn't want to deep-six an otherwise good marriage over school issues, either. But there is no form of volunteer involvement that is going to meet your kids' needs as you perceive them. So it's a choice between hubby's preference and kids' needs - in other words, no choice at all. Either decide that the need is adequately met by afterschooling and let yourself off the hook for the hours of 9-3, or decide to insist on homeschooling and accept the possible consequence.

Your agenda is not consistent with what classroom volunteering is all about. You're a homeschooler. Homeschool.

I'm pretty sure you won't appreciate this post, but honest to Pete, it's like watching somebody drown. The need to point out the direction to the lifeboat is overwhelming.

[BabyBre]

This is a lot, a LOT, of time and energy being expended by you to pacify your husband. Not to mention six hours/day, 180 days/year of your children's precious time. Plus all the afterschooling hours they would not have to put in if they were not spending their days in school.



True.

I wouldn't want to deep-six an otherwise good marriage over school issues, either. But there is no form of volunteer involvement that is going to meet your kids' needs as you perceive them. So it's a choice between hubby's preference and kids' needs - in other words, no choice at all. Either decide that the need is adequately met by afterschooling and let yourself off the hook for the hours of 9-3, or decide to insist on homeschooling and accept the possible consequence.



No.

I'm certainly not going to quit trying to meet their needs. That's my job. (No, it's not the school's job. It's my job as a parent.) There's no reason this has to be an all or nothing arrangement. My involvement in the capacity that I've provided it over the last three years has benefitted them academically in that I've been able to work with and help their teachers help them in many cases, as well as know in what areas the instruction is lacking at school. You'll never convince me it would be better to not have that knowledge. Would it be more efficient to homeschool full-time? Of course, but that option's off the table.

Your agenda is not consistent with what classroom volunteering is all about.

I don't see why my ulterior motive matters if I'm performing the same work.

You're a homeschooler. Homeschool.

I'm pretty sure you won't appreciate this post, but honest to Pete, it's like watching somebody drown. The need to point out the direction to the lifeboat is overwhelming.

It sounds like you "wouldn't want to deep-six an otherwise good marriage over school issues," but you expect me to as that's the "direction to the lifeboat" that you're suggesting.

If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen my request to not be judged on the gravity of my decision to bend to my husband's wishes. My dh is not your dh, and I am not you. If the decision would be so black and white for your family, congratulations. My dh is a phenomenal father, and I place extreme value in the two-parent household. I chose this for my family, and I do resent the notion that I haven't considered ALL my options in agonizing depth. Choosing to act against dh's wishes would have meant being prepared to live seperately. I made the VERY PERSONAL decision to keep my family together. This was the hardest decision I've ever made, and I've got to make the best of the situation for my children's sake.

Dh is happy, dc are happy and doing as well as can be hoped for, and for the time being my head is still above water.

Goodness, can we just stick to the original question?

[Smithie]

What I was actually suggesting was that you give yourself, your kids and the teachers some peace EITHER by deciding that afterschooling meets the need (which it probably does!) OR by choosing what your kids need over what your man wants if the school is truly horrific.

Given your agenda, it's inappropriate for you to be in your child's classroom in a volunteer role. I can't encourage you to pursue that. I DO encourage you to keep your marriage intact by happily afterschooling and finding a productive outlet for your energy and talents during the schoolday.

You are punishing everybody. Stop.

[BabyBre]

What I was actually suggesting was that you give yourself, your kids and the teachers some peace EITHER by deciding that afterschooling meets the need (which it probably does!) OR by choosing what your kids need over what your man wants if the school is truly horrific.


I never said our school was horrific. It's not. In fact, it's one of the best on our side of town.

Given your agenda, it's inappropriate for you to be in your child's classroom in a volunteer role. I can't encourage you to pursue that.

I don't understand. I'm a volunteer. I correct papers and cut and paste. Is it inappropriate that I don't wear earmuffs in the classroom?

I DO encourage you to keep your marriage intact by happily afterschooling and finding a productive outlet for your energy and talents during the schoolday.


Done.


You are punishing everybody. Stop.

You assume a lot. To repeat my last post, dh is happy, dc are happy, and I'm getting by. My teachers are being required to do their best to ensure that my children (and every other child) are getting what they need, and I'm there to help them. What's my crime?

My peace with this issue is not of primary importance, and I've knowingly and willingly sacrificed it. That's my issue, to deal with within myself, and I don't let it punish anyone but me - not dh, whom I could tend to direct frustrations at; not my kids, who are happy and successful; not my teachers and/or administrators, who are delighted to have me in the classrooms and are also my co-workers.

You assume I'm "punishing everybody" with my nasty, resentful attitude? I'm trying to advocate for my kids, why on earth would I do that? Again, this was addressed in an earlier post.

What a thread this has turned out to be!

[Karis]

Sounds like you really want to "police" what the teachers are doing. Are you a Class Mom and the teacher's "right arm" or are you just always "there?"

I think you may inadvertently cause other faculty and staff maybe even students and other parents to regard you and your children "differently" (yes, with the accompanying smile and raised eyesbrows) simply because, while well-intentioned, it comes across as a bit much.

It sounds like you aren't satisfied, want to micro-manage, or really would rather homeschool but without the enormous responsibility and accountability that brings.

There are homeschool academies where the children attend classes two days a week and are home 3. The moms are expected to assist. There's curriculum but also freedom to do more/ expand/ adapt as you like. Is that something you might consider?

If I were the teacher I'd set up a volunteer schedule from Day One. Or I'd put you to work "for real." You need an assignment. (project, something)

[Karis]

My previous post was not as helpful as it SHOULD have been. Well, it's a new day.

Please consider the Homeschool Academy option. It's a hybrid of private school and homeschool. Two days a week, classes, teachers, uniforms, lunch, recess, field trips etc... just like school you even pay tuition and buy books and school supplies but it's two days a week and all of the students who are enrolled are homeschooled.

Where there is a will there is a way. It sounds like you want to be more involved. You have the heart of a homeschooler.

I understand, I was a parent volunteer on steroids (eventually we just brought them home and stopped paying tuition)


Look for academies in your area or ask about this option at a private school many do have a homeschool component. And run the idea past your hubby. Chances are he's never heard of a homeschool academy.

The teachers are dedicated, the familes are committed to their children's ed and the students love attending and being with other homeschoolers.

[BabyBre]

It sounds like you aren't satisfied, want to micro-manage, or really would rather homeschool but without the enormous responsibility and accountability that brings.

There are homeschool academies where the children attend classes two days a week and are home 3. The moms are expected to assist. There's curriculum but also freedom to do more/ expand/ adapt as you like. Is that something you might consider?

If I were the teacher I'd set up a volunteer schedule from Day One. Or I'd put you to work "for real." You need an assignment. (project, something)


Wow.... I think when you feel you have to refrain from using expletives, it's time to remove yourself from the thread.

I'm losing faith in this board. I can see the homeschool community is changing and is becomming less and less a reflection of me, and that's not based on this one thread. I see judgement being passed hastily in this thread, clearly without the posters having read the whole thing. I urge posters to please read the whole thread, or at least the OP's posts as I try to quote when I'm responding to specific comments; however, I won't be visiting this thread again. I've received everything from snide comments to downright insults here!

Thanks so very much to those who gave me honest, constructive, and open-minded input to what I thought was a very simple question!

[burleygirl]

Breann,

I understand your position and it seems those "offending" posters do not understand that you do want to homeschool but your husband doesn't. It's all a matter of how we see our households - Is the husband the head or not and are we submitting to that headship? You as a wife have decided to put your marriage first and still be able to meet the needs of your children. I applaud you for that.

I work full-time but I help and have helped at my child's school as much as my time would allow. I rarely told the teachers about afterschooling because most of the teachers I know think homeschoolers are doing a disservice to their children.

You probably won't read this since you are leaving the thread but don't feel like you have to defend advocating for your child. Let the judgemental comments roll off your back.

[manylilblessings]

I've read the whole thread. :)

I'm a former public school teacher, and now a homeschooler. To answer your original question from the POV of the teacher here goes. Being candid with the teacher is fine, in theory. My response, as the teacher, would be to be gracious. What would go through my mind, however, is that I'd prefer not to have a parent who wishes to "supervise" instead of help. If that parent distrusts or dislikes what I'm doing with her child(ren), then I would welcome them to supplement, or change their child's location to another class, or to home.

I know you can't homeschool. That issue isn't on the table.

Honestly, you're really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think your best bet will be to do the best you can with your children in afterschooling, and just appreciate whatever they are getting in school without a constant cry of "more" coming from you. They will resent you for that because the ps system is set up to overwhelm teachers if they try to make each child reach their potential. The numbers are too staggering. It is virtually impossible to tailor a curriculum to 30 different minds such that they all thrive.

Your child's teacher will be much more receptive to your child's needs if you are a voice of encouragement and support, with very little criticism, even constructive being directed her way.

When I taught, I had excellent students that I knew had more potential than we could meet. I was a gifted student myself, and knew their struggle. I challenged them in ways that didn't involve busywork. I engaged their minds. But, there was more that could have been done if they were my only children. I was frank with their parents. They challenged them more at home; not with workbooks, but with experiences, with books, and with discussions. Those students are now on my Facebook page (they're college graduates) and they're exceptional human beings. They succeeded, and I think it's in large part due to their parents realizing the limitations of the system, being ever so grateful for everything I could do, and picking up the reins at home.

Many of them helped in the classroom. Some made copies. Some graded papers, some baked cookies. None of them ever made me feel like they were watching me. They made encouraging comments. I gave their children extra attention because I was fond of them and their parents.

Attract those bees with honey, and keep making the hive at home! :)