Placement in Singapore & Miquon Math (x-posted)

[Staceyshoe]

I posted this in the K-8 forum yesterday and thought I would get feedback here too. The general consensus there was to start at the beginning in both programs. I was curious whether I would get the same advice here given ds's problems with boredom from reviewing info he already knows. Here goes:

I just want to get some feedback to see if I am on the right track for placing ds in math. He took the placement tests for Singapore and got 100% on the test for 1A and 64% on the test for 1B. According to the website, he should be placed in level 1B. I do think he would very bored with 1A.

I'm just a little concerned that he hasn't had any exposure to Singapore's way of doing math, and that seems important for continuing in the program. I'm thinking about getting him 1B and maybe getting the blue downloads for grades 1-3 in Mammoth Math if he needs extra practice with the conceptualization. Is this what you recommend? The SM 1B with the MM for extra practice or explanation?

Also, I want to try Miquon with him. He's already had some exposure to some higher math concepts (fractions, multiplication, negative numbers), so I'm thinking about skipping the orange book and going for the red book. Would this be a mistake? (Still can't quite wrap my mind around Miquon without actually seeing it in action.)

[MissKNG]

I agree with starting at the 1a. We are going to start my mathy big girl in 1a in the fall. I actually just received the books in the mail recently. I was also a little "concerned" about the ease of 1a but I do want her to get the foundations of the Singapore way.

I don't know anything about Miquon. We are going to use either Horizons or A beka as a supplement!

[dmmetler]

I'm doing the same thing. While Singapore places my DD in 1B or even 2A (she's right at the 80% on 1B), I figure it's better to review and make sure she understands how SM wants her to approach problems (and she is shaky on math terminology/notation-she's largely figured out the concepts on their own). I'm not expecting to spend much time in 1A/B, but I want her to have that foundation.

One question I do have-if we're just reviewing, do we need all of the books, or would just the textbook (and adding extra, mommy-made problems if needed) suffice? I know that the text/workbook/intensive practice is recommended for mathy kids overall, but there really isn't much in 1A/B that she's not already figured out on her own, and I'm afraid that if I hand her too much printed material that's review, she's going to react to home schooling the same way she's reacted to parochial school K.

[Truscifi]

I'll break from the crowd here and say I would skip to 1b. I started ds in 1a for review when we switched from Saxon1 to SM, and it was a complete waste of time. 1b is still pretty simple stuff, so you should be fine introducing the Singapore method there. I don't know much about Mammoth Math or Miquon, so I can't help you on those. We only supplement with flashcards for drill and mommy-made word problems.

[Colleen in SEVA]

She might be fine to skip 1A, she might not, and unfortunately you won't know until hindsight.

My advice would be to do 1A textbook only, which you probably could get through in a month or so just to be safe (I did this for my mathy G who is years ahead in mathematical concepts but needed to cement a solid foundation before moving on).

No advice on Miquon, I wanted to add it in for my 2 oldest but we never stuck with it so now I'm selling it (PS Anyone want to buy it? ;) ).

[chai]

We did the Miquon/Singapore combo. We started early, so I didn't need to worry about placement. I would suggest that you start with the Miquon orange book because it is there that he will learn about the rods and how to use them. The program really works best if the child knows the colors and numbers associated with the rods. I would NOT require that he finish the whole book though, because some of it will be easy. Let him skip around and do the things that are fun to him.

[Crimson Wife]

Isn't most of the material covered in 1A reviewed in 2A? That's what it appears from the S&S at least.

I just switched my oldest from RS (completed B & C) to Singapore 3A and at least so far she doesn't seem to have any difficulty with the switch. I did have to explain the bar model thingy but she caught on quickly.

[nmoira]

Isn't most of the material covered in 1A reviewed in 2A? That's what it appears from the S&S at least.IIRC, the only thing a child *needs* coming out of 1B is a firm grasp of 10 number bonds and comfort with addition and subtraction within 20. As long as the 10 bonds are second nature, teaching the "Singapore way" can be caught up pretty quickly. Given the results of the placement tests, I'd start the child at 1B.

[Staceyshoe]

No advice on Miquon, I wanted to add it in for my 2 oldest but we never stuck with it so now I'm selling it (PS Anyone want to buy it? ;) ).

I tried to send you a PM, but your box is full.:)

[CourtneyB]

If DS tested into 2B should I start him with 2A then? Even looking at the 2A book the beginning at least is stuff he already knows how to do. But I'm new to the Singapore way (he's 5) so don't know if he'd be missing something important with 2A.

We have the 2B Standards textbook and workbook. I'm just trying to figure out how to get started with him on it. Do most people do all the textbook problems and workbook problems?

[StephanieZ]

If DS tested into 2B should I start him with 2A then? Even looking at the 2A book the beginning at least is stuff he already knows how to do. But I'm new to the Singapore way (he's 5) so don't know if he'd be missing something important with 2A.

We have the 2B Standards textbook and workbook. I'm just trying to figure out how to get started with him on it. Do most people do all the textbook problems and workbook problems?

I don't know about most people. . . But I spend just enough time in the Text to know that my child "gets" it. Usually that means doing a sampling of the simple problems and most of the word problems. We keep going with the text until I feel pretty confident that the child can do the problems, the "Singapore Way" w/o my help. There are usually just a couple word problems in the text, so we'll do all of those. But, there are often quite a few of the simpler problems, and so we rarely do more than 1/3 of those. Some days, the Text is so similar to sth we've done before that we only spend less than a minute with it.

For the workbook, yes I have the child do all of it the vast majority of the time. . . . If it's "easy" then it only should take a minute (or it isn't so easy, is it, lol). . . If it's hard enough to take some time -- whether because the child isn't fast on the relevant "facts" or needs time to think through the method. . . either way, the practice is needed.

The wild card is the "Practice Sets" in the text. Those are sort of extra practice sets. . . I very rarely use them. Only on a very rare occasion when I feel that a child could use a bit of EXTRA practice (i.e., if a problem area arises on a Review). Unless a problem comes up, we omit those sections altogether.

[CourtneyB]

I don't know about most people. . . But I spend just enough time in the Text to know that my child "gets" it. Usually that means doing a sampling of the simple problems and most of the word problems. We keep going with the text until I feel pretty confident that the child can do the problems, the "Singapore Way" w/o my help. There are usually just a couple word problems in the text, so we'll do all of those. But, there are often quite a few of the simpler problems, and so we rarely do more than 1/3 of those. Some days, the Text is so similar to sth we've done before that we only spend less than a minute with it.

For the workbook, yes I have the child do all of it the vast majority of the time. . . . If it's "easy" then it only should take a minute (or it isn't so easy, is it, lol). . . If it's hard enough to take some time -- whether because the child isn't fast on the relevant "facts" or needs time to think through the method. . . either way, the practice is needed.

The wild card is the "Practice Sets" in the text. Those are sort of extra practice sets. . . I very rarely use them. Only on a very rare occasion when I feel that a child could use a bit of EXTRA practice (i.e., if a problem area arises on a Review). Unless a problem comes up, we omit those sections altogether.

Awesome info, thank you very much!!

[Staceyshoe]

This thread has been a huge help to me! I'll plan to start with Miquon Orange and Singapore 1A (textbook only). If we isn't getting it, we can do some workbook stuff. I have a feeling that he'll fly through the textbook, get a feel for how Singapore math works, and be ready for 1B text and workbook soon. Thank you!

[dmmetler]

That's pretty much what we're going to do as well.

Another question-how do you help a child who gains concepts ultra quickly get automaticity on the facts, without being bored out of their mind? This is what really makes me feel like we need to review 1st grade math with my DD, because while she knows the concepts, she's still obviously thinking through the operations even for fairly simple problems. Unlike reading, or even spelling, which are at a level where she just knows and doesn't have to think through it. I'm a little afraid that if I let her go at her pace completely, she'll get to algebra in a year, but still be counting on her fingers!

[Dinsfamily]

This thread has been a huge help to me! I'll plan to start with Miquon Orange and Singapore 1A (textbook only). If we isn't getting it, we can do some workbook stuff. I have a feeling that he'll fly through the textbook, get a feel for how Singapore math works, and be ready for 1B text and workbook soon. Thank you!

That sounds like a great plan. He probably will fly through it. My ds would often ask why it was so easy if it's 1st grade math (he is pretty attached to the numbers on the front). Definitely spend some quality time on number bonds. 1B will be a breeze if he has those down.

[Crimson Wife]

how do you help a child who gains concepts ultra quickly get automaticity on the facts, without being bored out of their mind?

I really like using math games for this. We love the Right Start math card games set but also Sequence Numbers, Equate, Zeus on the Loose, adapting games like Sorry and Chutes & Ladders to practice math facts, etc.

The Multiplication Coloring Tables book is good too.

[Truscifi]

That's pretty much what we're going to do as well.

Another question-how do you help a child who gains concepts ultra quickly get automaticity on the facts, without being bored out of their mind? This is what really makes me feel like we need to review 1st grade math with my DD, because while she knows the concepts, she's still obviously thinking through the operations even for fairly simple problems. Unlike reading, or even spelling, which are at a level where she just knows and doesn't have to think through it. I'm a little afraid that if I let her go at her pace completely, she'll get to algebra in a year, but still be counting on her fingers!

We do 5 minute flashcard drill a few days a week - and we alternate between addition, subtraction, and multiplication. Ds wants to add in division soon too. We keep track of his 'record' and he tries to beat it each time by getting more right in the 5 minutes. He doesn't get bored because it is only 5 minutes and we switch up what operation we're doing.

Also, we only do about half the workbook problems (more of the word problems), but about a third of the way through the workbook I started having him go back and do just one page from the beginning of the book, filling in all the problems he didn't do before, as practice to make sure he isn't forgetting what we've already covered.