What curriculum would you recommend

[dmmetler]

Ok, I want to pick your brains a bit, and just see what you recommend for my DD for next year. She will be 5, but will officially be in 1st grade because she is in K5 at a parochial school now. The school suggested we home school because even with having her in K early, they're having trouble keeping up with her.

1) Loves diving into topics, often focused on one for days, weeks or months. During that time, she can go into deep detail (often getting into adult material). Her current "obsession" is Chinese folk tales and the Lunar calendar-mostly, I think, because she loves dragons. Loves fairy tales, folk tales, fantasy, dinosaurs, rocks, animals.

2) Reads pretty much anything she wants. Her school places her at a 4th grade reading level with post high school vocabulary, but to me it seems more that this is where her interest fades on the texts they give her. Loves the Old testament and has spent a LOT of time reading the NIrV bible. She also really likes poetry.

3) Good at figuring out math concepts, but doesn't have the formal vocabulary and symbols yet. So, if you ask her how many cookies it would take for each of her five stuffed dragons to have two, she can easily answer this, but would have trouble with 5x2=. Her school testing places her at about a 2nd grade level, but it's really spotty.


5) Usually writes with correct spelling and grammar, and can write fairly elaborate sentences and stories, but, again, probably doesn't know WHY it works that way. Writes fairly legible manuscript (we did HWT last summer after the school decided to skip her), and is starting to write in cursive at her request.

6)Enjoying Spanish in school this year. She also enjoys word books in different languages.

7) Loves to dance, sing, play piano. Likes being part of a group, but hates team sports with a passion. Memorizes songs and poems very easily, and loves almost anything set to music.

8) Enjoys workbook-type activities, as long as they're not too easy. Enjoys printed game and puzzle books.

9) Is very high energy, enthusiastic, and declares almost everything to be "the best ever"-and I believe she truly believes it. Conversely, if something seems bad to her, it's really, really bad. She has two settings-super high, and through the basement.

10) Is very excited about home schooling because "I won't have to wait to learn new stuff!", but at the same time is reluctant to leave her friends. The plan now is to let her go ahead and finish K, especially since her school makes a big deal about the kids leaving ECED and moving to the primary grades, and go from there.

Does anyone else have a similar child? If so, what works for you?

[LisaDSB]

I'd be careful choosing a boxed curriculum that is geared to the average child -- it likely won't meet your needs. That said, it's hard to find stuff that is truly wonderful for the gifted learner. Allowing her to have time to follow her various passions is pretty important, IMO. I assume that SM stands for Singapore Math. We use that too for my gifted grade 2 student. He's stronger in the languages than maths, but is on 3A this year.

Based on what you said, a unit studies approach might work well for your daughter, although, again, some of the pre-packaged ones are overly simplistic.

What other subject areas are you looking for guidance on?

[Truscifi]

We went with a fairly structured approach based on WTM guidelines when we started 1st - and ds4.75 (then) was coming to homeschooling out of a Montessori preschool where they had let him go at his own pace. He was ahead in most areas, not so much in others (especially writing). The structure was largely because I am more traditional in my approach to school and it has taken me time and some big failures in my teaching technique to relax a little. Now I look for curricula that let ds go at his own pace and can be either parent/teacher led or done independently for the days he has more stamina than I do.

As PP said, it does seem your dd would enjoy unit studies if she gets that deep into a topic. You can incorporate science and history pretty easily into a unit study of whatever interests her.

I will be happy to give you details about what we did last year and what we are using this year if you want. :001_smile:

[LittleIzumi]

Dd isn't as advanced as yours but the prepackaged stuff is still too simplistic for her. I picked by subject what matches her interest, and we add in informal unit studies, whatever dd is interested in at the time. Right now we're on week 3 of volcanoes and I think it's finally fading... maybe :lol:. Every child is different and so what works for us will probably NOT work for you. For my 4-year-old, I'm using AAS (she's VSL so this is helping her to start to sound out words better), MUS, NOEO Bio I, plus ASL (Signing Time and we'll have to find something else soon as they both know almost every sign on those), French (random stuff, lol), scripture, lots and lots of reading, building with blocks, art, singing, music, etc, plus her self-guided science studies and burning out the batteries in her microscope already. We just do what works. We also like Bill Nye & Schoolhouse Rock, did Mad Libs for grammar yesterday, etc.

[JennW in SoCal]

If you don't mind some advice from an old timer...

Pick something to use for math, grammar and phonics, and handwriting, and just follow her interests with the rest. Until my kids were in 4th grade or so, I only worried about the 3Rs and only spent a small amount of time on them each day. The rest of the time I followed their interests by picking up stacks of books at the library, including science books and fiction or biographies. We did crafts and science projects, spent lots of time at the zoo and local museums, watched many episodes of NOVA. They built huge lego projects, made movies with their stuffed animals, drew pictures and wrote stories. We played games -- Rummy Roots (a card game about Latin and Greek word roots) Mad Libs, and others, put together puzzles. But mostly we read and talked.

I loved Miquon and Singapore for math, but have no recommendations for grammar and phonics as much of what people use these days didn't exist 10 years ago when I had young'uns!

[Jen in PA]

If you don't mind some advice from an old timer...

Pick something to use for math, grammar and phonics, and handwriting, and just follow her interests with the rest. Until my kids were in 4th grade or so, I only worried about the 3Rs and only spent a small amount of time on them each day. The rest of the time I followed their interests by picking up stacks of books at the library, including science books and fiction or biographies. We did crafts and science projects, spent lots of time at the zoo and local museums, watched many episodes of NOVA. They built huge lego projects, made movies with their stuffed animals, drew pictures and wrote stories. We played games -- Rummy Roots (a card game about Latin and Greek word roots) Mad Libs, and others, put together puzzles. But mostly we read and talked.

I loved Miquon and Singapore for math, but have no recommendations for grammar and phonics as much of what people use these days didn't exist 10 years ago when I had young'uns!

:iagree: This is pretty close to what I did with DD and will be doing next year with DS. DD started K (at home) at age 4 1/2, and sped through everything at K level (and much of 1st) within a couple of months. We started "1st" right after she turned 5. We spent that year doing SM 1B, 2A, and 2B with lots of MEP sprinkled in, ETC 5 - 7, and Flashkids Grade 2 Spelling and Grammar. I used the suggestions in the original edition of TWTM for history, science, and writing. I think as long as you are introducing new concepts in math and cementing phonics (which we continued with well after DD was reading fluently), then everything else is gravy for an advanced 5 year-old.

[dmmetler]

Thank you all! I'm very glad I found the WTM book and board.

I'm not thinking a boxed curriculum, only suggestions for various subject areas. There's just so much out there that I think I'm in overload-especially since she can already be a little overwhelming just after school. And a lot of it looks so good-but I'm not sure that I'm not picking MY learning style over hers.

It doesn't help any that my husband really wants to see correlations with standards and structure because he's afraid that we'll find out that she's stuck later if she skips grade level material. Even though I have yet to see anything other than Singapore Math and some of the science project activities labeled for 1st grade that doesn't look like it would frustrate her to no end.

I think part of what is making me concerned about some of the WTM recommendations is that they're so focused on "part to whole" in the grammar stage, and in many ways, my DD seems to learn more like kids are described as learning in the Logic stage than the Grammar stage.

[LisaDSB]

I realize this is a WTM board, but to be honest I don't find the recommendations for the grammar stage very helpful for a gifted child. We enjoy Story of the World (but supplement like crazy). Writing with Ease has been okay -- getting pencil to paper but not necessarily inspiring great things. First Language Lessons (using level 1 for a gifted grade 2 student) has been a waste of money, although I foolishly bought the first level because that fit with his age :bored:. I've compacted it down like crazy because we just don't need the drill. It's often been said that the higher up the IQ scale you go, the less repetition is needed. Unfortunately, the grammar stage is all about drill.

I honestly lean more toward the Charlotte Mason approach. Short lessons that introduce different subject areas; lots of reading from living, interesting books; a history spine; and time for "masterly inactivity", which is basically pursuing educational interests in an unstructured way.

Less is more on the workbook front too, unless you have a child who really loves these.

[LittleIzumi]

I realize this is a WTM board, but to be honest I don't find the recommendations for the grammar stage very helpful for a gifted child. We enjoy Story of the World (but supplement like crazy). Writing with Ease has been okay -- getting pencil to paper but not necessarily inspiring great things. First Language Lessons (using level 1 for a gifted grade 2 student) has been a waste of money, although I foolishly bought the first level because that fit with his age :bored:. I've compacted it down like crazy because we just don't need the drill. It's often been said that the higher up the IQ scale you go, the less repetition is needed. Unfortunately, the grammar stage is all about drill.

I honestly lean more toward the Charlotte Mason approach. Short lessons that introduce different subject areas; lots of reading from living, interesting books; a history spine; and time for "masterly inactivity", which is basically pursuing educational interests in an unstructured way.

Less is more on the workbook front too, unless you have a child who really loves these.


Yep. I tried the OPGTR. Dd literally RAN AWAY :lol:. Same basic reaction to FLL. She hates the whole parts-to-whole, repetition, etc that seem standard in classical ideas for this age. I kept trying to do phonics and as a gifted VSL dd HATES every minute of it, except for a game or two I've found. So I'm back to just reading with her a lot, which is how she learned to read in the first place. MUS is very conceptual and she likes it better than Singapore, but I keep Singapore around to supplement with. We just went through 5 lessons in AAS today so she wouldn't get bored. It's the first word instruction she's even tolerated and I'll just have to take that and run with it, lol. Today we did cooking for fractions. If I could think of cool experiments & projects on my own I would probably unschool, but I don't have the energy for that with working past midnight most nights! I was thinking about Waldorf at one or two grades higher after this year, because dd loves that sort of imaginary stuff. I would just supplement science as I usually do, with the library and experiment kits and microscope work and museums and Bill Nye and then Building Foundations For Scientific Understanding.

[KarenAnne]

Do just exactly what you're doing right now. Any curriculum you attempt to use to impose structure is going to limit, not expand, what your daughter is doing on her own. Eventually math and writing require structured approaches, but you don't need to worry that she will have huge gaps that never get filled.

About math in particular: My daughter learned basic algebra (using Hands-On Equations with manipulatives) and was fooling around with prime numbers and squares (mentally, not written out) before she learned her basic addition facts or could even accurately count out candles for her birthday cake or count money. The most amazing thing I've found out from nine years of homeschooling is that not all kids have to learn in incremental, orderly, sequential form -- EVEN IN MATH. We are so used to thinking they HAVE to learn to add and know their addition facts before they multiply, have to learn fractions before they do algebra, etc. This is not necessarily the case every step of the way for gifted kids, whose powers of abstraction may develop way ahead of their ability to use conventional symbols or have all their basic facts on mental file. You want to feed that part of her brain, too, not just restrict her to a grade-level textbook even if it's "ahead" of her chronological age.

I'm curious to hear what other people say about the friends issue, because in our experience that has been stickier. There aren't a lot of kids around who have shared any of my daughter's passions or been able to talk with her about what she read. She met kids in swimming or in classes at the zoo or in drama, did form several friendships based on playing and board games and such, but she was still as different from her friends as a fish among cats -- in temperament as well as interests. I have not found this aspect of homeschooling easy.

[zaichiki]

I'm curious to hear what other people say about the friends issue, because in our experience that has been stickier. There aren't a lot of kids around who have shared any of my daughter's passions or been able to talk with her about what she read. She met kids in swimming or in classes at the zoo or in drama, did form several friendships based on playing and board games and such, but she was still as different from her friends as a fish among cats -- in temperament as well as interests. I have not found this aspect of homeschooling easy.

Finding kids with similar interests has been a challenge for my kids too. Dd (as girls often do, I'm told) likes to hang around older girls. Most of her friends are about two years older than she is (friends from library book club, group music classes, and other homeschool families). Dd also likes to "mother" little girls, so she will choose to hang out with girls a year or two younger than herself, as well. Recently, she has met two girls her age who are extremely advanced and they have (yay!) hit it off. I'm happier that she has a few friends closer to her own age because I know that girls' life experiences change quite a bit as they near the teen years...looking forward I don't want my dd to try to fit in with older girls at that age. She just doesn't need to grow up that quickly IYKWIM.

[zaichiki]

1) Loves diving into topics, often focused on one for days, weeks or months. During that time, she can go into deep detail (often getting into adult material).
This sounds like my oldest. He was obsessed with history, so we started Sonlight Core 1 when he was 5. It was a great fit. www.sonlight.com (http://www.sonlight.com)

2) Reads pretty much anything she wants.
Sounds like oldest again. Sonlight was a great fit for him, but I didn't purchase a package because the 1st grade readers would have sat, unread, on the shelf. So, I pieced it together and purchased the 2adv readers (now called grade 3-5 I think). He also read lots of library books.

3) Good at figuring out math concepts, but doesn't have the formal vocabulary and symbols yet.
We use Singapore Primary Math. There's a placement test on their website (and on SL's website). Don't forget to use the Intensive Practice books and don't worry about skipping some problems in the regular workbook if they are just too much repetition. (Mine aren't mathy at all, but they are accelerated in math because SM is *great* for teaching the "whys" behind the algorithms.)

5) Usually writes with correct spelling and grammar, and can write fairly elaborate sentences and stories, but, again, probably doesn't know WHY it works that way. Writes fairly legible manuscript (we did HWT last summer after the school decided to skip her), and is starting to write in cursive at her request.
My dd wanted to learn cursive. We started at 5 and it was no problem. Ds wasn't so impressed with it, but ready by 6, so we did it then. Within a few months they were writing everything in cursive.

6)Enjoying Spanish in school this year. She also enjoys word books in different languages.
Cool! Definitely go with that.

7) Loves to dance, sing, play piano. Likes being part of a group, but hates team sports with a passion. Memorizes songs and poems very easily, and loves almost anything set to music.
Ds desperately wanted to play the cello at 5, but none of the teachers in our area would take a child younger than 7. We started Suzuki lessons by default and it has been one of the most wonderful things for my children! I highly recommend Suzuki piano lessons if you can find them.

She has two settings-super high, and through the basement.
:lol: Doesn't it just drive you batty?! My oldest is more like this than my other two. The intensity is very difficult for me.

Does anyone else have a similar child? If so, what works for you?
Check out the curricula noted in various signatures here in the AL board. Have fun!

[MissKNG]

Check out the curricula noted in various signatures here in the AL board. Have fun!

I also like to check out blogs of folks who have kiddos about the same age/grade level as mine.

[dmmetler]

I like the looks of the Sonlight Core 1/2, especially with the "Advanced" readers, which seem to be the kind of books she enjoys reading (she's read several from their list already), so I'm thinking maybe Sonlight history (and get the reading list from the library), Singapore math, and whatever science she wants to study? I'm not at all worried about adding hands-on stuff to Sonlight, because my experience is that once she reads something, she'll find ways to make it happen and she'll drive it, and we'll see what happens. I think she could learn a lot from their book list and materials on her own.

Would we need a separate Language arts/grammar program with that? Or is the above enough for a 5 yr old?

[zaichiki]

I'm not at all worried about adding hands-on stuff to Sonlight, because my experience is that once she reads something, she'll find ways to make it happen and she'll drive it, and we'll see what happens.

This is where we add in the SoTW Activity books for the activity ideas, additional reading suggestions, maps, and coloring pages. Peacehillpress has the pdf version so you can just print out whatever individual pages you need. Awesome resource! Love WTM!

[OhElizabeth]

Well, I just have a couple tips. One, I'd bring back up that curriculum doesn't usually end up fitting certain kids. If you get say SL 1+2 (which we did for a while, ages ago, btw), it may or may not fit her. It may be the idea fits her but you end up bucking the schedule. That's how it was with us. Dd just ABHORED the schedule of SL, no matter how much I flexed it. The resources are really good. CHOW is great (and its workbook, btw). It's just doing it that way didn't work for us. It's taken me a long time, 6 years actually, to finally see that I should just have a book we're using at the time, go in-depth as we want into something, then move onto the next book. Do that for history, do that for science.

And that leads me to my next little tip. For science, http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_SUPERARTICLE&node_id=180&use_sec=false&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=a5a4e103-096f-45db-8cc3-10866e4005a0 the books here are wonderful.

You're going to find your own way to do things, your own mix that is successful. It sounds like you're doing a great job! Just have fun with it. You don't have to totally skip some of the popular materials around here (WWE, FLL, etc.), but you do have to flex them a LOT. That's just normal, and I don't see why it should be surprising. Some people do FLL in a very short amount of time with a 5 yo, and some people spread it out over two years with 6 and 7 yo's. That's just how it is. It still has a very nice presentation of the basics.

[dmmetler]

You don't have to worry about me trying to follow curriculum too closely. I taught in public schools for 8 years before having my DD, and know good and well that while teaching guides usually are pretty useful, pacing charts tend to be good only to start fires ;). The only early subject that's at all additive is mathematics, and even there, there's a lot of flexibility.



I'm pretty comfortable with letting her lead the way and just providing materials this year and see what happens. If she hadn't been accelerated, she'd start K this year, and even then, it's pretty common to wait until 6 to start.

[RobinF]

I don't know that it is classical at all in the approach, but I have several friends online that have used and love www.movingbeyondthepage.com (http://www.movingbeyondthepage.com) and I think it would work well for a gifted child because you could pick the level that fits your child. Also they do a unit type approach.

We love the book list from SL and also from Winterpromis. I don't know how the Animals and their World would fit your child but we have had most of those books for 5 years (used our first year of homeschooling) and they are ones my boys still pick up and read.

[Karin]

If you don't mind some advice from an old timer...

Pick something to use for math, grammar and phonics, and handwriting, and just follow her interests with the rest. Until my kids were in 4th grade or so, I only worried about the 3Rs and only spent a small amount of time on them each day. The rest of the time I followed their interests by picking up stacks of books at the library, including science books and fiction or biographies. We did crafts and science projects, spent lots of time at the zoo and local museums, watched many episodes of NOVA. They built huge lego projects, made movies with their stuffed animals, drew pictures and wrote stories. We played games -- Rummy Roots (a card game about Latin and Greek word roots) Mad Libs, and others, put together puzzles. But mostly we read and talked.

I loved Miquon and Singapore for math, but have no recommendations for grammar and phonics as much of what people use these days didn't exist 10 years ago when I had young'uns!


:iagree: We did the 3 Rs for school when my dc were that age & then followed interests.
I love Singapore Math as well. Miquon wasn't such a big hit with the one dc we tried it with, though. Other good things are MEP for math supplemented with fun reads such as Murderous Maths. Singapore Math starts rather easy, but she could zip through them starting with 1A until you hit where she needs to be.

If she can already read, do you need phonics? For grammar, I'd recommend First Language Lessons if she's an auditory learner along with something like Grammar Songs. If she is visual, I'm not sure what to suggest at that age, but don't start at her reading level because they're not the same. I found written grammar dragged us down in gr 1 for the two I had at home for gr 1 (my eldest was in ps for K-2).

For handwriting, that will depend. My older two did fine with Zaner Bloser, but my ds really needed Handwriting Without Tears. The cursive isn't pretty when you get there, but he did the whole thing at the beginning with the music, shapes, playdough, writing, etc. He's a lefty and he was behind in his fine motor skills and benefited for both those reasons.

However, we got to more of a regular schedule starting in gr 3 rather than gr 4, but that's an individual decision. DS is on a full regular schedule this year in gr 4 but still hasn't started German (he started Latin this year.)

[Karin]

I'm not sure that I'm not picking MY learning style over hers.
.

I think part of what is making me concerned about some of the WTM recommendations is that they're so focused on "part to whole" in the grammar stage, and in many ways, my DD seems to learn more like kids are described as learning in the Logic stage than the Grammar stage.

My dc were the same way, so I modified WTM to suit. There was no way my dd's were in the rote learning stage at the rote ages. My ds was at the beginning of the WTM rote stage but quickly outgrew it.

Well, I just have a couple tips. One, I'd bring back up that curriculum doesn't usually end up fitting certain kids.
...
You're going to find your own way to do things, your own mix that is successful. It sounds like you're doing a great job! Just have fun with it. You don't have to totally skip some of the popular materials around here (WWE, FLL, etc.), but you do have to flex them a LOT. That's just normal, and I don't see why it should be surprising. Some people do FLL in a very short amount of time with a 5 yo, and some people spread it out over two years with 6 and 7 yo's. That's just how it is. It still has a very nice presentation of the basics.

I agree totally with this.

[LibraryLover]

yes. Whe are not Charlotte Mason people, but this is how I handled it. If they can already read well at 4 or 5, a lot of the boxed stuff seems worhtless. FLL was a joke for one of my children. She sighed and seemed in pain, so we don't bother. She already knew most of that stuff just for her keen powers of observation.

But I have decided this is the easy child...the child who takes you on an adventure. They love everything and want to to everything and it's painless and fun!

I realize this is a WTM board, but to be honest I don't find the recommendations for the grammar stage very helpful for a gifted child. We enjoy Story of the World (but supplement like crazy). Writing with Ease has been okay -- getting pencil to paper but not necessarily inspiring great things. First Language Lessons (using level 1 for a gifted grade 2 student) has been a waste of money, although I foolishly bought the first level because that fit with his age :bored:. I've compacted it down like crazy because we just don't need the drill. It's often been said that the higher up the IQ scale you go, the less repetition is needed. Unfortunately, the grammar stage is all about drill.

I honestly lean more toward the Charlotte Mason approach. Short lessons that introduce different subject areas; lots of reading from living, interesting books; a history spine; and time for "masterly inactivity", which is basically pursuing educational interests in an unstructured way.

Less is more on the workbook front too, unless you have a child who really loves these.

[Karin]

yes. Whe are not Charlotte Mason people, but this is how I handled it. If they can already read well at 4 or 5, a lot of the boxed stuff seems worhtless. FLL was a joke for one of my children. !

We're not Charlotte Mason people, either. FLL isn't bad based in IQ so much as what dc enjoy and are ready for when you use it. My ds found it fun, although he didn't need all the repetition. My dd's would have hated it.

[aly9712]

I thought I was the only one who thought the repetition was a bit much in FLL....It only takes her a day or two to memorize the parts of speech definitions and poems, so some of it does seem like waste. However I can see it's value with other kids who need the repetition. With WWE, we enjoy the narration and writing exercises (even though she could write a lot more)...we use the narrations honesty, to find new books to read. But we're going to finish them both since I've already bought them :)

[treestarfae]

http://www.prufrock.com/

[littleWMN]

I would just supply a math curriculum and do unit studies for the rest. It sounds like she's already reading well. You may or may not want to start with grammar (we start later)/

I have not used this but MOving Beyond the Page sounds like a perfect fit for your daughter. Maybe just one or two units she is interested in would get you through some of the year and for the other subjects she is interested in you could utilize the library/museums/etc.

Good luck! She sounds like a fun little girl.