if you've BTDT, how did your boys change between 9th grade and hs graduation?

[ThelmaLou]

I'm looking for encouragement. My oldest ds knows everything (sarcasm, here), and has for a long time. He's 14, and is pretty much a completely contrary boy. He's not disobedient, and he conforms to our external standards, but when he shares his opinions/thoughts/observations about well....anything at all...he shows a total lack of wisdom. He's been getting more and more that way since he was about 10. I have four other boys. My 13 and 11 year olds seem wise beyond their years, but my 14 year old. Oh boy....I don't know where to start. He's also not relational. at. all.

Just curious, then. Did anyone out there have a very difficult 14 year old who turned some major corners by the time he was ready to graduate? I'm guessing the answer is yes, but sometimes it helps to hear some testimonials!!!

[jld]

I don't have any BTDT experience, but I have 4 boys and I'll bet we'll go through the same thing. I remember complaining about a teenage boy similar to your ds a few years ago to an elderly friend, a retired teacher, and she just laughed and said something to the effect of that's just how some boys are and they'll likely outgrow it. I bet she's right -- hang in there!:)

[freerange]

DS went through a phase like this. The more I tried to counter it by arguing against what he was saying, the worse it got. Things improved the more I asked him to explain, justify, prove what he was saying. Now he can make a reasoned argument to support his claims, and doesn't feel the need to prove himself to me so much because he knows I value his opinions.

Pick a subject where he really does know more than you & ask him to teach you, or one of his siblings. Ask his opinion about things. Make him feel valued for what he knows/can do. For example, if you want to see a film together, ask him what he thinks the whole family would enjoy, rather than just what he'd like to see.

In a nutshell, start treating him like the adult you'd like him to become. Model for him the way you'd like him to discuss things with you.

[Brindee]

This sounds soooo like my oldest! He has a little box in his head of what he considers right/okay, and if what you say or do is outside of that little box, then you're just stupid! :glare: I used to try to argue with him to try to get him to see the reality of what was being discussed, but he and I both want to get the last word in, so it would end poorly! :tongue_smilie: So I switched to just making sure he knows I value his opinions, so he's not on the defensive, but his logic is still lacking sometimes! He THINKS he's using good logic, but there are many fallacies employed that he does not even realize. I don't know logic well enough to try to explain, and he really doesn't "hear" that anyway. My dh and I feel we have done our best, and some of what he should already have learned will have to be learned as he goes through life! :) He really is a good young man (age 18), so I hope he is open to learning as he goes!

ETA: My other two are not this way at all!

[Susie-Knits]

Two things popped in my mind when I read your post –

One is that 14 is the hardest age for boys as a psychologist friend has told me. It is the pivotal age where he is no longer a little boy (and may still want the carefree life of a younger boy) and not a quite a man (though he may have a man’s body). Yet people (including mom) are expecting things from him now. It is the age where many guys join gangs and get into “trouble” trying to be a man in inappropriate ways. While not every guy joins a gang or something drastic like that, he may begin to try different behavior with mom and such to find the boundaries. Dad becomes even more important at this time.

Second, I have noticed it is the “age of extremes.” It least that has been true with both of my boys (ages 18 and 15 now). If he has a bent for humor for example, suddenly at 14, he seems to be trying to be extremely humorous with every word that comes out of his mouth - sometimes (many times) inappropriately. If you can keep this “extreme” idea in mind – extend some grace- and know that it will pass as did the terrible twos, then you will make it thru. And at 15 years old, he will not even believe he said or did those things. It was my goal not to do or say things that would be negatively remembered or destroy our relationship. Try to always keep communication lines open. That does not mean that things that need to be addressed are not - just differently.

With both of my fellows, one sensible and pretty mature and the other independent and immature at that age, I found that starting to say less was better and letting dad say something if he felt it was necessary. For me, timing was everything … when would he open to talking and/or guidance. It was a good time (though a hard transition for me) to let him start the conversation or ask my opinion which in my family was alone at bedtime (especially when I was tired and wanting to get to bed but that was often our best times for talking and sharing). I have become very good in asking questions in a non-threatening way instead of correcting or criticizing and it has allowed/prompted my guys to self-think through situations without feeling under the microscope. No one likes being under the microscope - I don't.

Well, those are my thoughts. It is a time of change for both moms and their guys.
Susie

[Brindee]

:D My oldest has been that way since before he was 2! It wasn't a teenage thing for him.

Susie, What you said about one being humorous, and suddenly EVERYTHING he says has to be funny---that's what happened with my ds now 16! :D All those things you said, I agree with, it totally worked well for my ds16 when he was that age! We have a GREAT relationship--he just hugged me before he headed to a friend's house! :D

The oldest and I get along well too. We both love music and are creative thinkers. He is not ashamed of my dh and me, never has been. When other kids were going, "Oh no, there's my mom. HIDE!" ;) (or something like that), my oldest ds was telling his friends how cool he thinks his parents are!

I think it's more of a personality thing with him. He doesn't like saying "I'm sorry", cuz he feels like that means he giving in and the other guy "wins". We have NEVER done anything to cause him to feel that way. We've alway encouraged him in his strengths, and have helped him in things he was weaker in. He just is very linear (is that the right term?), and see's things mostly in black & white. That's what I meant about his little box. If it's not black, then it's white, and therefore wrong! (or vice versa) If it doesn't fit in his little box, it's wrong/stupid!

I'm saying these things, as I feel I probably came across rather harshly in my other post. I don't mean to. We are a very close family. We do as much together as we can, talk, and laugh together a lot, and enjoy being together! I was just identifying with the OP. I'm hoping the OP's son is just going through a phase that he grows out of it soon! :)

[FloridaLisa]

You are in good company. There have been many, many threads on here about the trials of 14-year-old boys. My oldest has hit that stage and moved past it (yes! there is plenty of hope!). I have a 15-yo in the house right now and I've revisisted a few of the same issues, but with a bit less intensity. Here are some things that have helped here:

1) keep your boy busy with *healthy* activities. Not packed every minute, but reasonably full with sports or hobbies or work or volunteer. Hard physical work and/or lots of sweat time is the best! I always notice a difference when my boys can get out their testosterone through basketball practice or yard work, than when they had a few sedentary days. I would make them go out and run if nothing else! I do not encourage (or allow) filling their time with peer-group activities. My boys get some of that through youth group, but too much peer time just exacerbates unwanted behavior.

Sometimes, interest in hobbies flags a bit and you here more "I'm bored." To me, that means my child has likely had too much peer/screen/texting time and too little time pursuing some profitable activities! He's forgotten how many fruitful activities a full life holds! My 15-year-old used to spend hours writing books by hand and then on his computer. I had noticed he hadn't done much of this the last year or two. He was encouraged to start again after an assignment from his (male) lit teacher (see #4 below). Wanting to encourage this, I signed him up for a writing seminar with a visiting author. He loved it and guess what? He's been staying up and getting up early the last two days to write. :001_smile:

2) make sure they are eating healthy and getting enough sleep. This hasn't been a huge problem, but these boys can EAT! I learned early as a wife that a hungry man is a grumpy man. I try to make sure my boys are filling up on whole grains and fruit and cheese and good food.

3) try to be the cheerleader as much as possible and leave the heavy discipline to dad. This is hard when you are homeschooling and have daily issues that must be enforced. When my 6' foot man-boy wasn't responding to me, I had an agreement that we would just call on his 6' 3" dad. Yes, dad was harsher. I cringed sometimes when he laid out a work duty because son had not done x. BUT, I figured, they are men, they speak the same language. And it allowed me to encourage and cheerlead as much as possible.

4) In many socieities, 14 year-old boys have gone through a transition and are working or studying with men. I have prayed for and found some wonderful male teachers and leaders. These influences can be so helpful! We have had a wonderful male literature teacher (takes off work each Friday morning to teach in our co-op), a retired neighbor that hired and trained my oldest, and, just yesterday, another neighbor that offered to teach three of my boys to play banjo. That is completely an answer to a recent prayer of mine. Time with a mature man teaching or working will shape the boys much differently than peer time.

5) keep the bar where it was and continue to help ds aim for it. In work ethic, in academic excellence, in consideration for and of others, in responsbility. This is where most (all?) of our struggles have been. It is hard and tiring to keep encouraging, reminding, requiring that standard. But I know my boys are capable and I don't want them to learn to settle for less. They do get through this phase and it's helpful when that standard hasn't been lowered.


The single biggest paradigm changer for my oldest was a vision. Once he had a vision for what he wanted to do as an adult, he began aiming for it on his own. This did not *fully* click for him until the summer after his junior year. He was not acting like a 14-year-old that whole time, but much of his work was in reponse to *our* vision, our standard. He spent his entire summer overseas on a mission trip that he planned and raised money for. He went away a boy in a man's body and came back a young man in a man's body. Taking notes from that experience, dh and I are planning to plant the seeds for a couple of activities for our other sons, perhaps a summer earlier than junior year.

Lisa

[elegantlion]

You are in good company. There have been many, many threads on here about the trials of 14-year-old boys. My oldest has hit that stage and moved past it (yes! there is plenty of hope!). I have a 15-yo in the house right now and I've revisisted a few of the same issues, but with a bit less intensity. Here are some things that have helped here:



Thank You!! I'm only now getting used to the 12 year old, but so much of your post resonates with me. I'm printing your post to share with dh.

[Susie-Knits]

I'm saying these things, as I feel I probably came across rather harshly in my other post. I don't mean to. We are a very close family. We do as much together as we can, talk, and laugh together a lot, and enjoy being together! I was just identifying with the OP. I'm hoping the OP's son is just going through a phase that he grows out of it soon! :)

Oops sorry Brindee, my post was in response to original poster not yours. I didn't make that clear - my apology. And for what it is worth, I didn't at all think you were harsh in your post. Fourteen is a hard age especially for boys - I didn't realize it before my guys hit that age. They were terrific twos!?

I am glad you have survive the "extreme humor" phase too!
Susie

[mcconnellboys]

Your singing to the choir, sister! My 14 year old HAD to go back into institutionalized school because that was the ONLY NORMAL way to live. He was there bright and early the first few months of his sophomore year, until he realized the closed system wasn't going to open for him, no matter what. By the end of his second year there, he had more criticism than praise for the school. This year, he asked me before Christmas if he could come back home and just homeschool the rest of his senior year.

He's not miserable or anything, LOL. He's just realized what wise people know, "Listen to your Mother". And, "Mom's always right". Now, he's still just 17 - and I'm still considered wrong on many, many things, but I know that these too will change as he continues to find out for himself.

I think it's part of the separation of the child from the parent that they must go through something like this. I continue to hope that they will always be able to find out that we're right without causing harm to themselves.

Regarding being authorities on any/all subjects they encounter - they will just have to learn for themselves through experience, perhaps some embarrassment, and hopefully not to much ill will that wisdom comes more from listening, learning, and endless questioning than from assuming we know and talking on endlessly based on those assumptions....

[Brindee]

I am glad you have survive the "extreme humor" phase too! SusieUmmm, I've almost survived it! It's still winding down at 16! :lol:

I appreciated your comments!

[ThelmaLou]

Thanks for all the encouragement, ladies. I guess some of this will just take plenty of time. Working on my reaction to some of the crazy things he says is the hardest part. I want to be patient and kind, not putting up any walls between us. I love him dearly, but don't like being around him most of the time. I don't want to evidence this in my behavior toward him or the other boys. All of the suggestions you've given have been helpful. I'll keep coming back to the post to read and consider more!

[Lori Di]

My son, who is now moved out and a father(can't wait for payback) was very argumentative and still is!!! He was at our house the other day....I made a simple comment about sugar being in the first 5 ingredients in juice is not very healthy. Well, started with...Where did you hear that ??????????? and more???????????Then he went into the cabinet and pulled out pancake mix....is this healthy? When I said not really he replied with" IT DOESN'T have sugar in the first 5 ingredients"! Then proceeded to get something else out of the pantry before I could even respond!
Point is.......I think it is born in them and I think that if they have that argumentative spirit....LET IT SOAR! ......But .....NOT be disrespectful!! My son is not and has never been disrespectful but he should have been a LAWYER!!!

Hope this helps
Lori

[MommyThrice]

Is it possible to get him into debate? (Here I go with "debate" again...)But, seriously, it has been great for my boys. My 14 yo ds has an argumentative bent, but debate has forced him to make logical arguments AND the ability to see both sides of the issue. The great thing is that with debate it isn't adults teaching him these things, it is his peers. He learns to argue coherently and logically or he loses the round. He still wants to argue with us, but we usually turn it around to point out his logical fallacies and force him to construct his ideas like he would in a debate round. Well, we skip the "Observation 1: Harms" bit.

The other benefit is that it keeps him so busy he doesn't have time to be bored or get into trouble. That's much better than mom & dad piling on the work.

Good luck. Do not give up or lose hope. I truly believe that God has given us these children for a season. Our job is to do our best with them; the results are His.